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I vote Tzeentch. Any conflict engaged with that monster is a swift invitation to doom - He knows every possible move before his opponent does and has 10^10^10^10^10^10...^10... plans to utilize at any point of the galaxy - all of which have been coiling and building for almost all eternity. I mean really, the only reason why Tzeentch would be in open conflict in the first place is if he wanted to, and it'd likely be for some other purpose (like having his brother's get a beatdown, Mork accidentally stabbing Gork, or the Nightbringer going toe to toe with the Void Dragon.)

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

Still. A God. Skarbrand shouldn't even have gotten close. Khorne is still an emo-kid who cuts his wrists to get the attention of his betters. (and by betters, I mean everyone. Chaos is a bunch of childish little babies with a chip on their shoulder because the Emperor stole their spotlight.)

Someone has their panties in a bunch.

Perhaps we shouldn't bring up the fact that the Emperor got pimp-slapped and almost choked out by non-deity Ork then

The 'Gods' of this setting aren't GODS gods. They are uber-powerful, but not omnipotent and omniscient (even if BiG E's PR department claims he is )

It's theoretically possible for a non-god to kill a God. Killing shards of a God is considered all in a day's work, if Ward is writing the fluff.

Remember also that all Daemons are actually formed from part of the God they follow, and they aren't created equal.

ummm... Gork an mork. Nuff said

If you hit Gork (or possibly Mork) it would simply make him stronger, even if it was a godly blow. Any other god would be weakened, even if only slightly, because Khorne is strengthened by death rather than war, and IIRC Khaine wasn't strengthened by war, but more by the anger of the Eldar. The reason he was defeated was because the Eldar were despairing instead of being angry, and that emotion fed She Who Thirsts.

Quotes from a RT ork source book:

Gork struggled towards awareness. He sensed other Powers in the warp trying to interfere. He blocked a suble tendril from Slaanesh, ignored a baleful warning from the Emperor, discounted the triumphant cry of Khorne...Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened his eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries.

Winner...Gork and Mork!

The Nightbringer. He is the corporeal end of the universe.

/thread

 Sigvatr wrote:
The Nightbringer. He is the corporeal end of the universe.

/thread

Pfft. Universes. Like they matter to ork gods.

Gork holds the Khorne god in a full nelson. Mork stabs him repeatedly in the stomach until he i split into two. Then they both go about thier day whatever they dam well please....Thats how I see it. You don't get one without the other.

Nah, more like they beat him within an inch of his life and then leave and wait for him to recover.

They won't ever kill him because that would ruin a good fight.

 Ascalam wrote:
Perhaps we shouldn't bring up the fact that the Emperor got pimp-slapped and almost choked out by non-deity Ork then

Indeed we shouldn't, because that's not what happened.

Luna Wolves Index Astartes:


'On the Ork-infested planet of Gorro, Horus repaid the debt by hacking the arm from a huge, frenzied Greenskin warlord as it struggled to choke the Emperor's life out of him.'

 Ascalam wrote:

Luna Wolves Index Astartes:


'On the Ork-infested planet of Gorro, Horus repaid the debt by hacking the arm from a huge, frenzied Greenskin warlord as it struggled to choke the Emperor's life out of him.

Struggled, eh? Apparently, it;s elaborated more on in one of the newer works. Something about the Emperor being separated from everyone else, killing lots of Orks single-handedly and eventually getting hit by a plasma blast (these Orks being very good with plasma technology apparently) and the Ork Warboss taking advantage of this. Considering the Orks apparently had boyz that were often larger than Dreadnoughts, the number of Orks and the corresponding Waaagh! field would have been phenomenal.

 Shredder wrote:
Quotes from a RT ork source book:

Gork struggled towards awareness. He sensed other Powers in the warp trying to interfere. He blocked a suble tendril from Slaanesh, ignored a baleful warning from the Emperor, discounted the triumphant cry of Khorne...Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened his eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries.

Winner...Gork and Mork!

Seems legit!!!

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:

Luna Wolves Index Astartes:


'On the Ork-infested planet of Gorro, Horus repaid the debt by hacking the arm from a huge, frenzied Greenskin warlord as it struggled to choke the Emperor's life out of him.

Struggled, eh? Apparently, it;s elaborated more on in one of the newer works. Something about the Emperor being separated from everyone else, killing lots of Orks single-handedly and eventually getting hit by a plasma blast (these Orks being very good with plasma technology apparently) and the Ork Warboss taking advantage of this. Considering the Orks apparently had boyz that were often larger than Dreadnoughts, the number of Orks and the corresponding Waaagh! field would have been phenomenal.

I think you might be mixing your battles up there.

Horus gets downed by a Plasma blast, and Big E stands over him to defend him, but IIRC that was a different fight.

The fact that the Emperor (supposedly a god) got throat-grabbed and put in dire straignts by a mortal at all, given that he supposedly shoots lightning from his eyes and fireballs from his arse, shows he's not all that..godwise.

If he was really all that godly-uber the Ork would have disintegrated just by being in contact with him, if all the IOM fluff about E can be taken seriously. Not that anyone should really take any 40K stuff that seriously...

Gork and Mork, without question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
The fact that the Emperor (supposedly a god) got throat-grabbed and put in dire straignts by a mortal at all, given that he supposedly shoots lightning from his eyes and fireballs from his arse, shows he's not all that..godwise.

He was mortally wounded only because he was holding back to try to convince Horus to stop the rebellion, IIRC. IF he hadn't been holding back, he could have killed Horus in one hit. After he was injured, that's exactly what he did.

 Melissia wrote:
Gork and Mork, without question.

He was mortally wounded only because he was holding back to try to convince Horus to stop the rebellion, IIRC. IF he hadn't been holding back, he could have killed Horus in one hit. After he was injured, that's exactly what he did.

Still makes him a spineless, indecisive and emotional failure in my eyes. Hardly godlike.

But I suppose this thread is about powerlevels and not strength of character so….

Actually that shows that he actually HAS a spine (he is willing to put his life on the line in order to turn his son back to his side), is decisive (he does exactly that), and actually has emotions other than "GRR I HATE YOU" (he still loves his son and wants the best for him, even after all that's happened).

But I guess you would call parental love "emotional failure" or something.

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

I guess you could also say he was more arrogant than he was weak.

But I still think that when the fate of the entire human race is at stake someone of his stature and power would be able to assess the situation more clearly and not latch on to silly emotional attachments. The guy has literally seen billions of people die during his life time and has always fought to preserve mankind as a whole.

Putting it all at risk because he liked one single person so much just doesn't seem very strongwilled to me.

 Melissia wrote:
Gork and Mork, without question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
The fact that the Emperor (supposedly a god) got throat-grabbed and put in dire straignts by a mortal at all, given that he supposedly shoots lightning from his eyes and fireballs from his arse, shows he's not all that..godwise.

He was mortally wounded only because he was holding back to try to convince Horus to stop the rebellion, IIRC. IF he hadn't been holding back, he could have killed Horus in one hit. After he was injured, that's exactly what he did.

Erm... was i talking about Horus? Not that I recall.

I was talking about him being put in a chokehold on Gorro by an ork Warboss.

If you are going to quote me, please make sure i'm actually talking about the same thing you are.


On the Horus / Emperor battle it depends on which account you read. The more recent ones have been leaning towards the auto-win. The older ones had it as being a rough fight all round, which is a lot less Fanspanky to me. IIRC the original story had the Emperor take a desperate gamble with the last of his life force to kill Horus as he was dying.

If he was so unwilling to kill Horus and so much more powerful than him in every way, why didn't he just freeze him in time, or paralyse him. Why didn't he just plain ignore Horus's attemptedf ass-kicking instead of being mortally wounded by it.

Popenfresh wrote:
I guess you could also say he was more arrogant than he was weak.

On that, I certainly agree.

Keep in mind that there is no such thing as an omnipotent, omniscient god in the 40k universe, as far as we know. The Emperor himself was strong enough to threaten the destruction of the dark gods with the psychic lance that killed Horus, and they really aren't anything more than a collection of emotions given sentience.

But I still vote for Gork and Mork because are pretty much described as invulnerable to harm.

The fact that blackfang put the big E in a sleeper hold is proof that gork and more > all.

However in the emperors defence gargal black fang is described as the second biggest ork in history (the beast is #1).
He was supposed to have been 3 times bigger then ghazgkull Thraka. And yes the emp was all on his lonesome in hand to hand combat with dreadnought sized nobs and black fang and it was only once his concentration / phsycic barrier / armor was chinked (what ever you want to go with) that he was pinned. Which ofcourse led to Horus (who had a knack for killing big orks.. *cough* decapitated the beast *cough*) chopping off his arms and insert happy ending here.

 Ascalam wrote:
The fact that the Emperor (supposedly a god) got throat-grabbed and put in dire straignts by a mortal at all, given that he supposedly shoots lightning from his eyes and fireballs from his arse, shows he's not all that..godwise.

Point out where the Ork actually put the Emperor in any real danger.

I can struggle while trying to push a mountain. That doesn't mean I bested it.

Show me where in the fluff it says that E just stood there, letting the Ork choke him, to no effect. I must have missed that bit

I said he grabbed him and had him in dire straits (which you are in if someone is choking you during a fight).

He was throttling the Emperor. You don't generally get throttled if you are cakewalking the oppositon. Generally you are on the losing side of the fight, as a properly applied choking can put you down hard in seconds, and it's not a position someone winning the fight would find themselves in. Even if you were winning the fight, being choked can ruin your day quite handily.

The fact that Horus had to step up to help, rather than the Emperor just teleporting out of the choke or disintegrating the ork is telling, but no sense trying to get an IOM fanboy to accept that the Emperor was mortal, and could actually take a few hits without it being him allowing them to beat him down, is there

It's not like the Emperor made a habit of just standing there and letting the enemy try to kill him un-opposed, like mountain example.

You can struggle while pushing a big-ass rock up a hill, with a fair or better chance of it rolling back and hurting you Doesn't mean you can't best it

All the quote says is that the Ork struggled to choke the Emperor, and Horus cut his head off.

IOM fanboy? I'm sure my Magnus the Red avatar tipped you off on that. I'm afraid I'm just someone who uses sense and reason when posting and actually looks at what the writing says.

And you're arguing from ignorance. Recent evidence made it clear that the Emperor was weary from bulldozing through thousands of Orks (Many of their number the size of a dreadnought) and taking plasma to the face (Said plasma weapons are more powerful than anything seen before or since in terms of plasma weaponry, which would seem to put their yield above a Deathstrike Missile, incredibly), which only momentarily stunned him. The Warlord took it upon himself to use that distraction to try to choke the Emperor, and buckled his armour, but that's all it managed before Horus cut its arms off. Speculating on any further damange or how the Emperor would respond is baseless.

*shrug*

You take your take on the event, and i'll take mine.

If we interpret them differently, then there's not much point arguing it out, especially over something as whacked as GW fluff.

Apologies if i get a little heated. I just get a bit tired of the Emperor-uber-alles fluff, and people claiming that he was un-fething-hurtable unless he willed it to be so.

Lot of IOM-centric fluff-lawyers locally, and they are way to fond of emphasising the bat-crap crazy uber SM/Big E fluff, and downplaying or flat denying the rest.

I personally think the Emperor physically was more or less a Primarch. It was in the Warp where he could truly be "godlike".

I subscribe to that interpretation too.

Bad-ass superhuman, but still essentially flesh and blood.

Most of the folks i wind up bringing up the healing-knight-titans by-touch or single-handedly owning whole waaaaghs fluff.

I love 40K, but the one thing that really riles me (and it's been getting worse the last decade) is the share of awesome. IOM (mainly SM and the Emperor) gets almost all of it, while everyone else is punching bags or armour paint.

Apologies again for going off on you. I've been at a tournament all day where i was the only Xeno player, and they all insist on talking fluff all game while we play.

My original army is Necrons, lol.

I point out that when the Emperor fought a more "legit" god that he couldn't combat on the spiritual or mental plane (The Void Dragon), he struggled much more than he does against purely Warp beings.

Well... I'm moving into Slaanesh's place until it's all blown over.