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Fine then, take 900. Point still stands. We can perfectly just assume that Lysander made Captain at ~50-80, and has been gone for ~900 years. That'd make him reappear a thousand years later, just in time to make that remark about Dante and still give him a hundred years to rise to that position.*

And that's assuming he did not mean it as a joke, which remains a possibility. As I said, there does not have to be a contradiction unless you make it so by filling the gaps with assumptions that could just as well say something else.

*: Obviously, it is difficult to make statements about when a Space Marine would get promoted. I have always been under the perception that Astartes would rise in rank whenever there's an open slot, at which point the most likely candidate it picked - which is usually, but not always the next guy in line (such as the Captain of the 2nd Company joining the 1st when the former First Captain makes Chapter Master ... or is killed in battle). Casualties as well as tradition would heavily influence these estimates.

[edit] I have always looked for ways and excuses to explain how the stuff from GW would work (apart from a very few things that just are "too much" even for me, this is actually quite fun), so this probably explains why I'm defending this theory this ardently.
I'll even concede that a contradiction might seem more likely. It's just not that it is the only logical conclusion. And since I can still make it work, I have chosen to do so.

Ok, I stand corrected, to an extent. Here's the exact quote, page 12 of the current BA codex:

"...the current commander of the chapter, Dante, is known to have lived for 1,100 years, and is almost certainly far older."

From memory this is largely if not entirely unchanged from way back to the 2nd ed codex Angels of Death.
It's noted on that same page that the Blood Angels live exceptionally long even for Space Marines, with 1,000 years noted as "not uncommon".

He's still WAY behind Vect, Eldrad and the Necrons though, of course.

...oh, and there's another point made elsewhere in the Codex about the 1st Company veterans having decades if not centuries of experience... and Ragnar Blackmane got promoted to Wolf Lord straight from being a Blood Claw. So there's precedent for relatively quick rising in the ranks.

Regarding Space Marine life span but in the Horus Heresy books, doesnt Loken say that theoretically Space Marines are immortal? I can't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of they did not die of old age but that was as much due to constant war as anything else.

Nevie wrote:
Regarding Space Marine life span but in the Horus Heresy books, doesnt Loken say that theoretically Space Marines are immortal? I can't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of they did not die of old age but that was as much due to constant war as anything else.

At the time of the Horus Heresy aren't the Marines really new, so even if their 'natural' lifespan is normally 5-600 years, it wouldn't be known yet.


Anyway, I would say the Tyranid Hive Fleet would likely be the oldest entity in the game (considering it'd need to have been well on it's way here by the time of the fall, and likely devouring things happily when this universe was a primordial soup), assuming what I've read is accurate it'll be millions of years old.

Then probably the Necrons. Pretty much all of them are ancient.

Theeen Asdrubael Vect, having been old at the time of the Fall. ( potentially as old as vect, again, already old and involved in the higher echelons of Commoran society when he became a Haemonculi, and the codex specifically states several thousand years old )

Super Ready wrote:Ok, I stand corrected, to an extent. Here's the exact quote, page 12 of the current BA codex:
"...the current commander of the chapter, Dante, is known to have lived for 1,100 years, and is almost certainly far older."

Huh, you are correct. Now, the "almost certainly" also does leave soom room to wiggle ... but I have to admit it still reeks of a contradiction now.
Thanks for pointing that out and providing the exact quote + source. Always better to debate these things when we have citations.

Super Ready wrote:From memory this is largely if not entirely unchanged from way back to the 2nd ed codex Angels of Death.

I have provided that quote from the C:AoD and others earlier, but here it is again (with others I just dug up) to show why the 5E 'dex seems surprisingly "out of line" with the rest:

"One of the peculiarities of the Flaw is that it has vastly increased the lifespan of those who survive, so it is not uncommon for Blood Angels to live for a thousand years. Indeed, the current Commander of the Chapter, has lived for nearly 1,100 years."
- 2E C:AoD

"Indeed, the current Commander of the Chapter, Dante, was born nearly 1.100 years ago."
- 4E C:BA, as currently hosted on GW's website

"For eleven hundred years, I have fought, and I have seen the darkness in our galaxy. [...]"
- quote from the same PDF

"Commander Dante is said to be 1100 standard Terran years of age and his vast service record fills entire libraries with material."
- 6E Main Rulebook

Ovion wrote:At the time of the Horus Heresy aren't the Marines really new, so even if their 'natural' lifespan is normally 5-600 years, it wouldn't be known yet.

That, and author interpretations differ from source to source with a certain regularity in this franchise anyways. :/ I believe FFG's RPG still treats them as actually immortal, or at least it uses the term.

5-600 years sounds a bit reaching, though, at least if we would go by the 6E rulebook fluff. I am assuming an average human lifespan of perhaps a hundred years at best (it is probably far lower due to stuff like heavy industrial pollution or a pre-industrial lifestyle, depending on what gakky planet you'd live on), which would mean 200-300 as a standard for Astartes. Just a rough guesstimate, obviously, that ultimately stands and falls with how we believe the "average human being" on the "average Imperial world" in the 41st millennium lives.

It is probably quite intended by GW to shy away from absolute numbers these days and instead prefer vague terms, intentionally allowing for a wider range of speculation and interpretation. I noticed a shift away from "hard facts" over the past few editions. For shame, I might add.

On another note, what about the youngest special character?

I've worked out High Marshal Helbrect to be around 180 years old

in the BT codex
M41.833 as a neophyte in vinculus crusade (P.19)

M41.989 made chapter master (P.44)

M41.999 3rd war for armageddon (P.20)

assuming 10 years of being a neophyte puts his current age as 176 which seems very young for a chapter master

anyone else think of a young SC?

 macc92 wrote:
On another note, what about the youngest special character?

I've worked out High Marshal Helbrect to be around 180 years old which seems very young for a chapter master

in the BT codex
M41.833 as a neophyte in vinculus crusade (P.19)

M41.989 made chapter master (P.44)

M41.999 3rd war for armageddon (P.20)

assuming 10 years of being a neophyte puts his current age as 176 which seems very young for a chapter master

anyone else think of a young SC?

I would imagine, something like the Tau Commander Shadowsun, as she is likely under 40 years old. (If not under 30), being Tau generally don't live more than 40-50 years anyway.

macc92 wrote:assuming 10 years of being a neophyte puts his current age as 176 which seems very young for a chapter master

I dunno, it seems to fit to my current (post 6E rulebook) interpretation regarding their biology, as well as to the Astartes in general being quick to promote if they think someone has talent (as evidenced by, for example, the promotion of Ragnar Blackmane). I just think a lot of fans had somewhat inflated thoughts regarding their longevity, with some even thinking they'd be immortal. Naturally, a lifespan of "just" (on average) 200-300 years would be a stark contrast to such a perception.

Pedro Kantor was 250 when he became Chapter Master of the Crimson Fists, tho, and is currently nearly 350 years old.
Vulkan He'stan was named Forgefather of the Salamanders at the age of 100.
Kaldor Draigo became Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights at the age of ~130.
- sources: 5E Codices Space Marines and Grey Knights

Some of the Imperial Guard characters must qualify... even with an extended lifespan, we're not talking grandpa's being pushed onto the field on their zimmers, so I suspect they'd be around the 40 or 50 mark at most.
People like Pask, Bastille, or Marbo. Yarrick, Straken and Creed are obviously old dogs, though. :p

Yeah. On average, IG characters are probably the youngest heroes, next to Tau - simply because Guardsmen are usually not considered important enough to receive the life-prolonging drug treatments that are granted to some other Imperials from more "elite" organisations such as the Inquisition and the Sororitas. Many officers in the IG will be nobles, but I suppose that due to their duties (leading them across the Imperium with little opportunity to travel alone) and station, few of them would be able to schedule an appointment with the Magos Biologis (or whoever does that sort of stuff), even where their family would have the funds and connections.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to gauge the exact age of the various special characters, as the IG Codex is less detailed in this regard than the Marine one.
Marbo is obviously = Rambo, so I'd at least suspect the character in the game would be as old as the character in the movies.
Straken is said to have survived "decades of war".
Pask's victories are only described as "over the decades" as well.

Cassius is almost as old as the Dreadnoughts in the Ultramarine's armories, and much older than Calgar.

Dante is 1500+ years old.

Logan Grimnar is 700+ Years old.

Eldrad (though dead), is pretty freaking old.

The Dark Eldar have been around since the Fall.

Ghazkgull is pretty old, especially by Ork standards.

Yarrick is probably the oldest normal-human alive.

Sorry guys gotta steal your thunder but a salamander was found in the trilogy written by nick kyme who was at istvaan 5 and was alive 10 000 years later. he did die but just saying he was a loyal space marine, he simply died because he didnt eat or drink for 10k years... space marines are immortal.