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madtankbloke wrote:
The Imperial Fists, as the First Legion, The Emperors bodyguards do not adhere to the codex astartes, girlyman can, but what did he do during the heresy? While The Imperial fists don't advertise the fact that there ship bound forces far far exceed the 1000 marines joke, neither will they deny it, and scattered as they are no-one even knows that there are around 20,000 of them.
Its the same deal as the black templars, because the imperial fists believe that while the codex astartes is a good thing for fast reaction forces and so forth, its not enough for a force that has to defend Terra at all costs. they spilt their blood to hold back Horus' forces, they were the ones who held the imperial palace against the tide of chaos, and if the ultra marines and the corrupt venal lords of terra don't like it? well, they can take a short drop followed by a sudden stop. The Imperial Fists will be only so happy to oblige.

I actually find the idea of this hillarious and awsome. They tell the UMs "fine we will do it your way" and simply do the same tthing the Black Templars do but sense organizations such as the Inquisiton like the IF (for their service to the Emperor like defending Terra) they just claim that the IF are "welll within limits"

I may hijack this

Deathwatch comes to mind, I wouldn't be one bit surprised that that's where both the Ultras and the IF are hiding several thousand Space Marines there since they have too many planets to be just 1000.

I like to interpret the over the top stuff that Draigo does as just a figment of his own mind being warped by Tzeentch. Tzeentch is manipulating his mind and making him hallucinate that he is this godlike being so that one day he can snap Draigo out of it and show him that he has been nothing more than a pawn of Chaos for untold number of years. The knowledge that none of the great deeds he did in the name of the Emperor were real would drive him to insanity and self-destructive loathing.

That's a good one. I believe there was a story similar to that printed in the old anthology, Let The Galaxy Burn.

Yeah or I can touch a common berserk button, telling people he is a Lost Primarch.

Dammit, I'm sorry VD, totally forgot I wanted to reply to you yesterday... here goes, with delay!

Void__Dragon wrote:So do you think he was just born with iron hands then? You find that less absurd than a legendary superbeing holding a robot below magma?
[...]
It is in the Space Wolves section of Index Astartes II. I'll also go ahead and note that the breastplate smashing bit was also present in the "actual" account in A Thousand Sons (The novel), by Graham McNeill (Who, if you recall, actually has worked on GW codices and Index Astartes articles), though you might not particularly care.
[...]
It was a Black Crusade.
Legionairres armed with absurdly powerful Daemon Weapons, potent Thousand Sons sorcerers, Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, any manner of big nasties that could harm a Primarch significantly.
[...]
Wait, you're referring to the line that they complemented eachother's abilities well? That doesn't imply that they were even near equals in martial or physical skill, and it completely ignores the fact that Luther, as a Space Marine, needed to dope on the power flooded into him by all four Chaos Gods to be his equal, lol.

1: No, I don't think he was just born with iron hands. I actually believe he got them there. Just not by plunging his hands into molten lava and metal. Perhaps the "iron hands" were just a sort of powered gauntlets he recovered from the remains?

Again: you have to see through the mysticism and keep in mind that the story you hear has been recorded by people who had the technological knowledge of humans in the ancient world. They've never seen something like power armour, lasers or computers. If you have no problem to assume that the "Great Silver Wyrm" was a machine rather than an actual animal of silver, then you have already acknowledged that the story is not a factual account - so why do you take everything else so literal?

2: Ah, thanks, I was looking at the wrong article then. Still, even that one notes how it is an oral tradition of the Space Wolves. Who, as the other article already mentioned, have a reputation of talking a lot of bs as far as their stories go.

Regarding Graham McNeill, I indeed do not care much about this, for individual authors are not necessarily a representation of studio consensus. Take a look at Gav Thorpe's novels, for example. I've only read one myself, but I do not agree with his representation of the Salamanders Chapter, who in that story (which was otherwise a pretty awesome and enjoyable read though) treated the Imperial Guard like gak, almost hitting an officer for daring to suggest his troops relieve them. Whilst this behaviour would have been fitting for many, if not most Astartes Chapters, I have always thought the Salamanders to be somewhat more sociable to normal humans.

3: Even though it was a Black Crusade, I do not really think that every random CSM on every random starship was juiced up with daemon weapons. If Russ had been killed by a Greater Daemon or Daemon Prince, I am sure the material would have mentioned it, for it would have been an (even) more heroic death.

4. Again, I have never talked about the time they were supposedly equals, but about the extent of the gap between them before the Emperor's arrival. Both being warriors in a knightly order, "complementing each other well" would, or so I assume, refer to their martial prowess rather than Luther being a good cook and singer or something.

Void__Dragon wrote:The difference between divine magic and the power of the Warp from a mortal perspective is nonexistent, IMHO. It is power that can't be explained by science and only slightly controlled or measured through various Warp sciences (In terms of Chaos specifically, it basically just can't), it violates the laws of physics and reshapes worlds when it enters realspace, and it is gifted by immense and massively powerful beings in a higher plane. That the gods live in the Warp hardly discounts them from being gods.

Yeah, but when GW specifically noted the Sisters of Battle to never be able to get any psychic powers, and even having an innate mental shield neutralising them ... what am I to believe when I hear about them doing miracles? If it can't be psychic powers, it has to be something else. So either actual divine magic exists in 40k, or it really was just exaggeration and hyperbole. I go with the latter, especially as some GW sources specifically relativate the divinity of their abilities with lines such as "regarded miraculous by the unschooled". In short: Imperials are dumb and superstitious, so they like to label anything cool they see an act of the Emperor's will and go to great lengths to make a neat story of it.

Oh, I also pretend that none of the C.S. Goto books are canon. Minimally, I'll take bits and pieces out that are even halfway decent.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Oh, I also pretend that none of the C.S. Goto books are canon. Minimally, I'll take bits and pieces out that are even halfway decent.

Says who?

My spacemarines are not authorized to wear capes or robes or have ridiculous adornments to their battle gear as it would hinder them in combat. All the capes and decorations are saved for parades and special ceremonies. I like to use the DA codex but I hate that the Primarch name is Lionel Johnson. So my chapter uses DA rules but has Rogal Dorn as a primarch (i know much better name). I also like to think that there are sectors of the emprium where life doesn't totally suck for the common folks.

Darth Bob wrote:Oh, I also pretend that none of the C.S. Goto books are canon.

That's not a retcon, that's how - according to the majority of GW and BL employees - it's supposed to work.

I don't know if anyone else has posted this option yet, but i tend to go with the premise that a splinter sect of degeneratively insane khorne worshippers impressed by a fallen inquisitor into mascarading as grey knights are responsible for most of the actions attributed to them in their more recent codex...

 Lynata wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:Oh, I also pretend that none of the C.S. Goto books are canon.

That's not a retcon, that's how - according to the majority of GW and BL employees - it's supposed to work.

I always interpreted that as them saying "We can't keep track of our background material well enough to have an established canon, so feth it, there isn't any." Fair enough, though.

 Neorealist wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has posted this option yet, but i tend to go with the premise that a splinter sect of degeneratively insane khorne worshippers impressed by a fallen inquisitor into mascarading as grey knights are responsible for most of the actions attributed to them in their more recent codex...

Lol brilliant.

Stuff I'd rather see retconned?

- A major craftworld being brought to its knees by a single random SM chapter
- The Hivemind being an independent entity rather than a gestalt conciseness
- Newcrons
- Draigo (I supposed Ward fluff in general)
- Fulgrim having exorcised his Slaaneshi possession

I don't know if anyone else has posted this option yet, but i tend to go with the premise that a splinter sect of degeneratively insane khorne worshippers impressed by a fallen inquisitor into mascarading as grey knights are responsible for most of the actions attributed to them in their more recent codex...

Please make it so GW!

Personally?
Well Dark Angels fluff made me think about some stuff

Wanderers in pacticular
-Terminators are rarer still
-Leaders are still in terminator armor
-Lots of Mortis Dreadnoughts ( changed from small amount of dreads to alot of dakka dreads)
-Lots of nephilim fighters (instead of storm ravens)
-Storm Eagles in mass production instead of thunderhawks
-Sniper Rifles added because of no scout squads (And also because scouts suck)
-Land speeders and bikes more commonly used
-Changed characters personalities
-Changed them to be left out of the inner circle making them part of the Forgiven parts of the successors.
-Angel Ranks stayed
-Noticely Grimdarkier
-Seekers have an elite unit... within an elite unit (lulz wut?)
-Noticeably smaller chapter
-More organized
-Raven Guard but with dark angel routes.
-Assualt Marines = past (Got rid of assualt marines and replaced them with sniper squads)
-More use of devastator squads
-Noticeably less skulls and more camouflage
-less slicy dicey more shooty shooty.
-Pyschic Blank geneseed noticeably RARER, unlike 1 in every 10 astartes.
-Star Fortress Is moveable and very much like the rock
- dark terrible secret, secrets that they have about terrible fates. One that would damn them and their successors
-Have fallen of their own they must hunt.
-Insanity common in psychic blanks
-Notable Traitors from The Wanderers that are known across the Imperium, Nisroc the Raven of Despair,
So alot of changes to my lore due to the new codex

I am morally opposed to the notion of marginalizing melee combat in 40k, personally.

Orks psychic thingy only makes their weapon more reliable, it will not turn a stick into a power sword even if every still Ork thinks so.

And they cannot survive decapitation.

Guardsmen are rather competent.

That first part and the second part are not retcons, they are part of 40k canon.

Well personnal retcon.

The whoever is narrating the Ork fluff did it wrong.

Tyranids don't have special characters. I seriously don't know why they all say "this particular nid has never been seen since" and yet every nid army has a Doom of Malan'tai accompanying it. That's not even getting started on how silly it is that a single Zoanthrope took down a Craftworld.

 Galdos wrote:
Newcrons are simply the more activated versions of Oldcrons. IE. Oldcrons fluff was what the Imperial xeno-experts thought the Necrons were at the time but as time goes on the learned more about them and understand what the Newcrons are now.

Than there is a bunch of other things that dont really get factored in.

The Golden Throne isnt failling

Most IG regiments are actually compitenant with military leaders like commissars who actually care about their men and avoid wasting them.

The Mechanicum does still do advancement and technological research, it is just very slow and careful.

Draigo is actually fighting a mind war with Tzeentch. Everythign he has ever done is actually Tzeentch fething with him in his mind trying to show everything he does is pointless but if he joined Chaos he COULD have a lasting impact in an attempt to turn him.

Grey Knights rarely kill those they know are innocent and do not mind wipe loyal subjects.

The Inquisition, though willing to kill the innocent, makes sure that all actions are calculated to be long term effective. They dont just declare world exterminatus because feth that guy. They actually do their job correctly in other words.

Tau are very agreesive in their attitudes towards others so even minor resistance can result in their military actions. Non-Tau members are considered second class, humans and other races that fight the Tau are even worse than that
Ill list others later

Get. Out. Of. My. Mind!!!!!!!!!!

You're a telepath, aren't you? 'Cause this is pretty much how I see it.

In my 40k universe Space Wolves are limp wristed, lisping Carrot Tops who run away flailing and screaming if there's a spider in the room. They also cry for no apparent reason and only drink Bud Light because regular Bud is "Thimply too thtrong for uth thpathe wolvth!"

Because I simply do not like them.

 ChaoticBob wrote:
In my 40k universe Space Wolves are limp wristed, lisping Carrot Tops who run away flailing and screaming if there's a spider in the room. They also cry for no apparent reason and only drink Bud Light because regular Bud is "Thimply too thtrong for uth thpathe wolvth!"
.

No, that is probably you IRL...

On topic :
Some HH books...I'mean great thing about books is that if you don't like one - erase it from your mind...If you can:-)

 ChaoticBob wrote:
In my 40k universe Space Wolves are limp wristed, lisping Carrot Tops who run away flailing and screaming if there's a spider in the room. They also cry for no apparent reason and only drink Bud Light because regular Bud is "Thimply too thtrong for uth thpathe wolvth!"

Because I simply do not like them.

Awesome! I will stick to this every time I hear someone say that Leman Russ was the smartest of the primarchs.

Whoever says that Russ was the smartest Primarch is fooling themselves. He's a weapon, Dorn's the Tactician.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Whoever says that Russ was the smartest Primarch is fooling themselves. He's a weapon, Dorn's the Tactician.

And Guilliman the stratigist, and Alpharius Omegon the... other smart guys.

 ChaoticBob wrote:
In my 40k universe Space Wolves are limp wristed, lisping Carrot Tops who run away flailing and screaming if there's a spider in the room. They also cry for no apparent reason and only drink Bud Light because regular Bud is "Thimply too thtrong for uth thpathe wolvth!"

Because I simply do not like them.

I lol'd.

You get the Magnus the Red Seal of Approval for outstanding achievements in furbashing.

As soon as I make one.

Not so much a retcon as an idea, but there have been 3 Ork Prophets of the Waaagh! as foretold by Weirdboyz. The first was Gharkul Blackfang, the second The Beast, the third Ghazghkull.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Whoever says that Russ was the smartest Primarch is fooling themselves. He's a weapon, Dorn's the Tactician.

And Guilliman the stratigist, and Alpharius Omegon the... other smart guys.

No Alpharius is bad writen James Bond who is 1,70 cm tall and was decapitated by a smurf ,and Omegus is his gai brother...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 ChaoticBob wrote:
In my 40k universe Space Wolves are limp wristed, lisping Carrot Tops who run away flailing and screaming if there's a spider in the room. They also cry for no apparent reason and only drink Bud Light because regular Bud is "Thimply too thtrong for uth thpathe wolvth!"

Because I simply do not like them.

I lol'd.

You get the Magnus the Red Seal of Approval for outstanding achievements in furbashing.

As soon as I make one.

No doubt you LOL-ed it...or any hateful comment towards SW, but that's you...

Hahaha, I understand the hatred of Girlyman, but this is toppling it even for me. I'm all for him going realpolitik on people after the HH and such, and sure he should have his amount of blame after he left the High Lords with the IOM in shambles in a badly written George Washington-style, but this much bile even I resents.