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 Eisenhorn wrote:
I think rent in LA is rediculous

It's funny that the LA Battle Bunker isn't in LA. However, Orange County isn't much cheaper. D'oh!

I know that Brookhurst Hobbies has gaming nights and leagues, as well as sponsoring tournaments and local conventions like the SoCal SmackDown. They do have more tables in the back, which is where I suspect most of the regulars play when it gets "busy". I don't see it on their schedule, but they have a WM/H night for sure, since I know guys who go there to play. Just call them up if you have any questions. I'm sure they'll be most cooperative if you offer to get some of their Mantic stock off their hands.

There's also a place called Trinity Comics in Fountain Valley with a gaming table. They might be willing to clear a couple of stock tables, too, for the right incentive$. (They remind me of Stuart's comic book store from Big Bang Theory.)

I had no idea Mercenary Market existed, so there's a positive here. I must check that place out.

Drew is the manager at the Tustin one-man shop.

 azgrim wrote:
If im understaning this right ,there will be alot of displaced bunker regulars ,but where will you all go?

Most will quit or take up video games, the purpose of a GW store (from our side of things) is that you can go at anytime and enjoy a game any day of the week and know the stuff you want is on hand 99% of the time, now all those people will have to hunt down a store, schedule games or buy a table. In the end its just more work to have to play warhammer, and for a lot of the people that went there will consider this a personal attack or a sign of a failing company. GW is nuking its gaming communities, If you dont game, you dont spend money.

GW really cuts themselves there. It's basic psychology, seriously. When you play at GW store, you feel obliged to give sth. in return aka buying stuff. Why the hell would I now buy sth. at a GW store where I can't even play when I can just order stuff online at a 20% discount?

Genius GW is genius.

I also like how the official statement can be summed up to "FECK YOU VETERANS!"

Yeah no kidding, I almost think GW is trying to kill its veteran community.

dodicula wrote:
"you can be assured that you will still have access to the same, great range of Games Workshop product as before"

oh wow, thank god for that, one cant possibly get these anywhere else. Oh well I guess yet another group of gamers will learn the joys of internet discounts

That line pissed me off too, that was salt in wound.

 RiTides wrote:

I think the decision to close the Bunker in the Baltimore area, give little to no news of what their plans were, and then suddenly re-open it in the middle of nowhere was really poor decision from a business perspective. Obviously, I don't have their numbers, but the old bunker did tons of business and as I said, was a draw for a huge area.

This is the part of GWs plan that makes no sense. "Open destination store, kill gaming community."

When I was with the company there were 2 kinds of stores 1) Recruiter stores, the ones that were put in high foot traffic mall areas and 2) Bunkers, destination type stores that supported a big gaming community. GW dashed that concept with the one man stores in a cost cutting method, sure the store here went from $5000 a month in rent down to $1500 but it was put in a place with zero foot traffic, and GW being the way they are were still expecting the same level of sales as the mall. I saw the regulars going from 30+ down to 15, however those 15 kept that store going because the manager there was cool as hell, but then GW chased that manager away despite increasing sales and put in one of their zealous drone sell-bots whose first action was to kick out some regulars.

I cant see it working out, when you displace and piss off your customers that only want to give you money, loyalty is the last thing you should expect.

I'm no longer actually playing GW stuff

but my experience was that vets quite often never really bought anything in store (bar the odd pot of paint), but did take up a load of table space/time and were never terribly helpful when it came to newer inexperienced players wanting a game

('they should learn the game before they come in and waste out time' being a not infrequent comment)

now I'm not suggesting that exciting games with well painted models won't be a draw, but especially in stores with lots of tables I doubt they make up for the extra rent they have to pay.

It may be a real pain for the players who have lost their gaming space but any company has to make hard decisions about how long to support 'loss leader' aspects of their business.

From the sound of it there are a significant number of displaced players, so have any of them thought about getting a club togther and renting some space ?

This is an unexpected and sad start for Tom Kirby's announced campaign to plaster the USA with 700 new GW stores

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The inexorable march of the 1-man store continues...

I pity the one man.

almostreal wrote:
Flame away GW haters..lol

Oh, choke on your smugness and die.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
but my experience was that vets quite often never really bought anything in store (bar the odd pot of paint), but did take up a load of table space/time and were never terribly helpful when it came to newer inexperienced players wanting a game

And my experience was that without veteran gamers there to play against, games devolved into shouting matches between two newbies neither of whom was at all versed in the rules. But really, anecdotes have no place in discussions like this. You can find one for every imaginable position you'd care to espouse with regard to gamers, from the unwashed hobo-gamer who defecated on the floor, to the GW staffer greeting customers while wearing a rubber horse mask because he lost a bet.

 Kroothawk wrote:
This is an unexpected and sad start for Tom Kirby's announced campaign to plaster the USA with 700 new GW stores

Well there's where all our money is going.... and they fly out the managers to memphis every 3 months too. Hmm, and with them killing gaming in stores why exactly am I paying more for their stores when they have no purpose?

 Hulksmash wrote:
@RiTides

Take a breath buddy. I was referring to Pretre's comment about renting the same spot and opening a FLGS. As I'd heard that's what the previous Baltimore Bunker manager did and the store is doing well. Could be wrong, I obviously don't live in the area

Whoops, sorry and you're exactly right!

Obviously a sore spot, but I am sooooo happy about the new FLGS there!

I'm not sweating this reorg too much. I'm a GW-Glendale customer and won't drive to LA on a bet. The Glendale Store is close, there's a Starbuck's next door, it's 10 minutes away on side streets and the Manager is really great people. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize. If GW-Glendale doesn't have what I want, I order online. If I need a fix or supplies on a day he's closed, The Last Grenadier, Burbank, CA. is always a great option So meh! No great loss.

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If it changes, it's still not the EOTW. I can go to The Last Grenadier or stop by the central library and talk about the weather with the hobos in the courtyard.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yeah no kidding, I almost think GW is trying to kill its veteran community.

Veterans will actually be the least impacted by actions like these. Vets are more likely to know about the various other methods which they can play their games (homes, clubs, conventions, tournaments) as well as various other sources for the products. They don't need a store to provide networking to find players in their local community as they already generally have people who they play with.

It will kill new growth though. If a kid off the street walks into the store and there isn't a cluster of people playing - he will likely not know who plays. If the store shuts down, they won't be as well prepared to find other sources of the products (not to mention most kids lacking credit cards and what not for online purchases). Kids are more reliant on stores for gaming specific items as well. I have a game room, huge table, shelves for storing more terrain than I could use at any given time...and a pony keg in the refrigerator. Your average target noob doesn't have any of that - and his parents aren't going to let him set up anything that complete anyway.

Since the company is so reliant on that fresh blood...it doesn't bode well for the long term.

 Sigvatr wrote:
GW really cuts themselves there. It's basic psychology, seriously. When you play at GW store, you feel obliged to give sth. in return aka buying stuff. Why the hell would I now buy sth. at a GW store where I can't even play when I can just order stuff online at a 20% discount?

You're not the target demographic anymore. They want the 13-year old kid to shop there. In fact they don't even want you around because you might tell the kids about shopping at online stores and ebay.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I think kids know better about anything to do with online than anybody, chris valera

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yeah no kidding, I almost think GW is trying to kill its veteran community.

Veterans will actually be the least impacted by actions like these. Vets are more likely to know about the various other methods which they can play their games (homes, clubs, conventions, tournaments) as well as various other sources for the products. They don't need a store to provide networking to find players in their local community as they already generally have people who they play with... Since the company is so reliant on that fresh blood...it doesn't bode well for the long term.

Exactly Sean. I'm not a vet player, but I've been modeling for 40+ years. Store closings or format changes aren't going to affect guys like me. I'll shop/play somewhere else. My one man store is close by. I guess I'm lucky. It used to be a mall location. Its now in an older section of Glendale and the parking sucks. However, the folks I've met there, gamers and staff alike, are all nice folks. The people keep me coming back. GW is a corporation with stockholders that they have to satisfy. The LA Bunker obviously wasn't cost effective, so corporate changed it. As far as product offerings go, my store can get me what I want or I'll go online or shop ebay. I've never set foot in the LA Bunker, nor would I make the drive down to the store. Gas is too expensive and time is too precious. Hey! Here's an idea... close that location completely, move the Glendale Store back to the Galleria and make it the LA Bunker!

 Breotan wrote:
I heard that all the remaining bunkers (except Memphis) are likely to disappear once their leases are up. To my knowledge, none of them generate an actual profit. I also expect a lot of the smaller shops in crowded (by other GW stores) areas like Seattle or LA to pull up stakes once they become unprofitable.

Any idea how credible this source is or how soon Seattle's lease will be up?

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If the first thing Tres says that he does when he goes to this GW is "shop", then I assume that store will be ok.

I think the most telling part of this whole thing is, if you look at the bunker's facebook page...people are more interested in getting the Bunker's terrain given to them, or auctioned off then really caring about the employees or even the community.

I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

 RiTides wrote:
I think kids know better about anything to do with online than anybody, chris valera

My experience is that "kids" tend to be mostly clueless when navigating the internet. Most of them have grown up with web 2.0 as opposed to the real internet and have little clue at how to find things which don't have an App attached to them. The most skilled tend to be those who were coming of age during the late 1990s and early 2000s (I guess that would put them in their late 20s and early 30s now). Back then, they still had to actually know how to structure a Boolean search in order to find thing and were capable of actually deciphering a URL.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
I heard that all the remaining bunkers (except Memphis) are likely to disappear once their leases are up. To my knowledge, none of them generate an actual profit. I also expect a lot of the smaller shops in crowded (by other GW stores) areas like Seattle or LA to pull up stakes once they become unprofitable.

Any idea how credible this source is or how soon Seattle's lease will be up?

It is inline with what they have been doing and their stated goals in their financial reports. Larger areas of retail space which aren't used to actually sell product are very expensive - even in rough neighborhoods or strip mall locations. Seattle has rather more expensive rent than a lot of other locations which have already been transitioned to smaller, cheaper locations - so there really isn't any reason to think that they would not be as well.

almostreal wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If the first thing Tres says that he does when he goes to this GW is "shop", then I assume that store will be ok.

I think the most telling part of this whole thing is, if you look at the bunker's facebook page...people are more interested in getting the Bunker's terrain given to them, or auctioned off then really caring about the employees or even the community.

I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

So you think killing off gaming tables in stores will make it all better?

 Ravenous D wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If the first thing Tres says that he does when he goes to this GW is "shop", then I assume that store will be ok.

I think the most telling part of this whole thing is, if you look at the bunker's facebook page...people are more interested in getting the Bunker's terrain given to them, or auctioned off then really caring about the employees or even the community.

I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

So you think killing off gaming tables in stores will make it all better?

Ravenous... no one is advocating the removal of the gaming tables. The gaming tables are great, but they are not revenue earners. If the tables aren't generating enough interest in walk-in traffic to increase cash flow, then the operational paradigm of the store has to change... and it is. The Glendale store has 4 tables. 1 display, 1 painting, and 2 gaming. It has one manager. It is a lean operation and is busiest on the weekends. This is normal for most hobby themed businesses. GW is a business. Their main interest is making a profit. If you believe downsizing is a bad idea then do something proactve. Write the CEO and the BOD. Start a petition campaign. I'm sure the manager is happy the store is downsizing instead of closing completely.
Cheers.

almostreal wrote:
I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

It's the fault of the customer? Might not some of the fault lie with the company that continually raises prices 3% year after year, even as their player base is shrinking further and further?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

nickthewise wrote:

 azgrim wrote:
If im understaning this right ,there will be alot of displaced bunker regulars ,but where will you all go?

There's a store called Mercenary Market about 10 miles down the freeway which should benefit from the Bunker losing its gaming space. Otherwise game stores (with dedicated space) in O.C. are rather limited. The Realm is great, but would be quite a drive for most Bunker regulars.

Thanks for the shout out Nick. We (The Realm) are in Brea, just off the 57 by the Brea Mall. Been around almost 10 years, and just moved to a larger space in the same shopping mall. We have 4 large gaming tables and terrain, and smaller tables for painting / building, board and card games. But we can drop boards down on those tables to accomodate more wargaming.

We run a tournamnet every 1st Saturday, and carry pretty much GW's full line of product minus a chunk of LOTR stuff.

Thursdays players gather all day from noon to close (usually between 11pm and Midnight) to play minature games which may include some Flames of War or Warmachine, but there is plenty of GW games going on.

Our tables are always open for use unless we have large events that need the tables.

Ok that's enough salesmanship for one post. But don't hesitate to contact us about events or using the tables. (See Sig below post)

I know the bunkers dont make money, they never were meant too, it was the recruiter stores that made the cash, but with the switch to the one man stores and the rumblings they are getting rid of tables all together it raises some serious questions about GWs knowledge and ability to run a gaming store. If you make a destination store (which all the one man stores are) then you have to keep your regulars and make them want to spend money.

Most people will say that they would never go to a GW if it wasnt for the tables or the gaming because the staff are just brutal and impossible to deal with. The point is GW is doing nothing to improve its image with people that want to give them money. Understand that I love this game and Ive been doing it for 20 years, so when I watch a gaming community shrink steadily with all those leaving saying "GW screwed me" and the like, then it means you have to look at GWs ability to maintain a positive community. Happy/blissfully ignorant gamers spend money, the problem is GW isnt doing anything on the happy side of that, it looks more like they are just trying to swindle you in the night.

A local store here just had the manager move on to bigger and better things and the guy they brought in was a casual gamer, he was pretty laid back and quickly understood that there is little point being a chud to his customers. People were happy, so the store started making a lot more money, it gained 14% growth in 3 months. Having said that, the store was still in the red (zero foot traffic area) so GW upper management hounded the manager with constant visits and ran him through days of their training regimes to the point where he quit because it wasnt worth the crap. GW then put one of those zealous sales-drones in whose first action was to kick out 5 of the 15 regulars, and since then the place has been a ghost town.

Point is you can make a large profit off a gaming community, but making them struggle to use your product and alienating them isnt the way to go about it.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
My experience is that "kids" tend to be mostly clueless when navigating the internet. Most of them have grown up with web 2.0 as opposed to the real internet and have little clue at how to find things which don't have an App attached to them. The most skilled tend to be those who were coming of age during the late 1990s and early 2000s (I guess that would put them in their late 20s and early 30s now). Back then, they still had to actually know how to structure a Boolean search in order to find thing and were capable of actually deciphering a URL.

Agreed. Back in my day, we had to type bbc code tags manually uphill both ways! We didn't have these fancy FaceSpaces or MyBooks to do the job for us. Hrumpf...

Realmgames wrote:

nickthewise wrote:

 azgrim wrote:
If im understaning this right ,there will be alot of displaced bunker regulars ,but where will you all go?

There's a store called Mercenary Market about 10 miles down the freeway which should benefit from the Bunker losing its gaming space. Otherwise game stores (with dedicated space) in O.C. are rather limited. The Realm is great, but would be quite a drive for most Bunker regulars.

Thanks for the shout out Nick. We (The Realm) are in Brea, just off the 57 by the Brea Mall. Been around almost 10 years, and just moved to a larger space in the same shopping mall. We have 4 large gaming tables and terrain, and smaller tables for painting / building, board and card games. But we can drop boards down on those tables to accomodate more wargaming.

We run a tournamnet every 1st Saturday, and carry pretty much GW's full line of product minus a chunk of LOTR stuff.

Thursdays players gather all day from noon to close (usually between 11pm and Midnight) to play minature games which may include some Flames of War or Warmachine, but there is plenty of GW games going on.

Our tables are always open for use unless we have large events that need the tables.

Ok that's enough salesmanship for one post. But don't hesitate to contact us about events or using the tables. (See Sig below post)

I'll attest to this. Great people there, good hours, and if they don't have it they can order it for you.

I'm sad to see the Bunker go, but honestly, most of the people I've talked to avoided it like the plague... what concerns us isn't the loss of the store, but what that implies for us in the future for areas to game.

I honestly, truly want to ask some of the GW staff who hold onto the "Beer and pretzel" mentality, and claim that they're a model company, not a game company. Without malice or ill intent, I want to ask them what their sales would look like without 40k or Fantasy to give games to their models? Because honestly, a good portion of the fantasy models aren't even all that generic to use in other games, and 40k (save the IG) are even more so.

Here's another good point; GW prices obviously include the maintenence of their stores and employees, they've always said that we pay for the convenience and knowledge that their hobby centers provide, so if they have no knowledge you need or point of going then what exactly are we paying for? The mere privliege of having product that is at a higher cost? Why bother with the stores then? And why are they adding more?

Essentially GW are taking away the ability to use their product from people and telling them to do more work if they wish to do so. Thats not a winning business model, especially in this day and age of instant gratification.

And entitlement Ravenous D. Age of Instant Gratification and Entitlement......

Can't say I'm surprised, or sad. Quality of the store went WAY down after they fired/transferred/whatever most of the staff and replaced with utterly clueless ones.