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 skoffs wrote:
Silly question, but do Riptides (and Dreadknights, I guess) have hull points?
(I've never run up against either before, so I've never needed to know, previously).

They're both Monstrous Creatures, so they've got Wounds (5 and 4 respectively), not Hull Points.

No hull points on Riptides, no.

 skoffs wrote:
Silly question, but do Riptides (and Dreadknights, I guess) have hull points?
(I've never run up against either before, so I've never needed to know, previously).

No they don't. They're monstrous creatures.


Ah....didn't see that this was already answered on p. 3.

Ah, noted.
(they looked mechanical, I figured they might have been walkers/dreadnoughts)

Anyway, if high toughness/multiple wounds are the problem, would Veiling over a squad of Deathmarks on turn one be a solution?
- It gets around Interceptor because the Deathmark unit will start on the table, so no coming in from reserves.
- no need to worry about Overwatch, as you're not going to be assaulting the thing.
- if they mark the Riptide with HfH it will be wounded on a 2+, meaning high toughness is irrelevant.
- seeing as how there is a risk in scattering too close/far, you won't be able to land within range of the Despair-tek's template, but you should still be in range to do 20 rapidfire sniper shots, so that aught to do something.

Yes, you will most likely lose the Deathmarks in the Tau players following turn, but would it be worth it to kamikaze the squad in order to (just about) guarantee not having worry about the Riptide for the rest of the game?

 skoffs wrote:
Ah, noted.
(they looked mechanical, I figured they might have been walkers/dreadnoughts)

Anyway, if high toughness/multiple wounds are the problem, would Veiling over a squad of Deathmarks on turn one be a solution?
- It gets around Interceptor because the Deathmark unit will start on the table, so no coming in from reserves.
- no need to worry about Overwatch, as you're not going to be assaulting the thing.
- if they mark the Riptide with HfH it will be wounded on a 2+, meaning high toughness is irrelevant.
- seeing as how there is a risk in scattering too close/far, you won't be able to land within range of the Despair-tek's template, but you should still be in range to do 20 rapidfire sniper shots, so that aught to do something.

Yes, you will most likely lose the Deathmarks in the Tau players following turn, but would it be worth it to kamikaze the squad in order to (just about) guarantee not having worry about the Riptide for the rest of the game?

A full Squad of Deathmarks, even if the Abyssal stave hits, is unlikely to kill a riptide, thanks to it's 2+ save.

It has a 2+ invulnerable save!?!

 skoffs wrote:
It has a 2+ invulnerable save!?!

nope 3+

 skoffs wrote:
Ah, noted.
(they looked mechanical, I figured they might have been walkers/dreadnoughts)

Anyway, if high toughness/multiple wounds are the problem, would Veiling over a squad of Deathmarks on turn one be a solution?
- It gets around Interceptor because the Deathmark unit will start on the table, so no coming in from reserves.
- no need to worry about Overwatch, as you're not going to be assaulting the thing.
- if they mark the Riptide with HfH it will be wounded on a 2+, meaning high toughness is irrelevant.
- seeing as how there is a risk in scattering too close/far, you won't be able to land within range of the Despair-tek's template, but you should still be in range to do 20 rapidfire sniper shots, so that aught to do something.

Yes, you will most likely lose the Deathmarks in the Tau players following turn, but would it be worth it to kamikaze the squad in order to (just about) guarantee not having worry about the Riptide for the rest of the game?

Not sure about the Riptide, but a couple of squads might work against the Dreadknight (to double up the abyssal staffs). Also, you might be able to pin the dreadknight as it isn't fearless.

Probably better off using the deathmarks to kill the ethereal and make the FW run.

I would have thought the Rending the Deathmarks bring, combined with the AP1 of the Abyssal Staff (if you manage to make it close enough to use it without mishapping), might have been enough to put sufficient wounds on a Riptide to put it out of commission, but if it's going to take two full D&D squads just to take on a single Riptide, then maybe this isn't such a good idea after all...

 skoffs wrote:
I would have thought the Rending the Deathmarks bring, combined with the AP1 of the Abyssal Staff (if you manage to make it close enough to use it without mishapping), might have been enough to put sufficient wounds on a Riptide to put it out of commission, but if it's going to take two full D&D squads just to take on a single Riptide, then maybe this isn't such a good idea after all...

I have not found a unit yet that compares in cost to the riptide that can kill it at range...it has 5 wounds tough 6, 2+ save/5++ invul (overcharge to 3++) and you can take fnp on it for a price.....it is super resilient

Just put a couple wounds on the Riptide with Tesla Destructors (and/or wait for a Nova Charge failure). Once they're at 3W remaining, a single D+D unit should suffice.

There's no good 'do this and it instantly dies' option, but who said killing Voltron should be easy?

My problem against tau came against three suits (not sure if crisis or broadside) with 8-10 drones all lobbing ap 4, str 7-8 missles at one unit at a time. Took out all six wraiths in a turn. My ghost arcs were popped by his rail gun and something else which I can't name at the time, also on turn one. It went downhill from there.

And scenario? KP. All KP.

 skoffs wrote:
I would have thought the Rending the Deathmarks bring, combined with the AP1 of the Abyssal Staff (if you manage to make it close enough to use it without mishapping), might have been enough to put sufficient wounds on a Riptide to put it out of commission, but if it's going to take two full D&D squads just to take on a single Riptide, then maybe this isn't such a good idea after all...

I actually meant 2 squads of 5, but it is possible that 2 full squads would be required.

Riptides MIGHT get a 3+ invul. Deathmarks aren't a bad option since the Nova Reactor used to shield it must be used in the Riptides Movement phase, meaning it doesn't necessarily KNOW its going to need or want it. Shooting is its priority while it still can.

 whigwam wrote:
Just put a couple wounds on the Riptide with Tesla Destructors (and/or wait for a Nova Charge failure). Once they're at 3W remaining, a single D+D unit should suffice.

There's no good 'do this and it instantly dies' option, but who said killing Voltron should be easy?

Agreed. You should be able to put a few wounds on it, before The Nightscythe drops off the D+D combo. Knocking out it's full 5 wounds even with a full Deathmark Squad, is very unlikely.

 Sasori wrote:

 whigwam wrote:
Just put a couple wounds on the Riptide with Tesla Destructors (and/or wait for a Nova Charge failure). Once they're at 3W remaining, a single D+D unit should suffice.

There's no good 'do this and it instantly dies' option, but who said killing Voltron should be easy?

Agreed. You should be able to put a few wounds on it, before The Nightscythe drops off the D+D combo. Knocking out it's full 5 wounds even with a full Deathmark Squad, is very unlikely.

I thought if you use a Nightscythe to drop them off, it will be able to shoot at them with Interceptor? (they'll be arriving from reserves, after all).
I guess if you shoot at them with some sort of long range gun first (Heavy Gauss Cannon, etc), and then hit them with the Deathmarks, maybe then...

 skoffs wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 whigwam wrote:
Just put a couple wounds on the Riptide with Tesla Destructors (and/or wait for a Nova Charge failure). Once they're at 3W remaining, a single D+D unit should suffice.

There's no good 'do this and it instantly dies' option, but who said killing Voltron should be easy?

Agreed. You should be able to put a few wounds on it, before The Nightscythe drops off the D+D combo. Knocking out it's full 5 wounds even with a full Deathmark Squad, is very unlikely.

I thought if you use a Nightscythe to drop them off, it will be able to shoot at them with Interceptor? (they'll be arriving from reserves, after all).
I guess if you shoot at them with some sort of long range gun first (Heavy Gauss Cannon, etc), and then hit them with the Deathmarks, maybe then...

Destructeks should be able to put wounds on the riptide and they have decent range. A combo of destructeks, with deathmarks (stalker if you have it) could be good. Or, if scarabs can hurt it with a furious charge buff, you could slow one down long enough to get wraiths into it (and you may get a lucky entropic strike wound )? Once you get a couple of wounds off it (and if you can catch it) you could also try to tesseract it. another thought would be Surflord (assuming you could keep the barge alive long enough). Praetorians with RoC (also AP2). Thing is, it seems you need to tailor the list specifically to kill and more so than tailoring to just deal with AV14, cos the Riptide is fast AND tough to kill.

Probably more chance of success of killing multiple riptides if the other player feels they need to nova charge for the 3+ save (as has been said before). Just having 2-4 destructeks on the table may help force that.

Intercept happens at the end of the move phase so you can shoot at whatever is sitting there at THAT time.

 Jancoran wrote:
Intercept happens at the end of the move phase so you can shoot at whatever is sitting there at THAT time.

And the D&D squad would have disembarked BEFORE the end of the movement phase, meaning they'd be the first thing any interceptors would fire at.

Regardless, if you need these many things dedicated to just taking down a single Riptide, your opponent's already won, as you'd basically be ignoring the rest of his army.
... maybe this is that one thing that unit of Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers would be good against?

Exactly. The D&D squads would be targets.

But to be fair... I dont know if them being "dedicated to its death" is necessarily a bad thing. once its dead they can be "dedicated to something elses death. Its not like a guarantee that they will die with intercept fire.

Not near my codex....can't Spyders take transdimensional beamers?

MarkCron wrote:
Not near my codex....can't Spyders take transdimensional beamers?

Spyders have access to TL Particle Beamers, not Transdimensional Beamers.

Drakmord wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Not near my codex....can't Spyders take transdimensional beamers?

Spyders have access to TL Particle Beamers, not Transdimensional Beamers.

On second thought, the Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers would still need to deep strike in to be able to use them, and even then would require a Phaeron to be able to fire in that same turn, AND Obyron to allow the Phaeron to veil with the Wraiths.
...
too many things just to be able to deal with one unit = not worth it.

(is there ANYTHING we've got to reliably take out a Riptide?)

Just let it take a few wounds first from Overcharge and Get's Hot and then bring it down with weight-of-fire (teslas). There are plenty of other targets in the Tau army, like, for instance, his Ethereal's unit, his troops and the pathfinders.