Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think we can all agree it's terribly sad to watch the dog die like that. I have a pretty extensive background in policing, including having served as a police officer and getting an undergraduate degree in policing. I'd like to put in my two-cents on the way this was handled, but I don't know if it is out of line because I'm not American.

Criminal history is not branded on someone. Applying that after the fact is irrelevant.

Also, critically, policing is not soldiering.

US citizens are not enemy combatants.

Posse comitatus. Its really important.

Edit - fix a word

masterdoobie wrote:
I think we can all agree it's terribly sad to watch the dog die like that. I have a pretty extensive background in policing, including having served as a police officer and getting an undergraduate degree in policing. I'd like to put in my two-cents on the way this was handled, but I don't know if it is out of line because I'm not American.

Go for it.
It won't be the worst thing that happened on this forum.

LOL thanks for reminding me on the time that someone jumped me for wanting to be on the water cannon during OWS protest.

Yes I know US Troops cannot be used against US Citizens unless a US Citizen becomes a threat and starts shooting at troops . How many of you all off the bat caught that? Him walking behind the LEO vehicles in their AO that started it off. Imadummy would have been alright if he stayed on his corner. Imadummy got stupid, went into "Lost my frame of mind" by walking behind the LEO vehicles and back to his corner, he knew what his dog was going to do that. Hate to say it if he owned that dog puppy on up. Its fun to me to see how many people assume those that wear uniforms are evil

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/02/prweb1946004.htm

from the article: "The Hawthorne Police Department paid One Million Dollars to a Settle Lawsuit in which it was alleged a man was kicked in the face while handcuffed and then falsely prosecuted along with his wife to cover up the brutality. Evidence the plaintiffs were prepared to present at trial included a photograph of an officer appearing to kick the handcuffed plaintiff in the face and a surveillance video allegedly depicting officers high-fiving each other as the injured plaintiff suffered from a broken jaw.

After approval by the City Council, Hawthorne paid $1,000,000, (one million dollars) to settle Goodrow v. Hawthorne Police Department, Case No. CV- 07-5253 (VBV), on the eve of trial in United States District Court, Central District of California, the Honorable Judge Valerie Baker Fairbank presiding."

What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

Dude should've kept his yap shut.

That said, poor dog. Not understanding the vagaries of police procedure, it tries to be loyal, and gets shot for its trouble.

 Jihadin wrote:
LOL thanks for reminding me on the time that someone jumped me for wanting to be on the water cannon during OWS protest.

Yes I know US Troops cannot be used against US Citizens unless a US Citizen becomes a threat and starts shooting at troops . How many of you all off the bat caught that? Him walking behind the LEO vehicles in their AO that started it off. Imadummy would have been alright if he stayed on his corner. Imadummy got stupid, went into "Lost my frame of mind" by walking behind the LEO vehicles and back to his corner, he knew what his dog was going to do that. Hate to say it if he owned that dog puppy on up. Its fun to me to see how many people assume those that wear uniforms are evil

I never understand why people blame the police right away.

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

I have a tingling feeling that tbis thread was created to vent his Cop Hate

Think Crab expanding his "attack"(?) against the Hawthorne PD. Poor word usage Crab I know. At the moment I'm a bit fudged in mind.

edit

Hawthorne Police Department Pays $1,000,000 To Settle Police Brutality & Corruption Lawsuit
The Hawthorne Police Department paid One Million Dollars to a Settle Lawsuit in which it was alleged a man was kicked in the face while handcuffed and then falsely prosecuted along with his wife to cover up the brutality. Evidence the plaintiffs were prepared to present at trial included a photograph of an officer appearing to kick the handcuffed plaintiff in the face and a surveillance video allegedly depicting officers high-fiving each other as the injured plaintiff suffered from a broken jaw.

King sued the city and a jury awarded him $3.8 million as well as $1.7 million in attorney's fees.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King

After approval by the City Council, Hawthorne paid $1,000,000, (one million dollars) to settle Goodrow v. Hawthorne Police Department, Case No. CV- 07-5253 (VBV), on the eve of trial in United States District Court, Central District of California, the Honorable Judge Valerie Baker Fairbank presiding.

Officers Ian Elliot, Thomas Heffner, Melanie Newenham, Renee Descant, Jeffrey Salmon, David Gregor and Jailer Darnell Wallace were among defendants named in the lawsuit. The plaintiffs Anthony Goodrow and Karla Henriquez Goodrow sued the Hawthorne Police Officers for alleged deprivation of their civil rights resulting from excessive force, denial of medical treatment and malicious prosecution, stemming from an incident that occurred at a party on July 21, 2006.

Google the cops name. They're still serving on the force. In fact the one that shot the dog is Jeffrey Salmon

On July 21, 2006, the Hawthorne Police Department received a loud noise complaint. Plaintiffs contend that in shutting down the party, officers beat plaintiff Anthony Goodrow, handcuffed him and then continued to beat him. It was further alleged that while Mr. Goodrow was handcuffed and face down on the cement, an Officer kicked Mr. Goodrow in the face breaking his jaw. Mr. Goodrow alleged he was arrested and taken to the jail instead of the hospital causing a delay in medical treatment. The wife of Mr. Goodrow, Karla Henriquez Goodrow, alleged she witnessed part of the beating and screamed for officers to stop. She alleged they arrested her and falsely charged her with public intoxication.

The Goodrows were then prosecuted in criminal court. Ultimately the criminal charges against Mr. Goodrow were dismissed. The case against Mrs. Goodrow proceeded to trial and she was acquitted. After the acquittal the Goodrows filed a federal lawsuit against the officers for deprivation of civil rights, excessive force, malicious prosecution and denial of medical treatment.

WTF....just one million dollars?

Attorney's Glen Jonas and Christopher Driscoll (from the law firm of Jonas & Driscoll L.L.P.) litigated the civil action to its successful conclusion. Todd Melnik was the attorney who successfully defended the plaintiffs in the original criminal matters, enabling the firm of Jonas & Driscoll to litigate the civil rights action against the defendant police officers.

In April 2008, the law firm of Jonas & Driscoll L.L.P. attained a $4.5 million dollar jury verdict against Bell Gardens Police Officers. In July 2009, Jonas & Driscoll L.L.P. will bring to trial L.A. County Sheriff's Deputies accused of viciously beating Deon Dirks.

Why is this law firm not nailing the PD and City Counsel to the wall?

Little hard to pick apart. Video are much better. How loud was Imadummy music was playing from his vehicle? Bass on a open mic a pain in the ass to deal with.

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

 Somedude593 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

I have a tingling feeling that tbis thread was created to vent his Cop Hate

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Think Crab expanding his "attack"(?) against the Hawthorne PD. Poor word usage Crab I know. At the moment I'm a bit fudged in mind.

Can we not make this thread about me? Thankyou.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

The video we have here, though, shows it was the dog owner at fault for going over by the police cars and general harrasment and distraction of police in the performance of a dangerous assignment. He brought it on himself.

Eh. The cops were legally in the right, from the looks of it.

Don't think it was necessary, though.

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

The video we have here, though, shows it was the dog owner at fault for going over by the police cars and general harrasment and distraction of police in the performance of a dangerous assignment. He brought it on himself.

I dissagree with that assesment. Had the two officers simply continued talking to eachother this would not have happened.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

The video we have here, though, shows it was the dog owner at fault for going over by the police cars and general harrasment and distraction of police in the performance of a dangerous assignment. He brought it on himself.

I dissagree with that assesment. Had the two officers simply continued talking to eachother this would not have happened.

Think about this, we have a man yelling at police when they are in the middle of a situation where they may be shot. He' s acting in a distracting and hostile manner, getting over by the cars where he might be scoping for loose weapons and he has a big dog with him. Definatly not someone I'd want behind me running loose if there was potentially going to be a fire fight.

Why do you not have to have a special license to have a rottweiler?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why do you not have to have a special license to have a rottweiler?

Why would you need one?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why do you not have to have a special license to have a rottweiler?

I don't think a special liscense is needed for any breed of dog, or am I wrong?

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

The video we have here, though, shows it was the dog owner at fault for going over by the police cars and general harrasment and distraction of police in the performance of a dangerous assignment. He brought it on himself.

I dissagree with that assesment. Had the two officers simply continued talking to eachother this would not have happened.

Think about the situation, we have a man yelling at police when they are in the middle of a situation where they may be shot. He' s acting in a distracting manner, getting over by the cars where he might potentially be scoping for loose weapons and he has a big dog with him. Definatly not someone I'd want behind me running loose if there was potentially going to be a fire fight.

They didn't seem to notice him walking across the street and back, they were in conversation from the look of it. If the area was as hostile and chaotic as it's being made out to be, why did it look so calm? Why were officers casually waking around? Why were individuals handcuffed and left to sit on the sidewalk if the situation was so dangerous?

Relapse wrote:
Think about this, we have a man yelling at police when they are in the middle of a situation where they may be shot. He' s acting in a distracting and hostile manner, getting over by the cars where he might be scoping for loose weapons and he has a big dog with him. Definatly not someone I'd want behind me running loose if there was potentially going to be a fire fight.

The arrest is likely fine. The shooting is likely fine, legally, for that matter. I'll continue to believe it wasn't necessary, though, having seen the video a few times.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I never understand why people blame the police right away.

Honestly, it sounds like you have very little experience dealing with police officers. I've traveled around the states quite a bit, and it's pretty much the same everywhere you go.

Outside of a a couple speeding tickets, I've never had any confrontations with the police directly. However, I've seen them abuse their station more than a few times, and that's more than a few times too much. I get that you love cops and all that they do, but if you honestly don't see why some people dislike and outright hate cops, and for damn legitimate reasons, then you either need to get out more or start facing the facts.

 Seaward wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why do you not have to have a special license to have a rottweiler?

Why would you need one?

A breed that was bred specifically for fighting and viciousness. On that is notoriously hard to train(My aunt breeds dogs for a living/hobby. Her dog behavioral specialist just refuses to reform rotts and pitbulls because how dangerous they can be)
They are a dangerous breed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necroshea wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I never understand why people blame the police right away.

Honestly, it sounds like you have very little experience dealing with police officers. I've traveled around the states quite a bit, and it's pretty much the same everywhere you go.

Outside of a a couple speeding tickets, I've never had any confrontations with the police directly. However, I've seen them abuse their station more than a few times, and that's more than a few times too much. I get that you love cops and all that they do, but if you honestly don't see why some people dislike and outright hate cops, and for damn legitimate reasons, then you either need to get out more or start facing the facts.

I can see, but to lump all cops into the bully category is just stupid. And most of my experiance have been on the good side of the law. Cops nearly stopped some drunk women from stabbing me. I rode around with some and saw how cop do their jobs. My scout troop leader was a cop who almost got shot as was one of my professors, cops have a job where they can die any second in our own backyard. I respect them for that.

I didn't want you to think I was going after you Crab

Besides your throwing in the articles but not understanding why his actions landed him in trouble and dog getting opted out. Those two cops talking didn't move until he walked back to his corner after his little walk over to LEO vehicles. Which he was seen by the third officer (Salmon) who was in front of the vehicles. One radio call to them and they all moved to him.

Would you walk over to LEO vehicles while their engage in a possible firefight that might break out? Would you play your music on max near them having "bass" echoing over the net everytime a mic gets open? Are you prepared to accept responsibility if a fire fight did break out and a cop, bystander, you and possible kids watching got hit? Being that you are part of the equation now. Making LEO looking out instead of in to ensure no one gets trigger happy.


All that freaking evidence from that article and they settle for a mil....whats the lawyer cut? before or after taxes on it?

edit
US troops are not allowed to have or bring over Rottweillers in Germany because how vicious they can be. Think Akita another one. We had one US Army NCO get demoted to buck private, sent back to the States, and spent time at Leavenworth. His dog got loose and like bit a kid face off damn near I think....like 2002-03.

110% blame Goering though for bringing American Raccoons to Germany. Think you can apply and purchase a fire arm to hunt those little critters down.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What's this have to do with what this thread is originally about?

One of the officers involved was the one that shot the dog.

That and it's the same police department.

The video we have here, though, shows it was the dog owner at fault for going over by the police cars and general harrasment and distraction of police in the performance of a dangerous assignment. He brought it on himself.

I dissagree with that assesment. Had the two officers simply continued talking to eachother this would not have happened.

Think about the situation, we have a man yelling at police when they are in the middle of a situation where they may be shot. He' s acting in a distracting manner, getting over by the cars where he might potentially be scoping for loose weapons and he has a big dog with him. Definatly not someone I'd want behind me running loose if there was potentially going to be a fire fight.

They didn't seem to notice him walking across the street and back, they were in conversation from the look of it. If the area was as hostile and chaotic as it's being made out to be, why did it look so calm? Why were officers casually waking around? Why were individuals handcuffed and left to sit on the sidewalk if the situation was so dangerous?

They did notice him by the cars, though and that's when they moved on him. I think more than a few people here that have been in similar situations can tell you everything seems calm one second, then all hell breaks loose the next. The guy was in the wrong. My initial post, if you look at it was blaming the cops also, but as I looked at the video more and thought about it, it was just about all on the owner.

 Necroshea wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I never understand why people blame the police right away.

Honestly, it sounds like you have very little experience dealing with police officers. I've traveled around the states quite a bit, and it's pretty much the same everywhere you go.

Outside of a a couple speeding tickets, I've never had any confrontations with the police directly. However, I've seen them abuse their station more than a few times, and that's more than a few times too much. I get that you love cops and all that they do, but if you honestly don't see why some people dislike and outright hate cops, and for damn legitimate reasons, then you either need to get out more or start facing the facts.

In my experiences, I've seen and encountered a mixture of incredibly professional police officers and individuals who probably should find a different career path, I have certainly witnessed abuses of power by many individuals with a varied aray of chosen professions. I'm very pro union but there are always two sides of the coin, I respect all that organized labor has done for the betterment of society but there are some situations like with education and policing as examples (I'm sure there are others) where a union can make it difficult to get rid of underperforming/dysfunctional individuals. I don't really understand characterizing anyone as anti-police or a "cop hater", you can disapprove of any individual’s actions without having it negatively effect your perception of that individual's chosen profession. That's basically saying anyone can feth up.

Machiavelli was kind of a douche but I agree with him to an extent on this point

"It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles."

I once was assaulted walking to the corner store, I had a beer bottle broken over my head and was subsequently stabbed in the neck with what was left. It didn't nick any arteries but it was a deep laceration and I lost a lot of blood and a chunk of my right scalp.The police response time was incredible and they caught every individual involved in the attack within minutes of it's occurence, one of the officers even managed to recover the top of the beer bottle with prints. Believe me when I say I've witnessed professional police and paramedic work first hand and have the utmost respect for it.

I'm pretty sure that filming is NOT legitimate grounds for arrest. Police who act outside of the boundaries of the law need to be held to the same standard as ordinary citizens. Bad shoot? Catch a murder charge. Shoot a dog when it could have been avoided? Should be no different than if I decide to waste some lady's purse dog for no reason at all.

Think what screwed the Rottweiller mind up. During the video watch the dog near that spot on the ground. Kept sniffing the same spot and marked it. Think another female dog in heat pee'd there. Dog still has his nuts. Can see them flapping as the dog does the kick chicken

I've a feeling the ones walking out the building saw how close Imadummy was to the vehicles

At the 3:00 mark you can see that Salmon was possibly checking vehicles. Looking through the driver windows for the upper barrel of the shotguns.
At the 2:53 mark you see two officers looking to have come out the building. Salmon heading towards suspect.
At the 2:25 mark you see the officer closest to the road visualy glance check if Salmon was abreast of them
At the 2:10 mark you can see the two Officers reacting to verbal. They looked at the suspect, looked back towards the building that was being secured, and then moved towards the suspect.
At the 1:52 mark one of the officers started heading towards him but went back to his battle buddy

Why was there no LEO on that end of the street....

Legal shot when the dog lunged, bad arrest though. Should have just let dumb ass be.

It's unclear if the dog even snapped, though he definitely lunged. Mine would likely do the same if I was shouting with a bunch of dudes around me, and one of them tried to grab for his leash. And he's not a Rottweiler, just a standard bear-fighting boxer.

Couldn't hear a word the man said. So I can't really judge the situation.

Considering this is American police i'll just file this under "They did it because he was black."