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Is that model printed FUD?

 insaniak wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
I don't get all these people complaining about the prototype. It's a 3D print. 3D printers are still in their infant years and won't make anything that looks as good as hard plastic or resin for half a decade, if not more. There are higher quality 3D prints available, but they're very expensive for a prototype. This is what 3D printing looks like, folks.

No, this is what bad 3D printing looks like. Look at any Raging Heroes pre-release to see what 3D printing can look like.

The fact is, the prototype is currently all that we have to go on as to the final quality of the actual miniature. And if they're creating a master from a 3D print, and that's the best quality print they can do, that doesn't bode well for the final product...

Did you stop to think that this might not be the only print they had done? It's very likely that they did do a higher quality one, but they're using it to make the castings. You wouldn't want to paint up the one that you're casting from. That would be stupid. They probably had this cheaper one done as a mock up with the paintjob as a test to see how it'll look once painted. The toy industry does this all the time too, doing hand painted test samples and rough mock-ups to show the concept off.

Please tell me where to get better 3d printing done. I haven't found anyone who can print better and I have tried 6 different places! Everyone seems to have the same issues no matter the medium.

PM Sent

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Sent you a PM....

I bet you did, buddy. I did a doubletake when they referred to themselves as DFG myself.

Shepherd23 wrote:
Please tell me where to get better 3d printing done. I haven't found anyone who can print better and I have tried 6 different places! Everyone seems to have the same issues no matter the medium.

I'm curious about this as well. How is FUD by Shapeways for example? I also heard the guys behind Age of Tyrants work with a company who can print in the microns accurate!

 Ouze wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Sent you a PM....

I bet you did, buddy. I did a doubletake when they referred to themselves as DFG myself.

Yup, this exactly. Defiance Games not really a DFG... maybe DEF-G

 Barzam wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
I don't get all these people complaining about the prototype. It's a 3D print. 3D printers are still in their infant years and won't make anything that looks as good as hard plastic or resin for half a decade, if not more. There are higher quality 3D prints available, but they're very expensive for a prototype. This is what 3D printing looks like, folks.

No, this is what bad 3D printing looks like. Look at any Raging Heroes pre-release to see what 3D printing can look like.

The fact is, the prototype is currently all that we have to go on as to the final quality of the actual miniature. And if they're creating a master from a 3D print, and that's the best quality print they can do, that doesn't bode well for the final product...

Did you stop to think that this might not be the only print they had done? It's very likely that they did do a higher quality one, but they're using it to make the castings. You wouldn't want to paint up the one that you're casting from. That would be stupid. They probably had this cheaper one done as a mock up with the paintjob as a test to see how it'll look once painted. The toy industry does this all the time too, doing hand painted test samples and rough mock-ups to show the concept off.

If they do have a better unpainted 3D print, then they should show that one instead! Raging Heroes shows their master 3D Prints unpainted all the time and they look amazing! I think it's entirely possible that my Form 1 3D Printer could do a better job than the print pictured in the OP.

Here's just one example of a company that can do Much better than what was shown here: http://www.moddler.com/portfolio

The real issue with the 3D print pictured in the OP is the finish. Copying the image from the OP for reference:



You have to have a higher quality offering than that to get my money via a kickstarter these days... I don't know the exact cost of what moddler would charge to make a better print of this, but if they're not willing to invest that smaller amount upfront, it doesn't make me want to invest either. This is not mold tooling we're talking about, it's a single representative 3D print.

You guys are seriously underestimating the technology that is available, and even fairly affordable, for 3d printing now! Sorry for the mini-rant... but 3D printing is something I'm fairly passionate about

 Malika2 wrote:

Shepherd23 wrote:
Please tell me where to get better 3d printing done. I haven't found anyone who can print better and I have tried 6 different places! Everyone seems to have the same issues no matter the medium.

I'm curious about this as well. How is FUD by Shapeways for example? I also heard the guys behind Age of Tyrants work with a company who can print in the microns accurate!

I'd put the detail at slightly worse than the old WOTC prepainted minis if you get a perfect print (at least as of about a year ago with FUD when I last used it). You have no way of controlling the orientation they place your design in the "pot" so to speak as they print multiple designs in one run. You'd think that they'd put the parts facing down, you know, facing down but they don't and if your most detailed surface is in the wrong direction you end up with half your model with a gritty surface texture similar to a bad primer job that is impossible to get off.

Shepherd23 wrote:
Please tell me where to get better 3d printing done. I haven't found anyone who can print better and I have tried 6 different places! Everyone seems to have the same issues no matter the medium.

Assuming you're looking for a 3D print for a production mini

Have a read of what Andrew Rae of Statueque Miniatures writes about it, http://www.khorosho-productions.blogspot.co.uk/

he uses Timo Laumann who run a Envisiontec Perfactory machine which produces a superior print (not as cheap as many but really high quality), and I know quite a few of the boutique resin companies who work with 3D sculpts who go to places with the same machine

(but this sort of this is not going to be affordable for printing off a 3D file just to game with)

 RiTides wrote:


Sorry for the mini-rant... but 3D printing is something I'm fairly passionate about

Oh yes, you should see the thread in the DCM forum... on and on about it!

I kid, I kid. I'm just surprised by the relatively good results you got from your Form 1 after just a few days of playing with it. Is it a "sintering" process you have going on?

 Makaleth wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Sent you a PM....

I bet you did, buddy. I did a doubletake when they referred to themselves as DFG myself.

Yup, this exactly. Defiance Games not really a DFG... maybe DEF-G

All worked out... no drama.

 Barzam wrote:
Did you stop to think that this might not be the only print they had done? It's very likely that they did do a higher quality one, but they're using it to make the castings. You wouldn't want to paint up the one that you're casting from. That would be stupid. .

No, I didn't stop to think about that. Because if they have a higher quality print, and chose to show photos of the lower quality one instead, that would be stupid. Unpainted pics of a high quality scan would have been infinitely better marketing than the grainy thing they showed here.

^QFT. Although the community appreciates nicely painted examples, this was just too chalky to be taken seriously.

This may be an odd thing to note, but if you were doing a massive shift in leadership, in artists and virtually everything else, why would you keep the name Defiance Games, which has been virtually synonymous with boondoggle, rather than change the name to reflect a new business. I mean, I get wanting name recognition, but how far do you expect a name with so much negativity riding on it to get you? Everyone recognizes the name Brutus, but you probably don't want to name your son that. I should hope that a change in leadership creates a change in direction, and I hate to say, I am feeling something shockingly close to excitement.

Well, someone is willing to give Defiance another chance. They've already doubled their initial funding goal in two days. Not bad.

Still not sure if I really want to get suckered into this. Should I really take that chance?

 warboss wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

Shepherd23 wrote:
Please tell me where to get better 3d printing done. I haven't found anyone who can print better and I have tried 6 different places! Everyone seems to have the same issues no matter the medium.

I'm curious about this as well. How is FUD by Shapeways for example? I also heard the guys behind Age of Tyrants work with a company who can print in the microns accurate!

I'd put the detail at slightly worse than the old WOTC prepainted minis if you get a perfect print (at least as of about a year ago with FUD when I last used it). You have no way of controlling the orientation they place your design in the "pot" so to speak as they print multiple designs in one run. You'd think that they'd put the parts facing down, you know, facing down but they don't and if your most detailed surface is in the wrong direction you end up with half your model with a gritty surface texture similar to a bad primer job that is impossible to get off.

So what would you recommend that can both deliver the quality and still be at a reasonable price?

 Barzam wrote:
Well, someone is willing to give Defiance another chance. They've already doubled their initial funding goal in two days. Not bad.

Still not sure if I really want to get suckered into this. Should I really take that chance?

At $25 a set I would assume that retail price, even directly from Defiance, won't be too much worse (bug set currently list at about $30). From someplace like The Warstore I suspect you'll get them for the kickstarter $25 if/when they are actually in stock.

Even if you had to pay the full $30 to get them from Defiance if/when they were actually in stock you may be better off than letting Defiance hold your $25 indefinitely on the chance they will deliver a quality product (or ANY product).

Of course, at higher pledge levels the pricing gets better, but I still suspect discount retailers online will come close to meeting those prices.

Just my take.

 CptJake wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
Well, someone is willing to give Defiance another chance. They've already doubled their initial funding goal in two days. Not bad.

Still not sure if I really want to get suckered into this. Should I really take that chance?

At $25 a set I would assume that retail price, even directly from Defiance, won't be too much worse (bug set currently list at about $30). From someplace like The Warstore I suspect you'll get them for the kickstarter $25 if/when they are actually in stock.

Plus 6.95 for shipping.

I'll gladly pay that "$6.95 Guaranteed to be in Stock When Ordered Tax" down the road!

Cue angry note from Tony, explaining how "they" stole his company from him.

New management or not, Defiance hasn't enough clout for me to even think about giving them money in advance.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll gladly pay that "$6.95 Guaranteed to be in Stock When Ordered Tax" down the road!

Versus their usual big banner, "In Stock!" before the mold is even made or the miniature finalized...

That's why when an online retailer lists them as "in stock", I'm more enclined to believe them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said, I'm not sure I want to pay 25$ of shipping from the Warstore.

Wouldn't it be great if Defiance pulled their crap together and in a year started churning out quality kits.

Then we'd know it was Tony phoenix magic. Start a company, grind it down, and then leave it in a state of disarray, only to have it rise from the ashes into something great.

Thanks for Wargames Factory, Tony!

I'm not as negative as others, but I'll wait and see, with these hardsuit renders. If they can't be bothered to pony up the cash for a nice, well-done prototype, and can't be bothered pony up the cash to have it painted professionally, why should I buy it.

I wont pledge to the kickstarter, tehre's too much risk there.

Also, we still haven't found out what happened to Tony.

Regardless, I'd like to see these made, and I'd like to see Hudson's Bugs redone as a plastic sprue. If Kingdom Death can have plastic sprues made straight off of being a kickstarter, these guys have as good a chance as anyone.

Years from now, we'll look at this as being the halcyon days of wargaming, when anyone with a dream and a little bit of cash could get a kickstarter and make a kit.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 agnosto wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll gladly pay that "$6.95 Guaranteed to be in Stock When Ordered Tax" down the road!

Versus their usual big banner, "In Stock!" before the mold is even made or the miniature finalized...

..I meant 'in stock' from the Warstore, of course - sorry!

 chris_valera wrote:

Regardless, I'd like to see these made, and I'd like to see Hudson's Bugs redone as a plastic sprue. If Kingdom Death can have plastic sprues made straight off of being a kickstarter, these guys have as good a chance as anyone.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I've seen you mention KD having plastic sprues straight off being a kickstarter in a couple of places now - while that is somewhat true you are skipping over the fact that they raised over 2 million dollars and so had significant cash to throw around to meet their goal. That kind of money opens up a lot more options than the 4-5 figures we see from most wargaming kickstarters. Plastic is still very difficult to accomplish.

 Alpharius wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll gladly pay that "$6.95 Guaranteed to be in Stock When Ordered Tax" down the road!

Versus their usual big banner, "In Stock!" before the mold is even made or the miniature finalized...

..I meant 'in stock' from the Warstore, of course - sorry!

Oh, no. I understood you; I should have been more clear that I was referring to DG.

German Panzer mecha goal has been met. I'm all for some of these since they're supposed to be hard plastic.

Defiance Games can always use PDC Gaming. They said they were open to casting for other companies.

 legoburner wrote:
I've seen you mention KD having plastic sprues straight off being a kickstarter in a couple of places now - while that is somewhat true

Some what true? It is true.

 legoburner wrote:
you are skipping over the fact that they raised over 2 million dollars and so had significant cash to throw around to meet their goal. That kind of money opens up a lot more options than the 4-5 figures we see from most wargaming kickstarters. Plastic is still very difficult to accomplish.

Alright, so they raised a ton of cash, allowing them to tool in plastic. Doesn't change the fact that Battletech is a veteran game, but still limping along with sculpts from the 80s. Infinity has a devoted fanbase as well.

If Infinity or Battletech came up with some strong concepts, had enough concept art and proof-of-concpet, and attracted enough backers, they could tool in plastic as well.

Defiance Games' repuatation works against it, in this regard. Not to many people will be eager to sign up for this merry-go-round again, and I doubt with their reputation they will attract enough backers. But if a few projects get completed on time, and on budget, or the concept is strong enough, they could tool in plastic as well.

As I said before, nothing is stopping them.

If people really went nuts over these hardsuits (they really are quite popular) and they raised enough cash, they could tool in plastic.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com