Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 legoburner wrote:

 chris_valera wrote:

Regardless, I'd like to see these made, and I'd like to see Hudson's Bugs redone as a plastic sprue. If Kingdom Death can have plastic sprues made straight off of being a kickstarter, these guys have as good a chance as anyone.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I've seen you mention KD having plastic sprues straight off being a kickstarter in a couple of places now - while that is somewhat true you are skipping over the fact that they raised over 2 million dollars and so had significant cash to throw around to meet their goal. That kind of money opens up a lot more options than the 4-5 figures we see from most wargaming kickstarters. Plastic is still very difficult to accomplish.

Agreed! Plastic is still far off for most companies.

 chris_valera wrote:

If people really went nuts over these hardsuits (they really are quite popular) and they raised enough cash, they could tool in plastic.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

People did go nuts for them... around 2010 or 2011 when they were first shown. Clearly that significant of a delay along with the subsequent "As the Mould Turns" soap opera drama has blunted interest somewhat.

The initial cost of tooling is a small fraction of the requirements to have plastic toys done. Just because someone gets 10's of thousands in a kickstarter doesn't mean that they can do plastic. You still have to contend with huge minimum initial orders and reorders. You need to pay for shipping from china (and the morality of producing in china if that's your thing), then you need to pay to warehouse all that stock until it sells.

After all this is considered, there is still that pesky little fact that plastic minis have limitations and some models aren't best produced in this medium. Maybe some companies stay with metal because they like the better detail. Plastic isn't always the answer.

Next, have you considered the economy of sales? If a company produces a set in plastic, they need to sell A LOT more of that plastic before they make a profit. Most companies in today's market won't sell that for years. So they need to pay even more to warehouse all that plastic. Resin and pewter are virtually a make to order with little warehousing needed. It is just more cost effective for most companies to NOT do plastic. There are very few exceptions to this.

Anyone who says that just because someone can afford to produce in plastic should do it is lacking all the facts.

Well, new stretch goals were added for additional left arm weapon options @$10k (which it's nearly met at this time) and a Heavy Weapon Hardsuit team at $12,500.

I'd say people are more than happy to try supporting them on this one. I've decided I will give them one more chance and I'll back at $65. I do want those German Mecha.

Can someone see if you can get an answer on KS as to Tony's current involvement, please?

If they don't answer that question, you are all taking a larger risk than you would otherwise be...

~Eric

I'd never fund it, and as said that prototype scares me away. However, I did get a pack of their marines, and have found them very useful for guard bits and conversions, especially their armored legs. Plus they are fairly cheap models. Whatever happened to their Germans?

If people want to fund it this early, so be it. I'm happy that they're helping bring that to the store shelf where I can evaluate it personally before buying.

 Taarnak wrote:
Can someone see if you can get an answer on KS as to Tony's current involvement, please?

If they don't answer that question, you are all taking a larger risk than you would otherwise be...

~Eric

You could always just email them and ask them yourself. Their email is readily available and public knowledge. If you already have and recited no response, then ignore this message.

 chris_valera wrote:
--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

All you ever do is troll Defiance threads. There's a reason they banned you from their Facebook page.

Regardless of how many times you think they kicked your dog, if you hate the company that much, just ignore it.

The size looks to be about right for centurion proxies...I can see people converting the weapons from that set onto these things...I know that is love to see that

I backed it. I like the look of the suits. I'd pay $4 each for them, from a vending machine and at the quality shown, without balking.

Tony stepping down from business decisions makes me feel about 500% more confident in this project. I'm not sure what his decision making role was, but his interactions with the gaming community sure made him seem like a loose cannon.

In e-mails, Tony never struck as an intentionally bad guy, I feel he is getting a lot of heat for unlucky decisions and or seeing something new to try before working out some bugs in the production processes. I guess I got lucky or just timed my UAMC MArine purchase right as I had no delays or anything. I did note the delays in Bugs, other marine orders, and same with bugs and PZG orders.

At some point though, at the very least putting product for sale as "in stock" while any reasonable person in his place would have had to be aware that not only was that a lie, but no proven manner of production sufficient to ensure speedy delivery was in place either, qualifies as trading in bad faith.
And really, that's the least of my issues with his business dealings from a purely legal point of view.
A much lighter standard than that is to be applied in considering whether someone appears to be a 'reliable' (much higher qualification than "not in bad faith") trader, and he fails that miserably. Sorry, he is an intentionally bad guy. Not as his purpose in life, but he has to be sufficiently cognisant of his own incompetence for his actions to be considered "intentional" for all intents and purposes, IMO.

 shasolenzabi wrote:
In e-mails, Tony never struck as an intentionally bad guy, I feel he is getting a lot of heat for unlucky decisions and or seeing something new to try before working out some bugs in the production processes. I guess I got lucky or just timed my UAMC MArine purchase right as I had no delays or anything. I did note the delays in Bugs, other marine orders, and same with bugs and PZG orders.

I wouldn't call repeated failure to meet stated time lines and quality levels 'unlucky'. I wouldn't call repeatedly accepting payment for preorders then failing to deliver 'unlucky'. I wouldn't call repeatedly stating or at least implying product was In Stock when in fact it was NOT in stock as 'unlucky'. I can think of several words to describe these, but 'unlucky' isn't one of them.

Then you can add in the 'blame everyone else and publically trash them' aspect of his existence.

Aww Jake, no you're just being entirely fair to him. You know he doesn't take well to that?

Well, at any rate, they just passed their latest stretch goal 12.897$ dollars as of right now.

This has the potential of seriously going into delay territory at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wouldn't it be ironic if they had gotten rid of Tony completely and went back to Wargames Factory for plastic production?

 warboss wrote:

 chris_valera wrote:

If people really went nuts over these hardsuits (they really are quite popular) and they raised enough cash, they could tool in plastic.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

People did go nuts for them... around 2010 or 2011 when they were first shown. Clearly that significant of a delay along with the subsequent "As the Mould Turns" soap opera drama has blunted interest somewhat.

As someone who wasn't around for those shenanigans, any chance there's a thread I might be able to read to bring myself up to speed. There's a lot of figurative knowing glances bouncing around, but not much in terms of detail as to what exactly everyone is so wary about.

Edit: oh wow, 57 pages. This could take a while.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Well, at any rate, they just passed their latest stretch goal 12.897$ dollars as of right now.

This has the potential of seriously going into delay territory at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wouldn't it be ironic if they had gotten rid of Tony completely and went back to Wargames Factory for plastic production?

From a quality standpoint, that would be...great news!

Seriously!

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Well, at any rate, they just passed their latest stretch goal 12.897$ dollars as of right now.

This has the potential of seriously going into delay territory at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wouldn't it be ironic if they had gotten rid of Tony completely and went back to Wargames Factory for plastic production?

It'd be nice if it didn't go into delay territory seeing as it sounds like things are ready to go into production fairly soon. Let's hope they stick to their timetables.

And it'd be awesome if they went back to WGF for the plastic production!

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

Wouldn't it be ironic if they had gotten rid of Tony completely and went back to Wargames Factory for plastic production?

Not only would it be ironic, the suits would be hard plastic and engineered well.

As someone who ordered the original marines, the delays afterward were pretty damn terrible. I ordered through TWS and not direct because it's a helluva lot easier to trust them than a startup who after much delay produced their first plastics.

Waited a few months after pre-ordering and much shenannigans about orders going out, cancelled it. The plastic marines weren't bad and I've got 4 boxes of them(a buck a model wasn't bad!), but they seemed to completely fall apart on delivery and seemed to send whatever they could make to customers what felt like at random.

When even the die-hards started to doubt, the forums got shuttered. I think that's when I finally cancelled my bugs order. If you're willing to take a big risk with your money, I'd put vegas kinds of odds on seeing a return on it. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that DefG has earned the skepticism people feel even if Tony is gone or at least away from decision making.

I wish them luck, but I wouldn't direct order from them.

 Civik wrote:


When even the die-hards started to doubt, the forums got shuttered. I think that's when I finally cancelled my bugs order. If you're willing to take a big risk with your money, I'd put vegas kinds of odds on seeing a return on it. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that DefG has earned the skepticism people feel even if Tony is gone or at least away from PUBLIC decision making.

I wish them luck, but I wouldn't direct order from them.

We don't really know what his role is at this point. Just that his name is not being used.

Considering there haven't been any angry rants on the web about how his company was stolen from him (yet again), I'd bet Tony is still in it somehow

Which is nothing to inspire confidence, as noted above.

They've got a new stretch goal for female Marines.

Defiance Games wrote:STRETCH GOAL

$10,000

If we make over $10,000 with this project we will be releasing a Kickstarter exclusive LEFT ARM WEAPON OPTION for the UAMC HARDSUITS. This will include the equivalent of one box of Hardsuit arms.

Limited edition squad loadouts. Kickstarter exclusives sink to a new low.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Defiance Games wrote:STRETCH GOAL

$10,000

If we make over $10,000 with this project we will be releasing a Kickstarter exclusive LEFT ARM WEAPON OPTION for the UAMC HARDSUITS. This will include the equivalent of one box of Hardsuit arms.

Limited edition squad loadouts. Kickstarter exclusives sink to a new low.

I don't see how that is a big issue. Kickstarter exclusive models (or parts thereof) certainly isn't anything new. If anything, the lack of a popular official game to use them in would less any blow to non-backers down the line as they have no effect except visual. Even if there is a game to use these minis with, there is nothing stopping the company nor is it unfair if they release alternate versions of the KS exclusive weapons down the line.

Ooooh. Female marines. Yes, they're more expensive than the males, but if they are released in June/July, they might come before Dreamforge's Black Widows... I'm glad I didn't sell my squad of UAMC marines yet.

It's odd that their marque pic is that chalky close up when this picture has apparently been floating around for at least a few months.

I kind of hope their funding doesn't get much higher than the next stretch goal, so their obligations don't exceed their capabilities. Mantic's reputation has taken a hit from their sub-par KOW releases, and Defiance can't afford another big failure.