Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It would be nice if SW became more dark and dropped challenged comedy drones.

 Maddermax wrote:
JJ Abrams? Welp, there goes my positivity about the project.

Good thing opinions mean nothing on the internets

Good news - at least they will be fun to watch unlike the dire prequals

Really enjoyed Into Darkness so looking forward to seeing how he puts the SW films back on track for fun

 Grey Templar wrote:
The biggest trajedy for me was when Windu died and that whiny bi-, I mean, Anakin turned.

Talk about the lamest death scene ever, and a total 360 turn.

First you cut off his hand and help kill him. Then you say "what have I done?" And then you go "let's kill them Jedi fethers!"

I'd argue that Mauls death was worse. He single handedly kicked 2 Jedi's assess without breaking a sweat, the when he got bored, killed the Jedi master, and quickly took out Obi Wan without batting an eye..... THEN suddenly gets his RTard on and gloats like a moron, let's obi want super flip behind himself and get cut in half.......... er...... WHAT?!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gossipmeng wrote:It would be nice if SW became more dark and dropped challenged comedy drones.

Mr Morden wrote:Good news - at least they will be fun to watch unlike the dire prequals

Really enjoyed Into Darkness so looking forward to seeing how he puts the SW films back on track for fun

Dark or fun... either one I'm looking forward to.

The Prequels did bring us one of the best pieces of Star Wars soundtrack:

Then there is the Yoda is apparently a total coward and at the first sign of trouble goes and hides in a swamp..............weak

I don't think knowing when to withdrawal makes one a coward

 KingCracker wrote:
I don't think knowing when to withdrawal makes one a coward

Withdraw? I prefer to think of it as advancing in the direction of a better picture

Some bits of Episode one though...




At 6:54, I just love that bit and I'm not 100% sure why. The dive into the teeth of the guns just seems so damn cool. How it gets hit and just comes apart

The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.

King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.

 Ahtman wrote:
The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.

King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.

Yeah, it certainly should have been more personal, with a focus on personal betrayals. Too much time was spent with the characters talking about the fight they had with the trade federation no-one really cared about, and too little time was spent on relationships that would be torn apart in the end.

I think that's one part that gives me some hope, Star Wars is all about the personal melodrama and Abrams loves to put that stuff first and foremost in his movies.

The laser sword battles were pretty cool, everything else sucked. We walked out of Attack of the Clones.

 KingCracker wrote:
I don't think knowing when to withdrawal makes one a coward

It was not as if he retreated to try and come back with whatever force he could muster amongst the thousands of planets. That I feel would have been a withdrawl............. if its a withdrawl it lasts what 30 years? Thats a long time to hide and do nothing!

Running off alone and burying your head in a jungle hole sure seemed like cowardice to me? He lost one lightsaber duel and is on the next ship to the back of beyond in the hope that everyone will forget he existed.

No lets try and rally the republic, lets actually try and save some people - you know like being a Jedi Knight - no I am more than happy to run and hide.

It seemed to me that Yoda talked big but when it came to it - he had nothing............. He should have practiced what he preached!

Also I thought a great bit of writting was Anakin happy to leave his mother as a slave.................right..................

 Mr Morden wrote:
if its a withdrawl it lasts what 30 years? Thats a long time to hide and do nothing!

At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.

Even if these films are written and directed by Michael Bay, they would still be better than the absolute unremitting shower of poop that was the 'first' three films. I have to admit that I don't really enjoy the original films that much.

With these films I am hoping for a clean break in terms of setting and style... I think Abrams can deliver on style as I did enjoy both of the new ST films (the first more than the second) and I hope that they are taking the entire story in a new direction.

 Ahtman wrote:
At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.

The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.

So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.

Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.

That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.

 sebster wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.

The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.

So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.

Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.

That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.

For once, I think we're in agreement!

The mess that was Revenge of the Sith, with its wooden acting and poor plot, was probably the biggest, steaming pile of Bantha fodder that I have ever seen! The scene where Anakin becomes Vader had me cringing so much, that even after all these years, my face is still red!

There is a danger that people are setting up Abrams to be the new white hope of Hollywood. Has everybody forgotten that car crash of a TV series called Lost? Or the mess he made of into darkness? And to think that some people were saying that it's better than wrath of Khan!

I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.

Make that a .5 star* film and you just described Avatar more than Abrams films.


*There are some bigger people in the film but really it only focused on Tatum, who wasn't that big before Avatar, and we all know the only good character was Quatrich.

 Ahtman wrote:

*There are some bigger people in the film but really it only focused on Tatum

Tatum was in Avatar? I don't remember that.

I think he has him mixed up with Sam Worthington.

A bit like mixing up Mortimer mouse and pinky, really.

 chromedog wrote:
I think he has him mixed up with Sam Worthington.

A bit like mixing up Mortimer mouse and pinky, really.

I get the two mixed up frequently. I don't find either all that interesting, though Tatum was good in Haywire. I can never hate someone who smashes a mug of hot coffee in someone's face.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 sebster wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.

The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.

So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.

Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.

That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.

For once, I think we're in agreement!

The mess that was Revenge of the Sith, with its wooden acting and poor plot, was probably the biggest, steaming pile of Bantha fodder that I have ever seen! The scene where Anakin becomes Vader had me cringing so much, that even after all these years, my face is still red!

There is a danger that people are setting up Abrams to be the new white hope of Hollywood. Has everybody forgotten that car crash of a TV series called Lost? Or the mess he made of into darkness? And to think that some people were saying that it's better than wrath of Khan!

I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.

The thing about the prequels is that almost everything in them was great - good production, good effects, good cast for the most part, great setting and design that expanded on the originals. The things that let it down, really let it down, was the writing and plot. However good the rest of the production is, if the writing is poor, the movie will be too. Same thing with the new Star Trek movie to my mind - brilliant production and great casting, piss poor writing and plot.

Now, for the new Star Wars movie, I know Disney is very competent at making movies, and what comes out will be excellently produced. The thing that'll make it into either an "eh" movie that's soon forgotten or a great movie that really adds to the setting will be almost completely in the writing. And there's nothing much in JJ Abrams back catalogue that really inspires confidence in his abilities as a writer.

 Ahtman wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
I think he has him mixed up with Sam Worthington.

A bit like mixing up Mortimer mouse and pinky, really.

I get the two mixed up frequently. I don't find either all that interesting, though Tatum was good in Haywire. I can never hate someone who smashes a mug of hot coffee in someone's face.

Watch Gettin' Square. Its a pretty good movie with Worthington in it and he's good in it (from memory).

good production, good effects

Good production, not great. To many sycophants around Lucas and to much navel gazing by Lucas to elevate it. It was certainly an expensive production.

good effects

Time has been unkind. The original King Kong has a greater sense of verisimilitude than the first two prequels. Now it just looks like a bunch of people in front of green screen, in the worst way possible.

good cast for the most part

That gave awful performances, almost universally. Though this highlights something you didn't mention, which was direction, and that was quite awful.

great setting

Well it was a preestablished setting, and one they went and made bland and unengaging. They turned a gold mine into a turd factory.

I've been reading the original screenplay for Star Wars and my god is it awful. He needs people to filter his ideas through.

 d-usa wrote:
The Prequels did bring us one of the best pieces of Star Wars soundtrack:

Can we really credit the prequels for that though? I mean it's just proof that John Williams is the MAN.

 Ahtman wrote:
The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.

King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.

I like everything about this.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

Can we really credit the prequels for that though? I mean it's just proof that John Williams is the MAN.

Any opportunity for him to showcase his musical genius is appreciated

 Ahtman wrote:

good production, good effects

Good production, not great. To many sycophants around Lucas and to much navel gazing by Lucas to elevate it. It was certainly an expensive production.

good effects

Time has been unkind. The original King Kong has a greater sense of verisimilitude than the first two prequels. Now it just looks like a bunch of people in front of green screen, in the worst way possible.

good cast for the most part

That gave awful performances, almost universally. Though this highlights something you didn't mention, which was direction, and that was quite awful.

great setting

Well it was a preestablished setting, and one they went and made bland and unengaging. They turned a gold mine into a turd factory.

I've been reading the original screenplay for Star Wars and my god is it awful. He needs people to filter his ideas through.

Now I'm agreeing with Ahtman!

You've got is spot on regarding casting. Look at the role call Lucas had at his disposal: Ian McDiarmid (top UK Shakespearian actor) Natalie Portman (another good actress) Liam Neeson!!! And Samuel 'The Man' Jackson. And some guy called Ewan!

Point is, how did Lucas conspire to feth up that wealth of acting talent? Answer: urine poor scripts!

My major complaint about the prequels is episode 3's rapid change from Anikan to Vader.

In episode 4 luke is what 16? 18? I always had the impression that it took the majority of that time for Vadar to get his bad reputation and grow into the evil guy we know when he first walks onto the Tantive IV. But no thats not how it happens. It is almost instantaneous from "oh no I am a goody toshoe Jedi" to "I am the most evil thing ever and it feels great lets slaughter some children."

I think it would have been better if at the end of episode 3 he was half Vader and half Anikan still. We all know what he is going to become but letting us know that it takes some time to become that way lends more credence to there being good in him then Padme saying it as she dies of a broken heart (read neck).

 Seaward wrote:
The laser sword battles were pretty cool, everything else sucked. We walked out of Attack of the Clones.

Jango Fett was the ONLY good part of that movie. And honestly the light saber battles got fracking ridiculous the further the prequels went on. I mean the Vader vs. Obi Wan show down in number 3 is yawn inducing. Really Lucas.... a whole fracking planet for a sword fight? I'm pretty sure if they were THAT skilled it would of ended like the original movies show down between them. Very calculated and almost slow looking for a flaw in the others form. Not a 30 minute romp all over the frigging place

Yes a good laser duel-original Star Wars for something masters might do, or ESB for two experts. Having the fights go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on please just die already.