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Good Luck at the ECT, heck if you have enough time could you make a picture batrep?

Ps @flingitnow,

Some people may have problems understanding your english because it (being english) is not their first language so lets darkavenger the benifit of the doubt.

I'm pretty sure Darkavenger is actually English. Though I could be wrong so let's give him the benefit of the doubt. It is just frustrating when some one asks you to show your working you do and then they tell you are wrong, you explain they don't listen and keep telling you that you are wrong. It wasnt even complicated maths which was the most frustrating part. You know 60/6 is hardly mind bogglingly difficult is it.

But back on topic I'm also keen to hear how you get on in Tourneys. I always like it when someone takes something a bit different to a tournament and does well with it. Shakes up peoples thinking.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Sorry for derailing thread I didn't want you parking your Gor into Witch elves and expecting them not all to die which they would (even with Wyssans) and for some reason Darkavenger wanted to argue maths he didn't understand.

I think your list is fairly solid for beast men. I think you lack a bit of chaff. If you're convinced by it and do well with it take it to tournaments and see how you go. Good luck!

If witch elves hold popular, I don't see much choice but investing in a lot of chariots. I've lost very solid combat blocks by flank charging witches with cauldrons. Now I redirect, flee, or shoot them, though with beasts massed chariots has some appeal.

-Matt

The massive amount of chaff available to a beasts player is the answer to a witch horde.

With the huge frenzy modifier, they should be pretty easy charge bait. Feed the horde a few units of hounds, harpies, or razors and attack what you can else where.

I guess chariots work as well, but unless you hit the unit with 5 chariots simultaneously, I fear they will all explode in 1-2 rounds of combat...

Similarly, the same chariots could be used to support other elements in your list in taking out whatever else the DE general has brought along...Though Warlocks remain stupid good regardless.

Oh jesus, what a shitstorm I started!

My purpose in mentioning the witch star was to give an example of a unit in the meta that is quite popular, not particularly expensive, and will create serious problems for any thing that your list were to throw into it head-to-head. The cauldronstar is only 760 points, so try to think of how many points you'd have to spend to deal with that?

Leading it around with chaff is really the best way of dealing with it. Yeah you can try to buff your unit up to survive the witches, but don't forget that they have a magic phase as well (and in DE case have warlocks casting soulblight onto you in addition to the wizard).

Chaff allows for board control, and without any shooting you're going to have trouble with that since they can just chaff up your big blocks and engage you at their leisure. It's a big problem for an army like beastmen that relies on big blocks of infantry; they're really easy to screw up with chaff.

On an unrelated note, the witch-star is pretty much the funniest thing to send the hitback doombull into. All he's gotta do is tank that death hag for one round and he'll chew through her and the rest of the unit and come out even stronger on the other side.

I don't know about you piraterobo, but I think my brain is all the wiser from reading the math behind witches screwing BM (review all of page 2).

As far as BM vs DE, remember there will still be other armies to fight and who knows, maybe that DE dude will lose vs dwarfs while you win vs empire, and you and the DE never have to fight!

Haha. That may be true...but it doesn't mean you shouldn't come prepared. When you don't have the tools to dismantle an army, you can at least bring the tools to soften the blow. Bring enough chaff and you can keep a unit like that tied up all game. Remember they're frenzied, so they HAVE to overrun. Chaff on your turn, they charge and overrun on theirs, you chaff on your turn, they chaff and overrun AGAIN.

Of course the DE have plenty of options for clearing out chaff, but that doesn't mean they'll be successful.

The alternative is that you end up having to throw one of your own expensive units head-to-head against the WE, in a match where they'll statistically come out ontop. Yeah you can whittle a witch star, but the vast bulk of its attacks are coming out of just the girls along the front. If the frenzystar has 21 witches to make it horde (plus 9 displaced by the cauldron), you're talking about 28 attacks from the witches in the front rank and 14 from the witches in behind. Reduce the unit in volume by 2/3rds and you've only reduced the number of attacks by 1/3rd. Kill off 2/3rds of your beastmen and see how far that gets 'em.

The trick is just to beat them in combat ONCE. That's all you need to do. Knock frenzy off 'em and suddenly it's a much less scary unit.

Wait a second.. The witch brew means they never lose their frenzy (that's how it was played vs me like 4 days after DE was released) but if hes got herdstone maybe he can just death mage them to pieces.

 Arbiter wrote:
Wait a second.. The witch brew means they never lose their frenzy (that's how it was played vs me like 4 days after DE was released) but if hes got herdstone maybe he can just death mage them to pieces.

IIRC, witch brew now gives another attack, and forces a -3 Ld on the witches test to restrain a charge.

I believe you are correct mat, so witches still get A4 base, even without the added frenzy but downside is they can get led off by chaff easily.