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I think that the Orks cause enough Chaos in their fighting that the Chaos gods just sit back and let them do their own thing. Why try to convert someone when they're already doing your work for you?

They exist. Just that Orks purge things that aren't Orky enough.

 sing your life wrote:
I don't think chaos has much to offer them. Orks like frightening, and they have a lot of fighting they can do already.

It has a lot to offer them, but Gork and Mork offer much the same for a lower price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dimreapa wrote:
A lot of people are throwing around this "immune" word. Immune is a dangerous word to use in fictional universes. A more accurate description is the word resistant. Even then, it depends heavily upon context. A case in point here is Khornate Stormboyz. Stormboyz are not like ordinary Orks. In fact, they aspire to things that are the deliberate and exact opposite of normal Ork behaviour: being disciplined, clean , uniformed, well-behaved etc. Stormboyz are more likely to turn because of this, but it's no certainty.

Some Orks may turn, but as said, it's a rarety. Orks are, largely, straightforward and vaguely similar. Most Boys are unambitious. Not every Ork wants to be the Boss, but being opportunistic they may exploit the opportunity if they get big enough to have a go for it. Few Orks deliberately set out to do anything, which means that most Chaos taint will be down to random circumstance.

It's worth also bearing in mind resonance. Waaagh Energy is a muddy affair, lots of people get it wrong. Usually it's over or underattributed. Either people have it do too much, or dismiss it entirely. Lots of people have it that Orks can make metal tubes fire bullets. Resonance doesn't work like that and Orks are neither that stupid or that irrational to make such an idea work (Madboyz on the other hand...). Whilst it won't on its own make Orks immune to Chaos, if Orks have been fighting against Chaos or have fought them before, they will be very hard to taint. Orks more naive of Chaos, or of a less orthodox disposition, like, say, Freebootas or Stormboyz could be easier targets.

Orks are mostly resistant because they don't have angst, doubt or any trouble with who they are. They know all they need to know and don't get stuck with meaningless questions about reality, the universe and everything. This apparently makes Orks the dumb ones for some reason. The Ork Gods are manifestations of Orky belief, which never suffers from doubt, and thus makes for the most powerful gods in the warp. They once ate Nurgle. Okay, in a myth. But the birth of Gork and Mork (upon the building of the first Ork Gargant, signalling the first Ork Waaagh) made the dead Emperor's eyes open in terror.

An dat, as an Ork would say, iz noffin'.

Resistant it is, or less prone to fall.

Fanatical devotion to Gork or Mork keeps one from being tempted by Chaos gitz, but it is not impossible


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anything can be corrupted, but for the Chaos gods, some things just aren't always worth their efforts.

The primarchs were specifically designed/engineered to resist temptation and corruption, but then when you make a demigod and put him in charge of a legion of other superhumans that represent and lead 1/20 of the forces of humanity, well it becomes very worth it for Chaos to try.


Chaos would gain little from converting a few ork littleuns. Converting a warboss might be more valueable, but then most warbosses have everythign they want.

Well, the wiki includes a quote that orks converting to chaos rarely goes well for both Chaos and the Orks. I'm not sure if that's quoted official material though. If it is, it could explain why you don't see Chaos bothering trying to convert them. After all, why would the chaos gods want to convert orks if it usually goes badly for both of them?

I never got the impression that Orks are immune as such. If anything they seem quite weak minded and easily to corrupt when the plot requires it. The impression I got is that Orks and Chaos just aren't that interested in each other. Their spirits don't shine in the warp like Eldar, or even humans, and they probably don't make the brightest or most dependable followers.

One turns to chaos to get advancement in a field in which one wants to advance.

Orks advance by getting bigger. Chaos can't really help with that.

All though an ork demon prince could be quite the thing.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
One turns to chaos to get advancement in a field in which one wants to advance.

Orks advance by getting bigger. Chaos can't really help with that.

I'm sorry to be a total bore and everything, but Orks don't just advance by getting bigger. That's just the more obvious manifestation of resonance, but through aggression, conflict and whatnot, they get tougher, smarter, quicker, you name it. Anything that makes them a more powerful opponent, and this presumably also includes psychic defence and psychic offensive abilities (this is after all, what causes Weirdboyz to have their powers, and what makes their heads explode). It also depends on the Orkoid. Orks mostly get bigger, although there are certainly examples of other influences on them through this process, especially on Oddboyz (Meks get more profound ideas, Doks get more crazed and so on). Whereas with Gretchin it appears to be resourcefulness, enhanced cunning, and luck. Squigs can turn into virtually anything that an Ork would want or need. Snotlings are a bit of a mystery. Good traps for Daemons though.

The thing about Orks not being good minions of Chaos is because Orks are truly chaotic and carefree. They don't really care enough about patron Gods to be particularly reliable, and they seldom abandon their own ethos. They are interested in power and strength, though. Much is made of Orks being xenophobic, but it's worth remembering that Orks appreciate opponents who put up a good fight. It wont stop them trying to kill them, but Orks are perfectly willing to point out a worthy foe (as Ghaz did with Yarrick, for instance). So it is possible that Orks may have some respect for Chaos Gods and the powers they can grant to their followers.

It's also worth pointing out that Orks do lack one thing that helps protect other factions somewhat from the influence of Chaos. Orks have virtually no appreciation for orthodoxy. Orks have a culture that encourages Orkoids to be individuals. Orks seem to fundamentally understand that strength and ability can come from any source (this appears to be the reason that Clans exist), and they respect Orkoids they may not actually have many positive feelings for when they do well in battle, or even when they're giving Orks a hard time. Face Eater Squigs (also known as Gnashers) for example, are loved by Orks for being thoroughly vicious and fearless. Orks have face-eating contests in their Brewhouses, where an Ork tries to out-eat the Squig and the other Orks bet on the outcome. The Ork doesn't always win, but either way the Orks find it entertaining. Orks also have a lot of Madboyz, who they tend to just allow to get on with things in their way. Even Stormboyz, who are fond of orthodoxy (and in a wondrously Orky fashion are more likely to turn to Chaos) and being the complete antithesis of being Orky, and thus are viewed largely as not Orky (and thus viewed with suspicion) are respected during battle because they fight so ferociously.

Orks do have a bit of orthodoxy (i.e. the Clan and Tribe systems) and Orks are expected to go along with it, or typically be ostracised. It boils down largely to loyalty though, and most Orks want to belong to something larger than themselves, so it all works out. Besides, whilst all Deffskullz will wear blue as a sign of their affiliation, with looted panoply and skulls dotted about their person, each individual Ork will probably have them in different places with a lot of personal touches. This seems to be largely expected, so I doubt many Orks resort to teasing about it.

Orks are more likely to take their own routes with less imperatives to stop them. This does mean that they don't usually need to turn to Chaos to overcome societal norms, but it does mean they are free to make their own mistakes. Orks really do embrace Social Darwinism. They can also find some Orks to be so abhorrent that they do often exclude them. These are called Bad 'Uns. There aren't many examples in the fluff (and even less up to date ones) but it seems you have to do quite a lot to annoy Orks that much. A lot of Freebootas are Bad Uns. I suppose the best known example would probably be Mad Dok Grotsnik. An Ork Warboss would have to be pretty desperate to hire such an Ork, but then that's usually the case with a lot of Freebootas.

Getting back to Chaos, it is possible, but the best examples are either corruption through some artefact, or Daemonic possession, and this works best when corrupting the Warboss. It's not foolproof, but with the augmented powers of Chaos behind him, he's not likely to lose any leadership challenges. If he proves to be really tough, even if he isn't entirely Orky, the other Orks will likely go along with it, and might even get tainted later.

This is one of those things that works on a case by case basis. As I mentioned earlier, it's all about context. I don't think there's an easy yes or no answer to this question.

Orks are inherently resistant to Chaos. They are not immune. Just resistant. As for why:

1: It doesn't fit their mindset. They don't really worship ANYONE, truth be told, even Gork and Mork are more just idols they try to mimic.

2: Their gestalt psychic field means that they instinctively understand when a fellow Ork has been corrupted (they're , be it by genestealers or by the forces of Chaos. This allows them to stamp out genestealer/chaos cults much faster and easier.

3: They don't fear death. This eliminates a huge bargaining chip for every single god of Chaos.

 Melissia wrote:
Orks are inherently resistant to Chaos. They are not immune. Just resistant. As for why:

1: It doesn't fit their mindset. They don't really worship ANYONE, truth be told, even Gork and Mork are more just idols they try to mimic.

2: Their gestalt psychic field means that they instinctively understand when a fellow Ork has been corrupted (they're , be it by genestealers or by the forces of Chaos. This allows them to stamp out genestealer/chaos cults much faster and easier.

3: They don't fear death. This eliminates a huge bargaining chip for every single god of Chaos.

So Orks breaking and running (With a measly LD of 7 no less) is entirely game mechanics?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Orks are inherently resistant to Chaos. They are not immune. Just resistant. As for why:

1: It doesn't fit their mindset. They don't really worship ANYONE, truth be told, even Gork and Mork are more just idols they try to mimic.

2: Their gestalt psychic field means that they instinctively understand when a fellow Ork has been corrupted (they're , be it by genestealers or by the forces of Chaos. This allows them to stamp out genestealer/chaos cults much faster and easier.

3: They don't fear death. This eliminates a huge bargaining chip for every single god of Chaos.

So Orks breaking and running (With a measly LD of 7 no less) is entirely game mechanics?

They are, in the lore, not afraid of death. They will break and flee if they think they have a better chance of winning if they do so, but by human standards, they are suicidally brave. In the lore, they were the only species whom the C'tan Stargods could not instill the fear of death in.

And the fact that they can still very easily fail a Fear test?

Is not necessarily a fear of death

A mob of Orks numbering 7 or less are a measly Ld of 7. Mobs of 11 or more are fearless, and thus autopass fear checks. Orks aren't stupid. They have the sense to run away from killy stuff if they can attack it from behind with a stikkbomm later. Or, just have more boyz. With enough Boyz, Orks can do anything.

Gretchin however are perpetually scared. Mostly scared of the Orks not letting them do their jobs.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And the fact that they can still very easily fail a Fear test?

Orks aren't afraid of dying, they're only worried about not being able to have more fights.

Orks describe running away as legging it so they can come again for another go, bring in more boys, or come in fer sum sneakky orky taktikz.

All Orks want fights. Without exception. They don't fight because they're angry or they want to be perfect at it, they fight for the fun of it. Dying in battle is still considered a win for an Ork.

I do believe that the Ork gods are the strongest gods, because Orks are everywhere in the universe, it is just that the Ork gods don't have an agenda, while the chaos gods do, i think the Chaos gods leave the orks largely alone because they don't want the largest Whaagh on their @...behinds

 Kain wrote:
Orks aren't afraid of dying, they're only worried about not being able to have more fights.

In that case, I'm not afraid of dying either, I'm only worried about not being able to have more life.

I think it's more likely that Orks are just suicidally dumb and uninhibited. They don't ordinarily fear death because they don't think things through (kind of like drunk people). However when they come face to face with death on the battlefield, then they run away like the cowardly green gits that they are. After a short period of cognitive dissonance (hiding in a hole), they resolve that it was a "Taktikol reetreet" and that they doesn't afraid of anything, then go back to being delusional before other orks see them.

 Smacks wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Orks aren't afraid of dying, they're only worried about not being able to have more fights.

In that case, I'm not afraid of dying either, I'm only worried about not being able to have more life.

I think it's more likely that Orks are just suicidally dumb and uninhibited. They don't ordinarily fear death because they don't think things through (kind of like drunk people). However when they come face to face with death on the battlefield, then they run away like the cowardly green gits that they are. After a short period of cognitive dissonance (hiding in a hole), they resolve that it was a "Taktikol reetreet" and that they doesn't afraid of anything, then go back to being delusional before other orks see them.

We're afraid of the pain that comes with death. Orks just dislike the thought of not having the chance to kill more.

They don't think like we do and we shouldn't humanize them too much. In fact, don't humanize them at all, because they're aliens.

Also, Orks are no less intelligent than we are. They simply disdain most fineries of culture. In processing power terms they match humans, and Ork Warbosses are every bit as capable of strategy and tactics as Imperial Generals or Eldar Autarchs.

The Eldar even make note that looking down on Ork culture is wrong given that Ork culture is a perfectly engineered one. No angst, no crime, no poverty, everyone's happy.

 Smacks wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Orks aren't afraid of dying, they're only worried about not being able to have more fights.

In that case, I'm not afraid of dying either, I'm only worried about not being able to have more life.

I think it's more likely that Orks are just suicidally dumb and uninhibited. They don't ordinarily fear death because they don't think things through (kind of like drunk people). However when they come face to face with death on the battlefield, then they run away like the cowardly green gits that they are. After a short period of cognitive dissonance (hiding in a hole), they resolve that it was a "Taktikol reetreet" and that they doesn't afraid of anything, then go back to being delusional before other orks see them.

So instead of reading the fluff, you decided that Orks were beyond stupid, opened with a false syllogism, and made the fantastically common misconception amongst those who don't like Orks of assuming all Ork speech is badly spelled phonetics. I would be putting it mildly if I said I disagreed strongly with your post.

 Smacks wrote:
I never got the impression that Orks are immune as such. If anything they seem quite weak minded and easily to corrupt when the plot requires it. The impression I got is that Orks and Chaos just aren't that interested in each other. Their spirits don't shine in the warp like Eldar, or even humans, and they probably don't make the brightest or most dependable followers.

 Smacks wrote:

In that case, I'm not afraid of dying either, I'm only worried about not being able to have more life.

I think it's more likely that Orks are just suicidally dumb and uninhibited. They don't ordinarily fear death because they don't think things through (kind of like drunk people). However when they come face to face with death on the battlefield, then they run away like the cowardly green gits that they are. After a short period of cognitive dissonance (hiding in a hole), they resolve that it was a "Taktikol reetreet" and that they doesn't afraid of anything, then go back to being delusional before other orks see them.

Orks are not stupid or weak minded at all. Noting in the fluff suggests they are, other than Imperial records treating them as mindless animals (Which is an illusion to racism and race superiority). They just think differently to humans. They no more fear death than a human fears losing a game. They are actually very strong minded as well according to the fluff. They are not corrupted very easily. They just have few wants and those wants are easy to fulfill. They often lack attention span and patience, but that is not the same as being weak minded.

 Dimreapa wrote:
So instead of reading the fluff you decided that Orks were beyond stupid, opened with a false syllogism.

You are the one being false. I never said Orks were beyond stupid, you said that. I said they were dumb and uninhibited (which is largely how they behave from a human perspective). That doesn't mean they can't come up with cleaver inventions, as evidently they already do.

Also you only look clever using words like syllogism when you actually know what they mean. What I said was not a syllogism, not even a false one. Maybe instead of going around telling people what they 'haven't read', you go read up on the words you are trying to use.

The statement made however was false, intentionally so because I was expanding on Kain statement which was also false. The fallacy you are looking for here is called the "overwhelming exception", but if you like I can put it in the form of a syllogism for you:

Premise 1: Orks fear not being able to fight anymore.
Premise 2: Being dead means you cannot fight anymore.
Conclusion: Orks fear being dead.

Nothing false about this, it's logic 101.

and made the fantastically common misconception amongst those who don't like Orks of assuming all Ork speech is badly spelled phonetics. I would be putting it mildly if I said I disagreed strongly with your post.

There you go making assumptions again. I actually love Orks (got my own army with Wazdakka conversion and everything). And I never said all Ork speech was that way, you said that. I was really just making a joke. If you actually read some of the older books, like the 2nd edition Ork codex, there are entire stories written in that tone. I think you are taking this way too seriously.

I'm not racist against Orks, some of my best friends are Orks

Ork religious belief is that when they die, Gork and Mork just stuff their soul into another body. (and honestly, although it's not explicitly stated, I wouldn't be too surprised if they're right. What else would Mork and Gork do with those souls? They certainly aren't using them in the Great Game or making demons with them or playing with them, after all)

So no, they don't fear death in terms of "Death is the end of everything". They only fear death in terms of "Doh. We lost that game. Oh well, Gork and Mork will give us another go."

It's still possible to make them metaphorically crap their pants, but even then it's a "We'd better leg it or else we'll lose!" kind of thing rather than a fear of being destroyed forever.

Realistically, none of the ork background really supports the idea that orks don't fear death. Orks do know fear and often that fear comes when they are getting properly krumped and are death is looming. Instead we have to build up these arguments based on one sentence from the old Necron Codex which is now highly suspect.

My own personal take on it would be that orks have almost no empathy which in turn gives them their near suicidal desire for 'fun'. If a face-eater squig chews the head off an ork, the other orks watching find it hilarious and they want a go too, totally ignoring the ork being chomped on is screaming in mortal agony and kakking in his pants. For those orks that live we can imagine them doing an Al Murray's Pub Landlord when recalling their near miss, "Get out! I was never confused! [orks don't fear death]" even assuming we listen to that guff from the old 'Cron 'dex...