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Stormsurge is a WD exclusive formation. You'll have to pick up the last one to get it (Well worth it, imo).

Thanks for the hard work on this thread.

Stormsurge is from two WD's ago at this point. (The May 10th edition, which is issue 15.)

Played my first game tonight and got rick-rolled so hard it was ridiculous. In the end, Baron Sathonyx and a 14-strong pack of Hellions wound up chasing a Leman Russ tank commander across the board like a demented version of the Looney Tunes. Crap was ridiculous. (Sidenote, Sathonyx and some Hellions can put some serious hurt on vehicles--as can Beastpacks. More second-string choices to keep in mind.) First game would have actually been mine (I ignored the cards in favor of tabling my opponent after the objective draws went SERIOUSLY skewed in his favor) but it ended at turn 5 with only a single tank remaining on the board.

Is it 1 grenade per model or per unit? Are you sure they have been changed I can't find it anywhere

Pretty sure it's one per unit in the shooting phase, one per model (against MCs or Vehicles) in assault.

And the ability for anyone with a PGL to throw blind grenades is pretty dope, btw.

It's same as 6th, the wording just sucks.

Shingen wrote:
It's same as 6th, the wording just sucks.

I agree. The wording is really lame.
The only saving grace is that it says, "throw" and it never describes using grenades in CC as, "throwing"

Exactly.

Also in each of the grenade types description it says one grenade for shooting, but there isn't a limit in the description for assault.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Urien Rakarth and a pack of Grots can do some damage to vehicles.

18 S7 attacks on the charge.

I haven't crunched the mathhammer on them, but I have had a handful of good experiences with them. A couple of times now I've had to use them to dig me out of a hairy situation with a vehicle, only to have the assaulting grots bring down the vehicles a little quicker than my Ravagers. Granted, I've only used them three times so far, so I can't speak to any reliability issues they may have, but they sure seem like they've got some utility, at least to me.

Seems to me like we don't have any A-list anti-vehicle options. To that end, I think we're going to have to accept that the Achilles Heel(s) of our army are vehicles and leadership tests. While the second issue continues to plague me, I have found that making sure most of my selections can perform as second- or third-string anti-armor units and just adopt a 'get as get can' approach to popping vehicles.

At the end of 5th, a squad of 10 of these guys was awesome for me. Then 6th smash attacks ruined these guys. With the new smash they may be much more viable again.

I use them from time to time, I am in the middle of converting some at the moment as I was proxying before...

Converting from Rat Ogre and Talos parts.

Nice.

Also I confirmed that the Reaper is 135 not 115. I think thats a tad steep but I will still field one, probably not a pair unless I find them working better then I project.

Just proxy raiders to test and see how it goes, let me know I've never tried them.

Shingen wrote:
Converting from Rat Ogre and Talos parts.

is there any other way?

I was actually considering using some war machine models, at least I think it was warmachine, im not so good with anything other than 40k to be honest.

There are some other models which would be cool as Haemonculus.

These guys:




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These guys would have made decent Grotesques:

Monopose and rather expensive though...

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Urien Rakarth and a pack of Grots can do some damage to vehicles.

18 S7 attacks on the charge.

I haven't crunched the mathhammer on them, but I have had a handful of good experiences with them. A couple of times now I've had to use them to dig me out of a hairy situation with a vehicle, only to have the assaulting grots bring down the vehicles a little quicker than my Ravagers. Granted, I've only used them three times so far, so I can't speak to any reliability issues they may have, but they sure seem like they've got some utility, at least to me.

Seems to me like we don't have any A-list anti-vehicle options. To that end, I think we're going to have to accept that the Achilles Heel(s) of our army are vehicles and leadership tests. While the second issue continues to plague me, I have found that making sure most of my selections can perform as second- or third-string anti-armor units and just adopt a 'get as get can' approach to popping vehicles.

At the end of 5th, a squad of 10 of these guys was awesome for me. Then 6th smash attacks ruined these guys. With the new smash they may be much more viable again.

Smash? How did Smash ruin them for you? Oh, I get it. Instant killing them? I just never ran them into a MC. (Although now that you mention it, that might be a good use of their time now.) The only time I didn't get my money's worth out of them in 6th was in a game where they got caught up by a Librarian with the Dominate power and the Warlord trait that makes a unit use it's lowest Ld value. (THAT combo sucked. Never had cause to look at a Grot's leadership value before. I was horrified.)

I also picked up the Cephalyx Overlords, Shingen. Just gorgeous next to the other DE. Fit right in. For my grotesques, I went with some old Dreamblade figs. They still need some conversion work on a few, and they all need a new paint job, but here are the base minis.

I am really liking DE in 7th. Just conceptual at the moment, no game experience... yet.

I like:
Defensive Grenades being able to be shot to blind.

Raiders and venoms being scoring!

The New Jink. Being able to do it turn 1 and not having to move will really make me worry less about being shot at turn 1.

Love that reavers don't loose effectiveness after jinking.

Love that a killy archon will not get bogged down in challenges.

Haywire grenades are just as awesome as they have always been.

Our vehicles will explode less often.

Comments that I have:

I have always considered any "allies" that are battle brothers, in our case, eldar, iyanden and corsairs, as being part of the same book. Now even more so with the addition to be able to use transports and what not. I just mix and match whatever I want and dont make a big deal out of it

What im wary of:

Flamers kitting the models inside our raiders and venoms! Dangerous.

No more craters when a raider explodes.

Raiders are more likely to be wrecked than exploded, so they can become LOS blocking terrain

See it may just be me. I know I am strange, but I have been playing DE since they were first cooked up , fugly models and all, in 98. Back then I always would play my brother who ran Craftworld Eldar. So mixing and matching units between books, or in this case relying on them for AT, feels like admitting their superiority to my bro even though we play less often. Grudge matches are fun, but they mess with your head over a decade lol.

I have wanted to ally them in for conversions mostly (dark avatar anyone?) so maybe I'll tuck them in. I can't stand the wave serpent models however, I remember the 2nd ed codex cover art where they looked like Greek Triremes. So awesome! Then they decided to mod a falcon....wtf...


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 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:
Raiders are more likely to be wrecked than exploded, so they can become LOS blocking terrain

A still feel like celebrating our vehicles durability is a tad silly since literally everything in the game was boosted. If all transports became harder to kill across the board it can't really be called a boost. Especially when we rely on single shot weapons to kill tanks.

Yeah, my game experience so far has given me the impression that the vehicles changes hurt us more than they helped. (Of course, Reavers benefit immensely from the new Jink.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
Yeah, my game experience so far has given me the impression that the vehicles changes hurt us more than they helped. (Of course, Reavers benefit immensely from the new Jink.)

Yea exactly. If you play DE you adapt and by now exploding vehicles aren't the problem. Mine rarely are in range or without cover unless I am willing to trade the unit anyway. What sucks now, is if I AM willing to trade my trueborn or warrior unit to crack a transport I literally have 50% less chance then I used to, to wipe that tank off the table. Even if I hull it out, they can hide behind the wreck to short me shots on the unit.

Any gain we garnered is also crapped on by the no escape rule. Things like hellhounds, frag noughts and podding assault marines became much more of a counter. Beasts will be mandatory to box them out.

Im working on a list at the moment with Reavers and a Beastpack in it but it loses out on a lot of AT so I am having to take Wyches which are not exactly my favourite thing in the worth.

From my understanding of the new allies you can take more than 1 detachment so I have just shoved in 2 allies with 2 jetseers and 2 jetbike squads and called it at that.

Roll 1 Farseer on ROF and 1 on Divination should give me all the tools I need for killing pretty much anything.

A rending beastpack without having to take Razorwing Flocks is a massive boost (if you roll it).

I have also been trying to work out a list that uses no DE vehicles at all, but thats not going so well. The 20 man Guardian Squad with Farseers in it seems like the best option but I am not a massive fan of it.

Playing a game tomorrow against a friend who uses drop pod sternguard, I played him Tuesday this week and basically wiped him out (except for his 4 flyers) by end of turn 2 (having Tiggy and 5 TH/SS terminators get rended by Venoms was amusing).

Reavers killed a unit even turn up to turn 3 and then couldnt bladevane anything so they just pottered around causing trouble.

Mono DE can still work very well but the tools you get from Allies are so beneficial its hard not to take them.

I dont list tailor, I have 1 list and use it against everything and I think the list I have come up with should be able to stand up to pretty much anything.

I love the wych models though. I painted 20 of them up and use them to win painting comps at my monthly They have paid for themselves so I can't complain. They do suck fiercely though, even as AT. I can't agree with trading a 60pt minimum objective secured troop for a 35 pt rhino .... I have done it... But i hated myself for it


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I think a 10 man grot squad with Vect+ 2 heamis with WWP is viable again now that thre is no limit on our reserves and allies can come out. Just pack your reserves with high volume, fast shooters.

 Red Corsair wrote:

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I think a 10 man grot squad with Vect+ 2 heamis with WWP is viable again now that thre is no limit on our reserves and allies can come out. Just pack your reserves with high volume, fast shooters.

What do you mean by no limit? Did something change in 7ed for WWP?

 whembly wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think a 10 man grot squad with Vect+ 2 heamis with WWP is viable again now that thre is no limit on our reserves and allies can come out. Just pack your reserves with high volume, fast shooters.

What do you mean by no limit? Did something change in 7ed for WWP?

Two things changed. The first is that you can put as many units as you want into Reserve. The second is that allies (Battle Brothers at the very least) can use the WWP.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think a 10 man grot squad with Vect+ 2 heamis with WWP is viable again now that thre is no limit on our reserves and allies can come out. Just pack your reserves with high volume, fast shooters.

What do you mean by no limit? Did something change in 7ed for WWP?

Two things changed. The first is that you can put as many units as you want into Reserve. The second is that allies (Battle Brothers at the very least) can use the WWP.

I see... so they only need to survive the first round of shooting as they can't charge when they hit the table....

Correct. But without their dedicated transports, one assumes that you can overwhelm your opponent's ability to shoot things off the table.

I do think wyches will become more frequent just for haywire grenades. Or trueborn. Because they are scoring, can shoot, and can take haywires.

Those'd be some expensive Trueborn, though. And they wouldn't be any less fragile than regular ol' trueborn.

At the tail end of 6th I got into using Fortifications with Wracks crewing the guns. (At 30 points apiece, Wracks make the cheapest BS4 gun crew available in any army!) I haven't tried this yet in 7th, but I still intend to.