Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I disagree that the investment to get her PTs is astronomical. Three Grots is 105, and a Haemie is 50. That's actually a fairly reasonable price for 11 T5 FNP wounds to use as a delivery system for her.

Also, suggesting they would slow her down just proves you don't know how to properly field the unit. The second she needs fleet, she detaches, takes a PT with her, and then goes and munches on a squad to get her FC back. Then she ping pongs her way through your deployment zone. The Grots/Haemie do their own thing. Eat bullets or swamp people in cc, whatever.

Also, if you play that unit right you really shouldn't be getting shot down until you have them in position to deliver their payload. Turbo Boost, Aethersales, reserves, etc. Several other HQs could assist in that like Baron, Vect, Duke, etc. Point is, there are plenty of options. You just have to play with her a bit to find out what works, and play to her strengths.

Or you can lol she's bad math all day on a forum instead of playing the game and learning. It's whateves.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I disagree that the investment to get her PTs is astronomical. Three Grots is 105, and a Haemie is 50. That's actually a fairly reasonable price for 11 T5 FNP wounds to use as a delivery system for her.

Also, suggesting they would slow her down just proves you don't know how to properly field the unit. The second she needs fleet, she detaches, takes a PT with her, and then goes and munches on a squad to get her FC back. Then she ping pongs her way through your deployment zone. The Grots/Haemie do their own thing. Eat bullets or swamp people in cc, whatever.

Also, if you play that unit right you really shouldn't be getting shot down until you have them in position to deliver their payload. Turbo Boost, Aethersales, reserves, etc. Several other HQs could assist in that like Baron, Vect, Duke, etc. Point is, there are plenty of options. You just have to play with her a bit to find out what works, and play to her strengths.

Or you can lol she's bad math all day on a forum instead of playing the game and learning. It's whateves.

Exalted for having an open mind

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Lelith 175pts .66 hit x .33 wound x 1 AP2 = .18 chance to wound
Archon (ShadowField + VBlade only) 95pts .66 hit x .82 wound x .33 3+Save = .14 chance to wound
Archon (ShadowField + HuskBlade only) 110pts = above stuff but AP2 = .54 chance to wound

Uh....surely you realize what's wrong with this assessment, right? Some key things you might be missing? No?

This is assuming a SM, T4 with a 3+ save and no invuln. Run it against your standard marine HQ with a 2+ save and a 3++ and the Vblade comes out further ahead.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I disagree that the investment to get her PTs is astronomical. Three Grots is 105, and a Haemie is 50. That's actually a fairly reasonable price for 11 T5 FNP wounds to use as a delivery system for her.

And that setup also costs you an Elite slot and an HQ slot. I'll agree with Unbound now a thing maybe that's not so tough for people, but depending on the play environment it is still a cost.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Also, suggesting they would slow her down just proves you don't know how to properly field the unit. The second she needs fleet, she detaches, takes a PT with her, and then goes and munches on a squad to get her FC back. Then she ping pongs her way through your deployment zone. The Grots/Haemie do their own thing. Eat bullets or swamp people in cc, whatever.

I note that your solution is to remove a pain token, which robs her of FC, which is the theoretical point of the Grots being there, which proves that...yeah, they slow her down. I will agree you can sacrifice the Grots and the FC to avoid being slowed down, but think that proves my point that getting her FC that way slows her down. Also, depending on the target, Lelith really probably doesn't want to try a solo charge.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Also, if you play that unit right you really shouldn't be getting shot down until you have them in position to deliver their payload. Turbo Boost, Aethersales, reserves, etc. Several other HQs could assist in that like Baron, Vect, Duke, etc. Point is, there are plenty of options. You just have to play with her a bit to find out what works, and play to her strengths.

Well, you're going into 3+ HQ slots with a lot of that, which does mean we're discussing a certain build type setup. Also, I think I am being quite reasonable in suggesting that a Raider is a fairly vulnerable craft. I tend to get my Raiders across the field by not giving my opponent optimal Raider targets, so he can pop 1 or 2 on his turn, but the rest get there and do their job. I sort of think the Lelith+Grots+Haem 400 points in a Raider boat is going to draw some firepower attention.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Or you can lol she's bad math all day on a forum instead of playing the game and learning. It's whateves.

That seems like a weird personal attack - are you trying to call me names here? If not, I'm not sure what you're saying this for. Clarify? I don't follow the point unless it's just name calling which I don't think validates your position.

I will agree you can sacrifice the Grots and the FC to avoid being slowed down, but think that proves my point that getting her FC that way slows her down. Also, depending on the target, Lelith really probably doesn't want to try a solo charge.

A.) It's Options. If the most viable thing charge is close and calls for FC, you stay together in charge. However, B.) Is the ideal. You actually want her alone. If you can stack 2 on her she'll eat units on a daily by her lonesome. The first one she can easily get from your Grots/Haemie, without depriving them of FNP for themselves. The second one she can get on her own.

Well, you're going into 3+ HQ slots with a lot of that, which does mean we're discussing a certain build type setup.

Of course.

Also, I think I am being quite reasonable in suggesting that a Raider is a fairly vulnerable craft. I tend to get my Raiders across the field by not giving my opponent optimal Raider targets, so he can pop 1 or 2 on his turn, but the rest get there and do their job. I sort of think the Lelith+Grots+Haem 400 points in a Raider boat is going to draw some firepower attention.

Of course you combine it with saturation. You also combine it with either an increased chance to go first or a solid contingency if you are going second. For instance, you can either hide her craft on the battlefield, or if you can't you reserve her. With Sails you should be getting at worst what 28-36" off your long edge? That should be enough to get her+bullet shield where you need her.

That seems like a weird personal attack - are you trying to call me names here? If not, I'm not sure what you're saying this for. Clarify? I don't follow the point unless it's just name calling which I don't think validates your position.

It was more a criticism of your rhetoric. I wouldn't advise taking it personally. Discussions surrounding plastic toy soldier's tactics on the internet should never effect you personally.