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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im pretty sure Thin Mints are not an endangered species.
And I do know people who donote to Boy/Girl Scouts

And anybody who donates in exchange for cookies is greedy.

trying to change the unchangable human nature of risk/reward incentivizing basically every action we make, is folly,

adapting to, and working with that human nature produces actual results.

may as well go "why do we even need money? why cant we all just do our best and get stuff because we love everyone/thing?"

if altruism worked, these animals would not have been poached into endangerment in the first place....

the simple fact that altruistic donations are far FAR surpassed by " hunter who actually supports the sustaining of wildlife/enviroment i sustainably hunt" donations, is proof enough of what method works better.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Happy the photo safari made you an expert in wildlife management and conservation. I've been on a military base before, where do I apply for Secretary of Defense?

I never claimed to be an expert, or requested a job in the field. However, I do donate to conservation programs, read the literature, and attend a couple of lectures each year.

Like I said previously, I understand the economics involved in selling these licenses. I understand that it raises needed funds for the conservation of the species. That said, I still think those people who feel the need to kill these animals are scum. The fact that some good comes of their scumminess is some consolation, but they're still scum.

I agree, Hunting animals that are near extinction is just wrong.
Y'know, I stand by my original Statement, yes it is greedy. IF they truly cared for the environment, then give the money and expect nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling inside. The fact that you disguise killing an animal as conservation is sickening

These animals were going to need to be killed at some point anyway. By selling licenses to hunt and kill them the programs raise money and likely stop these people from hunting animals illegally. It's not like people with lots of money have been stopped by laws before now is it? Now if you say you don't mind hunting it means you cannot disagree with the act of killing an animal. If you say you understand why they need to be killed you can't have a problem with that either. You must only have a problem with glorifying the death of these animals which while understandable is more just poor taste on the part of those glorifying it than any particular moral system.

No they arent. Because something didnt DIE so they girl scouts could get the money. You seem to misunderstand that they are different cases.
@cincy: The African Elephant is labeled as "Vulnerable"
White Rhino is "Near Threatened"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 purplefood wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Happy the photo safari made you an expert in wildlife management and conservation. I've been on a military base before, where do I apply for Secretary of Defense?

I never claimed to be an expert, or requested a job in the field. However, I do donate to conservation programs, read the literature, and attend a couple of lectures each year.

Like I said previously, I understand the economics involved in selling these licenses. I understand that it raises needed funds for the conservation of the species. That said, I still think those people who feel the need to kill these animals are scum. The fact that some good comes of their scumminess is some consolation, but they're still scum.

I agree, Hunting animals that are near extinction is just wrong.
Y'know, I stand by my original Statement, yes it is greedy. IF they truly cared for the environment, then give the money and expect nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling inside. The fact that you disguise killing an animal as conservation is sickening

These animals were going to need to be killed at some point anyway. By selling licenses to hunt and kill them the programs raise money and likely stop these people from hunting animals illegally. It's not like people with lots of money have been stopped by laws before now is it? Now if you say you don't mind hunting it means you cannot disagree with the act of killing an animal. If you say you understand why they need to be killed you can't have a problem with that either. You must only have a problem with glorifying the death of these animals which while understandable is more just poor taste on the part of those glorifying it than any particular moral system.

Maybe, I go to my uncles place and get unnerved by the bear pelts, Deer heads and other things. Then I find out he didnt even use most of the meat.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No they arent. Because something didnt DIE so they girl scouts could get the money. You seem to misunderstand that they are different cases.

But that wasn't the criteria you used.

You said that you either give money for nothing, or you are greedy and selfish.

I would think it is bvious the killing Animals and buying cookies are two different things

Honestly, apart from glorifying the kill (which I find morally dubious, but that's another topic... ), I don't see a problem with what they're doing.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No they arent. Because something didnt DIE so they girl scouts could get the money. You seem to misunderstand that they are different cases.
@cincy: The African Elephant is labeled as "Vulnerable"
White Rhino is "Near Threatened"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 purplefood wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Happy the photo safari made you an expert in wildlife management and conservation. I've been on a military base before, where do I apply for Secretary of Defense?

I never claimed to be an expert, or requested a job in the field. However, I do donate to conservation programs, read the literature, and attend a couple of lectures each year.

Like I said previously, I understand the economics involved in selling these licenses. I understand that it raises needed funds for the conservation of the species. That said, I still think those people who feel the need to kill these animals are scum. The fact that some good comes of their scumminess is some consolation, but they're still scum.

I agree, Hunting animals that are near extinction is just wrong.
Y'know, I stand by my original Statement, yes it is greedy. IF they truly cared for the environment, then give the money and expect nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling inside. The fact that you disguise killing an animal as conservation is sickening

These animals were going to need to be killed at some point anyway. By selling licenses to hunt and kill them the programs raise money and likely stop these people from hunting animals illegally. It's not like people with lots of money have been stopped by laws before now is it? Now if you say you don't mind hunting it means you cannot disagree with the act of killing an animal. If you say you understand why they need to be killed you can't have a problem with that either. You must only have a problem with glorifying the death of these animals which while understandable is more just poor taste on the part of those glorifying it than any particular moral system.

Maybe, I go to my uncles place and get unnerved by the bear pelts, Deer heads and other things. Then I find out he didn't even use most of the meat.

Well, is it the waste that annoys you? The death? The killing itself? The trophies of it perhaps? (This is in regard to your story of your uncle)
I can understand disliking the act of glorifying in killing. Not everyone see's it as such and it's not always that.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

OFC all the do nothing spend nothing types will disagree,

So, Insult those who disagree with them. How do you know they are "Do nothing Spend Nothing" Types?
If they disagree they must be nobodies who do nothing but get mad and type. Nopes its not like I dont give to thee WWF or things like that.

Most facebook outragers are "do nothing, spend nothing" types.

FWIW:

-- The elephant wasn't killed. It was hunted, dosed, tagged and tracked, allowed to recuperate, and released.
-- Meat from all of the killed animals was given to local villages that used it for food.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:


Considering you were judging people in your opening post it is hardly fitting for you to be offended.

Touche.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=681355358585457&set=pb.628603203860673.-2207520000.1404328111.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xap1%2Ft1.0-9%2F10455435_681355358585457_1138404164884904927_n.jpg&size=960%2C720

I think that Elephant is definitely dead.

And then there's the one they took this from...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would think it is bvious the killing Animals and buying cookies are two different things

You said that you are selfish and greedy if you donate while expecting something in return. Sorry if that logic doesn't work.

 purplefood wrote:

Well, is it the waste that annoys you? The death? The killing itself? The trophies of it perhaps? (This is in regard to your story of your uncle)
I can understand disliking the act of glorifying in killing. Not everyone see's it as such and it's not always that.

Gloryfiying the killing and making no use of it beyond the trophy. Most arguments I hear in favor of hunting is "Tradition" and stuff branchinh from that. Well if you followed tradition they didnt display the animal in funny poses. They used the pelt for clothing, bones for toothpicks and so forth. But seeing that hunters not use it as nothing more as a sport of killing animals and proving you are good at killing something is wrong and disgusting to me. If you want to hunt for food, good, I love venison. but if you kill a buck, take a pic then leave it like alot of hunters I know, then you are scum


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would think it is bvious the killing Animals and buying cookies are two different things

You said that you are selfish and greedy if you donate while expecting something in return. Sorry if that logic doesn't work.

Then I gave a qualifyer about killing. It is greedy. Hunting like this girl does is greedy, plain and simple

I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

There are far more greedier people who have done and still do far more damage to the world and our society than this girl will ever do. She'd need a small nuclear bomb and a heavily populated metropolitan city to do an equivalent damage. Rail at this girl all you like but there are far worse people who get away with far worse gak. At least her greed had a side-effect that helped.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

"Hey guys, that Alpha-Rhino male just killed two younger rhinos that are of breeding age and 3 children. We just lost males that can be used to grow the herd and no female will breed with the Alpha-Rhino because he is too old and cannot sustain the herd. He is going to kill more of them!"
"It's okay, we killed the poachers."
"But that doesn't address the problem. We lost 6 Rhinos already, there will be no new rhinos with the alpha killing everything. We have to do something about him!"
"Aren't you listening, the poachers are gone!"
"But..."
"Pssst.....poachers....."

 purplefood wrote:
There are far more greedier people who have done and still do far more damage to the world and our society than this girl will ever do. She'd need a small nuclear bomb and a heavily populated metropolitan city to do an equivalent damage. Rail at this girl all you like but there are far worse people who get away with far worse gak. At least her greed had a side-effect that helped.

Someone once told me something. "There is someone who always has it worse, but that means your problems dont matter" This is the same princible. There is always a worse person, but that doesnt make this any more good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

"Hey guys, that Alpha-Rhino male just killed two younger rhinos that are of breeding age and 3 children. We just lost males that can be used to grow the herd and no female will breed with the Alpha-Rhino because he is too old and cannot sustain the herd. He is going to kill more of them!"
"It's okay, we killed the poachers."
"But that doesn't address the problem. We lost 6 Rhinos already, there will be no new rhinos with the alpha killing everything. We have to do something about him!"
"Aren't you listening, the poachers are gone!"
"But..."
"Pssst.....poachers....."

And again your fail to see comedy. Im trying to defuse a tense thread here with a bit of joke.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

Hunting people for money isn't alright under any circumstances. Hunting animals... still isn't okay but when given the choice would you rather them be all dead or have just a handful die?

I would rather no animals die at all. I love animals but charity isn't cutting it.

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

"Hey guys, that Alpha-Rhino male just killed two younger rhinos that are of breeding age and 3 children. We just lost males that can be used to grow the herd and no female will breed with the Alpha-Rhino because he is too old and cannot sustain the herd. He is going to kill more of them!"
"It's okay, we killed the poachers."
"But that doesn't address the problem. We lost 6 Rhinos already, there will be no new rhinos with the alpha killing everything. We have to do something about him!"
"Aren't you listening, the poachers are gone!"
"But..."
"Pssst.....poachers....."

not to mention that this is how they get the money to combat poachers in the first place... because the $ sure isnt coming in through altruistic means.

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

"Hey guys, that Alpha-Rhino male just killed two younger rhinos that are of breeding age and 3 children. We just lost males that can be used to grow the herd and no female will breed with the Alpha-Rhino because he is too old and cannot sustain the herd. He is going to kill more of them!"
"It's okay, we killed the poachers."
"But that doesn't address the problem. We lost 6 Rhinos already, there will be no new rhinos with the alpha killing everything. We have to do something about him!"
"Aren't you listening, the poachers are gone!"
"But..."
"Pssst.....poachers....."

Find me an Alpha Rhino than can see off two younger challengers but cannot breed.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Find me an Alpha Rhino than can see off two younger challengers but cannot breed.

I'm going by the case earlier this year. They were talking about it quite a bit on NPR. He was killing younger rhinos but none of the females would mate with him anymore.

But doesnt that happen in nature though? Kinda the order of things?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But doesnt that happen in nature though? Kinda the order of things?

extinction also happens in nature, humans causing it is no different then other animals/weather/ect causing it.

She's pretty cute though. I'd give her some big game to hunt.

 easysauce wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But doesnt that happen in nature though? Kinda the order of things?

extinction also happens in nature, humans causing it is no different then other animals/weather/ect causing it.

Except we choose to do it.

"The Nazis killing 6 million Jews is no different to a Volcano/Hurricane/Meteorite/Tsunami wiping out a city of 6 million people."

See the ridiculousness of that statement?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
There are far more greedier people who have done and still do far more damage to the world and our society than this girl will ever do. She'd need a small nuclear bomb and a heavily populated metropolitan city to do an equivalent damage. Rail at this girl all you like but there are far worse people who get away with far worse gak. At least her greed had a side-effect that helped.

Someone once told me something. "There is someone who always has it worse, but that means your problems dont matter" This is the same princible. There is always a worse person, but that doesnt make this any more good.

No it just shifts them down the list of gak we need to deal with. This girl has assisted in animal conservation efforts. Whatever her motivation it's hardly a solely evil act you may think her crass for celebrating but that's your opinion. You may think referring to it as 'assisting animal conservation' as dressing it up but that it what she has done. The people who caused a global recession and probably helped kill a few thousand people are still rich and still free. The outrage over stuff like this is so incredibly misplaced it is unreal. There are millions of homeless, starving and sick people in the world but clearly this 19 year old girl who helped out with animal conservation-because she fancied hunting something people usually can't hunt and could pay for it-is clearly just as bad as all the poverty, famine, disease, torture and war in the world. I'm not saying animal conservation isn't important or isn't a noble cause, i'm saying that there are plenty of worse things in the world that people do not get angry about.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather big game hunters get their willies up (Or the female equivalent) than the animals go extinct. It's really the lesser of the two evils.

How about we go after the poachers? Or lets the big game hunters go after them.
There we go, I fixed the problem. no you donate to hunt poachers.

"Hey guys, that Alpha-Rhino male just killed two younger rhinos that are of breeding age and 3 children. We just lost males that can be used to grow the herd and no female will breed with the Alpha-Rhino because he is too old and cannot sustain the herd. He is going to kill more of them!"
"It's okay, we killed the poachers."
"But that doesn't address the problem. We lost 6 Rhinos already, there will be no new rhinos with the alpha killing everything. We have to do something about him!"
"Aren't you listening, the poachers are gone!"
"But..."
"Pssst.....poachers....."

Find me an Alpha Rhino than can see off two younger challengers but cannot breed.

Someone summoned me?


I don't know the whole issue is just icky to me.

 purplefood wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
There are far more greedier people who have done and still do far more damage to the world and our society than this girl will ever do. She'd need a small nuclear bomb and a heavily populated metropolitan city to do an equivalent damage. Rail at this girl all you like but there are far worse people who get away with far worse gak. At least her greed had a side-effect that helped.

Someone once told me something. "There is someone who always has it worse, but that means your problems dont matter" This is the same princible. There is always a worse person, but that doesnt make this any more good.

No it just shifts them down the list of gak we need to deal with. This girl has assisted in animal conservation efforts. Whatever her motivation it's hardly a solely evil act you may think her crass for celebrating but that's your opinion. You may think referring to it as 'assisting animal conservation' as dressing it up but that it what she has done. The people who caused a global recession and probably helped kill a few thousand people are still rich and still free. The outrage over stuff like this is so incredibly misplaced it is unreal. There are millions of homeless, starving and sick people in the world but clearly this 19 year old girl who helped out with animal conservation-because she fancied hunting something people usually can't hunt and could pay for it-is clearly just as bad as all the poverty, famine, disease, torture and war in the world. I'm not saying animal conservation isn't important or isn't a noble cause, i'm saying that there are plenty of worse things in the world that people do not get angry about.

Fair point. I guess we all have out own things we worry about. To me it isnt her specific, its the idea of celebrating a kill.
Also....did you just change you avatar for this thread?

I misspoke. It was the Rhino (the more endangered species) that was being tracked, not the Elephant.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
There are far more greedier people who have done and still do far more damage to the world and our society than this girl will ever do. She'd need a small nuclear bomb and a heavily populated metropolitan city to do an equivalent damage. Rail at this girl all you like but there are far worse people who get away with far worse gak. At least her greed had a side-effect that helped.

Someone once told me something. "There is someone who always has it worse, but that means your problems dont matter" This is the same princible. There is always a worse person, but that doesnt make this any more good.

No it just shifts them down the list of gak we need to deal with. This girl has assisted in animal conservation efforts. Whatever her motivation it's hardly a solely evil act you may think her crass for celebrating but that's your opinion. You may think referring to it as 'assisting animal conservation' as dressing it up but that it what she has done. The people who caused a global recession and probably helped kill a few thousand people are still rich and still free. The outrage over stuff like this is so incredibly misplaced it is unreal. There are millions of homeless, starving and sick people in the world but clearly this 19 year old girl who helped out with animal conservation-because she fancied hunting something people usually can't hunt and could pay for it-is clearly just as bad as all the poverty, famine, disease, torture and war in the world. I'm not saying animal conservation isn't important or isn't a noble cause, i'm saying that there are plenty of worse things in the world that people do not get angry about.

Fair point. I guess we all have out own things we worry about. To me it isnt her specific, its the idea of celebrating a kill.
Also....did you just change you avatar for this thread?

Nope. It's totally unrelated.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Gloryfiying the killing and making no use of it beyond the trophy. Most arguments I hear in favor of hunting is "Tradition" and stuff branchinh from that. Well if you followed tradition they didnt display the animal in funny poses. They used the pelt for clothing, bones for toothpicks and so forth. But seeing that hunters not use it as nothing more as a sport of killing animals and proving you are good at killing something is wrong and disgusting to me. If you want to hunt for food, good, I love venison. but if you kill a buck, take a pic then leave it like alot of hunters I know, then you are scum

Well, that isn't really true in this case.

The deceased animals go to the local villages for food.

Does it really make a difference who killed it if there isn't any of the waste?

And also, I need to meet these hunters of yours that are leaving the deer and not eating it. I don't personally know anyone like that, and I know everyone I hunt with would be irritated at that waste. That's some good meats.