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Well, this was derailed a bit but this kind of does. Either way, it explicitly now states in the new codex that the Grey Knight gene-seed was derived directly from the Emperor himself. It was not based on any Primarch or Legion that was in existence. The Emperor saw what the Heresy had done to the Imperium and wanted to make one last gift to humanity. He felt that he had failed humanity and he was afraid that he wasn't going to survive the Heresy so this last gift was the Grey Knights. A pure chapter of Space Marines that would never fail humanity like the Traitor Legions did and would always be the last hope, the last light for humanity in the coming dark. Thus only the Emperor's pure genetics would do for making the Grey Knight gene-seed and that is what the Emperor did, took his genetics and made the Grey Knight gene-seed. The only thing the Emperor needed the Chaos Gods for was the creation of the Primarchs, he already knew how to make Space Marines so to create the Grey Knights from his own genetics wasn't that big of a deal.

So the evidence for this, see pg.7 in the 7th edition Grey Knight codex under the heading "IN THE EMPEROR'S IMAGE" reads: "The Grey Knights' strength of spirit and purity of body were two of the most important gifts the Emperor passed on to the Chapter through his genetic legacy...Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey Knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is the unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp, shape it to his will and yet remain beyond its madness, that he has gifted to the Grey Knights. Even the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are too far removed from their creator to embody such purity; their genetic integrity faded by hundreds of generations and thousands of years, given varying degrees of imperfection. Not so the Grey Knights, whose unblemished line reaches back to their maker in an unbroken chain".

Straight from the source, GW has finally came out and just said it, the Grey Knights gene-seed is based on the Emperor's DIRECT genetics thus making the Emperor the Grey Knights' "Primarch". No other psyker can mold the warp to their will like Grey Knights can and the only other one that could do it was the Emperor himself which is how the Grey Knights can stand in front of daemons as the daemons try to corrupt them and the Grey Knights can tell the daemons to feth off because they are able to control the Warp in the same way daemons can.

In the The Emperor's Gift even Hyperion makes a remark about the Grey Knights are called the EMPEROR's Gift for a reason and that reason is that they are directly connected to the Emperor. They have no Primarch, no parent Legion because they don't need it when they have the Emperor's purity and mastery of the Warp. That makes them more powerful psykers than the Thousand Sons in my opinion. Yes, the Thousand Sons can do great things but at what cost while the Grey Knights wield the power without any threat of corruption what so ever.

On a related note, how does this affect the geneseed of the Exorcists, who are said to carry the same geneseed as the Grey Knights. What makes them different? We're all aware of the voluntary possession the Exorcists go through as part of their initiation. Some sort of tempering process to harden the soul, or perhaps burn it out.

Exorcists are essentially the Reasonable Marines version of the Grey Knights.

Easier to make, easier to conceal, a wider spectrum of foes, a tool of the Inquisition. Don't murder IG in droves for seeing them.

However other Space Marine chapters see them with disdain, they aren't pure, they're tainted they embaced the Warp and used it; compared to the Grey Knights who exist as the perfect anti-thesis of Chaos, their mere presence weakening daemon.

Oh and Black Templars actually like the Grey Knights, you know, the guys who hate psykers.

EDIT: Actually thats a great question if the Exorcists are actually using GK-geneseed; the Inquisition would be essentially destroying the Big E's genetic legacy, I think the other Ordos would have a problem with that.

 Quickjager wrote:
Oh and Black Templars actually like the Grey Knights, you know, the guys who hate psykers.

Do the Black Templars even know that the Grey Knights are psykers? Or that they're empowered with the faith of the God-Emperor. Even if the Grey Knights and Exorcists are in some ways similar, their presentation and methods are wildly different from one another, and the Black Templars are fairly prone to taking what they see at face value.

Actually thats a great question if the Exorcists are actually using GK-geneseed; the Inquisition would be essentially destroying the Big E's genetic legacy, I think the other Ordos would have a problem with that.

How many Inquisitors actually know that a) The Grey Knights used geneseed directly from the Emperor and b)The Exorcists are "successors" of the Grey Knights? Neither one of those is common knowledge even within the Ordo Malleus and for non-Ordo Malleus Inquisitors it would basically be unknown.

Yea the BT know about the Grey Knights being psykers, by extension they also know not a single GK has fallen to Chaos because of the genetic heritage they have.

Black Templar are about PURITY first and foremost, so Grey Knights are alright in their books. The Exorcists on the otherhand... if they knew 100% about the possession ritual, you'd probably see a Astartes vs. Astartes war.

And the Exorcists DO use librarians, but it is painted in such a way that they are ready on a moments notice to kill their psykers if they have a suspicion of them. You could say they're more grimdark than usual while also being somewhat more reasonable.

We don't know how many -][- know about the geneseed, we don't even really know if they take it seriously. It probably varies widely.

Also, we technically don't *know* that they use GK geneseed, its just a rumor in universe. And since a Highlord apparently sealed away every record of theirs barring another Highlord releasing it... the only ones that know would be the Inquisitors who were part of their creation process.

it's also possiable that the exortionists don't use GK geneseed and they're the ordos attempt to replicate the GKs using more conventional gene seed.

The Exorcists have different operational parameters than the GK. The Exorcists are all former daemon-possessees (this is part of their initiation into the Chapter), and having survived the experience and the exorcism (hence the Chapter name), they are more resistant to future daemonic attacks.

Grey knights weren't an original chapter so they dont have a primarch. also, they are more of a branch of the Ordo Malleus, so they wont have successor chapters

They're not the Chamber Militant anymore, I don't believe, just "working closely" (much the same way the SoB is not the Chamber Militant of Ordo Hereticus anymore).

They definitely won't have successors. No need for them, really. Of course, they wouldn't be alone in this, the SW also have no Successors.

 Quickjager wrote:
Exorcists are essentially the Reasonable Marines version of the Grey Knights.

Easier to make, easier to conceal, a wider spectrum of foes, a tool of the Inquisition. Don't murder IG in droves for seeing them.

However other Space Marine chapters see them with disdain, they aren't pure, they're tainted they embaced the Warp and used it; compared to the Grey Knights who exist as the perfect anti-thesis of Chaos, their mere presence weakening daemon.

Oh and Black Templars actually like the Grey Knights, you know, the guys who hate psykers.

EDIT: Actually thats a great question if the Exorcists are actually using GK-geneseed; the Inquisition would be essentially destroying the Big E's genetic legacy, I think the other Ordos would have a problem with that.

Black Templars don't hate psykers, this part of the fluff has been quite clearly retconned for a while. BT's hate witches, psykers that delve in the powers of Chaos. Much like astropaths or navigators, BT's would probably view Grey Knights with great respect for their position and relation to the God Emperor.

monte wrote:
Grey knights weren't an original chapter so they dont have a primarch. also, they are more of a branch of the Ordo Malleus, so they wont have successor chapters

Yes they were. What you mean to say is that they weren't originally a Legion. They were founded as a Chapter.

tgjensen wrote:
Nonsense. Consider the odds of all 20 caskets landing on habitable, let alone inhabited, let alone human-inhabited planets in all the galaxy. There are more Ork worlds than there are human ones, after all. And there is - by absolutely absurd magnitudes - more empty space than there are worlds. There is literally no chance the primarchs ended up where they did unless it was by design. If the Chaos gods wanted to kill the Primarchs they could have simply landed them on daemon worlds, ork worlds, probably even eldar or any other type of xenos world - or just directed them straight into a star. For whatever purpose, they were absolutely intended to survive.

I think this is because the Chaos gods never wanted to kill the Primarchs, they never wanted Horus to succeed, or Abbadon to succeed. What they wanted was an ongoing civil war which never ends. This suits them much more than an outright victory.


As for the GK's father, I'm now of the opinion that their father was the Emperor, and that the founding members where the Loyalists, of the Traitor legions, who banded together to form the GK. I think they even took on the name, and armour and made themselves into the Chapter, without technically being a part of the genetic GK that would come later. I think they lead the Chapter and trained the recruits which were pure and from the Emperor.

So if the Grey Knights don't have a Primarch, does that mean they didn't derive from a Legion? I'm looking to start an army, and I like to use conversion parts from Forge World for example.

They did not start from a Legion, correct.

At the end of the Heresy, some members were drawn from pre-existing Legions, and the rest were taken from the people most worthy. Their gene-seed was derived from the Emperor's own DNA directly, rather than through the process by which the Primarchs were made, and from whose geneseed that of all other Space Marines was then derived.