Formosa wrote:
Didn't the book say he put up a shield that deflected most of it?

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

Didn't he get hit by several and very nearly died before he killed all the AL? They were apparently well up for the job..............

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

Oh. Well maybe he just thought he would die, having too much of a sense of self-preservation to ever have tested how much he could withstand.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

Didn't he get hit by several and very nearly died before he killed all the AL? They were apparently well up for the job..............

 Formosa wrote:

david choe wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except Primarch armor is more or less superficial then truly functional. Corax, Angron, Fulgrim, etc all wade through fire without giving a damn, and are able to tank the blows of each other (which rip apart tanks and space marines) and only receive mild bruising of the flesh. Plus every single weapon that has killed a Primarch has been either supernatural or outright ignores durability. Curze, Sanguinius, Manus, and Horus all fell to such weapons.

Also, excuse me as I laugh my ass off at any idea of 40K being remotely "realistic" and not blatant fantasy. The very concept of space marines and melee even existing is firmly centered in fantasy.

The way I like to think of it is that after millenia of ballistic warfare beings the primary means of killing people, ballistic armour evolved to the point that melee became viable again, since bullets and lasers were barely doing diddly squat.

Except not only is that clearly not the case, but armor evolving would not suddenly bring back melee weapons, it would make them MORE ineffective, because they would generate less kinetic energy then a gun. Suddenly having better armor doesn't mean swords come back, it means people start using bigger guns with more efficient ammo loads at penning targets.... like what happens in real life. Especially chainweapons, which are fething stupid in absolutely every way and have no right to penetrate armor at all. Were your theory true, nothing besides power weapons would exist in 40K, except even that wouldn't make sense, as there's still plasma guns, meltas, grav guns, railguns, gauss guns, etc.

By that logic, tanks would be ramming each other opposed to developing HEAT and Sabot rounds and increasing cannon sizes to 100mm+ as armor advanced over WWII and simple solid slugs no longer did the job. Or early firearms would have been completely abandoned due to their inability to penetrate fully armored Chevaliers instead of adding more gunpowder.

"Armor advanced to such a degree" is an idiotic excuse that does not work at all in practice. If armor truly advanced to such a degree, then no weapons would work, because melee is even further lacking the kinetic energy of bullets, or the raw thermal energy of lasers and plasma. And that's clearly not the case at all in 40K. Hell, people in 40k can regularly carry weapons the size of a rifle that can melt an MBT down to a warped pile of scrap metal.

40K is pure fantasy. There's no form of logic to get around this. It has always been just Warhammer Fantasy in Space, and are best could be called a fantasy space opera or "science fantasy", although that word combination is of itself an oxymoron.

and what if that armour advanced to the point that even advanced weaponry could not dent it, or advanced at a pace that ranged weaponry could not match, theoretically speaking this could warrant a kind of come back of weapons that are designed to be used at extreme short range to punch through this armour, or close combat weapons to take advantage of weak points that ranged weapons don't have the accuracy to hit.

there is also the shock factor to consider, its pretty awful seeing your mates blown apart next to you, its even worse to see that your weapons are doing nothing and the armoured behemoth is now punching people to death, it also clears out buildings etc much faster knowing that the enemy cannot effectively hurt you and they know the same.

just because in our current age such things are "impossible" and "stupid" doesn't mean that it cant and wont happen, go back to the 1800's and tell someone that we will be able to destroy cities from the other side of the planet with flying machines and wars will be fought with giant metal boxes that are immune to rifles, you would be laughed at.

This. Such armour that would be almost immune to any kind of small arms fire would be exceedingly expensive and only used by the specialist of Special Forces (see: Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition). In my headcanon, Power Armour is immune to everything but Plasma and similar weaponry, which can be deflected by Terminator and Artificer Armour. Why? Because technology and alloys have advanced to the point that only the hottest of materials can weaken them enough to be penetrated (It's been forty fething thousand years, look at how far we've come in just the last 500, and you think that's impossible?). And this is now why we have assault marines and the like, because a.) psychological effect of seeing a monster smashing an entire squad without taking a scratch using a friggin knife and b.) The only way to penetrate this armour is at extremely close range, where the accuracy necessary to hit those joints and other weak spots is available.

What a stupid logic....anything that close combat can do... Range can do better. If you were to suggest that special diamond tip chain sword can cut armor...then they can make a saw weapon with the same diamond tip that can shoot out like a catapult....

Human muscle can't never beat ballistic projectile....strength

Unless it is something like Dune shield...where fast moving will be block out....so slow hand held knife can penitrate THe shield....oh wait..they even have slow bullet or missile thAtteavel so slow that it can penetrate the shield.

When you travel to the future can you bring me the lottery numbers, as you clearly know everything that can possibly happen, must be quite the gift.

We know that NOW with our current understanding that it is silly, what we don't know is what could happen, how can we?

in a thousand years time ballistic tech might be utterly obsolete, personal weaponry might become the norm and then the future version of you might pop on the future version bof dakka and say "don't be stupid, why would we use guns when we have the butter knife 5000 and we can melt armour with that better than some guns, stupid newbs"

 Shidank wrote:
You seem angry, David

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
You seem angry, David

more like annoying

 Shidank wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
You seem angry, David

more like annoying

Watch those suffixes, mang.

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
You seem angry, David

more like annoying

Watch those suffixes, mang.

What are you talking about?

 Shidank wrote:
Thanks, buddy.

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Thanks, buddy.

really? six posts to talk about grammar? This is how flame starts.

david choe wrote:
really? six posts to talk about grammar? This is how flame starts.

 Shidank wrote:
Should you need to continue, I invite you to PM me so that we don't take up any more of the thread.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

Didn't he get hit by several and very nearly died before he killed all the AL? They were apparently well up for the job..............

If he did it wasn't anywhere vital. He didn't have a helmet or anything on, a headshot was probably what he was worrying about. Need to reread it.

 Shidank wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Thanks, buddy.

really? six posts to talk about grammar? This is how flame starts.

Technically, 3 over grammar, one being polite, one correcting your assertion of how flames start, and then your irritated response asserting that this is how flames start.

Should you need to continue, I invite you to PM me so that we don't take up any more of the thread.

david choe wrote:
don't bother to PM me. I don't like trash in general... not saying you are one.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It probably really does just come down to different writers.

Also, did the bolter rounds incapacitate Guilliman in any significant way? He might take damage but recover quickly, as Primarchs seem to do.

I don't think they hit him, it was more 'if they hit me, I'll die' kinda thing.

Didn't he get hit by several and very nearly died before he killed all the AL? They were apparently well up for the job..............

If he did it wasn't anywhere vital. He didn't have a helmet or anything on, a headshot was probably what he was worrying about. Need to reread it.

just reading it - he gets hit in the:

Shoulder, lower back, right hip, left side, chest, left hip, head

not all fully penetrate but: - at one point "he fell, he couln't get up. ......he couldn't see"

 j31c3n wrote:
Ferrus Manus and the Emperor reportedly fought so hard it shattered mountains when they met on Medusa, and some really old fluff once implied that Ferrus literally picked up an entire mountain.

david choe wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

david choe wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except Primarch armor is more or less superficial then truly functional. Corax, Angron, Fulgrim, etc all wade through fire without giving a damn, and are able to tank the blows of each other (which rip apart tanks and space marines) and only receive mild bruising of the flesh. Plus every single weapon that has killed a Primarch has been either supernatural or outright ignores durability. Curze, Sanguinius, Manus, and Horus all fell to such weapons.

Also, excuse me as I laugh my ass off at any idea of 40K being remotely "realistic" and not blatant fantasy. The very concept of space marines and melee even existing is firmly centered in fantasy.

The way I like to think of it is that after millenia of ballistic warfare beings the primary means of killing people, ballistic armour evolved to the point that melee became viable again, since bullets and lasers were barely doing diddly squat.

Except not only is that clearly not the case, but armor evolving would not suddenly bring back melee weapons, it would make them MORE ineffective, because they would generate less kinetic energy then a gun. Suddenly having better armor doesn't mean swords come back, it means people start using bigger guns with more efficient ammo loads at penning targets.... like what happens in real life. Especially chainweapons, which are fething stupid in absolutely every way and have no right to penetrate armor at all. Were your theory true, nothing besides power weapons would exist in 40K, except even that wouldn't make sense, as there's still plasma guns, meltas, grav guns, railguns, gauss guns, etc.

By that logic, tanks would be ramming each other opposed to developing HEAT and Sabot rounds and increasing cannon sizes to 100mm+ as armor advanced over WWII and simple solid slugs no longer did the job. Or early firearms would have been completely abandoned due to their inability to penetrate fully armored Chevaliers instead of adding more gunpowder.

"Armor advanced to such a degree" is an idiotic excuse that does not work at all in practice. If armor truly advanced to such a degree, then no weapons would work, because melee is even further lacking the kinetic energy of bullets, or the raw thermal energy of lasers and plasma. And that's clearly not the case at all in 40K. Hell, people in 40k can regularly carry weapons the size of a rifle that can melt an MBT down to a warped pile of scrap metal.

40K is pure fantasy. There's no form of logic to get around this. It has always been just Warhammer Fantasy in Space, and are best could be called a fantasy space opera or "science fantasy", although that word combination is of itself an oxymoron.

and what if that armour advanced to the point that even advanced weaponry could not dent it, or advanced at a pace that ranged weaponry could not match, theoretically speaking this could warrant a kind of come back of weapons that are designed to be used at extreme short range to punch through this armour, or close combat weapons to take advantage of weak points that ranged weapons don't have the accuracy to hit.

there is also the shock factor to consider, its pretty awful seeing your mates blown apart next to you, its even worse to see that your weapons are doing nothing and the armoured behemoth is now punching people to death, it also clears out buildings etc much faster knowing that the enemy cannot effectively hurt you and they know the same.

just because in our current age such things are "impossible" and "stupid" doesn't mean that it cant and wont happen, go back to the 1800's and tell someone that we will be able to destroy cities from the other side of the planet with flying machines and wars will be fought with giant metal boxes that are immune to rifles, you would be laughed at.

This. Such armour that would be almost immune to any kind of small arms fire would be exceedingly expensive and only used by the specialist of Special Forces (see: Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition). In my headcanon, Power Armour is immune to everything but Plasma and similar weaponry, which can be deflected by Terminator and Artificer Armour. Why? Because technology and alloys have advanced to the point that only the hottest of materials can weaken them enough to be penetrated (It's been forty fething thousand years, look at how far we've come in just the last 500, and you think that's impossible?). And this is now why we have assault marines and the like, because a.) psychological effect of seeing a monster smashing an entire squad without taking a scratch using a friggin knife and b.) The only way to penetrate this armour is at extremely close range, where the accuracy necessary to hit those joints and other weak spots is available.

What a stupid logic....anything that close combat can do... Range can do better. If you were to suggest that special diamond tip chain sword can cut armor...then they can make a saw weapon with the same diamond tip that can shoot out like a catapult....

Human muscle can't never beat ballistic projectile....strength

Unless it is something like Dune shield...where fast moving will be block out....so slow hand held knife can penitrate THe shield....oh wait..they even have slow bullet or missile thAtteavel so slow that it can penetrate the shield.

When you travel to the future can you bring me the lottery numbers, as you clearly know everything that can possibly happen, must be quite the gift.

We know that NOW with our current understanding that it is silly, what we don't know is what could happen, how can we?

in a thousand years time ballistic tech might be utterly obsolete, personal weaponry might become the norm and then the future version of you might pop on the future version bof dakka and say "don't be stupid, why would we use guns when we have the butter knife 5000 and we can melt armour with that better than some guns, stupid newbs"

Dude, the point is anything that is powerful as a hand weapon, you can launch it as a missile weapon.

Example...in Star War. light saber... a hand held laser sword. Guess what... you have laser blaster.

A powersword is like a Plasma gun or a Meltagun....

You don't get it. Once your tech base pass using your muscle... hand held weapons is never as powerful as range because why get close when you can shoot. If your armor is so tough... you need a sword to open up.. think of that logic. A bomb or grenade or a powerful gun can't crack it?

Just stop with this stupid argument...it is just a game and rule of cool wins. Don't defend the concept of rule of cool with your logic.. it just makes it dumb and annoying.