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 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I enjoyed it tbh.
Better than the other 3.

The gene pool has been soiled, youth these days have an attention span of an amoebae.
It is the same in gaming, eye candy is more important than story or a good game-play.

Did you know archaeologists have discovered writings from over over 2000 years ago where the author complains about how spoiled, vapid and unworthy the next generation is turning out to be?

 Kojiro wrote:
The TF IP is long and extremely rich. Yes it has it's bad parts but in the huge mess that is all the various continuities there is some real gems to be found.

Which is why I recommended IDW's More Than Meets The Eye and Robots In Disguise ongoing series when they were available for cheap earlier this month. They're not perfect, but they are damn good.

The real question is if Bay had made a film that appealed more to fans, would it have been as successful? Could it have been more successful? I always felt it would be easy to give fans something more to love that would have cost nothing.

There is no question in my mind that a movie that appealed to Transformers fans would be just as successful, if not more so, than what Bay created. The Transformers movie for Transformers fans would lose the American Pie crowd by dropping the "come point and laugh at the freaks" aspect, but you don't need to sell your soul to make an action movie that people like.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Didn't they already use that approach in the live action movies?
And Beast Wars, where Optimus is a GORILLA?
And Shattered Glass?
And Armada, where Optimus is the core of a combiner and can grab other robots for strength?
And G1, where Optimus becomes a hyperaggressive zombie by the third season?

Well that's a jumble of questions. First up, Beast Wars had Optimus Primal, not Prime. Different character, go nuts. Armada Prime is still Prime, just with new abilities and 'zombie' Prime is just a phase. What they did in the movies is indeed slap names about everywhere, that's not in dispute. Whether or not they should have is the debate.

But let's focus on Shattered Glass for a moment. SG is an alternate reality. By definition for an alternate reality to work you need a few things, but most notably you need a normal reality. This I feel goes more towards supporting my point I think than against it. The only reason you can have SG characters is because there exists an established perception of the 'normal' character. If names are allowed to be given out at random then continuity- or even consistent divergences from it like SG- ceases to be possible.

Names are short hand descriptions, identifiers. All descriptions should endeavour to be accurate, lest they become useless. It's the difference between being able to say 'Ironhide is in the Transformers film' and 'there is a robot called Ironhide in the Transformers film'. Bay's (and several of Hasbro's) names are meaningless nametags. Bumblebee could have been called Windcharger- at least Windcharger is a camero. Ratchet could have been called Hoist, at least then the green/yellow 4x4 emergency vehicle would have been accurate. Ironhide could have been called Trailbreaker, who is a big black 4x4 with guns hanging off of him.... But fans would have appreciated that.

And in the live action film, he is insane and callous.
Seriosuly, he let Chicago fall.
And, decided to rescue Sam gf rather than crash the ship into the control pillar.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And in the live action film, he is insane and callous.
Seriosuly, he let Chicago fall.
And, decided to rescue Sam gf rather than crash the ship into the control pillar.

Indeed, the characterization of Prime- one of his strongest defining traits- was just another thing Bay got wildly wrong. Prime is, in all (non Bay) versions, basically a robot Captain America (right down to the red, white and blue colour scheme), willing to take take the high road and make whatever sacrifices need to be made. Bay's Prime executes wounded, helpless prisoners for belonging to a different political party. That's in addition to all the plot induced stupidity displayed by characters.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And in the live action film, he is insane and callous.
Seriosuly, he let Chicago fall.
And, decided to rescue Sam gf rather than crash the ship into the control pillar.

Dude, lighten up, it's ONLY chi-town.

Not like it's a real city or anything (Sydney gets blown up in a lot of crap SF movies, for example. Get over it.).

And as for continuity being ignored ... WTF? It's based on a comic/cartoon to sell toys to kids. They've NEVER had a pristine continuity. See also Marvel - who will change theirs at least once a year.

Not like it's a real city or anything (Sydney gets blown up in a lot of crap SF movies, for example. Get over it.).
r.

I hate to break it to you, but you're on a deathworld. Thats not movies, Sydney really is getting blown up all the time by angry flora and fauna.

Australia is so badass even Godzilla steers clear.

 Frazzled wrote:

Australia is so badass even Godzilla steers clear.

Not true. Australia is the site of Godzilla's greatest triumph.

I stand corrected!

Where is your god now?

 Ouze wrote:
Where is your god now?

Spin-offs are potentially good. Spin-offs means Transformers movies not made by the same people who made the other movies gak. It's still possible that executive meddling resulting from a misguided belief that Orci and Kurtzman's crap is what made them popular will make the spin-offs just as bad, but we might get some proper Transformers movies out of it.

 AlexHolker wrote:
It's still possible that executive meddling resulting from a misguided belief that Orci and Kurtzman's crap is what made them popular will make the spin-offs just as bad, but we might get some proper Transformers movies out of it.

Orci and Kurtzman I don't believe are the problem. They're also responsible for TFrime which despite keeping the Bay forms for Bumblebee and Prime (though doing away with the flames) was excellent. The only difference is Bay is gone. Could be coincidence but I've spent money on Prime- toys and DVDs- that I didn't (and won't) on Bay. To this fan at least they appear to know and respect the source material in a way that Bay simply doesn't.