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 Soladrin wrote:
This is why I need pills.

Transformers 4 is the only movie I have ever walked out on. That movie is worse then cancer.

Considering both my parents died from cancer you might reconsider that a little.

 kronk wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
This is why I need pills.

Transformers 4 is the only movie I have ever walked out on. That movie is worse then cancer.

I walked out on The Blair Witch Project. What a complete piece of gak.

But you missed the end! It was important to see that person standing in a corner! Such payoff!

 kronk wrote:
The Lego Movie was great.

no no,

It was Awesome!

Well at least I can say I didn't contribute to its success.

The TF IP is long and extremely rich. Yes it has it's bad parts but in the huge mess that is all the various continuities there is some real gems to be found. Bay failed to bring a recognisable, remotely nostalgic version of the property to the screen (which is not to say it wasn't successful or enjoyable).

The real question is if Bay had made a film that appealed more to fans, would it have been as successful? Could it have been more successful? I always felt it would be easy to give fans something more to love that would have cost nothing.

Guess the Chinese bucks made the difference.

2014 is also the year Edge of Tomorrow came out. Think of it that way and you'll feel better.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I enjoyed it tbh.
Better than the other 3.

The gene pool has been soiled, youth these days have an attention span of an amoebae.
It is the same in gaming, eye candy is more important than story or a good game-play.

.....yes. it is obviously the death of cinema. In the fifties they had eye candy like the universal monsters.........

Someone in this thread has been hittin' the sauce - and hittin' it hot!

All I'm saying is their is nothing wrong with watching a robot in a trench coat with smgs

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
All I'm saying is their is nothing wrong with watching a robot in a trench coat with smgs

There's nothing wrong with it, nor is there anything wrong with enjoying it. I enjoyed Pacific Rim for similar reasons. Big robots, awesome effects, much devastation.

But that's never been the issue I took with Bay's TF world. The issue I took is that movies presented by Bay bear only the nametags of the IP. Almost nothing besides Optimus was discernable as what it was supposed to be. While there's no hard and fast rules for film adaptions when long time fans don't recognize your adapted characters I think it's fair to say you missed the point. Imagine if someone redubbed Aliens. The marine are now referred to as Astartes or Space Marines (instead of colonial), incinerator is called a flamer, pulse rifles are now called bolters, motion tracker is now an auspex and at the end Ripley drives a dreadnought against the evil Hive Tyrant (and so on). Slapping a few names on things doesn't bring an IP to life, especially when those things only superficially resemble their source material. Those changes would mean nothing to someone with no idea about 40k and the movie would likely be just as enjoyable for them. They could care less if you call the gun a bolter or a pulse rifle. But for those wanting to see bolters on screen they'd fall decidedly flat and calling it a 40k movie would feel extremely tacked on.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
.....yes. it is obviously the death of cinema. In the fifties they had eye candy like the universal monsters.........

They are called b-movies for a reason, these days the A and tripple AAA games have become the B movies/games, i understand that porn movies have flimsy story lines to get down to the "action" quick but now Hollywood movies do the same.

The robots and silly action was never the problem with Transformers movies. The humans make it horrible. Seriously, who the hell gives two gaks about what the horrible actors are doing? (and yes, the acting in those movies is atrocious).

I guess I paddle my own boat...I thought Interstellar was the best movie of the year.

 Kojiro wrote:
But that's never been the issue I took with Bay's TF world. The issue I took is that movies presented by Bay bear only the nametags of the IP.

You do know that Hasbro had a huge part in development of the movies, right? Hell, the entire reason that the 2nd one happened is because Hasbro wanted the Fallen and the original Primes in a movie and said it was happening despite Bay and his team wanting nothing to do with that entire concept.

Saying it only bears the "nametag" of the IP is disregarding 30 years of multiversal concepts of name reuse and alternate universes in general.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Guess the Chinese bucks made the difference.

2014 is also the year Edge of Tomorrow came out. Think of it that way and you'll feel better.

I finally saw that a few weeks ago in my Hotel room. It was either that or Bikini Beach Party II. I have to say that Edge of Tomorrow held my attention long enough that I stayed on that channel. I was entertained.

Loved the first film - great work - 2nd was not great (way too long and dancing robot rubbish), 3rd was ok and will get round to watching the fourth at some point.


this year Kingsmen has been stand out but last year there were many great films - Edge of Tomorrow, Cap A 2, Maleficent, Xmen Days of FP,Dawn of the planet of AP
Dracula, Guardians and Exodus were also pretty good......

Lot worse out there - usually anything by "all flash and no substance" C Nolan.............

I suppose movies like these are the Call of Duties of the cinemas.

For better or for worse Hollywood loves these movies for some reason, they are making more of them.

I liked the first movie, 2nd movie was ok. 3rd was the one I liked the least, 4th was ok. I found some things in every movie that were face palming ,but thats Hollyweird.

I would like to see one of the movies showcase the Maximals and the Predacons and some better actors wouldn't hurt either.

From the rumors for Transformers 5 it looks like they are going to possibly feature Unicron.

From the rumors for Transformers 5 it looks like they are going to possibly feature Unicron.

I look forward to their pathetic attempt to somehow top Orson Wells.

 Frazzled wrote:

From the rumors for Transformers 5 it looks like they are going to possibly feature Unicron.

I look forward to their pathetic attempt to somehow top Orson Wells.

I hope they don't try.. Although my mum and brother went to see the live War Of The Worlds and they digitised Richard Burton for the narration. According to them it was awesome. But I don't suppose Bay will think of doing something similar to Orson Wells

Personally for me 'A Walk Among The Tombstones' was my favourite movie of '14

 Frazzled wrote:

From the rumors for Transformers 5 it looks like they are going to possibly feature Unicron.

I look forward to their pathetic attempt to somehow top Orson Wells.

Supposedly, IF they do it, Unicron will be more like in Armada and every other non-G1 cartoon version where he's a god and force of nature more than a character.

Also, check out Unicron in Transformers Prime, he's pretty boss, whether he's the core that Earth formed around or his time possessing an undead Megatron.

 Platuan4th wrote:
You do know that Hasbro had a huge part in development of the movies, right?

I'm sure they did, but Hasbro is a toy company who wants to make lots of toys and lots of money off those toys. That's their primary, possibly only concern.

Hell, the entire reason that the 2nd one happened is because Hasbro wanted the Fallen and the original Primes in a movie and said it was happening despite Bay and his team wanting nothing to do with that entire concept.

Assuming Bay was contractually obligated to make a second film, that seems dubious. Hasbro released no toy I know of for the Primes which makes their interest in them unusual. Even if someone at Hasbro had that pull, the portrayal of the Primes as some fatalistic bunch of utter idiots is terrible. But no one is accusing Bay of caring for the IP.

Saying it only bears the "nametag" of the IP is disregarding 30 years of multiversal concepts of name reuse and alternate universes in general.

And I think that's a terrible idea, driven at least partially by trademarking. I'm all for alternate universes where the same character exists but slightly different. Maybe they're evil or damaged in some way (or not damaged if their 'traditional' version is). I am all for that. What I think is stupid is creating a whole new character and slapping a recognised name on it. It has always been a dumb idea when previously used and it's a dumb idea when Bay uses it.

 Kojiro wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
You do know that Hasbro had a huge part in development of the movies, right?

I'm sure they did, but Hasbro is a toy company who wants to make lots of toys and lots of money off those toys. That's their primary, possibly only concern.

If you've ever attended a Hasbro marketing panel at Botcon, you'd know that's bunk. They have an entire section of the company that's dedicated to maintaining and developing the story. It's why Aligned even exists as a concept.

 Kojiro wrote:

Assuming Bay was contractually obligated to make a second film, that seems dubious. Hasbro released no toy I know of for the Primes which makes their interest in them unusual.

Hasbro HAS produced Original 13/Prime figures:

Fallen: Not even counting the several movie figures of the Fallen, they produced a Dreamwave style Fallen in the Titanium series:



Vector Prime: Got a figure during Cybertron, which received a number of repaints, including being repainted into another Original 13 member, Alpha Trion:



Nexus Prime: received a figure through the Collector's Club over 5 years:



Alpha Trion: in addition to his Vector Prime repaint, he has an official figure from the EX Gokin line:



Also, since Optimus Prime is officially a member of the Original 13, every single Optimus Prime figure released for Aligned(War for Cybertron, Fall of Cybertron, Prime, Rescue Bots, Robots in Disguise) is one.

Hell, they didn't even exist as a concept in IDW until Hasbro swooped down and told them to add them.

On a Transformers note... found this lol.

 Platuan4th wrote:
If you've ever attended a Hasbro marketing panel at Botcon, you'd know that's bunk. They have an entire section of the company that's dedicated to maintaining and developing the story. It's why Aligned even exists as a concept.

I'm sure there are individuals who really do care, just like there are people in GW that really care about the IP. But Hasbro is a huge company, with shareholders and out to make a profit. I'm sure there are people who manage things like the Aligned continuity but I'm also sure that, if it's profitable enough (or too costly) that fiscal responsibility comes first.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Hasbro HAS produced Original 13/Prime figures:

I meant they haven't released any based on the movie depiction. Hasbro apparently pushed for a bunch of suicidal nutbags that got no development, no individuality, no names even AND they never made toys. To top it off they're all complete morons. Forgive me but I can't see why Hasbro- a toy company- would be so forceful getting such a depiction. If they got a toyline out of it, sure but this is just crappy lore with no toy. It serves no purpose.

Also, since Optimus Prime is officially a member of the Original 13, every single Optimus Prime figure released for Aligned(War for Cybertron, Fall of Cybertron, Prime, Rescue Bots, Robots in Disguise) is one.

Oh come on, be honest here. When Hasbro said they wanted 'the original Primes' in the film they were not for a moment, not one second, referring to Optimus. It also contradicts the movie itself where he's clearly identified as a descendant of the Primes, like it's some sort of bloodline type thing. Plus we all know he's an original only in some continuities. In G1 he begins life as a dock worker called Orion Pax.

But this still doesn't address my point- that creating a new character and slapping a recognised name on it is- for anyone interested in continuity as you claim Hasbro is- a stupid idea, done for no reason other than recognition (and the benefits of said recognition). It's not the action of someone- Bay or Hasbro- interested in preserving the integrity of their lore or continuity.

 Kojiro wrote:
In G1 he begins life as a dock worker called Orion Pax.

In Sunbow G1, yes. In Marvel G1(which predates the cartoon, BTW), he was a gladiatorial fighter working his way up the ranks of the Autobot chain of command. And you want suicidal? Marvel Optimus died like four times, including having himself blown up because he allowed video game inhabitants to be harmed. Suicidal idiot Primes is entirely accurate to the earliest source material there is.

You're completely missing my point in that there IS no real continuity as you mean it to maintain the "integrity" of. Name reuse is just a symptom of that. Continuity in Transformers only matters within the single universe/series, not as a whole, and that's what Hasbro cares about maintaining and planning, as they have since the beginning and as should. Takara cared about all continuity connecting to everything and all that got us freakin' Kiss Players:







All of ^ that is in canon continuity with the G1 cartoon. Still think there's integrity in this franchise's overarching "continuity"?

 Platuan4th wrote:

You're completely missing my point in that there IS no real continuity as you mean it to maintain the "integrity" of. Name reuse is just a symptom of that.

No it seems you're missing mine, which is slapping old names on ENTIRELY new characters is a bad idea. It has always been a bad idea It was bad when they did it previously and it's bad when Bay does it. Your only point seems to be that they've screwed it up a bunch so far (not something I dispute) so why not keep screwing up? I mean isn't that one of the reasons for the Aligned continuity? To bring things into some semblance of consistency and establish a primary canon?

 Kojiro wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

You're completely missing my point in that there IS no real continuity as you mean it to maintain the "integrity" of. Name reuse is just a symptom of that.

No it seems you're missing mine, which is slapping old names on ENTIRELY new characters is a bad idea. It has always been a bad idea It was bad when they did it previously and it's bad when Bay does it. Your only point seems to be that they've screwed it up a bunch so far (not something I dispute) so why not keep screwing up? I mean isn't that one of the reasons for the Aligned continuity? To bring things into some semblance of consistency and establish a primary canon?

I get your point, I just don't agree with it. Personally, I don't see name reuse as a bad thing, especially since we're talking about different universes for each use of the name, excepting Beast Wars/G1 Sunbow, of course. But then, Beast Wars Megatron specifically points out he named himself after G1 Sunbow Megatron.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I get your point, I just don't agree with it. Personally, I don't see name reuse as a bad thing, especially since we're talking about different universes for each use of the name, excepting Beast Wars/G1 Sunbow, of course.

So you'd be completely ok with say, if the next TF movie (a reboot) features Optimus Prime as a hyper aggressive Decepticon seeker jet? With Ratchet as a dim witted Dinobot? Or Swoop as a tank and the leader of the Sweeps (who are a bunch of sharkticons)? Just slap the names on whatever bot you like?

Didn't they already use that approach in the live action movies?
And Beast Wars, where Optimus is a GORILLA?
And Shattered Glass?
And Armada, where Optimus is the core of a combiner and can grab other robots for strength?
And G1, where Optimus becomes a hyperaggressive zombie by the third season?

The audience adapts.