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Codex: Legion of the damned.
Unit: Legion of the damned.

It's a real shame that some of the units mentioned are awful, because most of them look good and ooze character and background - especially the Chaos units.

If GW could design some balanced rules, you wouldn't have so many redundant units.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
It's a real shame that some of the units mentioned are awful, because most of them look good and ooze character and background - especially the Chaos units.

If GW could design some balanced rules, you wouldn't have so many redundant units.

If

 Drasius wrote:
Oh yes, the Sun Shark. Can generate bombs after dropping one on a 2+, but since it doesn't start with any, can't drop one to generate more. One of the more lulzy bits of rules writing they've managed. I'd still rate Vespid as worse than the bomber with no bombs.

Also the sun-shark has some pansy ass bombs.

S5 AP5.

Jeeze, because you know what the Tau really need? More S5 AP5.

Marines: I'm going with tactical terminators or assault marines. Maybe Shrike, because not only is he awful he makes your WHOLE ARMY awful.

CSM: Posessed or Mutilators

Orks: Killa Kanz (Gwarsh let's nerf them and also make them cost 40% more) or Wartrakks.

Tau: Vespids

Tyranid: Biovores

Necron: Probably destroyers at this point, since flayed ones got better? Maybe Lychguard.

Eldar: rangers are god awful. Idc what people say about the codex but rangers are a lump of turd.

Fun challenge mode: compare any multiple of these units to a wraithknight and laugh at GWs point system.

13 possessed=wraithknight.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Orks.. Deff dread, nobz unit, kans, gork naught, mega nobz, battle wagon, ect. Ect.

Mega nobz and battlewagons?!?!

Well I don't use meganobz myself, but I have seen them do some work.

But battlewagons? Battlewagons are easily one of the best units in the codex. Turn 2 charge with 40 boyz? Yes please.

Yeah, saying that Meganobz and BWs are bad units just means you either don't play orks or don't know how to use them properly. Even standard Nob units can be good at taking apart vehicles, ordinance and light infantry.

Battle wagon since the point increase for no reason, plus the big nurf to deff roller.
Been playing Orks since 2nd Ed it's the only army I ever owned.
Not much tactics when it comes to BW drive forwarded with kff mek and dump your 20 boyz, really hard tactic to figure out.

and don't forget the mega nobz, who cost as much as a terminator and suffer the same downfalls as them. To expensive, no dakka, and they have to have a 110point Transpoirt to be slightly useful.

the_scotsman wrote:


Necron: Probably destroyers at this point, since flayed ones got better? Maybe Lychguard.

While having to admit to not having tried destroyers, they too got a lot better in the new codex. Multiple wounds, reanimation, jsj and hurtful dakka. I would rank them as one of the best units in the codex, absolutely not the worst. In fact the destroyer cult us likely the next purchase my murder robots are going to see.

the_scotsman wrote:
Marines: I'm going with tactical terminators or assault marines. Maybe Shrike, because not only is he awful he makes your WHOLE ARMY awful.

CSM: Posessed or Mutilators

Orks: Killa Kanz (Gwarsh let's nerf them and also make them cost 40% more) or Wartrakks.

Tau: Vespids

Tyranid: Biovores

Necron: Probably destroyers at this point, since flayed ones got better? Maybe Lychguard.

Eldar: rangers are god awful. Idc what people say about the codex but rangers are a lump of turd.

Fun challenge mode: compare any multiple of these units to a wraithknight and laugh at GWs point system.

13 possessed=wraithknight.

In what universe are biovores worse than pyrovores?

Gonna have to disagree on commissars being the worst unit in the guard codex. In a foot guard list they are amazing. I run 250 men all of which are MSU apart from 2 35 man blobs of conscripts (which I put my commissars in). This means I get to roll my orders on LD 9 which is great for FRFSRF and Forwards for the Emprah!

I don't really want them to do anything in combat as if they do get into it I want them to fold asap so my army can they shot the crap out of the enemy unit next turn. If I do need them to hold the worst thing that can happen is a conscript gets killed.

Overall, Commissars are an amazing unit for conscripts. If you are going full blob guard you put your priest in your guardsmen blobs (with voxs) and you commissars in conscript blobs and this way you are almost guaranteed orders to go off across your entire army.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Necrons. Annihilation barge. And that says something about the units in the codex!

I would have said the C'Tan or Monolith. I still use my barges, not too shabby when compared to other options with similar firepower. Wont ever use my C'tan though, and wont ever buy a monolith.

For daemons - Furies of chaos. LD2 jump infantry. Only redeeming thing is they are nasty cheap, however they don't have legit models. The LD2 is for when you win combat and the entire unit explodes from instability.
After the furies, probably one of the various chariots daemons have access to. No one wants a 10/10/10 HP2 vehicle that costs as much as the daemon chariots.

For Space Wolves - Probably anything with the "Claws" suffix. Blood claws, sky claws and swift claws. BS/WS3 is a huge hit to a marine. GH/WG do everything BC do, but better.
After that, I dunno... thralls? Maybe one of the imperial tanks?

Could never find a use for Landspeeders in Marines or Sentinels in IG.
Not saying they're utterly useless just cant find a role for them compared to other units or slots.
Too weak armor and HP-wise in respective slots.

 Ratius wrote:
Could never find a use for Landspeeders

Typhoons are excellent blob killers, if your opponent has bad spacing. A speeder with 2x multi-meltas can deep strike behind a vehicle and pop it. A well-placed outflanking LSS with 5 chainsword scouts can sweep most troops off an objective.

DE: Hellions and Bloodbrides. The former are basically comparable to Reavers, but worse in every way. The latter are elite wyches. Just think about that for a moment. Wyches are, at best, a tarpit unit... and someone at GW decided that what DE really needed was an Elite tarpit. So, do these super-wyches bring anything great to the table? Fleshbane? Rending? Shred? Nope. I think they get some extra S3 attacks though. Because if there's anything DE need, it's S3 attacks.

Not units per se, but I'd also like to nominate the entire DE wargear section. Why does my archon - who supposedly has access to the deadliest weapons available - only have access to 4 weapons, 2 of which are outright worthless and none are remotely worth their cost. Furthermore, why are our weapons so pitiful in general? I can accept not having high strength, but where's all our AP2? Where's our Fleshbane? Where's our Poison 2+ or even 3+? Shouldn't Haemonculi weapons have diabolical effects that makes them rightly feared? Instead, the best they can offer is a weapon that occasionally ignores armour, and a glove that makes an enemy it wounds (no small feat for a S3 character) a little dizzy.

Necrons: Probably monolith and scarabs. The nerf to their armour-shredding ability was understandable. The cost increase and reduction in save were just baffling. With regard to the monolith, it's now lost everything that made it useful and got nothing in exchange.

IG: Rough Riders, Ogryns. The former don't really seem to fit in anywhere. They don't synergise with anything, and it seems you could accomplish better results just using ranged weapons. Ogryns seem to be a counter-assault unit, but one which can't actually beat other assault units, require constant babysitting and have no mobility.

Orks would be killa kans I'd say. If a marine looks at the they go down.

Tau would have to be vespids...nuff said.

And grey Knights I'd almost say the dreadnought.

 vipoid wrote:
IG: Rough Riders, Ogryns. The former don't really seem to fit in anywhere. They don't synergise with anything, and it seems you could accomplish better results just using ranged weapons. Ogryns seem to be a counter-assault unit, but one which can't actually beat other assault units, require constant babysitting and have no mobility.

IG: ogryns and heavy weapons squads

Ogryns are strictly worse than bullgryns. For 5 points more, ogryns go from a 5+ save to a 3+ save, and a 4+ cover save for units behind them. Bullgryns themselves are overpriced, but they're still better than ogryns.

Heavy weapons squads are roflbad. The fact that people will take 30 man blobs with 3 heavy weapons over a single heavy weapons squad really shows that. They're the unit in the game that would most benefit from IG orders, yet they're ld 7, can't take a vox, pay a 50% markup for the base unit, and are insta-dead from S6. On top of it all, they're a pain in the butt to transport. You might give them a commissar, but if he executes someone the unit is still useless. You might give them a primaris psyker for ld 9, but now you're doubling the cost of the unit. Even their bare-bones kit with mortars are strictly worse than the wyvern, which for 5 more points gets 12/10/10, another blast template, twin-linked, shred, and ignores cover. Missile launchers are stupid expensive and way worse at killing vehicles than they used to be, lascannons turn them into a static 105 point unit with T3 5+ save and 6 wounds.

I really have to disagree with everyone's view on rough riders and hellhounds. Both excel if you start them in reserves, take 5 rough riders with two flamers. They are fantastic at clearing your backfield. On the turn they arrive your rough riders move 12" and double flamer any enemy unit foolish enough to get within 12" of your table edge, as a bonus if they survive that turn your riders can now torch and inflict seven S5 Ap3 hits on the next enemy unit they see. All for a unit that costs 65 points. On the turn it arrives, hellhound will instantly remove almost any unit that gets within 24" of your table edge. True, the hellhound is overpriced, and the bane wolf and devil dog are just bad.

I don't know how people can think sentinels are the worst. 40 points for AV 12/10/10 HP2 is pretty darn meaty.

 TheSilo wrote:
IG: ogryns and heavy weapons squads

Ogryns are strictly worse than bullgryns. For 5 points more, ogryns go from a 5+ save to a 3+ save, and a 4+ cover save for units behind them. Bullgryns themselves are overpriced, but they're still better than ogryns.

Heavy weapons squads are roflbad. The fact that people will take 30 man blobs with 3 heavy weapons over a single heavy weapons squad really shows that. They're the unit in the game that would most benefit from IG orders, yet they're ld 7, can't take a vox, pay a 50% markup for the base unit, and are insta-dead from S6. On top of it all, they're a pain in the butt to transport. You might give them a commissar, but if he executes someone the unit is still useless. You might give them a primaris psyker for ld 9, but now you're doubling the cost of the unit. Even their bare-bones kit with mortars are strictly worse than the wyvern, which for 5 more points gets 12/10/10, another blast template, twin-linked, shred, and ignores cover. Missile launchers are stupid expensive and way worse at killing vehicles than they used to be, lascannons turn them into a static 105 point unit with T3 5+ save and 6 wounds.

Ugh, I forgot about heavy weapon squads.

 TheSilo wrote:

I really have to disagree with everyone's view on rough riders and hellhounds. Both excel if you start them in reserves, take 5 rough riders with two flamers. They are fantastic at clearing your backfield.

So are Wyverns - only they can do it from turn one and the other side of the field.

 TheSilo wrote:

I don't know how people can think sentinels are the worst. 40 points for AV 12/10/10 HP2 is pretty darn meaty.

Yeah, I like sentinels too. I don't think they're great, but they're certainly not the worst unit in the book.

I run 3 Armored Sentinels with 3 Plasma Cannons for 150 Pts. They are always 2" from an Ammo Dump and reroll gets hots. They always make their points back and have been awesome.

Comparing that with a 155 pt Executioner with no sponsons (3 PC templates).

Sents have 6 HPs at AV12
Executioner has 3 HPS at AV14

They are usually comparable in game. If you have a Fast Attack slot available, I highly recommend the Sentinels with that loadout. Very very good.

Pyrovores are bad but atleast i can see themm doing something in a pod.

The maleceptor however...i can't find a single use for it. Every other mc in the deck seems better while beign cheaper.

Amoras wrote:
Pyrovores are bad but atleast i can see themm doing something in a pod.

The maleceptor however...i can't find a single use for it. Every other mc in the deck seems better while beign cheaper.

I'd forgotten about that epic pile of fail.

 Chootum wrote:
I run 3 Armored Sentinels with 3 Plasma Cannons for 150 Pts. They are always 2" from an Ammo Dump and reroll gets hots. They always make their points back and have been awesome.

I don't use the ammunition dump, but I do use plasma cannon sentinels as well.

Gets hot is always a concern, but having 50pt AV12 plasma cannons is frequently useful.

the_scotsman wrote:
Marines: I'm going with tactical terminators or assault marines. Maybe Shrike, because not only is he awful he makes your WHOLE ARMY awful.

CSM: Posessed or Mutilators

Orks: Killa Kanz (Gwarsh let's nerf them and also make them cost 40% more) or Wartrakks.

Tau: Vespids

Tyranid: Biovores

Necron: Probably destroyers at this point, since flayed ones got better? Maybe Lychguard.

Eldar: rangers are god awful. Idc what people say about the codex but rangers are a lump of turd.

Fun challenge mode: compare any multiple of these units to a wraithknight and laugh at GWs point system.

13 possessed=wraithknight.

Biovores are not bad. Pyrovores are much, much worse. And Destroyers are ridiculous, as are Lychguard.

Yeah, I think the new Destroyers are great. 2 wounds gives them a lot of extra survivability, the new RP means they aren't punished for being in small units, and JSJ means they can often avoid taking return fire at all.

My only sadness is that the Destroyer Lord got made much worse as a result (JSJ really isn't what you want to see on a melee unit).

Drager wrote:

Amoras wrote:
Pyrovores are bad but atleast i can see themm doing something in a pod.

The maleceptor however...i can't find a single use for it. Every other mc in the deck seems better while beign cheaper.

I'd forgotten about that epic pile of fail.

I suppose you could argue that it's not actually in the codex. But yeah, those rules are terribad. 205 points for a ML2 psyker that only knows Powers of the Hive Mind and an awful WC2 power that does max d3 wounds, and still has to roll to hit at BS3. Who the heck has enough warp charges to cast that three times anyway? Should have been a nova power like psychic scream. Powers of the Hive mind needs to be fixed anyway, those powers are too hit or miss.

Death Korps: Either the CCS or the Quartermaster

SCIONS!: Probably the Scions themselves, that said nothing in the codex is outright terrible, I feel.

>>Insert all melee units without sufficient special rules or delivery system to actually do their fething job<<

[hint: thats most of them]

 vipoid wrote:
Yeah, I think the new Destroyers are great. 2 wounds gives them a lot of extra survivability, the new RP means they aren't punished for being in small units, and JSJ means they can often avoid taking return fire at all.

My only sadness is that the Destroyer Lord got made much worse as a result (JSJ really isn't what you want to see on a melee unit).

I think the best use for the Destroyer Lord is to stick it in a unit of Deathmarks or Flayed Ones and deep strike it in to give them extra punch. The destroyer units do not benefit overly much from having one. He is a tax, a hefty enough one to warrant some plan for him.

Tau: Aun'Shi, vespids, and outside of high AV hunting/missile pod spam, crisis suits (lets face it, the codex has better units for everything but AV14)

Eldar: Obviously wraithknights, or scatbikes. (/sarcasm just incase)

Monolith, easily.

Lychguard, particularly in an Orikanstar, are death incarnate for any assault unit. Not that they'll die to shooting too rapidly, either.

Scarabs are cheap and plentiful wound sponges, and can be produced for free.

Anni Barges aren't as good, but they are pretty durable platforms that can punish Jetbikes, among others.

Monoliths, though... Largely useless. LOS? You can do better, for much less price. Teleport? Good luck landing it. Shooting? Meh for points. They have some interesting formations, but then you're talking high point games.

They need to either return Living Metal to the original effect, or allow it to fire everything at full BS. It's stupidly slow, has terrible firing archs, etc. It just has no good use in the army, and most other armies might be amused by it, but I doubt anyone looks at a Monolith and would EVER make it a priority target. And for its point, it should be.

I disagree with the previous post about Eldar's worst unit being storm guardians, they are 72 points now, and get 2 free power weapons and 2 free melta guns (if you get 24 of them plus a vyper and stuff.. they then run 6",) and for 216 points for 24 models they are impressive.

In fact point for point storm guardians are good vs any units that are NOT close combat troops (including marines)

My candidate for the worst unit in the eldar codex is wraithblades with swords.