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Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

Imperial Guard: Rough Riders

Space Marines: Tactical Terminators


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




Hands down Captain Tycho for BA. Basically a captain who hits at ap- in combat and has a combi-melta for silly points, whoopie!
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

 juraigamer wrote:
 Cirronimbus wrote:
For Tau I'd say the worst are probably Gun Drone squadrons or possibly Sniper Drone squadrons, although I don't think either are objectively bad units, just that they compete for slots against things that are better. Special characters are a bit lackluster as well but I didn't count them.


Clearly its vespids. They are excellent ap shots, but die to a stiff breeze. Gun drones die less than these guys.


How? They have the same T and armor save.
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Hatfield, PA

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Chaos: warp talons.


Warp Talons are all that compared to those horrible Mutilators.

Skriker

CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War 
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd




St Louis

Alcibiades wrote:
 juraigamer wrote:
 Cirronimbus wrote:
For Tau I'd say the worst are probably Gun Drone squadrons or possibly Sniper Drone squadrons, although I don't think either are objectively bad units, just that they compete for slots against things that are better. Special characters are a bit lackluster as well but I didn't count them.


Clearly its vespids. They are excellent ap shots, but die to a stiff breeze. Gun drones die less than these guys.


How? They have the same T and armor save.


Gun drones can jump shoot jump.


Tycho is abysmal for his points. His dead man's hand used to ignore all armor saves, now nothing.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd have to agree for Aun'shi for tau , he's just bad all around . I like vespids , i'd like to use more vespids buts its a slot thing cause of pathfinders
   
Made in au
Commoragh-bound Peer




Commorragh

Dark Eldar - Either Wyches or the beast master and his beasts, wyches can no longer hold there own in CC and as for the beast pack, I just don't see a use for them at all in DE. But as for everything else, well everything else has a place in a DE army, no matter what you pick you can find a great way to combo it with your current army.
Although the disability to give your HQ a bike or skyboard now kind limits him, but oh well, still good
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Salvation wrote:
Dark Eldar - Either Wyches or the beast master and his beasts, wyches can no longer hold there own in CC and as for the beast pack, I just don't see a use for them at all in DE. But as for everything else, well everything else has a place in a DE army, no matter what you pick you can find a great way to combo it with your current army.


Hellions say 'hi'.

 Salvation wrote:

Although the disability to give your HQ a bike or skyboard now kind limits him, but oh well, still good


I have 2 pairs of wings just waiting to convert an HQ,..

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions. All of these units are ostensibly CC specialists but I wouldn't wager on any of them in a fight against Guardsmen, Gaunts, Fire Warriors, or Dire Avengers.
   
Made in au
Commoragh-bound Peer




Commorragh

sweetbacon wrote:
I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions.


I actually think bloodbrides are a decent unit, having 3 CC attacks (2 base + CC weapons) as the base model for 13pts makes them a really cheap Klaivex. They are actually relatively decent. However, unlike the Trueborn, Bloodbrides still have the same upgrade restrictions of regular wyches (plus incubi are just way cooler).
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Salvation wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions.


I actually think bloodbrides are a decent unit, having 3 CC attacks (2 base + CC weapons) as the base model for 13pts makes them a really cheap Klaivex. They are actually relatively decent. However, unlike the Trueborn, Bloodbrides still have the same upgrade restrictions of regular wyches (plus incubi are just way cooler).


And overwatch rips them apart incredibly easily. Even charging another CC unit, any bolt pistol shots (i.e.) will put a good bit of hurt on them, IIRC.

DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+


bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
 
   
Made in au
Commoragh-bound Peer




Commorragh

 Wolfblade wrote:
And overwatch rips them apart incredibly easily. Even charging another CC unit, any bolt pistol shots (i.e.) will put a good bit of hurt on them, IIRC.


Yeah I guess I have just been lucky with them when charging, also sometimes charging another tougher unit first isn't a bad idea, seeing as you can only overwatch once.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Salvation wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions.


I actually think bloodbrides are a decent unit, having 3 CC attacks (2 base + CC weapons) as the base model for 13pts makes them a really cheap Klaivex. They are actually relatively decent. However, unlike the Trueborn, Bloodbrides still have the same upgrade restrictions of regular wyches (plus incubi are just way cooler).


Then you remember that those attacks are at S3.

And that your elite melee unit has T3 and basically no defence outside of combat.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in au
Commoragh-bound Peer




Commorragh

 vipoid wrote:
 Salvation wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions.


I actually think bloodbrides are a decent unit, having 3 CC attacks (2 base + CC weapons) as the base model for 13pts makes them a really cheap Klaivex. They are actually relatively decent. However, unlike the Trueborn, Bloodbrides still have the same upgrade restrictions of regular wyches (plus incubi are just way cooler).


Then you remember that those attacks are at S3.

And that your elite melee unit has T3 and basically no defence outside of combat.


Yeah but S3 and T3 is the core of DE. Everything that has a part in DE (excluding Slyth and MC) has S3 and T3. DE is a glass cannon, wyches get a 4+ invul in CC and can bounce around in cover, or a 3+ jinking raider shooting at Wyches or Bloodbrides isn't the problem, the problem is that for whatever reason they decided to nerf the Wych Weapons, making regular 2 attack Wyches not worth the points and get gak on by 2 attack space marines with T4, even if the Wyches outnumber the combat squad.
The extra attack from Bloodbrides really makes them worthwhile as a points filler if you can't get incubi or grotesques (more so incubi) and they get S4 on the charge on turn 4 anyway (sometimes as early as turn 2) and turn 6 gives them +2 attacks on the charge, making them ideally S4 T3 5A for 13pts each, just keep them in a darting raider in between combat or take a few more to deny the impact of overwatch kills. I wouldn't do this for regular wyches though as they usually don't last through their first CC battle :/
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




 Salvation wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 Salvation wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
I think DE has a four way tie for worst unit between Wyches, Bloodbrides, Beast Packs, and Hellions.


I actually think bloodbrides are a decent unit, having 3 CC attacks (2 base + CC weapons) as the base model for 13pts makes them a really cheap Klaivex. They are actually relatively decent. However, unlike the Trueborn, Bloodbrides still have the same upgrade restrictions of regular wyches (plus incubi are just way cooler).


Then you remember that those attacks are at S3.

And that your elite melee unit has T3 and basically no defence outside of combat.


Yeah but S3 and T3 is the core of DE. Everything that has a part in DE (excluding Slyth and MC) has S3 and T3. DE is a glass cannon, wyches get a 4+ invul in CC and can bounce around in cover, or a 3+ jinking raider shooting at Wyches or Bloodbrides isn't the problem, the problem is that for whatever reason they decided to nerf the Wych Weapons, making regular 2 attack Wyches not worth the points and get gak on by 2 attack space marines with T4, even if the Wyches outnumber the combat squad.
The extra attack from Bloodbrides really makes them worthwhile as a points filler if you can't get incubi or grotesques (more so incubi) and they get S4 on the charge on turn 4 anyway (sometimes as early as turn 2) and turn 6 gives them +2 attacks on the charge, making them ideally S4 T3 5A for 13pts each, just keep them in a darting raider in between combat or take a few more to deny the impact of overwatch kills. I wouldn't do this for regular wyches though as they usually don't last through their first CC battle :/


If I have enough points left over to use on Bloodbrides as filler, then I probably have enough left over to use on something actually useful.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Salvation wrote:

Yeah but S3 and T3 is the core of DE. Everything that has a part in DE (excluding Slyth and MC) has S3 and T3.


Grotesques are S5 T5, Incubi are have S4 AP2 weapons and a meaningful armour save.

Furthermore, you'll notice that many of our S3 units don't actually use their strength value because they're armed with wonderful devices known as guns.

 Salvation wrote:
DE is a glass cannon


And Bloodbrides are just glass.

 Salvation wrote:
wyches get a 4+ invul in CC and can bounce around in cover


Bounce around in cover... doing what? They don't have stealth, they're only armed with pistols so why use them over warriors? Warriors can also bounce around in cover, but can actually put out some shots whilst doing so.

 Salvation wrote:
or a 3+ jinking raider


Warriors again say 'hi'.

 Salvation wrote:
shooting at Wyches or Bloodbrides isn't the problem


It's far from the only problem, but it is a big problem.

 Salvation wrote:
the problem is that for whatever reason they decided to nerf the Wych Weapons, making regular 2 attack Wyches not worth the points and get gak on by 2 attack space marines with T4, even if the Wyches outnumber the combat squad.


No, that isn't the problem. That was just a little extra nerf atop the mountain of other nerfs.

The problem is that wyches have no useful role. They're not durable, they don't hit hard and they can't even spam HWGs anymore. Bloodbrides are even worse because they have the exact same problem, but are elites.

 Salvation wrote:

The extra attack from Bloodbrides really makes them worthwhile as a points filler if you can't get incubi or grotesques


No, it doesn't. Not even close. They don't do anything and they don't add anything to an army. They're not even cheap. if you have the points to blow on bloodbrides, then you have enough points for a better unit instead.

 Salvation wrote:
and they get S4 on the charge on turn 4 anyway


Oh goody. I love it when my Elite combat unit needs to hang back until turn 4 to be the slightest bit worth a damn. And, even then, they're still garbage. Seriously, in the age of D-weapons, Scatter-bikes, Dreadknights, Riptides and Flyrants, who in their right mind is afraid of some S4 attacks with no AP or useful special rules?

 Salvation wrote:
and turn 6 gives them +2 attacks on the charge, making them ideally S4 T3 5A for 13pts each


You know that a game might not even last till turn 6, right? I imagine a lot of Bloodbrides certainly won't...

 Salvation wrote:
just keep them in a darting raider in between combat


This seems optimistic, to say the least. Who's this opponent you're playing who's units are getting mowed down by S3 attacks (presumably with negligible overwatch, which rules out Tau and IG), and who also can't kill a raider in his own front lines?

 Salvation wrote:
I wouldn't do this for regular wyches though as they usually don't last through their first CC battle :/


Indeed. Good job Blodbrides have all that extra survivability like... um... the ability to hide on shelves for entire editions?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Worse units in my codices are:

SM: Terminators/Chaplain/Classic LR
GK: Rhinos/Razorbacks
Tyranids: Pyrovore/Prime/Old One Eye/Red Terror/Lack of Inv on my Flyrant/Genestealers/Broodlord
IG: Rough Riders/LR Punisher
Inquisition: Daemonhosts
Skitarii: Ruststalkers
CSM: Thousand Sons (Which breaks my heart make no mistake)
and finally Imperial Knights. The entire codex is rubbish.
Why? Because I can never bring something cool looking to a game without being thought of as "that guy".
Awesome, terrific models, terrible reputation. I will never ever get to field my Knight because of this ¬¬

[Edit] Oh, I forgot to add. The entire Dark Angels Codex. Yeah you heard me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/22 10:32:09


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Izural wrote:
Worse units in my codices are:

SM: Terminators/Chaplain/Classic LR
GK: Rhinos/Razorbacks
Tyranids: Pyrovore/Prime/Old One Eye/Red Terror/Lack of Inv on my Flyrant/Genestealers/Broodlord
IG: Rough Riders/LR Punisher
Inquisition: Daemonhosts
Skitarii: Ruststalkers
CSM: Thousand Sons (Which breaks my heart make no mistake)
and finally Imperial Knights. The entire codex is rubbish.
Why? Because I can never bring something cool looking to a game without being thought of as "that guy".
Awesome, terrific models, terrible reputation. I will never ever get to field my Knight because of this ¬¬

[Edit] Oh, I forgot to add. The entire Dark Angels Codex. Yeah you heard me.

Why pick on the standard LR? All LR are bad. Between the 3 choices though - youre calling the LR with the best Firepower the worst LR...that just doesn't make sense.
Also - the punisher is probably the best LR as well - not the worst. Executioner is also a beast but can destroy itself.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Isn't the Punisher only good with Pask?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 vipoid wrote:
Isn't the Punisher only good with Pask?

Depends on what you define as good. That tank can put out 29 str 5 shots. Compared to the other varients this one seems to be the best for the point IMO. Certainly not the worst.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I guess I just don't find lots of S5 very useful. They can't even glance a lot of vehicles, and when you factor in BS3, toughness and saves, most of those shots just glance off MCs.

Even against infantry, it jut doesn't seem very impressive.

e.g. against marines, 29 shots is ~15 hits, 10 wounds and 3 dead marines.

I just don't see the appeal.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 vipoid wrote:
I guess I just don't find lots of S5 very useful. They can't even glance a lot of vehicles, and when you factor in BS3, toughness and saves, most of those shots just glance off MCs.

Even against infantry, it jut doesn't seem very impressive.

e.g. against marines, 29 shots is ~15 hits, 10 wounds and 3 dead marines.

I just don't see the appeal.

It's obviously a lot better with pask and you probably figure you could get just as many wounds with a wyvern on most squads and with ignore cover to boot for half the cost - but it more reliably puts up wounds. Things like TWC - flying hive tyrants - necron wraiths - where a torrent shots is the only thing that stands a remote chance of dealing some wounds.

You make a good point though- why not just put pask in it? Plus i find it very good at killing things like rhinos and raiders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/22 14:50:09


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Based on current codices:

Blood Angels - Captain Tycho (What is the point of him?)
Dark Angels - Nephilim jetfighter (with Avenger MEGA bolter and S6 missiles - ooh how scary!)
Grey Knights - Rhino

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/22 15:15:17


"For The Emperor and Sanguinius!"

My Armies:
Blood Angels, Ultramarines,
Astra Militarum,
Mechanicus 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




 Slaphead wrote:
Based on current codices:

Blood Angels - Captain Tycho (What is the point of him?)
Dark Angels - Nephilim jetfighter (with Avenger MEGA bolter and S6 missiles - ooh how scary!)
Grey Knights - Rhino


Why the Rhino? It's a super cheap transport. I wish our more fragile DE transports were that cheap.
   
Made in us
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos






[quote=Amayasu 647432 7809690 null

Not actually a fan of the standard Tact Squad - feels like Fodder.



That's because people are spoiled and expect every unit to be a game breaker with tons of bells and whistles.

It also speaks to the state of the game: GW feeling the need to slowly but surely increase the overall power level of individual units(need to sell those pricey kits ya know).


++ Death In The Dark++ A Zone Mortalis Hobby Project Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/663090.page#8712701
 
   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





sweetbacon wrote:
 Slaphead wrote:
Based on current codices:

Blood Angels - Captain Tycho (What is the point of him?)
Dark Angels - Nephilim jetfighter (with Avenger MEGA bolter and S6 missiles - ooh how scary!)
Grey Knights - Rhino


Why the Rhino? It's a super cheap transport. I wish our more fragile DE transports were that cheap.



I guess it was just in terms of how it fitted within the codex compared to other units and my past experiences of my own Rhino's and Razorbacks always getting blown up in any game that I take them. Plus with the Grey Knights the Rhino doesn't seem to go with their play style for me, it's probably different for other players. I do feel your pain over open topped armour 10 transports, but on the plus side your evil elves can jink save, shoot from them as well as assault from them which does help I'd imagine. The DE transports are really nice looking too! :-)

"For The Emperor and Sanguinius!"

My Armies:
Blood Angels, Ultramarines,
Astra Militarum,
Mechanicus 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




 CT GAMER wrote:
[quote=Amayasu 647432 7809690 null

Not actually a fan of the standard Tact Squad - feels like Fodder.



That's because people are spoiled and expect every unit to be a game breaker with tons of bells and whistles.

It also speaks to the state of the game: GW feeling the need to slowly but surely increase the overall power level of individual units(need to sell those pricey kits ya know).



If you look at the absurd power jump of the Necron, Eldar, and now Cult Mechanicus (based on the leaks I've seen) codexes, I can understand why people have expectation that every new unit/book be game breakingly good. Those three books are WAY better than every other 7th edition codex thus far. If GW can do that for them, why not every army?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




sweetbacon wrote:
 CT GAMER wrote:
[quote=Amayasu 647432 7809690 null

Not actually a fan of the standard Tact Squad - feels like Fodder.



That's because people are spoiled and expect every unit to be a game breaker with tons of bells and whistles.

It also speaks to the state of the game: GW feeling the need to slowly but surely increase the overall power level of individual units(need to sell those pricey kits ya know).



If you look at the absurd power jump of the Necron, Eldar, and now Cult Mechanicus (based on the leaks I've seen) codexes, I can understand why people have expectation that every new unit/book be game breakingly good. Those three books are WAY better than every other 7th edition codex thus far. If GW can do that for them, why not every army?

Actually it's because Tactical Marines do nothing but bring OS Drop Pods, and even then that's not necessary.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Master Sergeant





What if we had a thread that listed for the whole dex/supplements where people thought the units stood:

bad; average; good; or OP (/bordering on OP)? It would be interesting to see how the different factions compared and how many units with a particular army fell in each category/
   
Made in be
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





Belgium

 Korinov wrote:
This is actually a tough one for the Chaos Space Marines, because in the current state of affairs, it's actually difficult to choose which of their units is the worst. Their current book is filled with interesting concepts and ideas but poorly implemented rules-wise. Take the Warp Talons, for instance. I don't know if assaulting straight from deep strike would be too cheesy, but considering how much they cost, the fact that they can't assault from deep strike makes them an actual points sink.

To be completely honest, I don't know if the fault really lies with the codex itself, or rather with the power creep other armies have profited from. Heldrakes and Dinobots aside (currently, none of them specially good), CSM look like an army frozen in time since 4th edition, an army of - supposedly - close combat specialists who never get to assault because after 10000 years in the Eye of Terror their only assault vehicle is the Land Raider. It must be terribly difficult for those warpsmiths to tweak the existing rhino design into a proper assault vehicle, I mean they can build Dinobots from scratch but an useful assault-oriented APC? Nooooooo.

If only they had been frozen at their 3.5 codex state. At least they would be a more interesting army to play.


If i could exalt this multiple times, i would.

   
 
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