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 Talys wrote:
@rhavien -

With BA, you don't really have that many specific units that you'd want to play, that you lose.

- Tac marines & Assault Terminator kits fit perfectly
- Death Company kit lets you build the most awesome assault marines

- Priest is a good one that you lose -- Sad panda.
- Sanguinary Guard is cool, but really pricey and is usually overkill. However, they have some awesome (usable) bits, like the banner, some torsos, weapons, etc.
- The Baal Predator? In 7e book, no loss there, LOL.
- Furiosos/Libby/DC Dreads? IGreat for fluff games, fun to paint, but that's it.
- Heroes: You'll miss Dante, but the rest of the heroes, there's no reason to play except for fluff reasons.

All the other kits are just regular SM kits anyways.

Furiosos (and cassor) were and are still playable, at least when they jump off of a storm raven, but they just don't stack up any more compared to say, a 100pt salamander dread with a twin linked multimelta and 4 frigging attacks, or an iron hands ironclad with 5 (!) attacks and it will not die. Lib dreads are still playable too, if you can spare the slot, but the idea that even when my lib dread casts quickening on himself he'll still have less attacks than a normal marine ironclad is just so UGH.
Also Meph is still very good. Mephstar might be gone, but him leading a squad of melee scouts or sternguard and hopping out of a storm raven is absolutely brutal.

The problem with the conversion to using normal marine rules for my army is having to re-arm everything. I've got tons of assault marines with meltaguns, tons of sergeants with inferno pistols and hand flamers, and I don't own a single grav cannon. I can't snap my fingers and have the baal predator i own turn into a tri-las predator. That would at the very least involve buying $20 worth of bits off of ebay and a lot of cutting. I also don't own any HQs that can act has stand-ins for the good HQs in the normal marine dex (smashy, tigerius, helbrecht, etc).


The effort of re-arming my force would be so severe, that at that point I might as well go whole hog and just play a different chapter.

I've been playing Blood Angels for almost 20 years. If I was just starting up my army and had a bunch of un-built boxes of guys, I'd have jumped ship already.

On a semi-related note, anyone think Red Scorpions would actually be pretty sweet under the new dex? Like, if you're playing with 6 tactical squads, all of them getting FNP for free is a pretty sick chapter trait.

Join us..... in CHAOS my red brothers! Your forefathers have abandoned you!

 Talys wrote:
@rhavien -

With BA, you don't really have that many specific units that you'd want to play, that you lose.

- Tac marines & Assault Terminator kits fit perfectly
- Death Company kit lets you build the most awesome assault marines

- Priest is a good one that you lose -- Sad panda.
- Sanguinary Guard is cool, but really pricey and is usually overkill. However, they have some awesome (usable) bits, like the banner, some torsos, weapons, etc.
- The Baal Predator? In 7e book, no loss there, LOL.
- Furiosos/Libby/DC Dreads? IGreat for fluff games, fun to paint, but that's it.
- Heroes: You'll miss Dante, but the rest of the heroes, there's no reason to play except for fluff reasons.

All the other kits are just regular SM kits anyways.

And thats exactly the thing. I play BA because of their fluff. They are the sons of Sanguinius and not some other Marines. From a level of power perspective all your points are valid, but I want to roll out baal preds,see my goldenn and feathered angels cut through heretics and let loose my black maniacs. But sadly it's to much to ask from GW to get viable rules for everyone.

I feel you bro lol. Been ork b4, now DA. Hopefully our new dex arrive soon lol

 monders wrote:

Martel732 wrote:I have to buy some actual space marine models or go on hiatus. I think hiatus is more likely because the Eldar are still out there.

My Eldar would have got tabled by Skitarii had I not Called It on Sunday*, so everyone has monster under their bed.

*Would it have played differently if my mate hadn't misinterpreted Relentless for Shoot and Run/Run and Shoot? Possibly...

Doesn't count; your opponent cheated. Also, most Skitarii lists fall apart against people that know how to defend drop pods. They are just the SW of 7th ed. Eldar are much better because they aren't all-in on one tactic.

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
What I really don't understand is how easy it is to write a FAQ about the numerous mistakes they make and yet they wont.

I think it's that they ultimately don't care. They simply are not interested in supporting their rules, to GW corporate, they're simply a side product that allow people to do something with the plastic army men that GW sells them. To GW, the customer is buying models simply because they enjoy building and painting them, gaming is a secondary or tertiary activity between basement buddies that don't care about how it actually functions, just how it looks. That's how they describe their market to shareholders.

As such, they don't put much effort into it.

I really have to wonder about their business model because they're not even competent soulless money grubbers like EA. A blanket refusal to advertise because of their belief that a small dedicated fanbase is better than pushing out to the masses, and yet continually making decisions to alienate said fanbase seems like the weird kind of nether-logic you see get made fun of in a Monty Python sketch.

This is a company that had their CEO, Chairman of the Board, and one of their top 5 or 6 shareholders be the same person, and then curiously opt to *borrow* money to pay dividends, resulting the aforementioned individual happening to double their yearly income.

They refuse to engage with their customer base in just about any way, and it's no surprise that their revenue is declining (in inflation adjusted terms) just about every single year.

Ah so that explains it.

Both Warhammer 40k and Fantasy Battle are nothing more than a giant embezzlement scheme.

Can you show us where we can view the GW financials. I think they are doing better than you think.

 Icelord wrote:

Can you show us where we can view the GW financials. I think they are doing better than you think.

Investor Relations

The end year report is due a month or two, which will really shed some light on how well the company is doing with this rapid release schedule.

There's also a thread in Dakka Discussions for this sort of stuff.

This is why they should all be in one book.

GW need to bring out an errata as there is no way a bog standard dreadnought should have more base attacks than a Furioso dread or a Death Company dread.

Furioso has 2 base attacks and DC dread has 3 (before any bonus). That needs to be fixed if standard dreads end up with 4 attacks base. Scouts would also need to be in an errata as there is no logical reason why SM scouts would have better WS and BS than BA ones.

If there is not an errata for the BA book, then there is something seriously, seriously wrong here.

Yeah, seriously wrong. I don't understand how GW could put out half a dozen books to represent all the divergent chapters of Space Marines and then have the nerve to give them all different rules. As if they were all different or something, pfft...

 Icelord wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
What I really don't understand is how easy it is to write a FAQ about the numerous mistakes they make and yet they wont.

I think it's that they ultimately don't care. They simply are not interested in supporting their rules, to GW corporate, they're simply a side product that allow people to do something with the plastic army men that GW sells them. To GW, the customer is buying models simply because they enjoy building and painting them, gaming is a secondary or tertiary activity between basement buddies that don't care about how it actually functions, just how it looks. That's how they describe their market to shareholders.

As such, they don't put much effort into it.

I really have to wonder about their business model because they're not even competent soulless money grubbers like EA. A blanket refusal to advertise because of their belief that a small dedicated fanbase is better than pushing out to the masses, and yet continually making decisions to alienate said fanbase seems like the weird kind of nether-logic you see get made fun of in a Monty Python sketch.

This is a company that had their CEO, Chairman of the Board, and one of their top 5 or 6 shareholders be the same person, and then curiously opt to *borrow* money to pay dividends, resulting the aforementioned individual happening to double their yearly income.

They refuse to engage with their customer base in just about any way, and it's no surprise that their revenue is declining (in inflation adjusted terms) just about every single year.

Ah so that explains it.

Both Warhammer 40k and Fantasy Battle are nothing more than a giant embezzlement scheme.

Can you show us where we can view the GW financials. I think they are doing better than you think.

Blacksails beat me to it.

GW's a publicly traded company and as such must publish certain information. They've been on a downward trending slope for a decade in terms of inflation adjusted revenue. Couple that with vastly increased prices over the same time period, and less revenue+higher prices=less product sold. We'll see how the new schedule may change that in a bit. The problem previously was that they were only getting out 1-3 codex books a year. Now they've changed that, but they've also changed design philosophies in the same period and tried throwing out everything and the kitchen sink just to have another release. Good idea, poor execution methinks. We'll see how it works out, but my guess is that we aren't going to see a stellar shift in anything. Maybe a slight uptick, maybe a slight downturn, but nothing major.

Relapse wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I spent an inordinate amount of time waiting for the most recent Ork Codex release, I got all excited about the Orkanauts and Mek Gunz and all the jazz....only to discover my entire dex besides 1-2 things was nerfs. :(

My first army btw was BA so I feel for you

The Ork Stompa, though, is the best big thing in the game isn't 't it? Loaded with Mek Boyz, they seem nearly impossible to bring down.

that made me lol

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I spent an inordinate amount of time waiting for the most recent Ork Codex release, I got all excited about the Orkanauts and Mek Gunz and all the jazz....only to discover my entire dex besides 1-2 things was nerfs. :(

My first army btw was BA so I feel for you

The Ork Stompa, though, is the best big thing in the game isn't 't it? Loaded with Mek Boyz, they seem nearly impossible to bring down.

that made me lol

Confirmed: Stompa better than Wraithknight!

 Walnuts wrote:

Furiosos (and cassor) were and are still playable, at least when they jump off of a storm raven, but they just don't stack up any more compared to say, a 100pt salamander dread with a twin linked multimelta and 4 frigging attacks, or an iron hands ironclad with 5 (!) attacks and it will not die. Lib dreads are still playable too, if you can spare the slot, but the idea that even when my lib dread casts quickening on himself he'll still have less attacks than a normal marine ironclad is just so UGH.

Also Meph is still very good. Mephstar might be gone, but him leading a squad of melee scouts or sternguard and hopping out of a storm raven is absolutely brutal.

While all this is true, you can also say that predators, land speeders, vindicators and attack bikes are playable too. The real issue is that none of these units are *relatively* good, and the main complaint of the thread is that BA units and formations are not *relatively* good compared to the vanilla counterparts.

Let's be honest: if you're playing a Furioso or an Ironclad, Baal Predator or vanilla Pred, then you're doing so because you love the model or want to create a themed list or want to play a planned scenario -- not because there is some sweet strategy that will win you games. Because in no game situation would those points ever be better spent there than on Centurions or Grav bikes or Tri-melta drop pods or jump pack death company. And I'm not trying to dissuade people from using these units. If you look at my gallery, I have 30 really nicely painted death company, Crassor, Fragiosos, et cetera. I even play them relatively often, but not because I want to pack a list to win.

Anyways, my point is this: if you want to take vanilla SM, the two legitimate reasons are, you want a more powerful list or you want to play the units that are in C:SM but not in C:BA. Neither of those are served by any of the BA-specific models that can't be repurposed to a non-BA specific list.

I don't play Mephiston because I hate the model, but frankly, there is nothing about him that is competitive with Draigo. So if you want a winning list, take Draigo. But the solution is NOT "balance" in the sense that every named psyker should be as good as Draigo or Tigurius.

 Walnuts wrote:
The problem with the conversion to using normal marine rules for my army is having to re-arm everything. I've got tons of assault marines with meltaguns, tons of sergeants with inferno pistols and hand flamers, and I don't own a single grav cannon. I can't snap my fingers and have the baal predator i own turn into a tri-las predator. That would at the very least involve buying $20 worth of bits off of ebay and a lot of cutting. I also don't own any HQs that can act has stand-ins for the good HQs in the normal marine dex (smashy, tigerius, helbrecht, etc).

The effort of re-arming my force would be so severe, that at that point I might as well go whole hog and just play a different chapter.

I've been playing Blood Angels for almost 20 years. If I was just starting up my army and had a bunch of un-built boxes of guys, I'd have jumped ship already.

I think it's easier than you think.

Assault marines: Your ideal assault squad for BA is 2 melta, 1 combimelta, 2 bolt pistol. All you need to do to make that codex compliant is to make 1 more bolt pistol guy not use 1 meltagun. If you have an infernus pistol, you should save 5 points and turn it into a combi-melta for BA

Tactical squads: Play 5-man, and you don't need to do anything different. Sergeant with combi-melta, tactical with melta, 3 bolters.

Grav Cannon tactical/devastator: Well, until a couple of days ago... NOBODY had these. So you're in the same boat as everyone else But realistically, nobody is going to take a 10-man tactical to put on 1 35 point grav cannon. Since all marines are 14 points, you might as well just take a 5 man tactical, and a 5 man devastator and take as many grav cannons as you want.

For Tigurius, just swap in one of your BA librarians. I mean, at the end of the day, he's just a librarian in terminator armor, right? If you painted it to codex, your BA librarian is even blue, with just a red shoulder pad. Whoop-dee

Of course, you can't use Baal Predators for anything else, unless you did some magnetization and such, which IMO is not worth the effort on a $60 model where you'd have to buy extra bits. Keep in mind, even within Codex: Blood Angels, a tri-las predator is generally a better performer than a Baal predator

No idear what you're talking about with making the assault squads vanilla compliant, Talys, they can only take plasma pistols, flamers, and eviscerators. No meltas, so I'd have to do some rebuilding. Also I'm not at all a fan of the tri-melta deep strike. Like, what's it going to do? Put less than one wound on a wraightknight? Maybe kill one tank but probably not? Besides, admech boys are the king of the deep strike these days.

Also tigerius has a staff. I'm not a fan of that blood staff relic thingie, so I've never built a lib with a staff, all my libs have axe + shield if they're terms, and sword or axe + pistol and jump pack if they're in power armor.

As for the furiosos and cassor being playable, I genuinely meant that as they are good playable, not as in you are literally able to play with them, which would mean literally everything is playable.

People on this board seem to feel like a fully loaded storm raven is too juicy of a target and will get insta-killed by interceptors upon arrival, but for whatever reason, no one in my area packs ground based AA, and one or two fliers AT MOST, so I can pretty much 100% of the time have it deploy its cargo and assault, and when that cargo is a furioso/cassor, mephiston and maybe and inquisitor or corbulo, and 10 melee scouts or 10 sternguard, they can really mess stuff up.

Also, as for attack bikes, I genuinely think they're good again in the new marine dex. In the last blood angel dex when they were five points cheaper and I had FNP bubbles, I'd run multi melta attack bikes almost as an auto-include. They were so durable and versatile for their point cost, considering they could jink and FNP against lascannons and lances and meltas and such.

You know who can do that now? Black templars. They're 5 pts cheaper in the new dex too. If I ran BT I'd totally do helbrecht in a land raider surrounded by bikes and assault marines.

Also attack bikes are the way to go if you're trying to do a full company for the minimum amount of points. So they totally have their uses. For regular marines at least. For blood angels they're useless atm.

PS, feel ya on mephiston's model sucking, so I've converted a few over the years, they're in my gallery. And saying he's not as good as draigo isn't a valid comparison. Meph loses to anyone with a 2+ save, but wins against almost anyone else. He can also give his entire squad 4+fnp, an invulnerable save, twin link their guns, extra attacks and initiative to a nearby dreadnought, and stuff almost any pyschic power anywhere near him. I'd like to see draigo try any of that.

 jokerkd wrote:
If an IOM player wants to summon daemons i would happily let them try. Needing to roll three 4+ without doubles is damn near impossible. The only one worth sacrificing your psyker for is possession. Even thats gonna take some luck

With Librarius Conclave they only need three 2+. And since they share powers you can fish for Possession and possess all the Librarians except the guy who actually knows it. So SM are now officially better at summoning daemons than CSM. Narrative forged.

 Walnuts wrote:
No idear what you're talking about with making the assault squads vanilla compliant, Talys, they can only take plasma pistols, flamers, and eviscerators. No meltas, so I'd have to do some rebuilding. Also I'm not at all a fan of the tri-melta deep strike. Like, what's it going to do? Put less than one wound on a wraightknight? Maybe kill one tank but probably not? Besides, admech boys are the king of the deep strike these days.

You're right about the assault squads. My Blood Angels Assault Squads are melta (with pod), and I haven't had a vanilla assault squad in forever. Frankly, I don't think vanilla assault marines are worth taking, and haven't been for so long that I got the load-out options mixed up. My bad, sorry

If you want the Gladius formation, you could take whatever bolt pistol marines you have, and just add either more bolt pistol guys or 2 flamers, the only upgrade that's worthwhile (because it's cheap), IMO.

 Walnuts wrote:
Also tigerius has a staff. I'm not a fan of that blood staff relic thingie, so I've never built a lib with a staff, all my libs have axe + shield if they're terms, and sword or axe + pistol and jump pack if they're in power armor.

The easiest way to do this is the Calistarius model from Space Hulk, because the force axe is easily changeable to a staff (you can even keep the bottom half of the force axe).

 Walnuts wrote:
As for the furiosos and cassor being playable, I genuinely meant that as they are good playable, not as in you are literally able to play with them, which would mean literally everything is playable.

People on this board seem to feel like a fully loaded storm raven is too juicy of a target and will get insta-killed by interceptors upon arrival, but for whatever reason, no one in my area packs ground based AA, and one or two fliers AT MOST, so I can pretty much 100% of the time have it deploy its cargo and assault, and when that cargo is a furioso/cassor, mephiston and maybe and inquisitor or corbulo, and 10 melee scouts or 10 sternguard, they can really mess stuff up.

I think that both units are "playable", but not "competitive". Like, if you care about making the best list possible, neither furiosos nor stormravens are gonna top that list. They are great in their own ways. My biggest problem with the stormraven is the god-awful cost (200 points), and it being a pretty lousy transport option. I love the models of both.

Mephiston is the same thing -- he's not terrible, and arguably the only other named BA that's decent in the codex, but I'd rather spend the points elsewhere. Again, I'm talking in the context of making ultracompetitive lists. The two things that everyone wants to do are to give your deathstar of choice invisibility and teleportation when it comes to those types of lists.

Space Marines have the biggest and loudest player pool. Whenever a new army gets a new toy or revision that makes them good they do nothing but bitch and moan forgetting the fact that Marines and there supplements(Blood Angels and other battle brothers) break every single rule 40k already has. They assault out of transports, can deepstrike turn 1. Can successfully null deploy. I'd play marines just because they have more options for winning lists than any other army out there, but they just suck fluff wise. They're the typical Mary Sue's.
they've got no soul. So I pretend I don't play them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Walnuts wrote:
No idear what you're talking about with making the assault squads vanilla compliant, Talys, they can only take plasma pistols, flamers, and eviscerators. No meltas, so I'd have to do some rebuilding. Also I'm not at all a fan of the tri-melta deep strike. Like, what's it going to do? Put less than one wound on a wraightknight? Maybe kill one tank but probably not? Besides, admech boys are the king of the deep strike these days.

Also tigerius has a staff. I'm not a fan of that blood staff relic thingie, so I've never built a lib with a staff, all my libs have axe + shield if they're terms, and sword or axe + pistol and jump pack if they're in power armor.

As for the furiosos and cassor being playable, I genuinely meant that as they are good playable, not as in you are literally able to play with them, which would mean literally everything is playable.

People on this board seem to feel like a fully loaded storm raven is too juicy of a target and will get insta-killed by interceptors upon arrival, but for whatever reason, no one in my area packs ground based AA, and one or two fliers AT MOST, so I can pretty much 100% of the time have it deploy its cargo and assault, and when that cargo is a furioso/cassor, mephiston and maybe and inquisitor or corbulo, and 10 melee scouts or 10 sternguard, they can really mess stuff up.

Also, as for attack bikes, I genuinely think they're good again in the new marine dex. In the last blood angel dex when they were five points cheaper and I had FNP bubbles, I'd run multi melta attack bikes almost as an auto-include. They were so durable and versatile for their point cost, considering they could jink and FNP against lascannons and lances and meltas and such.

You know who can do that now? Black templars. They're 5 pts cheaper in the new dex too. If I ran BT I'd totally do helbrecht in a land raider surrounded by bikes and assault marines.

Also attack bikes are the way to go if you're trying to do a full company for the minimum amount of points. So they totally have their uses. For regular marines at least. For blood angels they're useless atm.

PS, feel ya on mephiston's model sucking, so I've converted a few over the years, they're in my gallery. And saying he's not as good as draigo isn't a valid comparison. Meph loses to anyone with a 2+ save, but wins against almost anyone else. He can also give his entire squad 4+fnp, an invulnerable save, twin link their guns, extra attacks and initiative to a nearby dreadnought, and stuff almost any pyschic power anywhere near him. I'd like to see draigo try any of that.

You realize if you can do this over and over your opponents aren't only bad at warhammer they are also bad at thinking. The necron are the only army in my experience that can make fliers jink when it is convenient but otherwise ignore them. Yes Mephistons model sucks

jakejackjake wrote:
Space Marines have the biggest and loudest player pool. Whenever a new army gets a new toy or revision that makes them good they do nothing but bitch and moan forgetting the fact that Marines and there supplements(Blood Angels and other battle brothers) break every single rule 40k already has. They assault out of transports, can deepstrike turn 1. Can successfully null deploy. I'd play marines just because they have more options for winning lists than any other army out there, but they just suck fluff wise. They're the typical Mary Sue's.
they've got no soul. So I pretend I don't play them

Space marines having a loud player pool is kind of a 'no duh' statement. When your faction has been around since the dawn of the game, you get veteran players like myself who tend to get attached to their army that they've been working on since they were kids. If I started an admech army a month ago and the rules were a little jacked I'd probably care less.

It's like whenever you see a thread talking about re-balancing Imperial Guard / Astra Militarum you ALWAYS see people talking about how they want rough riders to be good. I'm sure these aren't people who think an arbitrary fast cav unit would make the army as a whole more competitive on paper, but I am sure these are people who have been playing guard since the 90s or even 80s who have rough rider models that have been gathering dust for decades that they just want to crack out again.

I think my knights are rubbish compared to eldar, but I'm not really whining about that one because that's a faction I picked up a year ago. W/e, I'll deal with it.

Besides, you're missing the point of the thread, hoss, I didn't make a butthurt rant thread when eldar came out, because I have no desire to have my faction to be the eldar of now. That would suck even worse. Balance would be nice, but this is GW, so I know I'm asking for a bit much with that one. I'd settle for consistency, at least, though. There was a point during 4th edition where there were three rule sets for storm shields depending on which book you were using. What's happening now is like that but worse and 4th ed is when I quit the game.

And as for the storm raven working really well in my local meta, it's not like my opponents are bad, and I fight necrons, demons, and eldar too, it's just how these people are choosing to play. It's impossible to make a sub-2k TAC list these days. Back in 3rd, fine, make a list that can handle hoards, MEQs, vehicles, and monstrous creatures, and you're fine. Now you need a list that can handle hoards, MEQs, vehicles, monstrous creatures, bikes (they didn't matter in 3rd) AND super heavies AND flyers? If someone goes heavy on one of those things, they're going to overwhelm you and there's sort of no way around it. People in my area focus on the ground game, probably because they think if they devote too many points to AA they'll just get overwhelmed by knights or demon summoning or w/e. This is fine by me because it allows me to exploit the local meta, show up with a flyer heavy list, and compensate for the fact that I'm running a tier iii codex at this point.

@Walnuts - Exploiting the local meta is a very valid strategy

@jakejackjake - For me, the best thing about marines is the amazing number of interchangeable parts between... what, it must be, 15 full kits (each with a kazillion bits). I mean, to me, that's just out of this world awesome.

So marines get a online only formation of 2 relentless devastator units that pin everything they hit on 3d6 Ld rolll that come in drop pods and can combat squad. Followed by 2 units of assault sm, that re-roll to hit and to wound vs pined units and can charge the turn they land. All four units come down at the same time, can pick if they want to drop turn one or two and the formation pods don't count to check how many pods drop arrive turn 1 through drop pod assault.

Marines just became another army that can wiped out IG in a single turn.

Makukba, what formation is this?

 Walnuts wrote:
Makukba, what formation is this?

Skyhammer Annihilation Force.

It's pretty ridiculous.

Just found the rules. A first turn assault that's THAT easy? Oh my guh


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perfect example of a rule set I don't want. Believe that's legit game-breaking

Good news, I was told that the ba dex will be getting an faq next month on the 12th of never to bring it in line...

Serially though, that's all it would take, and pennies to pounds it doesn't happen, as a long suffering dark angels player I feel your pain op, just for once we may actually get a decent dex, but my blood angels mates will not be happy and I totally understand.

At our local club we will be doing an in house faq ourselves to bring it in line, so the dc dread for example will have 4 attacks base, Contemptors too, and other things to match up.

Makumba wrote:
So marines get a online only formation of 2 relentless devastator units that pin everything they hit on 3d6 Ld rolll that come in drop pods and can combat squad. Followed by 2 units of assault sm, that re-roll to hit and to wound vs pined units and can charge the turn they land. All four units come down at the same time, can pick if they want to drop turn one or two and the formation pods don't count to check how many pods drop arrive turn 1 through drop pod assault.

Marines just became another army that can wiped out IG in a single turn.

Yeah, I saw that. It's another stupid pay-to-win formation from Gouge Workshop. I think I'm just going to stick to modified 2014 7th ed rules

I would recommend emailing Customer Service at this time. One would think that if they receive enough emails from upset customers that they would at least attempt to do something about the discrepancies between the C:BA and C:SM. Not counting on it.

Martel732 wrote:
The 90s called and want their codex system back. Codices should be online and updated in real time.

Great then I'll need a new tablet to play.

Bad idea. Leave the books alone, just write them properly and keep up on the errata.

Also.

I am not a vet, but I loved playing my 6th ed vanilla marines. This new codex makes me feel like the page flipping lady.

Yeah I said it. 7th ed Space Marines make me feel like an upset lady.

Also.

Do you really want GW to redo your codex? They might inadvertently take away your tanks or something...

darkcloak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The 90s called and want their codex system back. Codices should be online and updated in real time.

Great then I'll need a new tablet to play.

Bad idea. Leave the books alone, just write them properly and keep up on the errata.

Pretty much. I would be okay if they updated the digital copies and released errata for the hard copies, though. But, we are probably going to receive neither.

darkcloak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The 90s called and want their codex system back. Codices should be online and updated in real time.

Great then I'll need a new tablet to play.

Bad idea. Leave the books alone, just write them properly and keep up on the errata.

Also.

I am not a vet, but I loved playing my 6th ed vanilla marines. This new codex makes me feel like the page flipping lady.

Yeah I said it. 7th ed Space Marines make me feel like an upset lady.

Also.

Do you really want GW to redo your codex? They might inadvertently take away your tanks or something...

I think the rules should be online. Not the whole damned codex, just the rules. Print them out if you don't have a tablet.