Just Bought the Skyhammer Annihilation Force.

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**techsoldaten**

Vaktathi wrote:

It's not an exaggeration at all to say that this formations is absolutely capable of deciding a game on turn 1.

Well then, the formation is aptly named.

Agreeing with a previous poster, if GW provided a similar formation for CSMs the community would be outraged.

**Poly Ranger**

The community is outraged. There are three threads directly discussing how OP it is in just one day.

**darkcloak**

But that's the beauty of the Devs now!

You don't need to waste those grav shots on sub-optimal targets, just aim boltguns at them. Literally, the rule say any unit "targeted".

You were throwing the ASM at infantry anyways right? I say Combat Squad the Devs and let the bolter boys do some work.

Funny thing about this thing too... The formation calls for 2 Dev Squads, and 2 ASM Squads right? You get 20 ASM, but only 10 of the new Devs and the rest are just Tacs!

GW can't even let you have extra Dev weapons. Also, half your Devs will be missing the big boots! And be on different size bases! Or did they at least give you enough of the same size bases?

**Crimson Devil**

Apparently we're not raging hard enough to satisfy the offended Eldar players.

This formation is gross. Pure and simple. I don't see how anything approaching a good game can be played with this formation. I played a pod list back in 4th edition. When pods were random. If the pods showed up on turn two in mass, the game was over and I can tell you none of my opponents had fun in those games. Between skyhammer and drop pod assault these won't even be called games. Just you doing stuff to your opponent. So look for an opponent with strong masochistic tendencies or someone who enjoys setting up the game, but not playing.

**Sarigar**

Sidstyler wrote:
Sarigar wrote:
This forrhas great potential and is scarily close to fluff.

You could say the same thing about Necrons and Eldar, though.

Possibly, but I am not one that complains about things being overpowered. However, Scatterlasers on Jetbikes still don't feel fluffy to me.

What this formation affords me as a more fluff based player is avoiding some of the extreme combo-hammer and mixed match models cobbled into an army in order to play a competitive game.

**Naw**

Just for the lolz I need to try this with Flesh Tearers as follows:

Skyhammer with full bodies and grav cannons, assault squads with flamers. From BA/Flesh Tearers 3 Fragnaughts in pods, scout squad with ccw's, sang priest and assault squad with flamers, one extra pod.

Turn 1 drop formation's 4 pods and 3 fragnoughts. Fragnoughts should be able to eat interceptor. By combat squading that's quite a many threats turn 1 right in the face of the enemy.

**Dakkamite**

darkcloak wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
take overpowered nonsense formation then laugh at your opponents attempts to deal with it

I would hate to play you IRL

Me?

Lord no you'd love it!

I'm just pointing out the absolute absurdity of the beast, I'd never expect anyone to play that stuff seriously, unless the Chaos Gods were real and challenged you to a game! Then maybe you should run White Scars, just to be sure! (I remembered to emote!)

It's not so much about laughing at your opponent, in that you ought to both be laughing at the insanity playing out on the table. Call it cheese casserole and accept that it's hilarious.

I'm not advocating that this is what 40k should be, but hey? Maybe this is the way to balance? If everyone gets to pull stunts like the SAF then aren't we all enjoying the "added personality"?

Maaaybeee it's an unintentional return to the tongue in cheek satire of the 80s? Yeah, everything is grim and dark, so grim and dark its funny. You can't even play the game competitively because the tables would simply implode under the weight of all the grim dark cheese!

If they'd started this nonsense with 7th instead of finally releasing an Ork dex after most of a decade, having it be gak, and then pumping out overpowered dex after overpowered dex, then sure I'd be laughing right along with you.

**quickfuze**

Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates just bought the Skyhammer Annihilation Force to get my Marines started. Thinking of going with either the Imperial Fists, Fire Hawks, BT, or the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, as I will most likely run other Drop Pod units with this formation. These are some of the ideas that I had to go with the formation:

* Pedro Kantor w/ Honor Guard in a Drop Pod, 2x Tac Squads in Drop Pods. Just a start but would potentially allow me to have a very nasty Alpha Strike army, as I could go Hvy Bolters for the Devestators to capitalize the IF Chapter Tactic and throw in some Sternguard units for the anti-tank.

* BT: Squads in LRC 's would be a great support to this formation, you throw in the EC and some Crusader Squads to create a nasty list.

* Fire Hawks: Utilize the Assault Marines to there full potential, and can be supported by anything as well as the Devestators. A very flexible army Chapter Tactic.

Not sure how I would capitalize on the Raven Guard but advice is most welcome in that regard.

I'd say pick whatever tactics match the color scheme you most enjoy painting....cause that's all you are going to be doing with it after you realize quickly that no one is going to play against you with it.

**Talys**

darkcloak wrote:
Just wait a few weeks apparently, lol!

And yeah dude, obviously I agree with you, but for the sake of having fun I'd gladly step around to the other side of the table. It's not like I haven't suffered those kinds of defeats in 6th! Maybe we would only move the Space Marines though? I mean, if it's over in turn 1 with no hope, then why don't we just move the Marines back and swap places, then you can put the toys where you want and I'll groan dramatically. We could even play it as a Maelstrom mission for extra lulz!

Then we can play that proppa grim dark 40k that we all love!

I'm with darkcloak on this one. If someone wants to field their Skyhammer Annihilation Force, I'll play 'em once for fun, why not? If it's someone that I'd play with anyhow, we'll just play something else after I lose all my good stuff by T2 in a hilariously short game. Then we can laugh, and play a game with something else.

If someone doesn't want to play anything else, they wouldn't be a player I'd play with anyhow, so no loss for me!

**darkcloak**

@ Dakkamite

In all honesty I can't see Orks keeping that book for very long. And why would they? GW can pretty much release 8th edition right now and everyone would pile on the cart.

I'm not trying to put you down man, I'm just saying that if GW wants to drown us in cheese we ought to just ignore it, or have a good laugh and call it a day. Like I said there is nothing stopping me from taking the Skyhammer of Doomy Death Doom and not being a jerk with it. I'm sure that the OP is going to be able to find ways to run that formation fairly too, if he so chose.

Just give the game another year and everybody will be summoning daemonic Knight Castellans with SOB Priestess of Pricegouge and a Skaven Warlord riding on top! The hard counter to that? I dunno, a SupaDupaStompa Formation with the new Jelly Donut Ork Clan?

Literally dude, take your pick out of any zany thing you can think of and it's probably already in the works.

**lustigjh**

darkcloak wrote:
Literally dude, take your pick out of any zany thing you can think of and it's probably already in the works.

Balanced rules and reasonable pricing? Or is that a different type of zany

**niv-mizzet**

lustigjh wrote:
darkcloak wrote:
Literally dude, take your pick out of any zany thing you can think of and it's probably already in the works.

Balanced rules and reasonable pricing? Or is that a different type of zany

Whoa now let's not get crazy here.

**Sarigar**

quickfuze wrote:
Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates just bought the Skyhammer Annihilation Force to get my Marines started. Thinking of going with either the Imperial Fists, Fire Hawks, BT, or the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, as I will most likely run other Drop Pod units with this formation. These are some of the ideas that I had to go with the formation:

* Pedro Kantor w/ Honor Guard in a Drop Pod, 2x Tac Squads in Drop Pods. Just a start but would potentially allow me to have a very nasty Alpha Strike army, as I could go Hvy Bolters for the Devestators to capitalize the IF Chapter Tactic and throw in some Sternguard units for the anti-tank.

* BT: Squads in LRC 's would be a great support to this formation, you throw in the EC and some Crusader Squads to create a nasty list.

* Fire Hawks: Utilize the Assault Marines to there full potential, and can be supported by anything as well as the Devestators. A very flexible army Chapter Tactic.

Not sure how I would capitalize on the Raven Guard but advice is most welcome in that regard.

I'd say pick whatever tactics match the color scheme you most enjoy painting....cause that's all you are going to be doing with it after you realize quickly that no one is going to play against you with it.

Man, I really hope this is not the general attitude out at Ft Bragg. If so, the 40K scene has really gone downhill. After 10 years there and leaving in 2013, that is the type of attitude I never encountered.

**Talys**

Sarigar wrote:
quickfuze wrote:
I'd say pick whatever tactics match the color scheme you most enjoy painting....cause that's all you are going to be doing with it after you realize quickly that no one is going to play against you with it.

Man, I really hope this is not the general attitude out at Ft Bragg. If so, the 40K scene has really gone downhill. After 10 years there and leaving in 2013, that is the type of attitude I never encountered.

Well, it's not the general attitude around here. There's a pretty healthy number of people who genuinely enjoy the game, and play it in the spirit of fun and entertainment that I think 40k was authored. We don't really have problems with people going totally overboard taking the craziest list possible; the people who have models to support such things have the decency and restraint to play different lists that are more suitable against less competitive opponents.

End of the day, it's a game, and no different than any other game or sport, you can play it competitively, play it for fun, or play ruin it for your opponent. I'm pretty good at tennis (was competitive when I as young!); if I'm playing against someone who is rusty or isn't that good, I'm not going for an ace every serve. Coz, you know, I like to keep my friends

**j31c3n**

I'd only have a real problem playing against Skyhammer if it's all you brought every freakin' time. But I'd never field one myself. No matter how useful it'd make my 3rd-4th ed assault marines.

**darkcloak**

lustigjh wrote:
darkcloak wrote:
Literally dude, take your pick out of any zany thing you can think of and it's probably already in the works.

Balanced rules and reasonable pricing? Or is that a different type of zany

Heresy!

Blam!

Now that I've thought about it all day...

If both players were into it, this formation could be played fairly. Really, if you designed the rest of your list in a non-crunchy way the main thing the opponent would have to worry about is surviving your initial onslaught. Which, honestly, if you have the models, wouldn't be impossible or even that hard. The main thing though is both parties being ready to play this sort of game. You'd also have to agree to leave the ruthless whiz in the cupboard, but it could be played and it might even be fun.

I could see this being fun in that the game gets going right from T1 and could actually be done before T6. Sure it's brutal and you have to be ready for it, but I think the SAF could be fun. It just heavily depends on both players.

**General Hobbs**

Interesting...it's Monday and the SAF is not for sale on the GW US website.......

**Sidstyler**

Probably sold out. They were only limited to like 200 or some stupid number like that. Limited edition "Pay to Win" rules.

**Poly Ranger**

darkcloak wrote:
lustigjh wrote:
darkcloak wrote:
Literally dude, take your pick out of any zany thing you can think of and it's probably already in the works.

Balanced rules and reasonable pricing? Or is that a different type of zany

Heresy!

Blam!

Now that I've thought about it all day...

If both players were into it, this formation could be played fairly. Really, if you designed the rest of your list in a non-crunchy way the main thing the opponent would have to worry about is surviving your initial onslaught. Which, honestly, if you have the models, wouldn't be impossible or even that hard. The main thing though is both parties being ready to play this sort of game. You'd also have to agree to leave the ruthless whiz in the cupboard, but it could be played and it might even be fun.

I could see this being fun in that the game gets going right from T1 and could actually be done before T6. Sure it's brutal and you have to be ready for it, but I think the SAF could be fun. It just heavily depends on both players.

My BA could not survive 39 average casualties on the drop just from the dev squads. This formation makes games an impossibility for many dexes without allies.

**Sarigar**

General Hobbs wrote:

Interesting...it's Monday and the SAF is not for sale on the GW US website.......

It was there on the US site. I ordered it from that site.

**zerosignal**

Sidstyler wrote:
Probably sold out. They were only limited to like 200 or some stupid number like that. Limited edition "Pay to Win" rules.

I for one am going to try out the formation (my housemate is quite happy playing cheese lists at least once, after all).

It won't cost me anything (already have the models, and the rules have been comprehensively spoiled).

I agree, it's pretty powerful. More experienced players than myself are however not convinced the sky is falling just yet (assault marines suck, it's a lot of points, you can counter deploy, coteaz, interceptor, etc.)

**Ironwolf45**

zerosignal wrote:
Sidstyler wrote:
Probably sold out. They were only limited to like 200 or some stupid number like that. Limited edition "Pay to Win" rules.

I for one am going to try out the formation (my housemate is quite happy playing cheese lists at least once, after all).

It won't cost me anything (already have the models, and the rules have been comprehensively spoiled).

I agree, it's pretty powerful. More experienced players than myself are however not convinced the sky is falling just yet (assault marines suck, it's a lot of points, you can counter deploy, coteaz, interceptor, etc.)

Assault Marines aren't the most effective but they are a solid choice, especially depending on which Chapter Tactic you give them. I personally like the Fire Hawks Chapter Tactic as it buffs them pretty well.

**Talys**

It turns out the way people were getting the Skyhammer rule "leaks" was simply reading the JPG off the Games Workshop website. LOL.

So save it and print it and have your own (legal, by any definition) copy of the formation.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99020101090_SkyhammerAnnihilationForce02.jpg

**Ashiraya**

Proxying in dreadclaws, havocs, and raptors.

There, fixed Codex: CSM.

**jokerkd**

I'll be honest. I'm considering buying it.

But i wonder if i should save my money for when the dark angels "pay to win" formation gets released

**Experiment 626**

Ashiraya wrote:
Proxying in dreadclaws, havocs, and raptors.

There, fixed Codex: CSM.

Are you kidding, if Chaos Marines ever got anything half this good there'd be calls by Loyalist players to burn all copies of our codex for daring to even think we're worthy of drinking from the Kool-Aid...

Hell, CSM players still get grief for fielding "Cheesedrakes".

**Roknar**

Just look at the whw fomrations. csm got all confused when they saw the light for a split second. Then they looked back at the ultrasmurf equivalent and they went back to shaming themselves.

**pwntallica**

I would absolutely play a formation like this. And just as soon not play it when my opponent asks me not to. It really is that simple. As for CT, I really can only recommend trying them each out a handful of times and seeing which you like best or synergies well with the rest of your army.

I can't wait for the new da codex. I hope it gets just a bit of Wtf cheese. That way I can bring it to play all the (insert army and insult here) that roflstomped me for the last decade, then shelve it when playing decent human beings.

**Makumba**

A friend fo mine pointed out interested thing the formation doesn't say you need to take assault marines and devastator marines from the same codex. Someone could take normal sm codex devastators to get grav cannons and BA assault space marines as those are called the same thing in their codex.

**j31c3n**

Makumba wrote:
A friend fo mine pointed out interested thing the formation doesn't say you need to take assault marines and devastator marines from the same codex. Someone could take normal sm codex devastators to get grav cannons and BA assault space marines as those are called the same thing in their codex.

I'm preeetty sure that's implied, if not expressly spelled out in the SM codex. I would definitely take issue with someone trying to pull this one.