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Hey mates just bought the Skyhammer Annihilation Force to get my Marines started. Thinking of going with either the Imperial Fists, Fire Hawks, BT, or the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, as I will most likely run other Drop Pod units with this formation. These are some of the ideas that I had to go with the formation:

* Pedro Kantor w/ Honor Guard in a Drop Pod, 2x Tac Squads in Drop Pods. Just a start but would potentially allow me to have a very nasty Alpha Strike army, as I could go Hvy Bolters for the Devestators to capitalize the IF Chapter Tactic and throw in some Sternguard units for the anti-tank.

* BT: Squads in LRC 's would be a great support to this formation, you throw in the EC and some Crusader Squads to create a nasty list.

* Fire Hawks: Utilize the Assault Marines to there full potential, and can be supported by anything as well as the Devestators. A very flexible army Chapter Tactic.

Not sure how I would capitalize on the Raven Guard but advice is most welcome in that regard.

What about the First Company formation to get your Sternguard in pods with Pedro?

 Eldarain wrote:
What about the First Company formation to get your Sternguard in pods with Pedro?

That is another option as well lol. Holy crap I totally forgot about that one. Definitely makes it a super strong Alpha Strike list.

Raven Guard?

Hmmm....

Well if you took the formation as RG you would get those dudes a fat cover save if you arrived on turn 1. Not sure how Winged Deliverance stacks with the rules provided by the formation but I'm sure there has to be a gem in there.

Also, you could functionally use terminators. You can add in a CAD right? If your big fat T1 cover save gets ignored you still have your invul. Not sure points cost, but maybe an HQ in termie armour too? No point taking any transports, so...

Footslog them so people go yay termies! :toomuchdakka:

Laugh as they shoot your distraction and gobble them up with your formation, or laugh even harder as they focus on your formation and your terminators get to do something!

In a large game you could take all terminators in your elite slot, and kit two out with HQs.

Ally in Pedro and his ObSec Sternies. Score all the obeje...ojebe... objetcti...

... fail.


Lol, RG might be the fluffy option for this formation, or it could be the ultimate turn one alpha strike option...

Also!

In typical Raven Guard fashion, part of our CT is already represented by this formations rules, in that ASM may use their packs in movement and assault. However re-rolling to hit and wound gives the humble RG ASM a huuuge boost.

Upon further contemplation I realize that with RG you could field almost anything, and have the survive-ability to go second in a null deployment. It only gets worse and worse for the opponent if you get initiative! The only hope of defeating such a list would be the ability to go first, and have enough firepower to nearly table the opponent in one shooting phase. Then you must withstand the formation itself... Regardless of how you deploy this would still be the case.

Allies and double CAD only make this more insane.

hehehe! Take that White Scars!

(Though in reality WS probably still do it better)





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or be super cheap and use RG to Drop Pod Assault a metric ton of units on turn 1 that the enemy has no hope of killing or making a dent in.

It's pretty much, I brought RG and SAF, I win. Lets play a different list.

take overpowered nonsense formation then laugh at your opponents attempts to deal with it

I would hate to play you IRL

 Dakkamite wrote:

take overpowered nonsense formation then laugh at your opponents attempts to deal with it

I would hate to play you IRL

Me?

Lord no you'd love it!

I'm just pointing out the absolute absurdity of the beast, I'd never expect anyone to play that stuff seriously, unless the Chaos Gods were real and challenged you to a game! Then maybe you should run White Scars, just to be sure! (I remembered to emote!)

It's not so much about laughing at your opponent, in that you ought to both be laughing at the insanity playing out on the table. Call it cheese casserole and accept that it's hilarious.

I'm not advocating that this is what 40k should be, but hey? Maybe this is the way to balance? If everyone gets to pull stunts like the SAF then aren't we all enjoying the "added personality"?

Maaaybeee it's an unintentional return to the tongue in cheek satire of the 80s? Yeah, everything is grim and dark, so grim and dark its funny. You can't even play the game competitively because the tables would simply implode under the weight of all the grim dark cheese!

darkcloak wrote:


Me?

Lord no you'd love it!

I'm just pointing out the absolute absurdity of the beast, I'd never expect anyone to play that stuff seriously, unless the Chaos Gods were real and challenged you to a game! Then maybe you should run White Scars, just to be sure! (I remembered to emote!)

It's not so much about laughing at your opponent, in that you ought to both be laughing at the insanity playing out on the table. Call it cheese casserole and accept that it's hilarious.

I'm not advocating that this is what 40k should be, but hey? Maybe this is the way to balance? If everyone gets to pull stunts like the SAF then aren't we all enjoying the "added personality"?

Maaaybeee it's an unintentional return to the tongue in cheek satire of the 80s? Yeah, everything is grim and dark, so grim and dark its funny. You can't even play the game competitively because the tables would simply implode under the weight of all the grim dark cheese!

People aren't generally amused by having their army butchered and routed turn 1 with no ability to even fight back. It's not really fun, and it's not something I'd enjoy "having a laugh at". Whilst many a 40k player can enjoy losing, it stops being fun when you place your guys on the table and them immediately remove them again without getting to move, fire a shot, or do anything.

So far as everyone doing it.. Where's the Orc equivilent? The IG? How about CSM, where's there laugh-riot formation?

I don't have the new SM codex yet, but this formation really seems to synergize very well with Locator Beacons. What units have access to them? Scouts/Landspeeder Storm/Dark Angels (although they are getting a new book this month).

 morganfreeman wrote:


People aren't generally amused by having their army butchered and routed turn 1 with no ability to even fight back. It's not really fun, and it's not something I'd enjoy "having a laugh at". Whilst many a 40k player can enjoy losing, it stops being fun when you place your guys on the table and them immediately remove them again without getting to move, fire a shot, or do anything.

So far as everyone doing it.. Where's the Orc equivilent? The IG? How about CSM, where's there laugh-riot formation?

Just wait a few weeks apparently, lol!

And yeah dude, obviously I agree with you, but for the sake of having fun I'd gladly step around to the other side of the table. It's not like I haven't suffered those kinds of defeats in 6th! Maybe we would only move the Space Marines though? I mean, if it's over in turn 1 with no hope, then why don't we just move the Marines back and swap places, then you can put the toys where you want and I'll groan dramatically. We could even play it as a Maelstrom mission for extra lulz!

Then we can play that proppa grim dark 40k that we all love!

 Sarigar wrote:
I don't have the new SM codex yet, but this formation really seems to synergize very well with Locator Beacons. What units have access to them? Scouts/Landspeeder Storm/Dark Angels (although they are getting a new book this month).

Inquisitors with servo skulls...

People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Back to the OP's topic I vote Imperial Fists, Pedro giving +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches really would help boost your Assault Marines.

New things in general really. Some stuff is strong, but it's much better for discussion to figure out how to beat it instead of acting like the sky is falling every single time...

 gmaleron wrote:
People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Back to the OP's topic I vote Imperial Fists, Pedro giving +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches really would help boost your Assault Marines.

IF currently have the lead, as I do love the idea using Pedro with Sternguard from the first company and this formation. However the Templar in me likes the idea of charging in with Crusaders while the Assault Marines distract my opponents. I have some options so just depends on how things work out.

 n0t_u wrote:
New things in general really. Some stuff is strong, but it's much better for discussion to figure out how to beat it instead of acting like the sky is falling every single time...

I know right?! Its just easier to complain and whine and make ridiculous claims and demands. At least we don't have crybabies demanding we ban Space Marines in friendly games, that was pathetic.

We get it. You're feeling empowered because you can finally avenge your butthurt from all of the negative Eldar threads.

I'm a Marine player and I don't like this one bit. BS formations like this are not good for the overall health of the game.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
We get it. You're feeling empowered because you can finally avenge your butthurt from all of the negative Eldar threads.

I'm a Marine player and I don't like this one bit. BS formations like this are not good for the overall health of the game.

Can we stay on topic guys. And is it strong, yes but it can be countered. And this formation actually makes Assault Marines viable again, so I think it's a good formation overall.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
We get it. You're feeling empowered because you can finally avenge your butthurt from all of the negative Eldar threads.

I'm a Marine player and I don't like this one bit. BS formations like this are not good for the overall health of the game.

Seriously? You are completely overreacting to this Formation. At smaller point games this thing will be nasty but the larger the points its effectiveness will drop off significantly. And if anyone is butt hurt apparently its you not being able to get over these Formations, guess what its happening and sticking around. Instead of moaning about maybe think constructively about countering it.

A counter huh? I know I could give GW a lot more money!

 gmaleron wrote:
People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Why do Marines get a free pass where literally any other army getting something comparable to the Skyhammer would have them frothing? I mean I agree with you, but I don't like how it seems everyone suddenly changed their attitude when Marines got theirs.

If Eldar got this formation people would be livid, and complaining non-stop about how Eldar break all the rules and it takes no thought or skill to play them. "Your assault units are guaranteed to get into assault and I can't stop it! That's bullgak!"

Ok people stay on topic. Sick and tired of people whining over a game. If you don't like it don't play. As it stands please stay on topic.

 morganfreeman wrote:


People aren't generally amused by having their army butchered and routed turn 1 with no ability to even fight back. It's not really fun, and it's not something I'd enjoy "having a laugh at". Whilst many a 40k player can enjoy losing, it stops being fun when you place your guys on the table and them immediately remove them again without getting to move, fire a shot, or do anything.

So far as everyone doing it.. Where's the Orc equivilent? The IG? How about CSM, where's there laugh-riot formation?

None of those, but Tau are apparently coming, and with them more fun (tm) web-exclusive formations that can probably shoot you before you even deploy, all long before the OP will likely have had a chance to get its stuff painted. Welcome to 40K.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Why do Marines get a free pass where literally any other army getting something comparable to the Skyhammer would have them frothing? I mean I agree with you, but I don't like how it seems everyone suddenly changed their attitude when Marines got theirs.

If Eldar got this formation people would be livid, and complaining non-stop about how Eldar break all the rules and it takes no thought or skill to play them. "Your assault units are guaranteed to get into assault and I can't stop it! That's bullgak!"

100% agree with this. It's the usual IoM bias

 gmaleron wrote:
People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Back to the OP's topic I vote Imperial Fists, Pedro giving +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches really would help boost your Assault Marines.

And what are people that play 1500pts suppose to do. I played against the dual version of this formation with some cad centurions, four times. Three times I was dead turn one, and one time I was dead turn 2, and only because my opponent had both bad rolls and decided to see what happens if he gives me a free turn doing objectives.

If you run fire hawks then you can get 3 flamers which have +1s on the turn you deepstrike which is awesome.


However since that would fry most opponents before you eassault them maybe just stick the Pedro and get that +1 attack

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Ok would like to ask the moderator in charge of dakkadakka.com to close and delete this entire thread as people keep crying and complaining about this instead of staying on topic and actually answering my question. Please feel free to ban those who continue to derail this topic so they can vent and whine over a game.

That's not really how stuff works here. For one thing there's more than a single moderator, and the moderators aren't really "in charge" of Dakka. Two, straying off-topic in a thread isn't ban-worthy by itself, unless it happens continuously in the same thread despite repeated requests from the moderators to stop. Three, asking the moderators to ban people is probably just going to irritate them more than anything, they'll ban people when and if the situation calls for it. Four, this thread hasn't even made it past the first page yet, and from what I can tell there have been quite a few on-topic posts in between the off-topic ones, so it seems a bit premature to call for a thread lock and whine about "no one answering your question" when people have actually attempted to engage in discussion with you.

If you want the thread to remain on-topic then the best thing to do is ignore off-topic posts and try to steer things back on course yourself. You should probably expect some off-topic posts, however, simply because the Skyhammer formation is new and somewhat controversial. You're not going to get a thread with completely on-topic posts about something that's got people so worked up, it's just not happening.

As for your question, I can't answer because 1) I don't have the new codex and 2) know feth-all about Marines anyway and don't really care. I have about the same amount of contempt for them as people have for my Tau (and by extension me). Personally though everything in your first post sounds good to me, and it sounds like you kinda already have a good idea about what to do with the formation so I'm not sure what advice you could really use.

Ultramarines are the best chapter tactic for this formation. Anyone who says otherwise isn't ready to accept their spiritual liege. And is wrong, of course.

I also enjoy the irony of someone derailing a thread by crying about people derailing a thread.

Don't see how it's not being derailed when most of the peoples comments are complaining how op it is. And I heard Ultramarines a few times but I have never really could get behind them. Always have liked the Templars due to there fluff and recently started liking the Imperial Fists thank to the HH.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates just bought the Skyhammer Annihilation Force to get my Marines started. Thinking of going with either the Imperial Fists, Fire Hawks, BT, or the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, as I will most likely run other Drop Pod units with this formation. These are some of the ideas that I had to go with the formation:

* Pedro Kantor w/ Honor Guard in a Drop Pod, 2x Tac Squads in Drop Pods. Just a start but would potentially allow me to have a very nasty Alpha Strike army, as I could go Hvy Bolters for the Devestators to capitalize the IF Chapter Tactic and throw in some Sternguard units for the anti-tank.

* BT: Squads in LRC 's would be a great support to this formation, you throw in the EC and some Crusader Squads to create a nasty list.

* Fire Hawks: Utilize the Assault Marines to there full potential, and can be supported by anything as well as the Devestators. A very flexible army Chapter Tactic.

Not sure how I would capitalize on the Raven Guard but advice is most welcome in that regard.

I'm honestly not sure how you want people to reply to this without derailing the thread.
There's no real question, apart from advice in how to use RG tactics, but most people say UM are best, followed by IF/CF or Star Phantoms if you use FW.
People are more than welcome to say their opinions of the formation, as there isn't really a guideline for them to follow in the first place.

Yeah if someone says they have the Skyhammer bs Force I'm telling them either they play those as normal CAD squads or I'm taking 600 points of free upgrades with mechanicum/IKs. We'll just play "whoever gets turn one wins" and then maybe we can play a real game after.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
People really need to stop crying about the new Formation, seriously all the whining and complaining non stop about this game is over the top. Its a one trick pony where the larger the point value the game is the less effective the list will become and if you know its coming its not that hard to prepare for.

Why do Marines get a free pass where literally any other army getting something comparable to the Skyhammer would have them frothing? I mean I agree with you, but I don't like how it seems everyone suddenly changed their attitude when Marines got theirs.

If Eldar got this formation people would be livid, and complaining non-stop about how Eldar break all the rules and it takes no thought or skill to play them. "Your assault units are guaranteed to get into assault and I can't stop it! That's bullgak!"

Marine players in general I've found never see anything their army can do as anything remotely obnoxious/game ruining/over powered...
Instead their codex is eternally "middle of the road at best" because Tactical Marines are unplayable apparently, while their cheap av11 transports always die to a stiff breeze, and Drop Pods are merely a way to get their models killed faster.

Can you imagine is Chaos Marines got a formation even half this godly? We'd easily have Loyalist players up in arms demanding that Chaos get banned from every tournament!

Marine butthurt & over entitlement is the driving force of 40k.