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Thanks for your contribution hotsauce. Next time try not to quote a great slab of text to add nothing to the discussion.

Your all over the field there. In fact your in the wrong field and area. Your like on a rant or sputtering here. Step back, regroup, remember trigger squeeze this time, watch your breathing and maintain the same sight picture. Come back with something tangible

Edit

Spoiler

To be more clear, while talking about hero worship in the US is related in some way to the topic, posting about, or responding to a post about how enlistees spend their money is most definitely veering off topic, especially when the discussion starts in as pointless a way as it did.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Spoiler:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

You realize your making my point for me right?

I dont care about the "thank you for your service" nor do I feel entitled to it. I was merely pointing out that the "Thank you for your service" is comparable to the "whats up" or "How are you today". Its routine its just part of daily conversation it holds no meaning, So how is that considered hero worship? Businesses prey off the military as has been shown by others, it has nothing to do with "Hero Worship" and more to do with "Screwing the average junior enlistee out of his paycheck".

Nowhere have I said "I demand to be treated as a hero" and that is the problem. I haven't said anything like that and you guys jump all over me saying things like "but that isn't good enough for you" or what ouze said about having to be the coolest internet kid. It is just ridiculous. So because I disagree with you lot saying there is a culture of Hero worship in the US you guys treat me as if I am demanding more

You may not realize it, but your post proves mine! It is in your original quote (hidden behind the spoiler). You said:

when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen

Perhaps the quote above was poorly worded on your part, but when you are griping that "at best" you get an automatic response (similar in content and sincerity as nearly everyone everyone gets) you are demonstrating a need to be placed above everyone else. Otherwise why would you connect two different ideas in one sentence (military discounts and insincere sales people) if you did not mean to conflate the two? As you wrote it I read your sentence as "I get a 10% discount and (only at the best of times) a forced thank you for my military service." The implication being you should get more than what you are currently receiving in terms of gratitude from the public.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Spoiler:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

You realize your making my point for me right?

I dont care about the "thank you for your service" nor do I feel entitled to it. I was merely pointing out that the "Thank you for your service" is comparable to the "whats up" or "How are you today". Its routine its just part of daily conversation it holds no meaning, So how is that considered hero worship? Businesses prey off the military as has been shown by others, it has nothing to do with "Hero Worship" and more to do with "Screwing the average junior enlistee out of his paycheck".

Nowhere have I said "I demand to be treated as a hero" and that is the problem. I haven't said anything like that and you guys jump all over me saying things like "but that isn't good enough for you" or what ouze said about having to be the coolest internet kid. It is just ridiculous. So because I disagree with you lot saying there is a culture of Hero worship in the US you guys treat me as if I am demanding more

You may not realize it, but your post proves mine! It is in your original quote (hidden behind the spoiler). You said:

when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen

Perhaps the quote above was poorly worded on your part, but when you are griping that "at best" you get an automatic response (similar in content and sincerity as nearly everyone everyone gets) you are demonstrating a need to be placed above everyone else. Otherwise why would you connect two different ideas in one sentence (military discounts and insincere sales people) if you did not mean to conflate the two? As you wrote it I read your sentence as "I get a 10% discount and (only at the best of times) a forced thank you for my military service." The implication being you should get more than what you are currently receiving in terms of gratitude from the public.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ghazkuul's point pretty clearly was, if the hero worship ran as deep as people were claiming, an automatic, low-sincerity response wouldn't be the norm.

ding ding ding we have a winner

OR, that people feel they NEED to "Thank you for your Service" Precisely because that is the accepted cultural norm, because if you dont, you are disrespecting veterans.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
OR, that people feel they NEED to "Thank you for your Service" Precisely because that is the accepted cultural norm, because if you dont, you are disrespecting veterans.

You can feel free to present your argument with some evidence if you wish. I was simply trying to assist in the clarification of Ghazkuul's post. I was quite frankly surprised that it needed any clarification, but that's neither here nor there.

Ok, here is some evidence, Anecdotal as it may be My family, aswell as family friends, Have always thank a soldier for his service. even if they meet him on the bus. When Asked why, they said "Cause you are supposed to" The thing is, it would be VERY public, as if they where making a show of loving vets.
People very do hero-worship and veterans very much expect discounts. at my work, they would always flash their Military ID for booze(When their in their wallet I could see a state ID) and then ask why its still 8$ for a beer. It must of happened to me like 4 times this summer.
Veterans very much expect preferential treatment for alot of things. There was a video around the sandy hook shootings where a veteran basically said "I saw friends die for this country, listen to me because of that, My View is more important"

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, here is some evidence, Anecdotal as it may be My family, aswell as family friends, Have always thank a soldier for his service. even if they meet him on the bus. When Asked why, they said "Cause you are supposed to" The thing is, it would be VERY public, as if they where making a show of loving vets.
People very do hero-worship and veterans very much expect discounts. at my work, they would always flash their Military ID for booze(When their in their wallet I could see a state ID) and then ask why its still 8$ for a beer. It must of happened to me like 4 times this summer.
Veterans very much expect preferential treatment for alot of things. There was a video around the sandy hook shootings where a veteran basically said "I saw friends die for this country, listen to me because of that, My View is more important"

I wont lie, I ask every new business I go into if they have a veterans discount, not because i expect it but because I am cheap and If I can get 5% or 10% off something I'll try for it .

I Have never seen anyone try to use a military ID to buy booze....ever. Thats about the one place I would't even bother attempting to get the discount because it doesn't seem like they would do it ever because of all the regulations and the running costs but hey whatever

Regardless, I just think that the constant harping on about "hero Workship" is a bit exaggerated, the majority of the "Hero Worship" is a public greeting which most people do out of habit not respect, sometimes getting a 5-10% discount on certain items at stores.

Maybe I'm different but I don't expect people to thank me nor do I want them too. The only time I mention that i was even in the military is if someone else brings it up (although many people tell me they can tell. Most even pick the right branch).

I've never carried my military I.D. with me. And I never ask about discounts. I just don't think that my military service should count for more than say a teacher or fireman/paramedic.

And my response to the questions Jihadin listed are pretty much the same.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, here is some evidence, Anecdotal as it may be My family, aswell as family friends, Have always thank a soldier for his service. even if they meet him on the bus. When Asked why, they said "Cause you are supposed to" The thing is, it would be VERY public, as if they where making a show of loving vets.
People very do hero-worship and veterans very much expect discounts. at my work, they would always flash their Military ID for booze(When their in their wallet I could see a state ID) and then ask why its still 8$ for a beer. It must of happened to me like 4 times this summer.
Veterans very much expect preferential treatment for alot of things. There was a video around the sandy hook shootings where a veteran basically said "I saw friends die for this country, listen to me because of that, My View is more important"

I wont lie, I ask every new business I go into if they have a veterans discount, not because i expect it but because I am cheap and If I can get 5% or 10% off something I'll try for it .

I Have never seen anyone try to use a military ID to buy booze....ever. Thats about the one place I would't even bother attempting to get the discount because it doesn't seem like they would do it ever because of all the regulations and the running costs but hey whatever

Regardless, I just think that the constant harping on about "hero Workship" is a bit exaggerated, the majority of the "Hero Worship" is a public greeting which most people do out of habit not respect, sometimes getting a 5-10% discount on certain items at stores.

Again, let me ask you why people feel the "Thank You" is required? I mean look at some of the things that go on. Recently, Donald Trump showed up in my Feed as "Donald Trump Supports Veterans" in a weird story. It was obvious my friend shared it cause "He supports our vets" or the stuff like " Ignore if you hate vets" there is a Massive pressure to show respect to vets.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Again, let me ask you why people feel the "Thank You" is required? I mean look at some of the things that go on. Recently, Donald Trump showed up in my Feed as "Donald Trump Supports Veterans" in a weird story. It was obvious my friend shared it cause "He supports our vets" or the stuff like " Ignore if you hate vets" there is a Massive pressure to show respect to vets.

I'm not him, but I'll tell you why a lot of people seem to think it's required these days.

Part of it is a holdover from the anti-backlash, for lack of a better word, to the way veterans and the military in general were treated after Vietnam. The "people spat on us and called us baby-killers at the airport" stories are overblown, but America was not at all pro-military after Vietnam, especially during the Carter years. As a society, we've kind of realized we placed the blame on the wrong shoulders for that one.

The rest of it comes from the emotional aftershock of 9/11, I believe. A whole lot of people were very angry, and very much wanted to do something. Most didn't. Some did. The most that didn't took it upon themselves to thank the some that did as a method of signalling - I'm with you, buddy, or at least I would have been if <insert reason>.

I can't speak for all vets any more than I can speak for all members of whatever other group, but I was never a fan of it. It's an awkward thing to be told, and there's no good response to it, and I'd much rather you bought the guys who were getting shot at on the ground a beer instead. Pissing into a bag while sitting in the same position for six hours is child's play by comparison, as much as it sucked at the time.

Seaward wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Again, let me ask you why people feel the "Thank You" is required? I mean look at some of the things that go on. Recently, Donald Trump showed up in my Feed as "Donald Trump Supports Veterans" in a weird story. It was obvious my friend shared it cause "He supports our vets" or the stuff like " Ignore if you hate vets" there is a Massive pressure to show respect to vets.

I'm not him, but I'll tell you why a lot of people seem to think it's required these days.

Part of it is a holdover from the anti-backlash, for lack of a better word, to the way veterans and the military in general were treated after Vietnam. The "people spat on us and called us baby-killers at the airport" stories are overblown, but America was not at all pro-military after Vietnam, especially during the Carter years. As a society, we've kind of realized we placed the blame on the wrong shoulders for that one.

The rest of it comes from the emotional aftershock of 9/11, I believe. A whole lot of people were very angry, and very much wanted to do something. Most didn't. Some did. The most that didn't took it upon themselves to thank the some that did as a method of signalling - I'm with you, buddy, or at least I would have been if <insert reason>.

I can't speak for all vets any more than I can speak for all members of whatever other group, but I was never a fan of it. It's an awkward thing to be told, and there's no good response to it, and I'd much rather you bought the guys who were getting shot at on the ground a beer instead. Pissing into a bag while sitting in the same position for six hours is child's play by comparison, as much as it sucked at the time.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I don't think Vietnam has anything to do with it. most people walking around now weren't around when that was happening.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


Perhaps the quote above was poorly worded on your part, but when you are griping that "at best" you get an automatic response (similar in content and sincerity as nearly everyone everyone gets) you are demonstrating a need to be placed above everyone else. Otherwise why would you connect two different ideas in one sentence (military discounts and insincere sales people) if you did not mean to conflate the two? As you wrote it I read your sentence as "I get a 10% discount and (only at the best of times) a forced thank you for my military service." The implication being you should get more than what you are currently receiving in terms of gratitude from the public.

Look, I hate baby-murdering jarheads as much as the next hard left islamist appeasing loony, but even I can plainly see the Ghazkul's using his example to demonstrate that he experiences no military worship in the States.

That is absolute insanity. If people are offended by a military uniform, to the point that they may assault a service member, then they don't belong in the nation.

That's all very well but realistically the role of hospital A&E is to treat patients, not to act as a kind of hate crime police department.

 feeder wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


Perhaps the quote above was poorly worded on your part, but when you are griping that "at best" you get an automatic response (similar in content and sincerity as nearly everyone everyone gets) you are demonstrating a need to be placed above everyone else. Otherwise why would you connect two different ideas in one sentence (military discounts and insincere sales people) if you did not mean to conflate the two? As you wrote it I read your sentence as "I get a 10% discount and (only at the best of times) a forced thank you for my military service." The implication being you should get more than what you are currently receiving in terms of gratitude from the public.

Look, I hate baby-murdering jarheads as much as the next hard left islamist appeasing loony, but even I can plainly see the Ghazkul's using his example to demonstrate that he experiences no military worship in the States.

Cute. You are exhibiting the same problem Ghaz did in another thread, taking any criticism aimed at veterans and construing it as hate of the military on the part of the critic. That gak got tired a decade ago. Do you have any other moldy chestnuts you'd like to trot out to attack me?


And Ghaz's point was not clear, as I stated. I'll take him at his word that he was purely commenting on the lack of enthusiastic greetings as a sign that military hero worship doesn't exist. I'll happily disagree with him on that point and merely offer that he may be too biased to recognize it even when it is right in front of him.

Are we saying that a lack of military hero worship is what caused the moving of the British soldier in the British hospital?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


Perhaps the quote above was poorly worded on your part, but when you are griping that "at best" you get an automatic response (similar in content and sincerity as nearly everyone everyone gets) you are demonstrating a need to be placed above everyone else. Otherwise why would you connect two different ideas in one sentence (military discounts and insincere sales people) if you did not mean to conflate the two? As you wrote it I read your sentence as "I get a 10% discount and (only at the best of times) a forced thank you for my military service." The implication being you should get more than what you are currently receiving in terms of gratitude from the public.

Look, I hate baby-murdering jarheads as much as the next hard left islamist appeasing loony, but even I can plainly see the Ghazkul's using his example to demonstrate that he experiences no military worship in the States.

Cute. You are exhibiting the same problem Ghaz did in another thread, taking any criticism aimed at veterans and construing it as hate of the military on the part of the critic. That gak got tired a decade ago. Do you have any other moldy chestnuts you'd like to trot out to attack me?


And Ghaz's point was not clear, as I stated. I'll take him at his word that he was purely commenting on the lack of enthusiastic greetings as a sign that military hero worship doesn't exist. I'll happily disagree with him on that point and merely offer that he may be too biased to recognize it even when it is right in front of him.

That's not what I was getting at, and I didn't mean to get your back up.

I really just wanted to use "baby-murdering jarhead" and "hard left loony" is a sentence. The views expressed ITT are pretty out there, IMO.

You think by now I'd be jaded to the level of vitriol some people can summon over the most innocuous subjects, but here we are.

Please accept my apology.

Relapse wrote:
Are we saying that a lack of military hero worship is what caused the moving of the British soldier in the British hospital?

There seem to be two issues at hand in the threa.

The first is the idea that "political correctness" caused the hospital staff to seclude the RAF man in order to avoid giving offence to other patients.

The second is the idea that in modern US culture there is a particularly high level of regard for the armed services, leading to various public demonstrations of support e.g. discounts, special treatment, the Stolen Valor Act (2006) and so on.

The hospital moved the RAF man to a private room for treatment to avoid the possibility of an altercatioon arising in the general A&E waiting area. The RAF man's father was offended by this, complained and the hospital apoligised.

If anything, the RAF man got better treatment than a general member of the public but it was for his protection as a patient and for the general security of the hospital, not because of 'hero worship'.

Relapse wrote:Are we saying that a lack of military hero worship is what caused the moving of the British soldier in the British hospital?

-Shrike- wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

No, of course not. There are, obviously, occasional exceptions to that, but those people are few and far between. However, there isn't the same culture of veteran worship that the US seems to have. Whilst we respect people that fought for our country (or the interests of our leader), veterans in the UK are not really treated any differently to most other people. Of course, not being a veteran myself, I can't speak for everyone, this is only the impression I have.

I think this is how the hero worship tangent started, so you can blame me for that. The soldier was moved purely because of a previous altercation involving someone wearing uniform, so for his own safety and to prevent a repeat incident, he was moved out of sight of the general waiting room.

The military personnel should be hero worshiped, well, infantry anyway, they ARE better than everyone else.

Obvious bias aside, and jokes aside, the fella was moved for his own safety, I don't see an issue, sure in the UK the general public couldn't give a flying "duck" about the military force that allows them the freedom to complain about there crapy pointless little lives, but as Cecil the lion has taught us, they only care when the "perception" of caring is brought up.

Kinda like "hey George, see that fella, he's homeless, ex army"
George "sod him, lazy sod, get a job"
Fella "but he has ptsd, no leg and a custard stain on his shirt"
George "so what, isn't my problem"

A week later the homeless man dies, so the news report that a "a poor homeless person has died, and was ex forces, what a disgusting turn of events"

George "that's disgusting, we must help all ex forces homeless people, COS THE NEWSES DON TOLDED ME, DURP DURP"

A month later and everyone is back to not giving a sh...poo.

 Formosa wrote:
The military personnel should be hero worshiped, well, infantry anyway, they ARE better than everyone else.

Obvious bias aside, and jokes aside, the fella was moved for his own safety, I don't see an issue, sure in the UK the general public couldn't give a flying "duck" about the military force that allows them the freedom to complain about there crapy pointless little lives, but as Cecil the lion has taught us, they only care when the "perception" of caring is brought up.

Kinda like "hey George, see that fella, he's homeless, ex army"
George "sod him, lazy sod, get a job"
Fella "but he has ptsd, no leg and a custard stain on his shirt"
George "so what, isn't my problem"

A week later the homeless man dies, so the news report that a "a poor homeless person has died, and was ex forces, what a disgusting turn of events"

George "that's disgusting, we must help all ex forces homeless people, COS THE NEWSES DON TOLDED ME, DURP DURP"

A month later and everyone is back to not giving a sh...poo.

exalted for truth.

yellowfever wrote:
I don't think Vietnam has anything to do with it. most people walking around now weren't around when that was happening.

Maybe not the kids nowdays, but plenty of guys my dad's age were in Nam. So are lot of those vets are hitting grandparent age. I would assume they got a fairly raw deal with how they were treated and may have instilled with their kids and grandkids the idea to treat vets with respect and place proper blame with the higher ups in government where it belongs. Still plenty of Nam and even Korea vets around, WWII vets however are dying off very fast.

A lot of Iraq and Afghan vets are coming back missing body parts from explosives which is also a change in the type of injuries compared to wars in the past. Dessert Storm for instance was a very different type of war compared to the protracted engagements we have going on now. There's a lot higher percentage of vets who are coming back completely disabled.

Do people get up in arms over seniors getting an discount? I don't see any issue with offering a discount to attract business while also saying thank you for people you respect. Be it for police, soldiers, firemen who all risk their lives to some degree doing jobs most wouldn't, or respect to an older generation who could use a bit lighter load for having worked their whole lives.

I don't consider it hero worship but I do respect their jobs as it's something I'm unable to do myself and because of what they offer society I benefit as a result of those efforts. Still can't wrap my head around why somebody would assault any type of patient because of a uniform, that seems really bizzare. I guess I'm not used to my hospitals being a brawl room waiting to happen.

They will likely blame the brown people, used to blame the black people, before that it was the Indians, French, Normans, vikings!!

But in all honesty, it was likely some drunk or drugged up arse that caused the previous issue.