RAF Sergeant in hospital moved because "uniform may cause offence"

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**angelofvengeance**

Bloody politically-correct stupidity at its best-

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34368332?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=news_central

A hospital has apologised after an RAF sergeant was moved away from other patients because staff said his uniform might cause offence.
Sgt Mark Prendeville was taken to the Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother Hospital in Margate, Kent, after an accident during a training exercise.
A member of staff moved him so other patients could not see the 38-year-old.
A previous "altercation" involving a man in uniform led to the sergeant being moved, the hospital said.
The aircraft engineer needed medical attention after chemicals from a fire extinguisher got into his eyes while training at RAF Manston, Kent, on Wednesday.
Sgt Prendeville was asked to move from the hospital's main waiting area into a different part of the accident and emergency department by a female member of staff, out of the view of the public.
The hospital told the BBC he responded warmly to this proposal.
'Didn't make a fuss'
But Sgt Prendeville's father, Jim Prendeville, told BBC Radio 5 live the treatment of his son was "shameful".
"To say I was incensed would put it mildly.
"He's a very quiet man he didn't want to make a lot of fuss."
"He was more upset by the way he was treated because of his uniform, than he was about the burns in his eyes," he said.
Sgt Prendeville has served in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Iraq, and he was wearing his combat uniform when he arrived at the hospital.
'Good faith'
A spokesman for East Kent University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust said: "A member of the armed forces in uniform attended our A&E and was asked by a member of staff if he wanted to sit inside the department rather than the waiting room.
"This employee was acting in good faith because previously, there had been an altercation between a member of the public and a different member of the armed forces in uniform."
The spokesman also said the hospital trust was "absolutely clear that members of Her Majesty's armed forces, whether in uniform or not, should not be treated any differently to any other person".
"We are now making this point clear to all our members of staff and will seek to make sure that this never happens again," he added

**Henry**

The thing to bear in mind is that this wasn't hospital policy - no rules were in place for politically-correct nonsense reasons. This is people being stupid and not an indication of a general attitude or policy towards the military or our uniform.

**Kilkrazy**

I don't agree it is hospital staff being stupid from political correctness.

At first report it looks like that but when you realise he was moved to a private room for treatment to avoid the possibility of being attacked by someone else, it looks much more like a sensible precaution.

Note also that the person complaining is not the sergeant, it is his father, who wasn't there, and is borrowing outrage.

If there is any political correctness involved it is in the hospital's apology to the father. They should perhaps merely have stated it was done for the sergeant's protection, rather than blah blah blah wimp out to poutrage.

**SilverMK2**

I agree with KK on all points. If you have a history of issues between certain groups or individuals, you should always try to minimise the chance of it happening again in the future. In this case it seems to have been done by fast tracking the treatment of someone in uniform.

**Relapse**

This is an odd day since I am agreeing with Killrazy and Silver. It seems as though the hospital staff member was moving to protect the Sgt.
What interests me is what initiated the scuffle with the other service member, and what area of town this hospital is in.

If this article is accurate about Margate, it seem unsurprising a fight happened in the waiting area

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247807/Margate-worlds-resorts-Trust-East-Germany-wind-farms.html

**Ghazkuul**

SilverMK2 wrote:
I agree with KK on all points. If you have a history of issues between certain groups or individuals, you should always try to minimise the chance of it happening again in the future. In this case it seems to have been done by fast tracking the treatment of someone in uniform.

Just want to point out that a lot of people are OK with moving the sergeant to "Protect" him from a general populace that apparently is so violent to the armed forces that he may have been assaulted just for wearing his uniform in a hospital.

But a lot of people are also outraged that Transgender people were given their own bathroom to protect them and the public from gender issues.

Kind of a weird situation.

As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

**Relapse**

Ghazkuul wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
I agree with KK on all points. If you have a history of issues between certain groups or individuals, you should always try to minimise the chance of it happening again in the future. In this case it seems to have been done by fast tracking the treatment of someone in uniform.

Just want to point out that a lot of people are OK with moving the sergeant to "Protect" him from a general populace that apparently is so violent to the armed forces that he may have been assaulted just for wearing his uniform in a hospital.

But a lot of people are also outraged that Transgender people were given their own bathroom to protect them and the public from gender issues.

Kind of a weird situation.

As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

After a quick Google search, it seems the district(Thanet) in England that hospital is located in seems to be a fairly high crime area:

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/kent_s_top_10_violent_crime_spots_revealed_1_2201955

Thanet sounds like it has some serious issues:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanet

**-Shrike-**

Ghazkuul wrote:
As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

No, of course not. There are, obviously, occasional exceptions to that, but those people are few and far between. However, there isn't the same culture of veteran worship that the US seems to have. Whilst we respect people that fought for our country (or the interests of our leader), veterans in the UK are not really treated any differently to most other people. Of course, not being a veteran myself, I can't speak for everyone, this is only the impression I have.

**dekinrie**

if anything the military's standing in the public eye has gone up with the introduction of armed forces day which consists of parades military bands and units and equipment on display, this as well as street recruiting teams set up every 2-3 weeks with no trouble this is in Glasgow

**Orlanth**

Kilkrazy wrote:
At first report it looks like that but when you realise he was moved to a private room for treatment to avoid the possibility of being attacked by someone else, it looks much more like a sensible precaution.

If this was so it would be because of 'security reasons'. 'Causing offense' is because a vocal minority, sometimes hard left, most likely Islamics would be offended by his presence to the extent they would feel entitled to kick off.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Note also that the person complaining is not the sergeant, it is his father, who wasn't there, and is borrowing outrage.

A fathers outrage over the mistreatment of his injured son is hardly 'borrowed outraged'.

Oh and yes political correctness has everything to do with this. I know the family of one primary school student who was not allowed to do a talk on what his father did for a living with the rest of the class because his dad was in the RAF. Thre kid whose dad was in prison could however, as dealing drugs doesn't 'cause offense'.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ghazkuul wrote:

As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

No. I fact most are very supportive. For a start Help the Heroes, and the Poppy Appeal are popular charities, and most people honour our remembrances.

However there are some hard left fanatics who hate 'baby killers', and our Islamic extremist community, which feels empowered to rile at anything not part of their own culture but especially the military due to the deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

**Silent Puffin?**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I don't agree it is hospital staff being stupid from political correctness.

At first report it looks like that but when you realise he was moved to a private room for treatment to avoid the possibility of being attacked by someone else, it looks much more like a sensible precaution.

Note also that the person complaining is not the sergeant, it is his father, who wasn't there, and is borrowing outrage.

If there is any political correctness involved it is in the hospital's apology to the father. They should perhaps merely have stated it was done for the sergeant's protection, rather than blah blah blah wimp out to poutrage.

Indeed, plus he almost certain got seen a lot earlier than he would have otherwise.

Storm in a cracked and stained teacup of tabloid OUTRAGE, as these stories almost universally are.

In certain areas wearing a uniform in public is discouraged for security reasons. I can't wear green outside of work at my current unit for example but in my last unit it was perfectly fine, I even used to do my supermarket shop in uniform as it was was on my way home. In general people just don't care (some random guy did buy me breakfast once, although I'm sure that was due to my rugged good looks).

Orlanth wrote:

However there are some hard left fanatics who hate 'baby killers', and our Islamic extremist community, which feels empowered to rile at anything not part of their own culture but especially the military due to the deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have served for nearly 12 years and I have never yet encountered any 'hard left fanatics' nor anyone else acting in a hostile manner. Another storm in a teacup?

**Henry**

We sometimes get contradictory orders coming through about wearing uniform. Sometimes it's encouraged, then something bad happens and we're banned from wearing it in public, then the papers get hold of that and have a dicky fit about being banned from wearing it in public, then we're encouraged to wear it and the cycle starts all over again.

Never had a problem wearing it around town, but there was one lass I used to work with who got spat on at a petrol station while wearing blues. Shook her up a bit. It's very different from the US though. Getting random people shaking your hand and saying thanks is fun the first couple of times, but there's an undercurrent of sycophancy in America that can be unsettling.

**Ouze**

Edit: eh, why.

**Seaward**

Silent Puffin? wrote:

I have served for nearly 12 years and I have never yet encountered any 'hard left fanatics' nor anyone else acting in a hostile manner. Another storm in a teacup?

Really? Even we get the occasional group of nuts standing outside Oceana on air show days protesting.

**Silent Puffin?**

Seaward wrote:

Really? Even we get the occasional group of nuts standing outside Oceana on air show days protesting.

Nothing at all, I currently work at a highly visible unit in Birmingham as well.

**Jimsolo**

He was treated politely, and asked to move to avoid a conflict (one which had occurred previously). I'm not seeing a problem.

**Relapse**

Jimsolo wrote:
He was treated politely, and asked to move to avoid a conflict (one which had occurred previously). I'm not seeing a problem.

The hospital in question appears to receive a good rating. Considering the crap(according to what I've found about it)area it's located in, that's an accomplishment.

**d-usa**

Yeah, it looks like he was moved because the uniform may make someone act like an idiot, not because wearing the uniform makes him an idiot.

I can accept a "hey sir, sorry people are dicks, can we invite you to sit in here so people don't bother you", but I guess that makes the hospital mean towards the military?

Good job sneaking a "damn Muslims" into the discussion before page two though, keep it up Dakka!

**Nostromodamus**

-Shrike- wrote:
Ghazkuul wrote:
As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

No, of course not. There are, obviously, occasional exceptions to that, but those people are few and far between. However, there isn't the same culture of veteran worship that the US seems to have. Whilst we respect people that fought for our country (or the interests of our leader), veterans in the UK are not really treated any differently to most other people. Of course, not being a veteran myself, I can't speak for everyone, this is only the impression I have.

Correct. In the UK a soldier is a respected career path alongside others like teachers or scientists. In the US, soldiers are regarded as being better than everyone else.

**jhe90**

it was a move to reduce the risk of a conflict and make his visit to the hospital easier, a stressful time when your injured, no one needs some nutter attacking you as well on top.

they did the best to ensure his safety if there was a known risk. also any kicking off would risk others, or staff. so safer for all involved in the log run. not ideal but not every solution is.

**Orlanth**

Silent Puffin? wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

However there are some hard left fanatics who hate 'baby killers', and our Islamic extremist community, which feels empowered to rile at anything not part of their own culture but especially the military due to the deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have served for nearly 12 years and I have never yet encountered any 'hard left fanatics' nor anyone else acting in a hostile manner. Another storm in a teacup?

It's possible the hard left might see you as a kindred soul. However its likely you were either lucky or just not paying attention with regards to the 'anyone else'.

The Hard left is considerably less of a problem and is certainly there. The teachers I mentioned in the earlier anecdote, and the loony left are heavily representative in the NUT and the NASUWT. It has more to do with appeasement than their own agendas in most cases. The sort of BS my friends family were subjected to was part of the Birmingham Islamification of schools the government finally cracked down on last year, and that hit the press. Though often hard left appeasers would do the dirty work of the Islamists with regards to making service families unwelcome. Make no mistake, service families have suffered severe discrimination, and this sort of discrimination, when a child is the victim is heavily damaging.

I also have my own experiences of of hard left discrimination in the teaching profession from back in the 70's which I will not go into here.

Besides your reply is interesting enough. If he left perceive right wing discrimination, its a 'culture of discrimination', even if based on isolated incidents. The opposite is just a 'storm in a teacup' or 'hearsay' and evidence of equal weighting is dismissed. Part of the most damaging legacies of the hard left has been a very lobsided weighting on offense and entitlement to be offended.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jimsolo wrote:
He was treated politely, and asked to move to avoid a conflict (one which had occurred previously). I'm not seeing a problem.

I am sorry you will have to move to another room. Because you are a black/Jew/homosexual/soldier/Christian you might cause offense if an extremist sees you.

Response:

a) Those extremists should learn tolerance.

b) I am sorry, indeed I am a black/Jewish/gay/serving/church going, it is quite understandable that some might not like having someone like me in their community. I ought to not show my face in case it causes a problem.

**Elemental**

d-usa wrote:
Yeah, it looks like he was moved because the uniform may make someone act like an idiot, not because wearing the uniform makes him an idiot.

I can accept a "hey sir, sorry people are dicks, can we invite you to sit in here so people don't bother you", but I guess that makes the hospital mean towards the military?

Good job sneaking a "damn Muslims" into the discussion before page two though, keep it up Dakka!

In fairness, Orlanth was raging at "Islamics" rather than Muslims. I don't quite grasp what the difference is myself--maybe it's Muslims working in concert with the insidious Hard Left to fell our once-great nation?

**Orlanth**

Elemental wrote:

In fairness, Orlanth was raging at "Islamics" rather than Muslims. I don't quite grasp what the difference is myself--maybe it's Muslims working in concert with the insidious Hard Left to fell our once-great nation?

Islamists. I dont think I said Islamics, if I did it would be a mistype.

A 'Moslem' or 'Islamic' is someone who follows Islam as a relgion.

An 'Islamist' is a subset of Islamic who wants you to serve Islam too, or otherwise be removed, and does not want to tolerate you having any other choice in the matter.

**Relapse**

Orlanth wrote:
Elemental wrote:

In fairness, Orlanth was raging at "Islamics" rather than Muslims. I don't quite grasp what the difference is myself--maybe it's Muslims working in concert with the insidious Hard Left to fell our once-great nation?

Islamists. I dont think I said Islamics, if I did it would be a mistype.

A 'Moslem' or 'Islamic' is someone who follows Islam as a relgion.

An 'Islamist' is a subset of Islamic who wants you to serve Islam too, or otherwise be removed, and does not want to tolerate you having any other choice in the matter.

Like the two guys who beheaded the soldier over his t shirt?

**Orlanth**

Relapse wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
Elemental wrote:

In fairness, Orlanth was raging at "Islamics" rather than Muslims. I don't quite grasp what the difference is myself--maybe it's Muslims working in concert with the insidious Hard Left to fell our once-great nation?

Islamists. I dont think I said Islamics, if I did it would be a mistype.

A 'Moslem' or 'Islamic' is someone who follows Islam as a relgion.

An 'Islamist' is a subset of Islamic who wants you to serve Islam too, or otherwise be removed, and does not want to tolerate you having any other choice in the matter.

Like the two guys who beheaded the soldier over his t shirt?

Yeah, though AFAIK it wasnt over his t-shirt. He was targeted because of his profession.

Lee Rigby

**motyak**

None of which has anything to do with the topic. No more "loony left does bidding of evil islamists to get all the soldier's families", no more "left is the ultimate evil" sort of off topic ramblings. The topic is a guy was asked to move rooms. Stop slagging creeds and religions in generally, especially when they are only tangentially, or not at all, related to the topic.

**Orlanth**

motyak wrote:
None of which has anything to do with the topic. No more "loony left does bidding of evil islamists to get all the soldier's families", no more "left is the ultimate evil" sort of off topic ramblings. The topic is a guy was asked to move rooms. Stop slagging creeds and religions in generally, especially when they are only tangentially, or not at all, related to the topic.

Quoted for untruth

Motive is relevant.

You were asked to return the the topic and did not

**Silent Puffin?**

Orlanth wrote:
However its likely you were either lucky or just not paying attention with regards to the 'anyone else'.

Define 'likely'. I have spent 3/4 of my military career in parts of the country with significant Muslim populations; I work in areas in which I am highly visable for at least some of the working day and which don't have a large military population. Basically if anyone was going to receive a negative reaction from a member of the public I would be a prime candidate but I have had nothing happen to me at all. Clearly I am simply living a in a 'loony left' fantasy land.

I am aware that incidents happen, there is a reason why my unit's standing orders don't allow me to wear uniform outside of the (public) building, but they are hardly widespread.

**SilverMK2**

Ghazkuul wrote:

Just want to point out that a lot of people are OK with moving the sergeant to "Protect" him from a general populace that apparently is so violent to the armed forces that he may have been assaulted just for wearing his uniform in a hospital.

But a lot of people are also outraged that Transgender people were given their own bathroom to protect them and the public from gender issues.

Kind of a weird situation.

Not really. The hospital staff were not invalidating the soldier as an individual or his lifestyle, career or anything else. You know, exactly the opposite of segregating transgender people...

And having worked peripherally in A&E, it is not somewhere you want things kicking off.

**Kilkrazy**

Ghazkuul wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
I agree with KK on all points. If you have a history of issues between certain groups or individuals, you should always try to minimise the chance of it happening again in the future. In this case it seems to have been done by fast tracking the treatment of someone in uniform.

Just want to point out that a lot of people are OK with moving the sergeant to "Protect" him from a general populace that apparently is so violent to the armed forces that he may have been assaulted just for wearing his uniform in a hospital.

But a lot of people are also outraged that Transgender people were given their own bathroom to protect them and the public from gender issues.

Kind of a weird situation.

As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

Different people, though.

Number of servicemen killed in UK by deliberate terrorist related attacks in last 10 years = 1. (London.)

Number of servicemen killed in USA by deliberate terrorist related attacks in last 10 years = 18 (Chattanooga + Fort Hood.)