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Also as A side note, where does this belief that everyone in America worships the US Military come from?

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

Occasionally I would get a heart felt, "Thank you" from someone and usually it would be because that person either A. Has someone serving in their family or a close friend or B. Lost a family member or friend to War.

Honestly, most of the hero worship I see is in the form of some random political event or huge event where they briefly have airplanes fly over head or maybe have a bunch of service members hold a GIANT US Flag.

So unless your considering a half arsed random "Thanks for your service" as hero worship I just don't see it.

You literally just made a post where you pointed out that as a (former) military member, you routinely expect discounts not available to the general public at random places totally disconnected from the military (and dismay that even then, you didn't feel like you got the expected level of hero worship) while expressing wonderment that people think that there is a institutionalized fetishism of the military.

I mean, I'd normally say we can only lead a horse to water, but in this case, it seems like you already know where it is, and just don't want to drink. Can't help you with that, bruh. Let us know when you're really thirsty.

Not to mention the Stolen Valor Act (2006).

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also as A side note, where does this belief that everyone in America worships the US Military come from?

Speaking as someone who moved from the UK to the US, the military worship is quite pronounced here. Every other TV ad is something about the military, whether it be joining it, supporting the troops or donating to this or that military-related cause. Practically any public event, military-related or not, will have something about how much we should respect and thank soldiers. There's a social expectation to thank military members for their service any time you see them. It's even enforced in some private-sector jobs I've been in. Military discounts are available just about everywhere you want to shop.VFW halls are prominant and often feature large military hardware like tanks or artillery pieces displayed out front.

Not saying it's bad, just in comparison to other parts of the world the US military is very prominant and commands both respect and attention in everyday US society. I think as outsiders looking in, the US gives the impression of military worship, and it is quite true to a certain extent.

I think this is partly due to the Americans wearing their hearts on their sleeves, while in the UK the rule of "the importance of not being earnest" is paramount.

 Ouze wrote:
You literally just made a post where you pointed out that as a (former) military member, you routinely expect discounts not available to the general public at random places totally disconnected from the military (and dismay that even then, you didn't feel like you got the expected level of hero worship) while expressing wonderment that people think that there is a institutionalized fetishism of the military.

I mean, I'd normally say we can only lead a horse to water, but in this case, it seems like you already know where it is, and just don't want to drink. Can't help you with that, bruh. Let us know when you're really thirsty.

So by that same token we must also hero worship the elderly, you know because they also receive the same 10% discount at most of the same places.

Or god forbid you think about it from an unbiased perspective and realize that companies do that to gain business. Heaven forbid we think about something for 5 seconds without our blinders on.

So because the elderly gain a 10% discount and are treated with respect for being elders we must also hero worship them to so ......wait that doesn't make any sense.

The fact is that most of you who think the military receives "Hero Worship" want it to be so, so you can have something to argue about or feel demeaned by


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex C wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Also as A side note, where does this belief that everyone in America worships the US Military come from?

Speaking as someone who moved from the UK to the US, the military worship is quite pronounced here. Every other TV ad is something about the military, whether it be joining it, supporting the troops or donating to this or that military-related cause. Practically any public event, military-related or not, will have something about how much we should respect and thank soldiers. There's a social expectation to thank military members for their service any time you see them. It's even enforced in some private-sector jobs I've been in. Military discounts are available just about everywhere you want to shop.VFW halls are prominant and often feature large military hardware like tanks or artillery pieces displayed out front.

Not saying it's bad, just in comparison to other parts of the world the US military is very prominant and commands both respect and attention in everyday US society. I think as outsiders looking in, the US gives the impression of military worship, and it is quite true to a certain extent.

1: The only T.V. adds I see featuring the military are either trying to recruit former/active military to join their businesses as customers or Advertising something that directly appeals to the military, like that Bear with a recording in it that military members use so their kids remember what their voices sound like when they are gone for 6months - 18 months.

2: Public events huh? like what? 4th of July? Veterans Day? those public events or are you talking about Football/Hockey games where the military might provide a color guard for the singing of the National Anthem....which has been going on for decades.

3: Unless they are openly wearing a Uniform out in public, or are wearing their Dog tags with a raging high and tight visible to everyone you will never know someones in the military....and in both cases (certain examples are exempt: recruiting, Toy Drives) the guy wearing the uniform/dog tags in public is a douche.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

The fact is that most of you who think the military receives "Hero Worship" want it to be so, so you can have something to argue about or feel demeaned by

Projecting a bit much there, methinks, especially seeing as one could actually make an argument that we DO "worship", or at least show respect that doesn't exist in other parts of society, to old people too.

Perhaps businesses ought to offer 10% discount to eveyone, and we could hero worship them all.

Except Donald Trump of course.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Perhaps businesses ought to offer 10% discount to eveyone, and we could hero worship them all.

Except Donald Trump of course.

I'm on board with this, as long as everyone spends six months every few years deployed to some hellhole (or even worse, the boat) even in peace time, or routinely risks their life doing night traps.

Businesses give discounts to firefighters and cops as well. We as a country tend to say, "Hey, you took a job that involves the risk of death or serious injury to protect the public. We like that. Here's some slightly cheaper toilet paper." And I don't have a problem with that, because we also, as a society, tend to expect them to actually take that risk when we need them to, and tend to backlash pretty hard when they don't.

I have people who tell me that they should be seen before everyone else in line because they are a veteran. While waiting in line with nothing but other veterans. Go figure.

If we give discounts to people who get hurt helping the public, telephone pole operators should get like 30%

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
telephone pole operators

Do you mean service technicians?

Because when I first read your post I got images of dudes sitting at the top of the pole manning switchboards...

 d-usa wrote:
I have people who tell me that they should be seen before everyone else in line because they are a veteran. While waiting in line with nothing but other veterans. Go figure.

I've probably seen a few (UK) veterans in my clinics but don't recall ever hearing one asking for preferential treatment. I've also seen two paralympians (who were really nice ) that were not pushy at all either

I live next to an MOD base and the biggest issue I have is with the WAG's excluding my wife and other non-WAG's from social events in the village - all the active service guys I see are all fine, though again there is no atmosphere of hero worship towards them as far as I can see

Which is very different from my experience of physically being in America, and my impression of it from TV reports, etc...

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Or god forbid you think about it from an unbiased perspective

What exactly is my bias here? You literally pointed out that you don't think that the military gets an extra level respect while complaining that, while you were getting your discount you didn't feel like you got the appropriate level of ego-stroking to which you feel entitled, all in the same post. Not really sure what to say to that.

Lots of people do even more dangerous jobs, and lots of people do jobs that are less dangerous but clearly produce more value to society, but you need more, apparently.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

I've probably seen a few (UK) veterans in my clinics but don't recall ever hearing one asking for preferential treatment.

You will be unlikely to find any like that. British servicemen and veterans seem quite free of any entitlement issues in my experience.

We do get a degree of preferential treatment in healthcare though. You can usually get an appointment with a Doc in the Army's primary care facilities on the same day (or at the very least that week); good luck getting that in the NHS, my wife has to make a telephone appointment before she can make an actual appointment which took 2 weeks last time. We also tend to see military consultants in hospital so we tend to get seen a little earlier than otherwise.

Discount wise we get a few but nothing major. I get 10% off in KFC, yay? The best perk that we get is Tickets for Troops. Discounted (and sometimes free) tickets for events.

 Ouze wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Or god forbid you think about it from an unbiased perspective

What exactly is my bias here? You literally pointed out that you don't think that the military gets an extra level respect while complaining that, while you were getting your discount you didn't feel like you got the appropriate level of ego-stroking to which you feel entitled, all in the same post. Not really sure what to say to that.

Lots of people do even more dangerous jobs, and lots of people do jobs that are less dangerous but clearly produce more value to society, but you need more, apparently.

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.


Also as A Side note to my side note, I noticed that Durcell is running a commercial about their batteries powering those teddy bears that people record messages on and send home when deployed. They had a Marine talking into the bear to send home to his kids.....and upon closer inspection (freeze framed the commercial) My wife and I both noticed that the Male Marine is wearing Female Pregnancy Cammies..... had a good laugh about it.

"Produce More value" thats actually very true, up until the military is needed and people like yourself don't have the testicular fortitude to step forward. but hey whatever floats your boat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

I've probably seen a few (UK) veterans in my clinics but don't recall ever hearing one asking for preferential treatment.

You will be unlikely to find any like that. British servicemen and veterans seem quite free of any entitlement issues in my experience.

We do get a degree of preferential treatment in healthcare though. You can usually get an appointment with a Doc in the Army's primary care facilities on the same day (or at the very least that week); good luck getting that in the NHS, my wife has to make a telephone appointment before she can make an actual appointment which took 2 weeks last time. We also tend to see military consultants in hospital so we tend to get seen a little earlier than otherwise.

Discount wise we get a few but nothing major. I get 10% off in KFC, yay? The best perk that we get is Tickets for Troops. Discounted (and sometimes free) tickets for events.

Yup, the 10% is fairly rare, but the tickets that some teams/events offer is very nice. I was able to take my kids to see Disney on Ice because the USO had a bunch of free tickets to give out.

Well, we've got a number of people mentioning the existence of the hero worship, not just Ouze, plus the hard evidence of the Stolen Valor Act (2006).
?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Well, we've got a number of people mentioning the existence of the hero worship, not just Ouze, plus the hard evidence of the Stolen Valor Act (2006).
?

Clearly you are biased because you are too much of a coward to serve.

Well, that, or you DID serve and just don't feel the need to constantly tell everyone to try and be the coolest kid on an Internet forum for toys.

One or the other though!

I do see a lot of advertisements for the Wounded Warrior Program. A lot of celebrities play a role in that.
I do see a lot of discounts for active duty military and retiree's from a assortment of merchandise chains, car dealerships, and other assorted stores.

I do see "Approval for E1-E4 made Easy" in some signs.

Active duty military gets paid 1st and the 15th of every month. Also we can do allotments straight out of the paycheck to whoever the amount needs to go. Business knows that and prey on that.

Also those individual who choose to join the military (this time frame, non Draft but all volunteer) are doing something that the vast majority would not consider doing. Its a unique experience and good way to start off an adult life further down the road.

I do see the Stolen Valor Act aimed at those who take advantage of the system to gain something they are not suppose to who never wore the uniform

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
You will be unlikely to find any like that. British servicemen and veterans seem quite free of any entitlement issues in my experience.

The only exception to that is in prosthetics where the military rehab centres have massive budgets for treatment and prosthetics, while most of the kit that is issued like sweets to vets is not even in the cards on the NHS; bit of a culture shock more than anything when they are discharged.

 Jihadin wrote:
I do see "Approval for E1-E4 made Easy" in some signs.

Active duty military gets paid 1st and the 15th of every month. Also we can do allotments straight out of the paycheck to whoever the amount needs to go. Business knows that and prey on that.

I agree. When I was at Tinker, I saw a lot of really, really shady businesses right near the base that were essentially preying on young military guys.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

You realize your making my point for me right?

I dont care about the "thank you for your service" nor do I feel entitled to it. I was merely pointing out that the "Thank you for your service" is comparable to the "whats up" or "How are you today". Its routine its just part of daily conversation it holds no meaning, So how is that considered hero worship? Businesses prey off the military as has been shown by others, it has nothing to do with "Hero Worship" and more to do with "Screwing the average junior enlistee out of his paycheck".

Nowhere have I said "I demand to be treated as a hero" and that is the problem. I haven't said anything like that and you guys jump all over me saying things like "but that isn't good enough for you" or what ouze said about having to be the coolest internet kid. It is just ridiculous. So because I disagree with you lot saying there is a culture of Hero worship in the US you guys treat me as if I am demanding more

 SilverMK2 wrote:

The only exception to that is in prosthetics where the military rehab centres have massive budgets for treatment and prosthetics, while most of the kit that is issued like sweets to vets is not even in the cards on the NHS; bit of a culture shock more than anything when they are discharged.

That's because lots of money gets thrown at injured servicemen, some of it from charities. I have been injured myself (nothing overly exciting) and I know that the armed forces have an exceptional physical rehabilitation program. I spent 2 years in rehab with about a year of 2-3 physio/trainer sessions a week and a month at a dedicated rehab facility. I very much doubt I would have gotten that on the NHS, they just have have the funding for that level of care.

There is a sense of entitlement in terms of treatment for injuries sustained whilst on duty, which is earned to be honest, but I haven't seen any sense of entitlement simply for being in the military.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

The only exception to that is in prosthetics where the military rehab centres have massive budgets for treatment and prosthetics, while most of the kit that is issued like sweets to vets is not even in the cards on the NHS; bit of a culture shock more than anything when they are discharged.

That's because lots of money gets thrown at injured servicemen, some of it from charities. I have been injured myself (nothing overly exciting) and I know that the armed forces have an exceptional physical rehabilitation program. I spent 2 years in rehab with about a year of 2-3 physio/trainer sessions a week and a month at a dedicated rehab facility. I very much doubt I would have gotten that on the NHS, they just have have the funding for that level of care.

There is a sense of entitlement in terms of treatment for injuries sustained whilst on duty, which is earned to be honest, but I haven't seen any sense of entitlement simply for being in the military.

I've socialised with a number of various military men in relatively congenial circumstances (my supervisor/some of my academic resources are based at the Joint Services Staff and Command College, and we get a lot of ranking guests to King's in London) and I've never encountered any form of entitlement from any of them. The mentality I've always encountered is that regard themselves as professionals, in the same way a barrister or a doctor does, but like them, they expect no respect/honours beyond that.

I don't tend to cross paths with the rank and file much, so I suppose the mentality could be different there, but I'd be surprised.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
As a side note, I haven't been to England so is the general public that violent towards the military?

Ordinarily, no. There's generally a good relationship, especially in villages around bases.

There are times and days when staff may shuffle anyone out of the ordinary out of the waiting area, however, due to the nature of people coming in. Summer weekends, soccer match days, and late nights. i.e any time you're going to have larger amount of drunks or boisterous people coming in.

I'm not excusing what happened, but I have known folk, either vulnerable or noticeable be moved during those times.

Hell, one time I was in A&E at 3am on a weekend after the pubs let out, and they sat me and a couple of girls around the corner from the general intake in the children's library.

edit: my phrasing is fethed up as much as my brain right now; the general intake was not in the children's library.

The fact that a certain someone started an "a veteran got gak on by an airline" thread, which implies that it is worse than any of the other random people that get gak on by airlines on a daily basis despite the questionable circumstances of that particular event to begin with, seems like a good example of the hero worship that is present and expected.

Add that to the frequent "veteran doesn't want to follow HOA rules therefore HOAs hate veterans" stories, the "veteran broke the law, but Obama won't force foreign country to ignore the crime therefore he hates veterans" stories, as well as the "I served, therefore I'm better than you" that is evident even in this thread, and you can see just how prevalent it is.

To say that it doesn't exist is pretty impressive, especially considering how many folks actually invoke it frequently.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

Nothing in Ghazkuul's post indicated at any point that he thought he was entitled to something. It's simply a description of the situation. He doesn't seem to be complaining, but rather suggesting that the reality is that small discounts and lip service without much thought don't really qualify as hero worship.

D-USA you referring to the Vet PTSD Service dog that the aircrew called him liar in front of everybody (something of that nature)?

Anyway. There are quite a few vets who rather not let people know certain time frames of their service. Or pretty much take advantage of offers afforded by businesses. I rather be view as the average guy who served.

I do not want to "talk about it"
I will look at you in a way that pretty much tells you are stupid for asking me "Did you kill anyone?"
My reply will be "Hot, food sucked, and no sleep" when asked what it is like over there
My opinion of OIF/OEF which I say "Highlight of my career leading troops into/during combat"
Asked "What do you think on going over?" is "Just another free trip to Paradise"

Also...anyone offers me poptart, nature bar, red apple, etc etc I will break there fingers off at the neck.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I Know the Marines are different from almost every other branch because we don't allow most uniforms to be worn off base but even then when I would show my military ID to get my 10% off at the movie theater or some other place I would maybe (At best) get a Pavlovian "thanks for your service" from some random person who didn't even bother looking up from their cellphone or computer screen.

So because I pointed out that people would give me an automatic response when I showed my military ID I am not getting the ego stroking I need? I think you just proved your personal bias admirably. The point I was making is that there ISN'T this level of hero worship that you all think exists. the "Thank you for your Service" comments are about as perfunctory as "how are you" from a bank teller or waiter. They are said because they feel like they are supposed to be said but they care as little as physically possible.

That you feel owed anything more than an "automatic" response is part of the problem. Getting inattentive, impersonal service is a sad fact of life for just about everyone in our culture. This sort of service is especially problematic in low-paying retail positions, and workers of those positions are likely the folks doling out the military discounts and "thank you for your service" remarks. And we all get those sort of responses. Civilians may not get "thank you for your service" but we hear empty platitudes all the time. We know the old person at Walmart isn't actually excited to see us as we walk in, or we know when a cashier somewhere says "have a nice day" he doesn't really give two gaks about us or our day. That is the world we live in. Its fake and polite.

But that thank you isn't good enough for you because it is wooden and "Pavlovian" and automatic. Just like everyone else's wooden and automatic exchanges, but yours should be more so it seems. Because you served in the military. It is as if you are seeking reverence and prestige from the masses for your service.

Dang, what would that be called?

You realize your making my point for me right?

I dont care about the "thank you for your service" nor do I feel entitled to it. I was merely pointing out that the "Thank you for your service" is comparable to the "whats up" or "How are you today". Its routine its just part of daily conversation it holds no meaning, So how is that considered hero worship? Businesses prey off the military as has been shown by others, it has nothing to do with "Hero Worship" and more to do with "Screwing the average junior enlistee out of his paycheck".

Nowhere have I said "I demand to be treated as a hero" and that is the problem. I haven't said anything like that and you guys jump all over me saying things like "but that isn't good enough for you" or what ouze said about having to be the coolest internet kid. It is just ridiculous. So because I disagree with you lot saying there is a culture of Hero worship in the US you guys treat me as if I am demanding more

If the enlisted are stupid ebough to spend there money there, letem