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Defensive fire from vehicles. Seriously, it is the 41M and we have no idea how to fire heavy bolters or stubbers at the guys running right at the tank. This is the reason why tanks have machine guns on top of them.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Furious Charge, muh berzerkers are sad.

And the loss of infiltrate on chosen, I enjoyed nothing more than ruining any tank near a board edges day with melta chosen. Then makinh them harder to shift thanks to MoN.

I always enjoyed the 5 Flamer outflanking MoK ones. Ruined so much infantry with them.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Furious Charge, muh berzerkers are sad.

And the loss of infiltrate on chosen, I enjoyed nothing more than ruining any tank near a board edges day with melta chosen. Then makinh them harder to shift thanks to MoN.

I always enjoyed the 5 Flamer outflanking MoK ones. Ruined so much infantry with them.

Can't have CSM turning up out of nowhere, it ruins them lining up to run into loyalist guns en masse like good bad guys

Shadow in the warp. In 5th edition, the psykers had to take the test on 3 dice, and you would almost always fail (at least, with Tigurius). Now it's just a -3 penalty to leadership if they have the Psyker, Psyker pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers rules.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
He's gotta roll to get Biomancy, and I doubt the robots are either as scary as the lord or as easy to hide from Isntant Death Vanquisher shells.

Bikes/horses/etc shouldn't give +1T to begin with.

And if he hides in a unit then majority Toughness makes him T6 or less anyway, so...

Hey, we agree on something, is it the end of the world

I think it's fair to assume that the bikes make you resistant to enemy fire. From the front, pretty much only your head is exposed, and the bike is a heavily armored piece of kit.

I also think it's fair to assume that said resistance is too small to justify a +1 T increase in a D6 system.

Getting rid of armor modifiers and replacing them with the AP system. What a crappy non-accurate system.

Getting rid of point values made me sad.

Oh wait, what year is this? Great scott! Back to the Delorean! See you all in a year!

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Shadow in the warp. In 5th edition, the psykers had to take the test on 3 dice, and you would almost always fail (at least, with Tigurius). Now it's just a -3 penalty to leadership if they have the Psyker, Psyker pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers rules.

What is a leadership penalty supposed to do when they're casting powers? That has a whole other psyker test.

Isn't psyker pilot only for fearless vehicles?

I'm so confused.

 the Signless wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Shadow in the warp. In 5th edition, the psykers had to take the test on 3 dice, and you would almost always fail (at least, with Tigurius). Now it's just a -3 penalty to leadership if they have the Psyker, Psyker pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers rules.

What is a leadership penalty supposed to do when they're casting powers? That has a whole other psyker test.

Isn't psyker pilot only for fearless vehicles?

I'm so confused.

Exactly. It's absolutely worthless. Unless the psyker is within 12" of a synapse creature (and why isn't shadow in the warp the same range as synapse?), perils, and rolls a certain result, THEN it can work.

Psychic tests are mine. Mixed with how flyrants cannot switch to gliding and assault. It completely removed the melee build from the scene and left us with the hated dakka flyrant.

In addition to the loss of the dakka banner and the pfg for dark angels, the change to the RWGL. The grenade launcher's old rad would cause -1 toughness, which would put meq into ID range of their plasma talons. More specifically, it was great for reducing the necrons reanimation by 1. It also made it so you needed 2s to wound in the ensuing assault against anything that was t4 before you shot it.

Now it is just a str 3 blast that causes 2 wounds on a 6 to wound. Effectively guts a lot of the usefulness out of the RWGL

Shuriken Catapult +1 to hit 24" range -2 Save Mod Sustained Fire 1

to
Shuriken Catapult 12" range

 Glitcha wrote:
Defensive fire from vehicles. Seriously, it is the 41M and we have no idea how to fire heavy bolters or stubbers at the guys running right at the tank. This is the reason why tanks have machine guns on top of them.

This so damn much. I have those hull mounted HB's for a reason OTHER than looking pretty you know.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
When they nerfed Entropic Strike so it didn't work on Super-Heavies.

Actually, upon further consideration, I retract this statement.

The rule that made me saddest was when they got rid of We'll Be Back and replaced it with Resurrection Protocols.

Sure, RP is more powerful, but WBB was a lot more flavourful and fun to play, rather than just being an extra die.

I hated seeing seeker missiles changed for the Tau. It used to not force the vehicle that it launches from to fire the rest of its weapons at that target as well.

Wasn't the most useful rule, or the one that hurt orks the most, but I really, really hated to see Mobbing Up go away. I LOVED it that the orks ran towards MORE ORKS. If you didn't run them down or pick them off piecemeal, then you sometimes ended up with one huge blob of orks with about 20 special weapons. It was both useful, and so, so characterful and funny. Sigh.

I also really hated losing Looters and Looted Wagons that were actually USING looted weapons or vehicles from another army. Such win. Such cool conversions. Double sigh.

Lumbering Behemoth for Imperial Guard. It's removal made my Leman Russ dang near unusable thanks to the way Ordinance works now.

Outflank losing on-turn assault

I miss getting charge bonuses against swept And They Shall Know No Fear units.

It makes no sense to me that you can beat them off some ground, pursue them down as they attempt a fighting retreat, but there is no advantage to doing so compared to them passing their morale check and not retreating to begin with.

Edit: Oh and not being able to use special weapons, such as melta, in combat against vehicles. IMHO these weapons should be able to make unwieldy, grenade style attacks... Not that Vehicles need nerfing any further! Perhaps vehicles could be allowed to overwatch with flame template weapons?

nareik wrote:
I miss getting charge bonuses against swept And They Shall Know No Fear units.

It makes no sense to me that you can beat them off some ground, pursue them down as they attempt a fighting retreat, but there is no advantage to doing so compared to them passing their morale check and not retreating to begin with.

I think those penalties were removed because they mainly affected Fearless units.

There was a rather well-known occurrence, whereby Nids would end up with a MC and a lot of gaunts in the same combat. Due to gaunt losses, they'd lose combat, and then the wounds from Fearless would cause the MC to explode.

So Daemonic Instability now?

Here's another one I thought off, Night Fighting and by extension, Night Shields.

Before it was tactical thinking to make sure you were out of range, now it's all 'Everybody gets Stealth!! Oh, are units not dying fast enough? Only certain armies get Ignore Cover!!!'

5th ed to 6th ed was bad, then to 7th ed to make it worse.

THE ENTIRE CHAOS SPACE MARINE CODEX

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shuriken Catapult +1 to hit 24" range -2 Save Mod Sustained Fire 1

to
Shuriken Catapult 12" range

I try to not think about a lot of the changes from 2nd to 3rd, but will agree that this was one of the worst offenders.

“Hey, we are a ultra high-tech dying race, let’s give our militia SMGs and shove them into the meat grinder of war” Particularly since they spent a lot of time as ablative wounds for the weapon platforms. Assault was also a lot more viable back then, so 12” was not a place you really wanted to be.

 vipoid wrote:

nareik wrote:
I miss getting charge bonuses against swept And They Shall Know No Fear units.

It makes no sense to me that you can beat them off some ground, pursue them down as they attempt a fighting retreat, but there is no advantage to doing so compared to them passing their morale check and not retreating to begin with.

I think those penalties were removed because they mainly affected Fearless units.

There was a rather well-known occurrence, whereby Nids would end up with a MC and a lot of gaunts in the same combat. Due to gaunt losses, they'd lose combat, and then the wounds from Fearless would cause the MC to explode.

I'm not talking about fearless units taking wounds when losing combat. Given the example you have used I can see why that changed.

I'm talking about space marines losing combat, failing their morale check then rolling lower for their initiative test than the opponent. In a previous edition (third?) the opponent would count as having charged in the next assault phase.

nareik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

nareik wrote:
I miss getting charge bonuses against swept And They Shall Know No Fear units.

It makes no sense to me that you can beat them off some ground, pursue them down as they attempt a fighting retreat, but there is no advantage to doing so compared to them passing their morale check and not retreating to begin with.

I think those penalties were removed because they mainly affected Fearless units.

There was a rather well-known occurrence, whereby Nids would end up with a MC and a lot of gaunts in the same combat. Due to gaunt losses, they'd lose combat, and then the wounds from Fearless would cause the MC to explode.

I'm not talking about fearless units taking wounds when losing combat. Given the example you have used I can see why that changed.

I'm talking about space marines losing combat, failing their morale check then rolling lower for their initiative test than the opponent. In a previous edition (third?) the opponent would count as having charged in the next assault phase.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were talking about the 5th edition rules. SMs that fled and got caught would count as Fearless, and suffer wounds as Fearless models.

Ah, well the 5th edition method kind of makes sense, but I think the 3rd ed solution of the winners regaining the vigour of a fresh assault was the best solution.

I bet it got removed due to arguments over whether or not hatred would count :p

Yeah, that does sound like a logical rule. At the very least, it does seem a bit silly that they can run but suffer no penalty if caught.

7th doesn't have any logic, because all the smart people who could think with logic left GW years ago...

Miss darn Andy Chambers and Pete Haines...

Not being able to assault from out flanking or from being hidden in terrain, makes no sense to me.
Scout movers and infiltrators not being able to assault on turn one i believe is also cruddy.
From deepstrike? i think more things should be able to, but i can kinda see how some/most units maybe kinda sorta could justify not assaulting out of deepstrike, but still, a lot more things should be able to.

Also not so much rule change but losses i guess. negative to Ld with markerlights, and more importantly, the +1BS wargear choice they used to have. BS4 stealth suits were no joke lol

Was looking through the old 2nd ed ork codex for something some time ago and discovered that the original meganobz had something akin to FNP. They quickly lost it, but I think having FNP built into meganobz would make them almost worth buying now.