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 Sigvatr wrote:
It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

Thank you, the voice of reason in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future. Mind answering this?

http://goo.gl/6MiUOT

Ya the newcrons killed necrons. I was about to start them the read the fluff.

King Po woke up and wanted a new body and was like hey guys everyone in the new advanced tech the row boat ship and march to war...... Awesom.

New tech the row boat, http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Ghost-Ark
The spider http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Triarch-Stalker
The holely gak we are tipping and have a giant ball in my face. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Tomb-Blades

Nothing quite like long dead robots taking a emo fit because they fell asleep for a couple million years to find out they have pests. Then get upset with other emo robots......

TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

 Sigvatr wrote:
TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

I love the Heresy series, and the Cain novels are great, but I see your point. The account of a lone survivor on a Necron Tomb world would be a fantastic story. Instead, people want Necron lords to show emotion and become cross-dressers

 Sigvatr wrote:
TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

Yeah, there were some good stories in the 3rd ed book, and none in the 5th ed book.
That story about the techpriest tearing out his implants is still freaky.

Lego_las181 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

A lot of people think otherwise
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436499.page

If you went around asking everyone in China how long the Emperor's nose was, and took the average of all the responses - that doesn't mean you know how long the Emperor's nose was.

Sigvatr wrote:It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Isn't their an IA book that has Necrons that act exactly like the old ones.

I sorta miss the mystery and pure unknowability of the old ones.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Isn't their an IA book that has Necrons that act exactly like the old ones.

Do you know which one it is? I would love to look into that

HoundsofDemos wrote:

I sorta miss the mystery and pure unknowability of the old ones.

My thoughts exactly

IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

I prefer the current lore to the old lore. The new lore doesn't actually retcon much so if you prefer the old stuff there's nothing stopping you having your Necrons exactly how they used to be.

The Maynarkh aren't really like the oldcrons at all.

They've all got the Flayer Virus.

Ah, I've not read it myself. I've just heard it said that the Crons in IA12 are like the old Necrons.

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

necronlad42 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

2012/2013 ish. Apparantly they aren't much like the Oldcrons, although I've not read it. I've heard the story is very good though and it sounds really cool. I just haven't got round to getting it at all.

necronlad42 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

According to Wikipedia it came out in 2013.

 Ghaz wrote:
According to Wikipedia it came out in 2013.

 ImAGeek wrote:

2012/2013 ish. Apparantly they aren't much like the Oldcrons, although I've not read it. I've heard the story is very good though and it sounds really cool. I just haven't got round to getting it at all.

Thanks guys, ill be sure to check it out anyways


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lego_las181 wrote:
Necron models have become so ornamental that they are no longer the relentless killing machines they once were.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-necrons

I definitely agree, especially the lords, IMO all this stuff is extra unnecessary detail that detracts from the menacing feel necron models used to have.
Think about it - imagine you are cornered by a massive tough guy in a street, and then a different day the same thing happens but he is covered in makeup and wearing a stupid hat - when would you feel more threatened?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Lego_las181 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

A lot of people think otherwise
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436499.page

If you went around asking everyone in China how long the Emperor's nose was, and took the average of all the responses - that doesn't mean you know how long the Emperor's nose was.

Sigvatr wrote:It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

While they both still wear the skin/hides of their prey, Flayed Ones now are very different in fluff from the Flayed Ones of the past (not to mention the models were WAY smexier, I wear glasses but if you think the current flayed ones look better than the old, you have worse eyes than me and need to get your eyes checked asap). There is practically no way current Flayed Ones would pull the nightmarish stunts from Ben Counter's Hellforged (hate on Ben Counter all you want, his depiction of Oldcrons was fairly well done).

Wraiths are vastly different, changing from Necrontyr criminals having their minds programmed into a vicious, efficient murder machines of nightmares to merely multipurpose machines that are still vicious, efficient murder machines but lost most of the nightmarish aspect (unless you are scared of bugs)

Nothing to indicate that the C'tan and/or Necrons are behind the Pariah Gene anymore, and nothing substantial fluffwise to even support that the Pariah Gene is C'tan and/or Necron in origin

C'tan being shattered changes a great many of their fates of being cannibalized or black hole'd out of existence. (And raises the question of If the Outsider has been shattered, wtf is in the Dyson Sphere (actually a Dyson Shell but semantics), why are the Nids detouring around it, and what did Adept Corteswain see inside the Dyson sphere to cause him to rip his implants out? Also, what about the Eldar prophecy regarding the Outsider's return?) I know you said aside from the C'tan being shattered but I am using this point to show that the lore changes had effects upon the lores of other races.

...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

I say keep the new necron models, but bring back the old fluff. Or dont t keep the models but makee a larger section than the original 5 or 6

123ply wrote:
I say keep the new necron models EXCEPT THE FLAYED ONES but bring back the old fluff. Or dont t keep the models but makee a larger section than the original 5 or 6

Fixed that for ya

I will completely agree the new Flayed One models are garbage. They need a complete makeover.

oz of the north wrote:
They may have more personality, but I think the mythos around the C'Tans was more interesting, than now just being shards that are used when the need arises.

On the contrary, I find the idea of them rising up and shattering their own gods to be quite interesting.

 King Pariah wrote:

While they both still wear the skin/hides of their prey, Flayed Ones now are very different in fluff from the Flayed Ones of the past (not to mention the models were WAY smexier, I wear glasses but if you think the current flayed ones look better than the old, you have worse eyes than me and need to get your eyes checked asap). There is practically no way current Flayed Ones would pull the nightmarish stunts from Ben Counter's Hellforged (hate on Ben Counter all you want, his depiction of Oldcrons was fairly well done).

What, you don't like the FO prancing round in their pretty ribbons?

More seriously, we weren't talking about the models - fluff wise, Flayed Ones just have more detail, and none of it contradicts what the original codex said, which was just that they were mad and driven to try and reclaim their flesh of old by wearing the skins of their victims. Just because we know why they're mad now, and the new models suck, doesn't mean that the old fluff has been contradicted. Sorry.

Wraiths are vastly different, changing from Necrontyr criminals having their minds programmed into a vicious, efficient murder machines of nightmares to merely multipurpose machines that are still vicious, efficient murder machines but lost most of the nightmarish aspect (unless you are scared of bugs)

OK, I'd forgotten about Wraiths - but where in the old fluff did it state that Wraiths were Necron Criminals? That's extra fluff you've pulled from somewhere, probably the internet or your own head. Old wraiths were just particularly horrifying monsters that phased in and out of reality and fought with lots of sharp things. Again, the model changed and we have more details - but the only thing that directly contradicts the old fluff is that Wraiths no longer WBB. Wraiths are still nightmarish monsters that come through the walls.

In fact, even the old Wraiths matched with the current fluff in several sources - the Cain novels, for example, feature them as the first guardians to awake in several tombs, which only makes sense if they're guardian robots (or at least multi-purpose janitor-bots with a high priority defence protocol), because waking actual Necrons up takes longer.

Nothing to indicate that the C'tan and/or Necrons are behind the Pariah Gene anymore, and nothing substantial fluffwise to even support that the Pariah Gene is C'tan and/or Necron in origin

Nothing to deny it though, either, which means that the old sources are still intact and viable. Until a source outright states that the Pariah gene is not Necron in origin, there's no reason to assume that detail has been retconned out.

C'tan being shattered changes a great many of their fates of being cannibalized or black hole'd out of existence. (And raises the question of If the Outsider has been shattered, wtf is in the Dyson Sphere (actually a Dyson Shell but semantics), why are the Nids detouring around it, and what did Adept Corteswain see inside the Dyson sphere to cause him to rip his implants out? Also, what about the Eldar prophecy regarding the Outsider's return?) I know you said aside from the C'tan being shattered but I am using this point to show that the lore changes had effects upon the lores of other races.

Just because the majority of the C'tan are shattered doesn't mean they all are. Flayer'tan wasn't shattered - it's entirely possible that the Outsider is similarly still sitting pretty in his Dyson Sphere.

Oh, and before you start asking for 'burden of proof' regarding my claims? Do you like complaining so much that you want none of my counterpoints to be true? Because there's no proof I'm wrong, either.

...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

Please, sir, can I have some more?

Wasn't the Flayer god the one that got destroyed, and in his death throes cursed the Necron race with the Flayer virus?

GW released in a white dwarf shortly after ward's codex dropped a statement which made abundantly clear that all C'tan were shattered. The exception was the Flayed C'tan being the only one that was shattered so hard that he was ethereal dust in the wind.

90% certain the criminal statement about Wraiths was from the codex or some old literature BL doesn't print anymore.

The Flayer Virus does contradict the old flayed ones. They're not trying to reclaim old flesh anymore, they're trying to appease a hunger that doesn't exist anywhere but in the 0's and 1's that make up the programming that contains what little remains of their conscious. And lets not forget that after they've had their "hunts" for flesh, they attempt to gobble it all up and when all the scraps are gone, they head out (and that it is practically impossible to direct flayed ones on the battlefields except in pointing them in the general direction of fleshy targets. Instead of the Old flayed ones who don't squabble over consuming flesh, more likely to hang out within the corpse or skin of a victim. And can be used in battles in a covert manner (once again, Ben Counter's Hellforged in which multiple flayed ones pose as gravely injured soldiers that are taken back to field hospitals only to be "dead" on arrival). Once they had the numbers, and the battle resumed a fevered pitch, they exit the makeshift morgue and wreak havoc in the backfield by hunting down a few key commanding elements with the planet's or system's governor being the primary target.

Don't know about you, but the flayed ones of old and the ones now are vastly different.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Keeping it short because I know you're not interested in an honest answer:

a) C'tan are not C'tan. The actual C'Tan are the most powerful (corporeal) beings in the universe, the ones in the current codex are powerful beings on the level of demons. Shattering them makes no sense as the very same people failed to win /any/ war with the machinery they had before and are now supposed to defeat actual gods. That can manipulate the universe and time itself. The new C'tan are still called C'tan, but are not C'tan as presented in the TruCron fluff.

b) FO are not FO. Same name, different unit.

c) Necrons are not Necrons. Necrons are soulless automatons, it literally says that their souls are gone. Newcrons suddenly have their souls intact.

d) Newcron motivation makes no sense whatsoever. Their previous "life" was all they knew about life, i.e. dying at young age and suffering pain for all of it. Why would they even /want/ to get back to a human form? This is one of the worst plot points in the entire, idiotic fluff. It was written in to satisfy people who are...easily satisfied because they assume that everyone wants to be human. The Necrontyr don't want a better life. They want to absolutely destroy every other life in the universe. That is their goal, full stop. That's the reason why they trusted The Deceiver and were betrayed, effectively extincting themselves. That is what still drives them - the hate for all life.

e) Wraiths suddenly went from Necron killer machines to Canoptek crap.

f) The Necrons have one fatal weakness, The Warp, and suddenly, everyone thought that dropping the thought of developing effective counter-mechanisms such as The Pariah, which were /the/ missing link in the Necron arsenal, was a good idea. Duh?

g) Suddenly, it's possible to gather Necron parts. Ye know, parts that immediately disappear upon destruction of the parent unit.

The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

 King Pariah wrote:


...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

That'll do, loved every word of that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:


The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the I C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

Thank you, you understand.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

"And Matt Ward" hahahahaha

In case anyone is interested in the poll results so far
48 Votes in total

'What necron fluff is better, 3rd edition or 7th edition?'
3rd Edition - 30 votes (62.5%)
7th edition - 18 votes (37.5%)

You can still vote here : http://goo.gl/6MiUOT

Not really surprising since in a thread about bringing back the old Necrons, a majority of people posting in and viewing it would prefer 3rd.

If said poll was posted in a thread about the Newcron fluff or similar, the results would be biased towards 7th edition for similar reason, the majority of viewers and posters in the thread would like the Newcron fluff.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Keeping it short because I know you're not interested in an honest answer:

a) C'tan are not C'tan. The actual C'Tan are the most powerful (corporeal) beings in the universe, the ones in the current codex are powerful beings on the level of demons. Shattering them makes no sense as the very same people failed to win /any/ war with the machinery they had before and are now supposed to defeat actual gods. That can manipulate the universe and time itself. The new C'tan are still called C'tan, but are not C'tan as presented in the TruCron fluff.

b) FO are not FO. Same name, different unit.

c) Necrons are not Necrons. Necrons are soulless automatons, it literally says that their souls are gone. Newcrons suddenly have their souls intact.

d) Newcron motivation makes no sense whatsoever. Their previous "life" was all they knew about life, i.e. dying at young age and suffering pain for all of it. Why would they even /want/ to get back to a human form? This is one of the worst plot points in the entire, idiotic fluff. It was written in to satisfy people who are...easily satisfied because they assume that everyone wants to be human. The Necrontyr don't want a better life. They want to absolutely destroy every other life in the universe. That is their goal, full stop. That's the reason why they trusted The Deceiver and were betrayed, effectively extincting themselves. That is what still drives them - the hate for all life.

e) Wraiths suddenly went from Necron killer machines to Canoptek crap.

f) The Necrons have one fatal weakness, The Warp, and suddenly, everyone thought that dropping the thought of developing effective counter-mechanisms such as The Pariah, which were /the/ missing link in the Necron arsenal, was a good idea. Duh?

g) Suddenly, it's possible to gather Necron parts. Ye know, parts that immediately disappear upon destruction of the parent unit.

The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

Some actual content in your next overly sarcastic post would be nice, rather than just repeating "I'm right 'cause I'm right". Ne?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 King Pariah wrote:
GW released in a white dwarf shortly after ward's codex dropped a statement which made abundantly clear that all C'tan were shattered. The exception was the Flayed C'tan being the only one that was shattered so hard that he was ethereal dust in the wind.

90% certain the criminal statement about Wraiths was from the codex or some old literature BL doesn't print anymore.

Wasn't in the codex, got that in front of me. There wasn't any Necron BL literature from that era - the closest was their appearance in the Cain books, which I mentioned.

The Flayer Virus does contradict the old flayed ones. They're not trying to reclaim old flesh anymore, they're trying to appease a hunger that doesn't exist anywhere but in the 0's and 1's that make up the programming that contains what little remains of their conscious. And lets not forget that after they've had their "hunts" for flesh, they attempt to gobble it all up and when all the scraps are gone, they head out (and that it is practically impossible to direct flayed ones on the battlefields except in pointing them in the general direction of fleshy targets. Instead of the Old flayed ones who don't squabble over consuming flesh, more likely to hang out within the corpse or skin of a victim. And can be used in battles in a covert manner (once again, Ben Counter's Hellforged in which multiple flayed ones pose as gravely injured soldiers that are taken back to field hospitals only to be "dead" on arrival). Once they had the numbers, and the battle resumed a fevered pitch, they exit the makeshift morgue and wreak havoc in the backfield by hunting down a few key commanding elements with the planet's or system's governor being the primary target.

Don't know about you, but the flayed ones of old and the ones now are vastly different.

That's not the Flayed Ones that appear in either the Shield of Baal stuff or the Fall of Orpheus book - both of which far more resemble the Flayed Ones as described in the 3rd edition book.

I may need to re-read the 5e book, but that's gone now anyway in face of the newer stuff.

I see some good points around, but dang there's a lot of "nostalgia goggles / never actually reading newcron fluff" in here

Ugh NO THANKS.

are there seriously people who believe the zero character necrons were better? Just play nids or even cybernetica.

Is there a place that I can thumbs down this petition to show games workshop that there are players that think they did the right thing?

I would seriously rage if they stripped all the character out of necrons and went back to warriors destroyers and the worst model of all time, the monolith.