Great WAAAAGH!-Band tactics

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**General_K**

I can see that having Ghaz becomes rather necessary if Mob Rule gets a +2 to its result (thereby making a D6 result of 1 and auto-passing impossible). I still say that I don't actually fail that many morale tests at Ld7 (since the only time there are modifiers is in combat, and I'm generally not losing combat that badly). But even with guaranteeing the other two results on Mob Rule, taking D6 Str4 hits....you'd get an average of 2-3 hits....T4 means you'd get about 1-2 wounds...I always take heavy armour so you're saving half those...I don't see what the issue is - Mob Rule has yet to cost me in any significant way in my last 10 games.

@BAN - that list looks fairly decent! The Lootas might be a little vulnerable though.

**XC18**

Mr.T wrote:
Ok.
SO can someone paste screen from Waagh band? Because i dont belive they do so stupid "mistake"

Here is the rule in the Waaagh! band formation page.

Spoiler:

**Frozocrone**

Wait that's it? That's the only rule?
Uhhh ok...

**XC18**

ops, with the correct link now.

Anyway, that was to point out that the re-roll restricted on Ork or Ghaz warlord trait table is only if the Waaagh-band formation is primary detachment.

But that's not the case if you take the "Great waaagh!-band detachment" ( the Ghazcurion) . Here you can reroll on any warlord trait table.

**Vankraken**

The Ghazzcurion is basically the same rules. That is the laziest rule writing I have ever seen. Its almost as bad as the Looted Wagon rules having a unit composition of 1 Gorkanaut.

**tetrisphreak**

If anyone were to use the Waaagh-band formation there's no reason NOT to do it in the style of the decurion, other than to maybe avoid the Boss iz watchin and Biggest an da best rules. The ork decurion has a better endless waaagh rule and has no range restriction on getting HoW from 'ere we go units.

Ugh. I just feel let down. This release could have been so much better for the orks.

**Blub**

XC18 wrote:
Blub wrote:
Sorry mate. WAAAGH Band only allows you to reroll traits from the codex or from W!G.

Only if the Waaagh!-Band Formation is Primary Detachment.
Which is not the case : here it is the "Great Waaagh!-band" which is the primary detachment, while the "Waaagh!-band" formation is just a Core choice.

You are right sir. "Da Big Boss" lets you reroll the traits and you can choose from BRB, codex or W!G.

**Rismonite**

Turn one fearless is nice, also a 2++ protecting said fearless is nice, also 2+ DLS MA protecting said 2++ protecting fearless is nice. Trying to transport it is tough. Running then assaulting in mega armor is nice.

If can't get excited enough to dust off Ghazzy and the ten IC's you need to do it for a few ganes then maybe orkz aren't for ya.

**Kap'n Krump**

I'm honestly interested in trying a goff killmob + council of the waaagh.

However, I agree with many of the points that's been brought up - the Decurion simply requires too much initial investment, either in boyz or weak walkers, or both. There's no flexibility, as in the necron one, for example. I'm not sure how it stacks up to things like the tau and IG ones.

And, honestly, without ghaz giving the entire endless fearless, the entire list becomes garbage due to +2 to mob rule. And if ghaz ever dies, the army will fall apart faster than a nid one without synapse.

It's not the best thing EVAR, but it's a new way to play, and that's something at least. More than we had a week ago, I guess.

It doesn't fix anything, doesn't make orks good, and choices are too restrictive and bloated, but eh. Could be fun to try out.

**RFHolloway**

In case no one has spotted it the rules are different for the Orcurion.

For the formation you get hammer of wrath if you roll over a 10 on the charge distance and have more than 10 models when you start.

For the Orcurian you get hammer of wrath on a charge if you have more than 10 models when you start but IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU ROLL.

ok its not free models, its not a feel no pain, but it is better than the pure formation.

**Frozocrone**

True, the Orcurion is more reliable in getting HoW and Waaagh!ing but you also suffer the effect of Da Boss is Watchin' and challenge with the Warlord.

Quite the trade off.

**Ninski**

BoomWolf wrote:
I guess that "the formations in kittens are NOT the up-to-date formations" concept is not registering for you.

And "one casualty and you lose the bonus" only applies to the "Da Green Horde" bonus, not the four (though two of the four are warlord related) others, nor for the bonuses derived from the formation itself (that you don't even know yet!)

If you want trukk boys? buy trukks for your boys. nothing in the formation forbids it.
Warbikes? they are in the auxiliary choices as a free-floating unit. you can spam them mostly freely once you get any core.
"Just a Dread Mob" you can take it without the Orkcurion.

Heck, this is far more flexible than you give it credit for. it has 15(!!!!) whole units from practically every FOC slot as free-floater choices that you can mix and match freely. no other decurion variant has more than 2.

And if the orkurion still don't work for you, you can always default to a CAD, or any of the ork detachments, or the yet unseen orkurion (as this is the ghazkull one, meaning "vanilla orks" will get another one)

And considering you only know the -general premise- of the formations based on their old rules means you really can't tell what is good and what is bad.

Agreed, I think we need to step back and look at our expectations here (this is orks we're talking about). The two core choices were decent formations to begin with, but were inflexible and needed help from additional units. Now we can use this to supplement the core choices and get bonuses that were written by someone who actually played orks. It's not powerful compared to other decurion but adds some spice to things you were probably doing anyways if you tried to use those core formations. Not sure why the dread mob isn't core though.

**BAN**

where does it say +2 to mob rule?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
was a core formation usable in smaller games too much to ask for?

**hordrak**

Is it just me or does the datasheet for the WAAAAGH!-Band lack the Ghazgkull rules? If yes that means that only the old Ghaz formations get them. This could change a few things...

**Kap'n Krump**

BAN wrote:
where does it say +2 to mob rule?

Da boss is watchin, unless that rule has changed.

As for the HoW improvement - yes it's better, but to be frank the requirement to roll 10 or more on the charge was ridiculous. It should have always been base HoW for 10+ models. Even free HoW on everything is still garbage. A handful of str3 attacks doesn't do much - and it is a handful, as only models in base-to-base contact at I10 get HoW, which is generally in the 4-8 range. And 6 str 3 hits on top of, you know, 40 str 4 attacks is basically worthless.

**General_K**

slightly OT from the great waaagh, but Bellof Lost Souls just posted some images of the flying formations. http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/02/new-formations-the-orks-get-more-love-from-gw.html

I'm not sure how different these formations are from existing ones, but this formation certainly seems useful:

Being able to leave the table and return with HPs and unique weapons fully restored? that sounds fairly nasty. The formation's only really useful in an apocalypse game, considering its size, but I rather like that.

**Blub**

It is the same formation as before. High investment and only 2 out of 5 flyers have one use only weapons. For the same point cost you get a drone factory from FSE.

**General_K**

Blub wrote:
It is the same formation as before. High investment and only 2 out of 5 flyers have one use only weapons. For the same point cost you get a drone factory from FSE.

oh, boo. Well, nevermind, then.

**Blub**

hordrak wrote:
Is it just me or does the datasheet for the WAAAAGH!-Band lack the Ghazgkull rules? If yes that means that only the old Ghaz formations get them. This could change a few things...

On the overview sheet where all Ghazghkull rulles are described it says:
"All formations and the Great WAAAGH detachtment have following rules"

And then all Ghazghkull rules are listed.

So whatever you choose from this book (formation or detachtment) has the "Da Boss is Watchin" and "Da Biggest an Best" special rules.

**Vankraken**

Blub wrote:
It is the same formation as before. High investment and only 2 out of 5 flyers have one use only weapons. For the same point cost you get a drone factory from FSE.

On top of that these are Ork flyers with AV10 cardboard armor. The chance of them making off the table and not getting shot down is very low.

**TedNugent**

XC18 wrote:

Spoiler:

You could use this formation with the standard Ork codex and the far superior vanilla codex warlord traits. Since there is a reroll, that even technically gives you about ~30% chance to get Prophet of the Waaagh with your vanilla warboss.

**BAN**

i'm good at rolling 1's I'll be fine

**koooaei**

hordrak wrote:
Unfortunatly having only one way to run the orkurion I'm thinking to try the following loudout for the Council: 2 warbosses in MA, Big mek with MFF and barebone nobs. Majoriry T5, majority 6+ save, but lots of S10 attacks and 2+/2++. In CC some nob issues a chalange so Ghazy can soak up any wound. Not going to steamroll wolfstars or fateweaver stars, but will be a big pain for any opponent. Might even squize it into 1850.

Ghazzy is forced to accept challenges, so can't tank in melee.

**hordrak**

koooaei wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Unfortunatly having only one way to run the orkurion I'm thinking to try the following loudout for the Council: 2 warbosses in MA, Big mek with MFF and barebone nobs. Majoriry T5, majority 6+ save, but lots of S10 attacks and 2+/2++. In CC some nob issues a chalange so Ghazy can soak up any wound. Not going to steamroll wolfstars or fateweaver stars, but will be a big pain for any opponent. Might even squize it into 1850.

Ghazzy is forced to accept challenges, so can't tank in melee.

Damn. So close to not being useless...

**koooaei**

GW made sure orks don't get good stuff ;D
I mean read our special rules - they're the best written rules in games. "...if all the models...", "...if they didn't move...", etc. No battlebrothers...

**oldzoggy**

.

**Blub**

What I still don't really understand is the dread mob. Also in the old W!G it only stated "Ere we go" and described the special rule (which is a universal special rules for Orks). It doesn't say that the walkers have it.

Also in the updated W!G they haven't changed the wording so I am still confused.

**oldzoggy**

TedNugent wrote:
XC18 wrote:

Spoiler:

You could use this formation with the standard Ork codex and the far superior vanilla codex warlord traits. Since there is a reroll, that even technically gives you about ~30% chance to get Prophet of the Waaagh with your vanilla warboss.

So the waaagh formation does noting at all if you include it in the Crapcurion :\

**Kap'n Krump**

oldzoggy wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
XC18 wrote:

Spoiler:

You could use this formation with the standard Ork codex and the far superior vanilla codex warlord traits. Since there is a reroll, that even technically gives you about ~30% chance to get Prophet of the Waaagh with your vanilla warboss.

So the waaagh formation does noting at all if you include it in the Crapcurion :\

Well, as someone pointed out earlier, the waaagh formation only grants HoW hits if you roll a charge range of 10+, wheras the crapcurion (I like that) grants HoW regardless of charge distance traveled (both require 10+ models). The rule is garbage either way, but there is technically an advantage to including the waaaagh formation in the Decurion.

**morfydd**

Time to hammer out a list or two to see if i can actually fit all my ork models into one single unit and not a pile of cads