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The D3+3 wounds from Mob Rule is if you pass Mob Rule at all, not just 10+ models. But with the +2 on the die roll thanks to Da Boss Iz Watching that means unless you roll a 1 you need 10+ models. Odds are, no ork unit will ever get mob rule again. And Born to Fight is impossible to get.

Why wouldn't a unit be able to make the mob rule again? If you have more than ten guys and a nob you auto pass. If your running trukk boys then ya its bad but for footslogging mobs its great.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The D3+3 wounds from Mob Rule is if you pass Mob Rule at all, not just 10+ models. But with the +2 on the die roll thanks to Da Boss Iz Watching that means unless you roll a 1 you need 10+ models. Odds are, no ork unit will ever get mob rule again. And Born to Fight is impossible to get.

RAW, you also fail on 5 and 6 cause there's no result for 7 and 8 in Mob Rule Table. It explictly states 4-6. So, you can still fail even with large numbers. Unless you play RAI but it's a dangerous territory.

So, Ghaz is mandatory for this list. And pray to not get stomped on with a cheapo knight.

Except for the fact that you can't roll off of a table... Of your rolling on a table there are only so many possible outcomes. In this case there are 3. 1 fails unless in combat, 2-3 succeed with a character, and 4-6 require 10+. There is nothing higher than 6 so therefore you cant roll higher than that because you are rolling on a table with a limited number of outcomes. Also the idea for that mob rule to be a -2 is even worse than a +2 if you could get off the table. Then outside combat you fail on a 1-3 and 1-2 fail no matter what. Also hypothetically lets say you're rolling on the destroyer table with a +1 somehow. Does that mean if you roll a 6 and add 1 for 7 that nothing happens? Or for siezing the initiative if you have a plus 1 and you roll a 6 then I guess you don't sieze because you just got a 7. You still have to think for RAW. If there are a limited number of possible outcomes such as with a table then those are the ONLY possible outcomes.


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Basically the limits for rolling on the chart are 1 and 6. You can't roll a 0 and you can't roll a 7+ because they are not on the chart. There are three possible results so regardless of what you roll it has to end with one of those results.

Nowhere it is written you can't get result higher than 6 with modifiers, so 6+2 = 6 is just an assumption.

Yes and because you are rolling on a table with three possible outcomes then you can't get anything else. 6+2 does equal 8 but you are also assuming that you fail because of it. I'm saying that it isn't a legal roll then because you can't leave the chart and still be rolling on it. If you roll and you are off the chart then you are no longer rolling on the chart. Please find me another chart that you can roll off of. The thing is that since it is a chart to roll on it you can only get one of the results that it contains which in this case maxes out at 6. Technically you are also assuming that 6+2=8 which means that you fail the roll. Nowhere does it say anything about rolling a 7-8 so you can't roll those results on the chart at all.

Yep, and what makes you think that 6+2 = 6 and not 2, for example?

It equals six only because that is what the table caps out at.
When you roll on a table you can't get a result that isn't on the table. So if due to whatever modifier you would be off the table you need to stop at the last valid result.

Also technically RAW you can't proceed if you roll a 7-8 without making a RAI assumption. If you roll a 7-8 on a chart that only goes to 6 then you have broken it and can't proceed.

 cranect wrote:
It equals six only because that is what the table caps out at.
When you roll on a table you can't get a result that isn't on the table. So if due to whatever modifier you would be off the table you need to stop at the last valid result.

Also technically RAW you can't proceed if you roll a 7-8 without making a RAI assumption. If you roll a 7-8 on a chart that only goes to 6 then you have broken it and can't proceed.

That's just one of the numerous 40k moments that open a black hole in the middle of the board.

Really sad how it turned out. The waaagh band nearly copies new decurion rules. But for games 2000+ points it`s really great, if council of waaagh is taken.

So as someone who loves my green tide 1850 list, can I still run it? I still have a book that says it's legitimate. Is this an update that invalidates previous editions or like some other updates just adds?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't said anywhere that we can't take the formations that consist of single bikers,lootas, etc. without the ghazcurion. Could be a nice way to get more units using a standart CAD without doubling it.

 hordrak wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't said anywhere that we can't take the formations that consist of single bikers,lootas, etc. without the ghazcurion. Could be a nice way to get more units using a standart CAD without doubling it.

You are wrong

Unit choices (eg lootas) are not formations they are auxiliary choices, you would need a formation data slate to take them as a formation.

 hordrak wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't said anywhere that we can't take the formations that consist of single bikers,lootas, etc. without the ghazcurion. Could be a nice way to get more units using a standart CAD without doubling it.

i don't think they are considered formations, just units you can take as aux choice

 koooaei wrote:

 cranect wrote:
It equals six only because that is what the table caps out at.
When you roll on a table you can't get a result that isn't on the table. So if due to whatever modifier you would be off the table you need to stop at the last valid result.

Also technically RAW you can't proceed if you roll a 7-8 without making a RAI assumption. If you roll a 7-8 on a chart that only goes to 6 then you have broken it and can't proceed.

That's just one of the numerous 40k moments that open a black hole in the middle of the board.

Nice so that's how we are supposed to win every game lol.

 cranect wrote:


Nice so that's how we are supposed to win every game lol.

Yep.
Be an ork @ Roll a 7.


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 vercingatorix wrote:
So as someone who loves my green tide 1850 list, can I still run it? I still have a book that says it's legitimate. Is this an update that invalidates previous editions or like some other updates just adds?

Unless they faq or explain otherwise - and they almost never do it now - there simply is no greentide no more. If i get it right, this book comes instead of ghaz supplement. But not 100% sure.

Is my Ghaz book now obsolete ? Mostly concerned if it is for ITC as that's what we go by. Thanks.

Hard to tell yet.

i tried. Painmob gave me an idea to make at least a somewhat competitive list but again i fall on the old problem of useless required units and/or insane formation requirements preventing it.
Painmob isnt a W!G formation so it doesnt have the Mob Rule bs thank god.



I is sad. Would be a very fun and somewhat durable list since 3 painboyz...fethin DEFFDREDDS! lol...

I think it has more potential than Ghaz.

I'd get pk for nobz. BC are not vry amazing. They don't get far from regular choppas cause of 1 less attack. Yep, s6 but i usually find 1 PK better than 5 BC cause of utitily.

Haldir wrote:
Is my Ghaz book now obsolete ? Mostly concerned if it is for ITC as that's what we go by. Thanks.

I thought a new codex always did replace the old one. It would be kind of strange otherwise if you could choose which edition you want to play. But if you are playing with friends or have house rules in your local gaming community I guess you can always decide to use the old editions.

Yes that I know , just wasn't sure if it was a variant or a new edition. Replacing sure gets expensive....

 cranect wrote:
I never use eavy armor. I have been tempted but there is just so much that ignores that 4+ save around here. Plus I'd rather have the extra body for footslogging. Just personal opinion though. I was tempted to do an all ard boy green tide and have the boys pretend to be necrons with shootas as well lol.

It does depend on your Meta.

In general, the cost of the armor is about the same (all things considered) as the cost of extra boyz, since they usually go last at my AP6 boyz die a lot before they can swing. AP4 in combat is rare, at least in my meta. Bloodletters are my bane...

If that holds true for you, one added benefit of heavy armor is the effective carrying capacity of trukks & battlewagons goes up. 11 armored boyz is worht 16-18 unarmored ones.

Ya there are a lot of people who like their lightning claws and such here but the bigger part is the ap4 shooting. Also since I just don't want to play speed freaks in normally footslogging it. Occasionally I do a bloodaxes theme and fill some battlewagons and looted wagons with shoota boys though. Normally the extra bodies are better just to let me reach the gunlines.

So heres a question on the painmob

You declare their pile on ability at the start of the movement phase. Lets assume this move kills the unit they were locked in combat with. Do they then get to consolidate and continue the rest of their movement phase such as basic movement? Can they declare another assault in the assault phase?

i would wager it replaces their movement phase but they act normally otherwise.
Purely based on logic though, RAW i dont have a single idea.

The only thing I know to compare it to (With my limited knowledge) is IG orders. They are done at the start of the shooting phase just as the pile on ability is done at the start of the movement phase. The IG units who issue orders are then able to act as normal after issuing their orders as they are not making a normal shooting phase move or action.

I assume its the same for the painmob.

I think one simple fix to the Waaagh-Band requirement would be the option to combine all the required units into a mini-Green Tide. You'd get up to 20 Nobz in the unit and only have to pay for 60 Boyz. You could have 30 ablative grots with Majority Toughness 4!

One simple fix and I'd play it every game.

I wish the command was 0+ or 0-6, 1 painboy for 6 units or more isn't going to cut it.

And wish waaaagh was helpfull to shooty units. If a unit doesn't run during a waaagh it can fire an extra gak with assault weapons.

As for now I'm testing out a kill mob formation and a cad. The draw back of the Orkcurion are to harsh.

 PipeAlley wrote:
I think one simple fix to the Waaagh-Band requirement would be the option to combine all the required units into a mini-Green Tide. You'd get up to 20 Nobz in the unit and only have to pay for 60 Boyz. You could have 30 ablative grots with Majority Toughness 4!

One simple fix and I'd play it every game.

Just combining the Ork boyz I'd be happy with.
You can still get them to over 100 models, and I rarely took more than 6 Nobz anyway.