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 IllumiNini wrote:

Also, if you completely overhaul the models for the Tyranids, what are people supposed to do with their Tyranid models? Is GW supposed to reimburse them should they ever actually do this? I mean, a complete overhaul of the models is fine in theory and I do hate many of the models, but practically speaking it's an impossibly bad idea.

Uh, they ALREADY DID. Seriously, go look at the old screamer-killer, warriors and zoanthrope models back from like 2E-3E.

And Tyranids are not the only ones that had a make-over. Dreadnoughts got an overhaul as did Rhinos (and variants - not just the hull, but turrets as well), Land Riaders and most especially Land Speeders. Then there's the necron destroyers and wraiths ...

It wouldn't be an "impossibly bad idea" - its already GW's SOP.

Leave only named characters as heroic scale, and make all other units size appropriate. I dislike having cultists that are almost as large as a chaos space marine or terminator.

The idea of giving tyranids "sentience" is an awful idea, IMO. I HATED when they gave the necrons personality and character traits. Much preferred the soulless emotionless robots. I also like the emotionless nids. It is what truly makes them evil..

unless you are a Tyranid in which case you are only doing what your instinctively and bio-engineered to do. consume and spread. So not really evil at all. Love that existential conundrum. That all goes away if you add in mutiny and personality. Its no longer biological drive and ambition. No longer animalistic.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I also like the emotionless nids. It is what truly makes them evil.

No, it's what makes them NOT evil. Evil requires consciousness and higher-level thinking about morality. We don't say that a wild animal is evil for killing its prey, or that a tornado is evil for destroying houses and killing the people inside. Same with the Tyrannids, they're just a mindless force of nature acting according to instincts.


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 JimOnMars wrote:
I'm surprised by all the Nid hate (dislike?) I think ravenous bugs brings something to the game other than variations on bi-pedal man-sized gun-toting infantry. After all, doesn't AM have that shtick down? Why does everyone have to be a wanna-be guardsman?

Part of the problem with the Tyranid models is that they often are "bipedal man-sized gun-toting infantry". Why do Tyranids have so many models that are carrying guns or swords or whatever just like any other infantry would?

Go watch a Killer Whale playing with a Seal, and revisit your thoughts about mindless forces of nature. Nids are more like that Killer Whale than a Tornado.

pm713 wrote:
Lots of name changes in Space Wolves.

Remove IK.

Remove WK.

I'm agreeing with this one the most.
I'd actually like to see a lot of name changes in the Wolves, instead of "all the wolfy wolf you can wolf" I'd like to see more of the fact that they're space vikings. They're Space Wolves accompanied by wolves, riding wolves and turning into wolves stop it right there and it's awesome, some people might still think that's too much but the last three actually got me into the hobby.

Change Greatpacks back to Great Companies...the Great Companies' names could probably be improved but I've taken a liking to some of the wolfy ones and inspiration is being clouded at the moment.
Wolf Guard have had plenty of better options for 'alternate Honour Guard' drawing on Norse phrases and even in the fluff. Sword Brothers, Kingsguard, Chieftains, Varangian Guard...
Wolf Amulets could probably get a better name as well.
Fangsword of the ice wolf...it's a helfrost sword. What's wrong with calling it a Helfrost Sword, hell, get creative and call it a 'Jotun Sword' or Sword of the Frost Giants.
Wolf Claws, yeah it kinda works except wolves don't really use their claws in fights. If they need a name because they're better than lightning claws name them after one of Odin's ravens or call them Fenrisian Claws.

IK and WK...belong in apocalypse games.


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Why have so many people got an issue with Santa Claws and his sleigh? It's rarely fielded and not exactly world beating Y'all need to get a sense of humour.
I'm more irritated by the fact that there's three open topped vehicles in the Space Wolves codex and you can't assault out of any of them.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Lots of name changes in Space Wolves.

Remove IK.

Remove WK.

I'm agreeing with this one the most.
I'd actually like to see a lot of name changes in the Wolves, instead of "all the wolfy wolf you can wolf" I'd like to see more of the fact that they're space vikings. They're Space Wolves accompanied by wolves, riding wolves and turning into wolves stop it right there and it's awesome, some people might still think that's too much but the last three actually got me into the hobby.

Change Greatpacks back to Great Companies...the Great Companies' names could probably be improved but I've taken a liking to some of the wolfy ones and inspiration is being clouded at the moment.
Wolf Guard have had plenty of better options for 'alternate Honour Guard' drawing on Norse phrases and even in the fluff. Sword Brothers, Kingsguard, Chieftains, Varangian Guard...
Wolf Amulets could probably get a better name as well.
Fangsword of the ice wolf...it's a helfrost sword. What's wrong with calling it a Helfrost Sword, hell, get creative and call it a 'Jotun Sword' or Sword of the Frost Giants.
Wolf Claws, yeah it kinda works except wolves don't really use their claws in fights. If they need a name because they're better than lightning claws name them after one of Odin's ravens or call them Fenrisian Claws.

IK and WK...belong in apocalypse games.


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Why have so many people got an issue with Santa Claws and his sleigh? It's rarely fielded and not exactly world beating Y'all need to get a sense of humour.
I'm more irritated by the fact that there's three open topped vehicles in the Space Wolves codex and you can't assault out of any of them.

My naming goes: Wolf Guard = Huscarls.
Wolf Lord = Jarl.
Wolf Claws = Frost Claws. (Since new Wulfen got frost claws one of them gets changed to Rune Claws instead.)

That kind of thing.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Why have so many people got an issue with Santa Claws and his sleigh? It's rarely fielded and not exactly world beating Y'all need to get a sense of humour..

It's just conceptually and visually absurd, a physical manifestation of the way the Space Wolves have a taken a motif and run it into the ground, in a way you'd usually expect from an overactive 12 year old's bad internet fanfic.

pm713 wrote:

My naming goes: Wolf Guard = Huscarls.
Wolf Lord = Jarl.
Wolf Claws = Frost Claws. (Since new Wulfen got frost claws one of them gets changed to Rune Claws instead.)

That kind of thing.

I forgot all about the HQs, Huscarl Battle Leader has a nice ring.
I like Jarl.
Wolf Priest - Priest of Hel?
The Wolf Claws would be the better option for Relic Claws, somewhere in the Curse of the Wulfen books it actually says the Wulfen Frost Claws are improvised from ice energy crystals...getting a bit towards light-saber tech there.


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 Vaktathi wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Why have so many people got an issue with Santa Claws and his sleigh? It's rarely fielded and not exactly world beating Y'all need to get a sense of humour..

It's just conceptually and visually absurd, a physical manifestation of the way the Space Wolves have a taken a motif and run it into the ground, in a way you'd usually expect from an overactive 12 year old's bad internet fanfic.

Ouch.
I borrowed stuff off my Xmas tree decorations and had a bit of fun with it. I just wish he was worth fielding more often.

I always get stuck with the Wolf Priests. Usually I turn unimaginative and pick "Priest of Russ".

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

I don't think many people want to remove them entirely, they just want to put them (along with other LoW) into large games where they're more appropriate and get rid of the "my 1000 point army is all superheavies" problem.

@Peregrin: That's my interpretation as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

For me it's definitely removing from normal 40k. If it was apocalypse I'd be fine but I'd rather tone down the game via removal of superheavies, gmcs and D weaponry.

Quite frankly, I think the ship on Flyers, Supers, Gargantuans and S(D) has sailed and the result is just penalizing players who bought the biggest, coolest models.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

A Knight or 2 in a 2k game is usally fine. An army of 5 however is usually not something most armies are capable of reasonably dealing with, particularly without tailoring. Likewise, they're really abusive in smaller games.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


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 Vaktathi wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Why have so many people got an issue with Santa Claws and his sleigh? It's rarely fielded and not exactly world beating Y'all need to get a sense of humour..

It's just conceptually and visually absurd, a physical manifestation of the way the Space Wolves have a taken a motif and run it into the ground, in a way you'd usually expect from an overactive 12 year old's bad internet fanfic.

Ouch.
I borrowed stuff off my Xmas tree decorations and had a bit of fun with it. I just wish he was worth fielding more often.

I mean, if you like it and have fun with it, great, I'm certainly not to try and hate on your enjoyment of it, it's just something I don't like at all

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Quite frankly, I think the ship on Flyers, Supers, Gargantuans and S(D) has sailed and the result is just penalizing players who bought the biggest, coolest models.

Sadly that seems to be the situation with GMC and flyers etc. Can still remove D at least.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

A Knight or 2 in a 2k game is usally fine. An army of 5 however is usually not something most armies are capable of reasonably dealing with, particularly without tailoring. Likewise, they're really abusive in smaller games.

Nah. Let me bring my Knight, Warhound and Wraithknight, and I'm probably good against those IKTs.

I'd relegate all Gargantuan models to Apoc so nobody can whine that it's a biased move.
Under 2500 points it becomes a money game rather than a strategy game and some people just don't have the kind of money to field three knights, if you want to bring more people into the hobby you have to make competition affordable.

Apocalypse is 5k points a side as a bare minimum and that's where gargantuan models belong.

 IllumiNini wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Remove the Tyranids. Ugly models, awful fluff, just get rid of them and put them out of their misery.

I think a greater variety of models as well as a significant improvement to their fluff would be the better option when put against removing them outright. Explore the Hive Mind a little more, differentiate between the major Hive Fleets a bit more (which also coincides with more models), etc etc. GW just need to polish of their apparently very dusty thinking caps and do it.

I would love to see the Tyranids redone to be more like animals with more bio diversity. Get rid of there guns. (They just look like penises anyway.) Then add in more creature parts like fur, or scales, feathers, ect. As of right now, it seems like almost every nid is the same. (I mean they don't even look like different bugs.) Maybe try designing them along the idea of modern dinosaurs with feathers?

I would also change up the hive mind element. Give them more of a pack mentality and increase the intelligence. (I doubt this is would work for others though.)

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

For me it's definitely removing from normal 40k. If it was apocalypse I'd be fine but I'd rather tone down the game via removal of superheavies, gmcs and D weaponry.

But they aren't broken in regular 40k. What's the issue?

nomotog wrote:
Get rid of there guns. (They just look like penises anyway.)

I think you need to see a doctor about something.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove Imperial Knights. The model is superb and they aren't broken or anything.

For me it's definitely removing from normal 40k. If it was apocalypse I'd be fine but I'd rather tone down the game via removal of superheavies, gmcs and D weaponry.

But they aren't broken in regular 40k. What's the issue?

I'd point out they are broken considering how easily I can take them at very low points.

Apart from that it's just me preferring a more toned down version of the game. Fix them and I don't have anything to complain about.

Centurions should go (Spess Mehreens inside Spess Mehreens)

Santa Logan should GTFO

Most of the Wolf Wolves Wolf stuff needs to go or at least get renamed.

Obliterators need new models.

Khorne Berzerkers and Possessed look Derpy. Hence why I'm willing to pay for Gal Vorbak.

SOB's need new models.

Guardsmen need new face sculpts.

Most of the Tyranid line looks pretty goofy IMO (Pyrovores).

I would love to see say, three plastic guardsmen boxes from different worlds that are completely interchangeable so you get loads of customisation options. I hate the Cadian look and much prefer the first iteration of Imperial Guard from the late eighties.

Individual power armour sprues that can be used to make more than one kind of power armour.

Just more stuff I guess.

For less money....

Bring back the Necron Pariah aesthetic somewhere. I'm a bit miffed they retconned them; those spooky heads were so befitting of the unit.
In fact, the Pariahs are one of my favourite units, even if I've never used them.

 Stormonu wrote:

Plastic Sisters? And while at it, perform a top-to-bottom redesign of the army with "Sister Sin" from the Rogue Trader book as inspiration - get rid of the "Catholic church on wheels" look and more towards a fast, sleek, fanatical lawbringer army with Judge Dredd overtones and healthy taste for prometheum and explosives.

That would be absolutely amazing, although it seems a bit touchy fitting them inbetween Grey Knights and Arbites looks-wise.

I would ditch GW's bullgak excuse that they are a model company first and foremost and a game company dead last.

Have GW fraking recognize their war gamers as their primary market. Dispose of the codex cycle. Write the rules all at once and make it free on their website. Edit the rules on their website should there need to be an errata. When I said rules, I dont mean the gakky fluff.

Have GW buy back all their old models for 1/10 the box price. Get people in the company to paint models quuckly. And repackage as finished semi professional painted formations and armies or squads. I say semi professional because its a step above what people are advertising as professional painted on ebay. Transition to making X-wing quality models.

Make the game accessible to senior highschool teenagers with a minimum wage jobs.

So many people have quit due to the price and time it takes. Change the company 180° from hardcore hobby to casual toy game like hero clix and x wing.

Git and continual integration.

Codexes and rulebooks would be printed as latest versions, and the diffs from the latest major release would be available.


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Also, bring in a 'Mordheim in Space', and not just Kill Team. Allow a Tac squad to be fielded like a Warband. Thatd be a great gateway to low points games.

Further, the final version would be rebalanced around a CAD-based demicompany. If you want to be a Dev squad and move (like Dark Reapers)? Thats a lot more points. Want high-volume Lasguns, or mobile Melta? Moar points. Want a 2+ and T6+? Thats a ton of points. Want to field Guard with HWT? Theyd make Devs look expensive.

I'd start by having GW stop trying to make a profit off their rules books and offer them for free online - or at least for a reduced price, since there'd be no need for expensive physical bindings and whatnot. I'd also like to see GW be more receptive to balance problems and fix them, say, on a quarterly basis - which would be much easier if the rules were entirely online and we weren't talking about waiting until a whole new Codex gets printed years after the balance problem crops up.

I'd also re-balance armies so an army using all the units in a starter box is competitive with whatever other builds people can come up with. I'd build in incentives to play an army that is representative of what each faction would typically go to battle with.

I'd have squad-based and patrol-level games, both because they're fun and because they'd make a good entry point for new players.

I'd get rid of the Allies rules. The matrix was completely unnecessary for casual funsies games. The only function it serves is to legitimize players exploiting broken, unintended synergies present by being able to field an army comprised of units of multiple factions. Which also damages the thematic aspect of the game.

I'd greatly increase the Troops requirement, either through requiring more Troops choices, or using a percentage system (my preference - 40% Troops works well in my experience).

I'd change how players access superheavies. Instead of having a separate LOW slot in the FOC, I'd have a superheavy option take up all of a player's Heavy Support slot. There would be no armies comprised entirely of superheavies. IKs become a LOW choice for any Imperial army.


On a somewhat different note, I'd also start trying to have the game appeal more to female players. Currently, GW isn't even trying. There's one (almost) all-female army that's been neglected in both rules and models for, what, going on a decade now? The fluff for the game's flagship army has them being a boys-only club, and there are so named female characters, you could hold all the minis for them in one hand and still be able to hold a cup of tea. You'd think at the very least, there'd be a female Eldar Farseer mini, especially as how all the DoW games have had female Farseers, but there isn't a corresponding mini.

I'd start with a full revamp of the Sisters of Battle - at the very least, give them decent, up-to-date rules, and a plastic kit for their basic squad would help tremendously as well. Then, I'd increase the visible female presence in the other armies where doing so makes sense - specifically Imperial Guard, Eldar, and Tau. I'm not saying they have to be 50% of each gender or anything, but have at least some female minis, and some high-profile female characters. With Space Marines, it gets tricky because of the fluff. One idea would be to have the "missing" legions/primarchs be female, and maybe lost in the warp or something to explain why they haven't been around. Alternately, maybe the game could get away with keeping Space Marines as-is if the role and presence of the Sisters of Battle is beefed up in the current setting.

Why go to all this trouble? The population of the United States is 51% female, and the nerd population has started to reflect that. I'd think GW would want to tap into that market. I'm not saying revamping the Sisters and a female Farseer mini are going to suddenly make the 40K fanbase reflect the population as a whole, but it'd be a start.

I swear some of you posted as though you didn't read the title.