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So what it says in the title, there is a lot of stuff in the 40k hobby, and a lot of it (in the eyes of certain viewers) can look really, really stupid. Whether it's an older model, a derpy face stulpt, a bad design in general, or just a design choice you don't like, what would you (visually not rules wise) change about 40k?

Personally I would change the possesed into something that looks less like demons in broken space marine cosplay.

That and changing the lids to a screw top on citadel paints...

Delete TWC's and Santa Logan from the existence of the game. Likewise Centurions. Simply poor concepts on general with goofy looking models.



On a more general note, plastic IG infantry all have looks on their faces that speak of painful constipation, and really look best when paired with a 3rd party kit head.

Also, I'd give the Hydra its enclosed turret back. It looks goofy without it.

I'd divide 40k into 4 different game types (and I'm aware that most of these are already/were once a thing):

100-500 pts is Kill Team, a unit-level squad combat game

500-1500 pts is Skirmish, standard FOC-type detachments only. No Formations. No SHVs, GMCs, etc.

1500-2500 pts is Warzone, Formations cost points, and LoW is limited to 25% of points total, otherwise this is the gametype we currently have.

2500+ pts is Apocalypse, More or less anything goes here as far as list building. This is purely for fun.

I have just realized the title of this thread says "whathammer 40k"

Eliminate centurions. Expand weapon options for Terminators. Make a devastator terminator unit sort of like Tyrant Siege termies with a plethora of weapon options.

Eliminate Thunderwolf Calvary and Santa Grimnar. Yeah just... just no.

Make Wulfen into werewolf themed Space Marines rather than Space Marine themed werewolves.

Make plastic Vostroyans and get rid of Catachans. Redesign Cadians from the ground up to give them better proportions and less goofy faces. Add a female body or five.

Mutilators and Oblits should be a lot less fleshy looking. It looks bad and clashes with a lot of the CSM line.

The Taurox needs to go. Just go. Get out of here. You suck in every way. The Chimera is, was and always will be the Guard transport of choice.

Recut the CSM box and mix up the leg's armor marks for gods sake. Why do all them need to be Mk 6?

Redo all the resin aspect warriors to be more in line with the Harlequinns. They always looked kind of goofy. to me (Except the Scorpions) Especially the Warp Spiders.

The Stormsurge should be closed top. A personal nit pick of mine, I know, but this is my list so...

Update Sisters. Really, I find their face sculpts to be... dated. They unhelmeted ones have not aged well.

Eliminate the Tau and Eldar from the game. Remove grav from the game. Remove IKs from the game.

I personally would give IG plastic boxed sets for every official planet, like Mordian. I'd also reintroduce regimental traits for imperial guard.

Get the tauroxes outta here!!! please!

stop giving the taus weird and too big armours over and over again, but look into more auxiliaries instead.

Make a real synapse chart with real penalty.

Lastly, replace every finecast orks and models in general by resin ones.

That's pretty all I'd get changed.

The question really is, what *wouldn't* you change?

I would start completely from scratch. I don't think there are any redeeming qualities to 40k as a game. I would save virtually nothing.

I would split the game into two separate games: a skirmish game that works up to roughly 1000-1500 points worth of models today, and a battle game for anything larger.

The skirmish game would probably draw on Bolt Action a lot for mechanics (I do realize Bolt Action has a lot of 40k in its DNA, but the suppression and random activation mechanics are worth stealing). This would be where you preserve some of the granular detail of equipping characters and the funky special rules that give 40k a lot of flavor. No flyers, no superheavies, somewhat restricted force selection options, heavy emphasis on infantry.

The battle game would draw on games like Epic: Armageddon. Alternating activation, suppression, heavy emphasis on units rather than models, lots of fixed numbers instead of charts. Rules would be very streamlined with little unit customization because the game isn't played at a scale where special snowflake rules matter, or we care who has what grenades. This is where you include superheavies and flyers that enter and leave the table in a single turn.

Basically 40k Edition 3.4 is hopeless. It's time for another reboot and I don't think much of anything is worth saving.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
The question really is, what *wouldn't* you change?

I would start completely from scratch. I don't think there are any redeeming qualities to 40k as a game. I would save virtually nothing.

I would split the game into two separate games: a skirmish game that works up to roughly 1000-1500 points worth of models today, and a battle game for anything larger.

The skirmish game would probably draw on Bolt Action a lot for mechanics (I do realize Bolt Action has a lot of 40k in its DNA, but the suppression and random activation mechanics are worth stealing). This would be where you preserve some of the granular detail of equipping characters and the funky special rules that give 40k a lot of flavor. No flyers, no superheavies, somewhat restricted force selection options, heavy emphasis on infantry.

The battle game would draw on games like Epic: Armageddon. Alternating activation, suppression, heavy emphasis on units rather than models, lots of fixed numbers instead of charts. Rules would be very streamlined with little unit customization because the game isn't played at a scale where special snowflake rules matter, or we care who has what grenades. This is where you include superheavies and flyers that enter and leave the table in a single turn.

Basically 40k Edition 3.4 is hopeless. It's time for another reboot and I don't think much of anything is worth saving.

I wouldn't bring such a heavy rebuilding to the game. In a sense, the core game's been great before it went kinda out of hand with,at first, the problems release alongside the 6th edition, and the incapability of 7th to fix it out nor to offer an attractive ruleset anymore. I really seeyour proposal as somewhat too radical.

I however agree on the point that, in so far Bolt Action was written by a former GW staff member it's very 40k thought at the very root, even though they actually manage, from this, to come with a very special and awesome ruleset from which the pin system would certainly suit well. Though I play IG, I'd especially like to see charges distances shifted into a reliable distance and combat results resulting in insta-destruction for the losing side unless it can rely on fearless or and they shall know no fear rules.

As far as heavy units, flyers and so on, I'd moderate your idea; In my view,40k would badly lack them if the were thrown out of the game, but it has to be something that keeps under control. The contrary of what we're currently witnessing with formation systems and the new release always composed of some gigantic stuff (and expensive.)

Wishing to be constructive.

Ok while I did get some interesting responses, please read the first post. This is NOT a thread about rules or gameplay. This was about pure aesthetic designs of models and things in the fluff. Not gameplay wise.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Ok while I did get some interesting responses, please read the first post. This is NOT a thread about rules or gameplay. This was about pure aesthetic designs of models and things in the fluff. Not gameplay wise.

In that case, remove Tau, or change them entirely. The robots are cool, but way too stiff and blocky. I want Gundam, not LEGOs. Also, more Kroot and Auxillary choices please.

Lots of name changes in Space Wolves.

Remove IK.

Remove WK.

I'd like to see the Eldar Aspect warriors get plastic upgrades. Same with Adepta Sororitas.

 Happyjew wrote:
I'd like to see the Eldar Aspect warriors get plastic upgrades. Same with Adepta Sororitas.

I would kill for that.

pm713 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I'd like to see the Eldar Aspect warriors get plastic upgrades. Same with Adepta Sororitas.

I would kill for that.

Is that an offer? I have a list of certain GW employees that I would like to see "removed from play" as it were.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Ok while I did get some interesting responses, please read the first post. This is NOT a thread about rules or gameplay. This was about pure aesthetic designs of models and things in the fluff. Not gameplay wise.

Sorry about that.

I'm going to focus back on the subject right now then: SoB deserve a real book as a codex and some plastic miniatures. Also, I just thought about it, but it'd look sweet to have IGs with a kind of LMG in the squad's sprues, at least to please one's eyes.

Change the Taurox to a half-track. Change roughriders to either be riding dirt bikes or fantastical beasts, not horses.

Change Thunderwolves to grizzly bears.

Smash the mold for Santa Grimnar.

Get rid of centurions.

Bring back jet bikes for space marines.

Rearrange the driver compartment (overhead cab?) in the Rhino and chimera so the assault ramp is in the front, not the rear (like the Land Raider).

Bring back all flavors of Imperial Guard in plastic and make Cadian heads look less like derpy Starship trooper knockoffs.

Sprues for female head/torso swaps for marines (homebrew loyalists or Slaanesh!). Same for Imperial guard.

Sealed cockpit for Dreadknight and Stormsurge. Give the Stormsurge arms and get it out of the "taking a squat" pose.

Eldar Aspect warriors in plastic; redo the striking scorpions so they don't look like Predators and give Warp spiders a more streamlined appearance. Also, redo the Fire dragons masks and weapons so they can be easily distinguished from guardians.

Plastic Sisters? And while at it, perform a top-to-bottom redesign of the army with "Sister Sin" from the Rogue Trader book as inspiration - get rid of the "Catholic church on wheels" look and more towards a fast, sleek, fanatical lawbringer army with Judge Dredd overtones and healthy taste for prometheum and explosives.

Make the game fun to play again. I guess that's rules, but right now I'm not feeling it.

I see a lot of good ideas here for removing dumb designs like Centurions and whatnot.

I'd take that one step further and go to an extreme here and say remove the 'heroic scale' BS. Redesign EVERYTHING so that they have real human proportions instead of giant fists and feet.

Remove the Tyranids. Ugly models, awful fluff, just get rid of them and put them out of their misery.

I'd like them to stop murdering the fluff with hack writers. There's a galaxy with a million or more worlds to base stories on and here's the Black Library butchering fluff that's been perfectly fine for 25 years.

I get that the target audience for this hobby is teenage boys, but some 40k publications directed at a more mature audience would be great.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Ok while I did get some interesting responses, please read the first post. This is NOT a thread about rules or gameplay. This was about pure aesthetic designs of models and things in the fluff. Not gameplay wise.

Sorry! I admit I skimmed the thread and then went on a rant.

If it's aesthetics and fluff we're talking about, there are two problems.

First is the Flanderization of different armies (where they're becoming distorted 1-dimensional caricatures based on a few iconic traits). Space Wolves now have wolf-everything and nonsensical frost weapons. Blood Angels have blood-everything and wings everywhere. Tau get nothing but bigger and bigger Gundams. And so on. This needs to stop.

Second, there's something wrong with GW's design studio. The models they put out look more like toys these days and less like, well, models. Look at the Centurions, the Storm Talon and Storm Raven, the Taurox - fat, chunky, squashed proportions, covered in bling, terrible aesthetics that don't belong in the setting. They look like someone was told "design an aircraft that carries a squad of marines and a dreadnought, but do it so it fits on 3 sprues, make sure a toddler can play with it, and you only have a week".

When GW does something simple like redesign a tactical sprue, they do fine. When they try to cram something new into their bloated setting, it's more hit than miss. The 40k range is looking more and more like GI Joe.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

When GW does something simple like redesign a tactical sprue, they do fine. When they try to cram something new into their bloated setting, it's more hit than miss. The 40k range is looking more and more like GI Joe.

Is that a bad thing? Imperium as GI Joe, Eldar as Cobra, Orks as Dreadnoks, Tau as Transformers?

The only thing I would change about 40k is for GW to hire a competent line editor. That would pretty much fix all my issues.

SJ

I found Marz's post very interesting, i'd like him to extend his thought as I'm not at all a Black Library reader and have stooped looking into WH40K's background for too long to have been able to notice this tend.

And i'd also love to see GW's staff totally restructured and changed as they just can't go on this way. I mean, for us players and/or painters...

Traditio wrote:Eliminate the Tau and Eldar from the game. Remove grav from the game. Remove IKs from the game.

Always entertaining to see you peddling the usual. Have fun

Peregrine wrote:Remove the Tyranids. Ugly models, awful fluff, just get rid of them and put them out of their misery.

I think a greater variety of models as well as a significant improvement to their fluff would be the better option when put against removing them outright. Explore the Hive Mind a little more, differentiate between the major Hive Fleets a bit more (which also coincides with more models), etc etc. GW just need to polish of their apparently very dusty thinking caps and do it.

MarsNZ wrote:I'd like them to stop murdering the fluff with hack writers. There's a galaxy with a million or more worlds to base stories on and here's the Black Library butchering fluff that's been perfectly fine for 25 years.

I get that the target audience for this hobby is teenage boys, but some 40k publications directed at a more mature audience would be great.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's good that they understand where a lot of their market is, but it'd be nice to see them realise that the rest of us form a significant portion of the market as well.


My Thoughts:
Models-Wise: My personal top-of-the-list item is the current Wulfen models. I severely dislike how they've made them look. I look at artwork such as the piece in the spoiler below and then then models, then feel really sad that GW got it wrong haha



Fluff-Wise: As I said above, the Tyranid fluff needs a big fix. They broken, uninteresting, and GW's easy way out if they ever want to destroy the 40K universe (in-fluff).

 IllumiNini wrote:
I think a greater variety of models as well as a significant improvement to their fluff would be the better option when put against removing them outright. Explore the Hive Mind a little more, differentiate between the major Hive Fleets a bit more (which also coincides with more models), etc etc. GW just need to polish of their apparently very dusty thinking caps and do it.

The problem is that the Tyranids are broken on a really fundamental level. All of their fluff nonsense about "absorbing DNA to adapt" and eating to fuel interstellar travel is just painful to read, and even when they aren't suffering from blatant plausibility issues they're by far the most boring faction. They don't have characters, you can't negotiate with them, you can't communicate with them, they're just going to relentlessly attack you until they're all dead or they eat you. They're a mindless force of nature, not characters in a story. And to fix these problems you'd have to scrap all of the existing fluff (along with all of the models, ideally) and invent a whole new faction that just happens to share the name.

 Peregrine wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:
I think a greater variety of models as well as a significant improvement to their fluff would be the better option when put against removing them outright. Explore the Hive Mind a little more, differentiate between the major Hive Fleets a bit more (which also coincides with more models), etc etc. GW just need to polish of their apparently very dusty thinking caps and do it.

The problem is that the Tyranids are broken on a really fundamental level. All of their fluff nonsense about "absorbing DNA to adapt" and eating to fuel interstellar travel is just painful to read, and even when they aren't suffering from blatant plausibility issues they're by far the most boring faction. They don't have characters, you can't negotiate with them, you can't communicate with them, they're just going to relentlessly attack you until they're all dead or they eat you. They're a mindless force of nature, not characters in a story. And to fix these problems you'd have to scrap all of the existing fluff (along with all of the models, ideally) and invent a whole new faction that just happens to share the name.

Well at the end of the day, even if it comes to the Tyranids requiring a complete overhaul, it's still preferable to having the faction removed. There's also a big problem with doing a complete overhaul of the faction which is it affects so many other factions, stories, and events. As a result, I think it'd be better to expand on it rather than overhaul it.

Also, if you completely overhaul the models for the Tyranids, what are people supposed to do with their Tyranid models? Is GW supposed to reimburse them should they ever actually do this? I mean, a complete overhaul of the models is fine in theory and I do hate many of the models, but practically speaking it's an impossibly bad idea.

Brand new release of Sisters of Battle-- plastic poseable models suitable for every infantry unit type. Heads with a variety of hairstyles from the absurd (mohawks for example) to the fairly standard (pixie cuts and such). Less emphasis on the breasts (IE, at the very least, smaller boob-cups). More ornate vehicle designs. Better facial sculpting-- we know they can do it, so they should get to it.

That's without adding new units or really updating rules at all, and IMO it'd breathe new life in to the most neglected faction of 40k.

Sisters have Bobs, not Pixies.

SJ