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 Manchu wrote:
I am so glad I gave up on comics. I have never forgiven Alan Moore for killing Krypto.

Oh, Krypto's death this time is a complete throwaway too. The Eradicator just snuffs him. I guess they just wanted to be rid of the character to reset the post-Crisis status quo? It's always possible Krypto is resurrected, but then I think the Superman universe needs to get over this cycle of deaths and resurrections, no matter how many Jesus Christ allusions there are with the character.


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 Frozocrone wrote:
This may be one of those 'had to cut it for theatrical release' so seems muddled up. I'm more fond of the Ultimate Edition of BvS, when important plot details/background wasn't left out.

I've heard Margot Robbie did brilliantly as Harley Quinn. So glad to hear that, since the comic book counterpart is interesting to read. I was concerned they would just use her as a sex icon while the men filled the screen.

Is Will Smith good as Deadshot? He didn't really stand out to me as an ideal Deadshot in the trailers and was only there because he's A-list material to attract viewers.

I've seen reviews saying Smith is good and this could help inject some new life into his career. But then I've also read reviews saying Robbie isn't a scene-stealer and all her jokes fall flat (even as others say otherwise). Who the @$% knows?

I don't mind a complex, reflective Superman ... but I don't think that's how the character should begin. Let's have a movie that opens with Superman saving the day for the first time. The movie should be told from Lois's POV, as she covers the story and tries to figure out who this Superman is. You could drive the plot from action set piece to action set piece with the dramatic irony of Lois and Clark having a playful relationship; him the buttoned-up nerd reporter and her the vivacious take-no-hostages journalist. The theme would emerge over the course of their interactions that, although she comes no closer to understanding Superman's personality, she does get to know Clark, his worries about his parents back in Kansas, his struggle to figure out what is right when things are not clearly black and white.

 Manchu wrote:
It's no wonder critics and audiences are skeptical of Superman. The studio, the writers, even the actor seems puzzled by the character. Pop culture may just be too grim in tone right now to conceive of, either as as a matter of creation or reception, Superman. Honestly, we do need a Superman to rescue us from all this bleakness in our culture. If someone had the guts to do a colorful, happy, soaring spirit of a Superman picture ...

And yet Captain America. A swirling inhuman lump of American Dreaming and saccharine idealism, an anti-bullying PSA come to life, a being so obnoxiously perfect that even Jesus would hate him just a little bit, yet Marvel managed to do two-and-a-half movies about him, one a WW2 war movie and one a conspiracy thriller, managing to walk the line without delving too far into either po-faced moralizing or mythos-destroying growly-voiced antiheroism, and do it while endearing a character who almost literally walks around draped in the American flag to a global audience.

At some point WB are going to have to stop blaming the current tone of pop culture, audience tastes, or sabotage operations by invisible Moon Nazis and just accept that either their plan or the people they're choosing to execute it don't work for the character.

They're just too content riding on the coattails of the IP. "It's a DC movie, people will come no matter what, just get it out into theaters once it is halfway decent. Make sure there are plenty of awesome scenes to put into trailers. Get the best art department you can. For every dollar we spend on advertising, that's at least $10 we will get back in return, so pump out the ad's as quick as possible".

As opposed to "Hey guys, guess what? We get to make a DC movie...let's make the most !@#$ing kick-ass comic book movie of all time. The hell with the cost, if we do it right fans will pay through the nose to see it time and again before it even leaves the theaters! Let's get a proven team together that has the skill and track-record to knock it out of the park".

Am I going to see it? Yes, but I'm not paying to do so, and I wouldn't see it otherwise. Just grinds my gears...

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
It's no wonder critics and audiences are skeptical of Superman. The studio, the writers, even the actor seems puzzled by the character. Pop culture may just be too grim in tone right now to conceive of, either as as a matter of creation or reception, Superman. Honestly, we do need a Superman to rescue us from all this bleakness in our culture. If someone had the guts to do a colorful, happy, soaring spirit of a Superman picture ...

And yet Captain America. A swirling inhuman lump of American Dreaming and saccharine idealism, an anti-bullying PSA come to life, a being so obnoxiously perfect that even Jesus would hate him just a little bit, yet Marvel managed to do two-and-a-half movies about him, one a WW2 war movie and one a conspiracy thriller, managing to walk the line without delving too far into either po-faced moralizing or mythos-destroying growly-voiced antiheroism, and do it while endearing a character who almost literally walks around draped in the American flag to a global audience.

At some point WB are going to have to stop blaming the current tone of pop culture, audience tastes, or sabotage operations by invisible Moon Nazis and just accept that either their plan or the people they're choosing to execute it don't work for the character.

It's almost as if they had some competent writers and used Captain America's perfectness/morals against him to create complex situations

I don't think you need to tear down Supes to make him interesting. Just let him be mysterious by writing someone else as the audience vehicle character; namely, Lois Lane ... you know, so she doesn't feel utterly superfluous.

Just finished watching it. It's nowhere near as bad as the views are giving it. It did fall apart in the second half a bit but I still really liked it. If you'd like the trailers, I think you're going to like the movie.

So how many Brrrts do you give it?

Ok, just got home.

So, I have no idea why this is rocking 30% on RT.

It's not great, but it's definitely not bad, let alone terrible. I liked it quite a bit, actually. I'd give it maybe a 7/10. I'f have given BvS a 4 if that helps at all.

Margot Robbie stole every scene she was in, obviously.

Will Smith did OK. There was no scene-breaking comedy shoehorned in where it didn't belong like I was afraid of.

Cara Delevingne's character effects looked terrific. I liked her character.

Katana had absolutely no character development and truthfully could have been cut from the film without losing anything.

I'm going to talk about the Joker a bit, so very minor spoilers in terms of his performance, not the plot:



There are parts of the movie that are pretty dark, visually, so I think you might want to avoid this in 3D. In my anecdotal experience, movies not shot in 3d and then converted have a tendency to be too dark; the theater is supposed to adjust this but rarely does.

The worst part is really about 3/4ths through - they try to add in a beat where "all hope seems lost, but our heroes look inside themselves to find the strength to carry on". This makes pretty much no sense because the circumstances immediately prior to this hadn't really changed at all. That felt shoehorned in and not organic at all - if you want to do organic team-building onscreen, do it better.

Killer Croc was a little underwhelming, but I guess the Arkham video games sort of spoiled me on what Killer Croc could be. He did not get as much screentime or character development as I think he warranted.

Definitely was a clear part of the DCU, lots of little cameos. The villains with ties to specific villains, you know who, are just as tired in this as they are in the comics.

No ragrets, probably won't see it in theaters again but will almost certainly watch again at some point.

My wife liked it more than I did, she said she'd go 8/10. She is not a comic book person and wanted to know why Enchantress wasn't still being played by Elizabeth Olsen*. So, if you take someone who doesn't follow comics but likes the trailers, I guess they'll like it too? Based on my sample size of 1 person.

*i had a sad

My biggest problem with this movie is that I kept mixing up Harley and Britta from Community.

I liked Leto's Joker and the interactions with Harley. I think Leto works with the grittiness of the DC films lately (I still like Ledger/Hamill more though).

As for the rest:

You know...I liked BvS. It has it's problems obviously. I can see why it got a lower rating on RT (obviously I disagree with it being that low...)...

1) Redesign of Lex Luthor was almost universally hated, especially by DC comic fans...didn't bother me too much
2) The Tale of Two Marthas (this bothered me...it could have been better written)
3) Underwhelming acting/writing for Lois Lane and Clark/Superman
4) Leaps in character logic and decision making
5) Very poor...I mean this is the #1 issue my brother and I had with it, final act

On the other hand it had

1) Excellent fight scenes (Batman v Goons > Batman v Supes > Doomsday Fight)
2) Best Batman yet (at the very least he was best combination of the Batman and Bruce Wayne identities into a single character)
3) Very solid Wonder Woman

So...going so far as to say it's anything worse than an average film seems to be a stretch. To me it was nowhere near as bad as the abomination that was Iron Man 3, better than Thor 2 (bored me half to death), far better than X3 and at least on par with Iron Man 2/Age of Apocalypse/X-Men (first film) for a mid tier(ish) DC/Marvel flick.



So that said...I have no idea what fething planet the people slamming Suicide Squad are from...I see two actual issues with it.

1) Uninteresting/underdeveloped big bad
2) Underwhelming fight scenes

On 1, the ultimate "big bad" was still better, imo, than the big screen iterations of Phoenix, Doomsday, Apocalypse, Red Skull, The Dark Elf king/emperor (sorry, I don't know his name), the horrible flaming shitstorm of the Mandarin, and probably the main bad from X-Men: First Class as well. Yeah, the big bad didn't have a lot of time to be developed, but I got the key elements from the movie alone

On 2, this bothered me until I thought about it...no one in the movie that is NOT a metahuman/on par with one has anywhere near the HtH skills of Batman. Not even close. . The metahuman/equivalents aren't suggested to have the combat skills of Superman or Wonder Woman...

I didn't see an issue with the overall plot, dialogue was decent to good, some characters in the squad were underdeveloped (namely everyone EXCEPT Harley, Deadshot, and Diablo).

The Joker obviously annoyed some people, but I liked him. He didn't steal any scenes like Ledger did, but this wasn't a Joker movie. Overall, he came across as very weird, but also much more evil than any big screen iteration of the Joker I've seen before.

Harley was good. Will Smith was surprisingly good. I really liked Diablo's character arc and he really is the dark horse of the film.

Honestly, I have a hard time saying this film is anything less than a 7/10...to me it's in between Avengers and Age of Ultron in quality. But lacks the spectacle of both films and the big bad is weaker than in either films.

I think it suffered badly from being overhyped and people are wanting a film, that quite frankly, would be well beyond any comic book adaption we've seen yet...it's a bit insane to me to expect a team of second class villains to show up Avengers, Civil War, Winter Soldier, or Watchman...

Sounds like the Joker plays a more simulate rules to say, The Penguin in Assault on then?

 Ouze wrote:
Just finished watching it. It's nowhere near as bad as the views are giving it. It did fall apart in the second half a bit but I still really liked it. If you'd like the trailers, I think you're going to like the movie.

is there a lot of Harley in it? Thats why the daughter and I are gong-we couldn't give a gak about the rest of them.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Just finished watching it. It's nowhere near as bad as the views are giving it. It did fall apart in the second half a bit but I still really liked it. If you'd like the trailers, I think you're going to like the movie.

is there a lot of Harley in it? Thats why the daughter and I are gong-we couldn't give a gak about the rest of them.

She gets a significant percentage of screentime, probably about as much as Deadshot, and they both get more time than any other characters.

I can't wait for what I imagine is the inevitable Harley spinoff. Even the worst of bad reviews liked Margot Robbie.

 Ouze wrote:

Spoiler:

The Joker isn't a cameo or walk-on as described, more of a minor character - he's not tied into the main plot though. Jared Leto was an OK Joker, but definitely not at all the best one. TBH I think it's going to be very, very difficult to one-up Heath Ledger and he didn't really try, he took him in more of a different direction - think Jack Nicholson's Jack Napier pre-transformation; a gangster who is also a lunatic.

The only thing I really want to touch on here. As much as I love Heath Ledger's Joker, I think Jack Nicholson's doesn't get enough plug. I mean he played a great Joker, funny, offbeat, more of a gangster but still crazy, and I think it fit perfectly. It always bothers me that it's either Hamill or Ledger's Joker, never Nicholson's.

 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait for what I imagine is the inevitable Harley spinoff. Even the worst of bad reviews liked Margot Robbie.

Actually, I read one that said she didn't steal a single scene, and her jokes all fell flat.

It's not like anyone's drinking Haterade to watch down their Hater Tots or anything.

From what I've seen, admittedly only trailers and clips, it looks passable and I'll catch it on disc at some point

I suspect however much like the first X-Men movie, cramming in a lot of new characters, especially ones that are kind of niche even by comic book standards was always going to create a movie that's a hard sell

But then again what do I know about comic book movies, I like the Affleck Daredevil...

You know, it's odd.

When the ghostbusters remake came out, the internet said it was worse than cancer, though critics gave it a decent rating.

And that same internet voice, by and large, have been excited by suicide squad for months now, and critics are saying it's awful.

You generally don't see disparities that large outside of video game reviews, seems like.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
You know, it's odd.

When the ghostbusters remake came out, the internet said it was worse than cancer, though critics gave it a decent rating.

And that same internet voice, by and large, have been excited by suicide squad for months now, and critics are saying it's awful.

You generally don't see disparities that large outside of video game reviews, seems like.

And there are groups of fans trying to petition to shut sown Rotten Tomatoes for their reviews of Suicide Squad as well...

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/suicide-squad-fans-petition-to-shut-down-rotten-tomatoes-following-bad-reviews-a7169446.html

Because that's the reasonable thing.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
You know, it's odd.

When the ghostbusters remake came out, the internet said it was worse than cancer, though critics gave it a decent rating.

And that same internet voice, by and large, have been excited by suicide squad for months now, and critics are saying it's awful.

You generally don't see disparities that large outside of video game reviews, seems like.

Suicide Squad, even if it's garbage, is still a "by the numbers" comic book movie. None of the characters were gender swapped, there were no real mistakes or risky moves barring Leto's Joker, and that has been picked apart by everyone.

Ghostbusters however was built up on the idea of a gender swapped team and thus attracted way more buzz/infamy.

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Just finished watching it. It's nowhere near as bad as the views are giving it. It did fall apart in the second half a bit but I still really liked it. If you'd like the trailers, I think you're going to like the movie.

is there a lot of Harley in it? Thats why the daughter and I are gong-we couldn't give a gak about the rest of them.

She gets a significant percentage of screentime, probably about as much as Deadshot, and they both get more time than any other characters.

I can't wait for what I imagine is the inevitable Harley spinoff. Even the worst of bad reviews liked Margot Robbie.

I think they already greenlit one, actually.

Thanks for the review! That got my hopes back up that it'd be passable - I don't need it to be great any more, just better than Batman vs. Superman. Glad to know Margot Robbie did a good job, Harley's one of my favorite comic characters.

The general consensus from the reviews In read is that it tried to hard to be deadpool and fell flat...

Tim Burton's first Batman is still the high water mark for me. He got Gotham, the look, the feel, and the cathedral scenes at the end were inspired IMO

Trying to make comic book films 'realistic' for me never works...

 trexmeyer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So far, my favorite comic movies this year have been the following order: Deadpool was top dog. Fact. Anyone saying otherwise had blinders on or was biased against him.

You know, I typically do not post here and I only read the very occasional thread that spikes me interest, but after reading your nonsensical gakstorm of a post I felt obliged to reply.

Spoiler:

It is stupefying to me how much utterly inane these two lines of text are...first you pronounce the following your favorite comic films of the year and then proclaim "Deadpool was best! FACT!!!"...an opinion is not a fact. Oh, and of course anyone who disagrees is biased or has "blinders on." In a single fell swoop you denounced every Deadpool detractor as either dumb or in denial. Wow.

Yeah...so apparently the fact my opinion is that a movie with an unlikable lead that has all the wit of a middle school edgelord telling genital jokes during lunch hour is not only a far cry from being the best comic film of the year, but is also essentially limited to being mediocre at absolute best courtesy of its puerile sense of humor, forgettable antagonists, underachieving fight scenes, and horribly dull plot indicates that I am an ignorant sheep porker. Well great. I am glad I learned something new about myself.

On topic, I am not remotely surprised that Suicide Squad is getting slammed. Mildly disappointed, yes, but not surprised. My only concern is that the film will probably need to clear the $400-500 mark in order to be profitable and the fact it lacks a lead character on par with Batman/Superman makes me doubt this will happen...

So, where the hell does the DCEU go from here?

Just to poke a hole about what the issue you had in my post; Deadpool broke numerous box office records, took theaters by storm, wrecked February release numbers, R-rated numbers, and was one of the highest grossing super hero movies so far. So it is actually a fact that it was superior to the rest, according to the numbers. I happen to agree, and think it was the strongest so far. Sorry if you didn't like it; but from what you disliked about it, well, that's who the character has always been; sounds like you hated the character already, and fell into the biased category I listed; you disliked it because you dislike the character. That isn't the movie's fault.

Also where the heck did I say biased or blinders on against the movie made you ignorant or a sheep porker? Those are your words, and nowhere even close to what I said. If you want lodge insults at yourself, go for it, but don't put your words in my mouth.


On topic, hearing reviews on here that SS doesn't deserve the rating and hating it's getting, maybe I'll swing out this weekend to see it. Or maybe Tuesday.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So far, my favorite comic movies this year have been the following order: Deadpool was top dog. Fact. Anyone saying otherwise had blinders on or was biased against him.

You know, I typically do not post here and I only read the very occasional thread that spikes me interest, but after reading your nonsensical gakstorm of a post I felt obliged to reply.

Spoiler:

It is stupefying to me how much utterly inane these two lines of text are...first you pronounce the following your favorite comic films of the year and then proclaim "Deadpool was best! FACT!!!"...an opinion is not a fact. Oh, and of course anyone who disagrees is biased or has "blinders on." In a single fell swoop you denounced every Deadpool detractor as either dumb or in denial. Wow.

Yeah...so apparently the fact my opinion is that a movie with an unlikable lead that has all the wit of a middle school edgelord telling genital jokes during lunch hour is not only a far cry from being the best comic film of the year, but is also essentially limited to being mediocre at absolute best courtesy of its puerile sense of humor, forgettable antagonists, underachieving fight scenes, and horribly dull plot indicates that I am an ignorant sheep porker. Well great. I am glad I learned something new about myself.

On topic, I am not remotely surprised that Suicide Squad is getting slammed. Mildly disappointed, yes, but not surprised. My only concern is that the film will probably need to clear the $400-500 mark in order to be profitable and the fact it lacks a lead character on par with Batman/Superman makes me doubt this will happen...

So, where the hell does the DCEU go from here?

Just to poke a hole about what the issue you had in my post; Deadpool broke numerous box office records, took theaters by storm, wrecked February release numbers, R-rated numbers, and was one of the highest grossing super hero movies so far. So it is actually a fact that it was superior to the rest, according to the numbers. I happen to agree, and think it was the strongest so far. Sorry if you didn't like it; but from what you disliked about it, well, that's who the character has always been; sounds like you hated the character already, and fell into the biased category I listed; you disliked it because you dislike the character. That isn't the movie's fault.


On topic, hearing reviews on here that SS doesn't deserve the rating and hating it's getting, maybe I'll swing out this weekend to see it. Or maybe Tuesday.

Deadpool was quite a success, but it didn't even clear the Top 10. It's at 11, right behind Iron Man. It's the highest grossing R-rated Superhero movie, but I also think that's one of it's selling points. I loved Deadpool, but I kind of have to agree with Trexmeyer in that Deadpool is a total "edgelord" comic book character. Yeah he's zany and wacky, and that's fun for about 15 minutes, but there's not much depth to him. Hell, I got more of a kick out of Colossus and Nega Sonic.

To wrap up, Deadpool was a success and a fun movie, but not the be all end all of comic book movies. It was gold place in a pool of losers.

http://www.the-numbers.com/market/creative-type/Super-Hero

So regarding my earlier points about how certain media outlets are reporting on this film and DC films in general, here's the headline that shows up on the main page of IGN:

Suicide Squad's International Prospects Look Grim

However, when you read the article, the headline changes, and it's only about the film not getting approved for release in China. Which isn't a good thing for the box office, but doesn't quite justify the doommongering headline, especially considering this article from Yahoo:

Box Office: ‘Suicide Squad’ Outpaces ‘Deadpool,’ ‘Guardians’ Overseas, Opens to $8.1 Million

The comic book film pulled in a healthy $8.1 million from seven international markets, including a hefty $2.9 million in its opening day in South Korea and a sizable $2.7 million from its launch in France. The results outpace other hits such as “Guardians of the Galaxy” and “Deadpool.”

“Suicide Squad” is expected to open to more than $100 million overseas this weekend when it rolls out across 57 markets, including such major territories as the U.K. and Mexico. The film opens Thursday in Russia, Australia, and Brazil. Domestically, “Suicide Squad” is on track to open to more than $125 million, setting a new record for an August debut.

So yeah, I think spreading DCEU misery must be good for business.

 gorgon wrote:
So regarding my earlier points about how certain media outlets are reporting on this film and DC films in general, here's the headline that shows up on the main page of IGN:

Suicide Squad's International Prospects Look Grim

However, when you read the article, the headline changes, and it's only about the film not getting approved for release in China. Which isn't a good thing for the box office, but doesn't quite justify the doommongering headline, especially considering this article from Yahoo:

Box Office: ‘Suicide Squad’ Outpaces ‘Deadpool,’ ‘Guardians’ Overseas, Opens to $8.1 Million

The comic book film pulled in a healthy $8.1 million from seven international markets, including a hefty $2.9 million in its opening day in South Korea and a sizable $2.7 million from its launch in France. The results outpace other hits such as “Guardians of the Galaxy” and “Deadpool.”

“Suicide Squad” is expected to open to more than $100 million overseas this weekend when it rolls out across 57 markets, including such major territories as the U.K. and Mexico. The film opens Thursday in Russia, Australia, and Brazil. Domestically, “Suicide Squad” is on track to open to more than $125 million, setting a new record for an August debut.

So yeah, I think spreading DCEU misery must be good for business.

I wouldn't say it's entirely aimed at DCEU. Clickbait sells articles/clicks, so doom and gloom is the way to go.

I feel as a culture we are too hung-up on "reviews".

It is an industry of it's own that is not lacking in controversy (gamergate was a nightmare unto itself).
I feel it is at it's best saving us from the quick "cash grab" movies we used to have.
You swear they figured they would get the money they need from the poor saps on the first week of release.
We pretty much get to know before the first movie ended what it is all about these days.

If you like that genre of movie, you will go see that darn movie "27%" or not.
I do admit I find RT pretty accurate for me on their scoring so I am ready to "brace for impact" on this one.
The good thing is I can go in without huge expectations, possibly be pleasantly surprised.

I am curious to see what particular elements would be good and what bits bad.
Gaming all day tomorrow so not sure when I will get to see this... gosh-darn.

 Talizvar wrote:
I feel as a culture we are too hung-up on "reviews".

It is an industry of it's own that is not lacking in controversy (gamergate was a nightmare unto itself).
I feel it is at it's best saving us from the quick "cash grab" movies we used to have.
You swear they figured they would get the money they need from the poor saps on the first week of release.
We pretty much get to know before the first movie ended what it is all about these days.

If you like that genre of movie, you will go see that darn movie "27%" or not.
I do admit I find RT pretty accurate for me on their scoring so I am ready to "brace for impact" on this one.
The good thing is I can go in without huge expectations, possibly be pleasantly surprised.

I am curious to see what particular elements would be good and what bits bad.
Gaming all day tomorrow so not sure when I will get to see this... gosh-darn.

I disagree. In an age where free time i being ever more sold, having reviews ahead of time saves people the burns of buying/seeing something gakky at full price. Anymore, anytime reviews are restricted until day of is usually a sign it's going to suck. Same goes for movies, games, music.

With a character called Enchantress and the craziness involved herein, of course it's not going to be approved Chinese markets.

I saw it today. It has some moments of brilliance shatter shot throughout a uneven mediocre story. I felt the villain of the movie was uninteresting. And Unfortunately I was disappointed with Harley and Waller.

I did like Katana and Captain Boomerang. Deadshot was pretty good as well.

Not really sure about how I feel about Jared Leto's Joker. He definitely gave it his all. I just don't know whether I liked it or not.



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I just realized the two characters I liked the most had the least screen time. lol