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I took...
Household detachment: 1 Atrapos, 1 Paladin and 1 Errant, all basic.
Null maiden task force: 2 * 5 girl Prosecutor squads each with a null maiden rhino DT with an HK
LOW: Robute Guilliman (my warlord)

He took... (i don't know what detachment gubbins he was rolling from memory)
A smashfucker-type in cataphactii terminator armour with chainfist and a relic chilling in a drop pod with a multi-melta dev squad and a trio of librarians (all ML3ML2)
An attack bike with multi-melta
Two tactical squads with meltaguns in TL las razorbacks
A techmarine with servo-harness etc
3 vindicators
Imperial knight Errant

The relic was from the book rowboats new rules are in and he was able to add 4 to his seize the initiative roll.
All his librarians got good psychic powers on the technomancy table (all of them could try to comandeer a vehicles weapon etc)
Hammer and anvil deployment.

i deployed first - errant on the left, paladin on the right, atrapos front all within 12" of pappa smurf who stands behind the atrapos
Null-maiden rhinos sit behind the other two knights
He hid his stuff in cover despite being pretty much assured to 'seize'


He does seize and drop melta/drop technomancy/chainfist HQ warlord librarian combo comes in turn one - because of the 21" radius bubble he has to drop in front of my knights because the base of the knights are more than three inches across, which allowed him to stand the librarians in a line exactly 18" away from the knight while still being just outside of the null feild.
So he managed to fire my Atrapos's Graviton singularity cannon at my knight errant and the null-rhino behind it and rolled a six which turned it into a vortex.
Luckily it scattered so it was only clipping the rhino and he rolled a 1 on the D chart
He managed to take out the other rhino and sisters squad behind the Paladin before realizing he was out of range of anything with his vindicators.

I moved the knights forward and moved the remaining null-rhino toward the enemy librarian location.
The paladin leveled everything at the units from the pod, removing some multi-meltas and charged the warlord/dev/librarian unit. It had 4 hull points left at the end of combat
The Atrapos did a similar thing to the enemy Knight Errant but failed the charge. It nearly killed the enemy warlord with the Atrapos Lascutter (rolled a 6 on the D-chart) but one of the multi-melta heavies 'look out sir'-ed the shot and got gassified.
My Knight Errant shot at a pair of vindicators hiding behind a ruin but the shot scattered over just one stunning it and heavy stubbering the techmarine to no effect.
Rowboat moved forward and shot at the enemy HQ before charges were made and failed his charge.


The Atrapos resisted three attempts to comandeer his singularity cannon.
He moved his vindicators back into cover further away from my Errant and didn't damage it with shooting (ion sheild working well)
His Errant shot stubbers at my atrapos and thermal cannon at my Errant taking a hull point off it before charging the Atrapos.
A huge CLANG signals that the enemy Errant has taken a HP off the Atrapos by running into it (Hammer of Wrath)


Memory goes fuzzy here...


The combat between the Atrapos and the enemy Errant leaves the atrapos with 4HP and the Errant with 5HP
The paladin manages to get three stomps causing lots of damage but no sixes on the chart leaving it in combat with the enemy warlord, two multi-melta dudes and the three librarians who now have one wound left each

My turn i move the errant forward and round terrain to shoot and fail the charge on the vindicators
The sisters get out of their rhino to cap objectives in my DZ (i was still in 30k 6th edition mode)
Rowboat moves forward toward the objective which is under My Paladins ongoing CC and fails the charge to join in
The Atrapos and enemy Errant continue slugging each other down to 2HP and 3HP respectively and stay in CC
The Paladin manages to stomp the crap out of the librarians killing two and bringing the eternal warrior enemy warlord down to 1 wound - however it now has 2HP left..

His next turn he reversed the two vindicators to the front arc of my Errant into the cover of a ruin and the last vindicator tried to move through terrain and immobilized itself (despite having a seige sheild/dozer blade/whatever it was) leaving it stuck behind a building - he tried to move the techmarine into base contact with it but couldn't quite make the trek.
He moved forward and disembarked the troops from the razorbacks (they had been hidden in a ruin from the start) to move forward to an objective he wanted
The Atrapos-Errant CC continued (the Atrapos took two hull points off the enemy Errant)
The Paladins CC continued but the enemy warlord brought him down to a single HP remaining - the stomps did good and took out the last librarian on the table but not the enemy warlord who then got a wound back through IWND

In my turn i moved the Errant forward and shot at the pair of vindicators which scattered to cover one of them and the techmarine which did a wound on the techmarine.
the sisters moved to get an angle on the troop unit moving up the middle with their bolters and took one out
Rowboat moved backwards (he was stood inbetween two Imperial Knights with 1HP each) and fired at the troop unit in the centre finishing them off
The Atrapos finished off the enemy Errant; it staggered back and blew up taking a HP off the drop pod and killing a marine from a troop unit and narrowly missing the ongoing CC with my Paladin and enemy warlord - the return hits left the Atrapos on 1HP.
The Paladin had a turn of handbags with the enemy warlord.

His turn 4 he moved the pair of vindicators into a separate arc from the other vindicator and techmarine who all shot at the Errant leaving it on 4HP
he moved one of the razorbacks back to cap an objective he wanted leaving the troops advancing through ruins toward the objective my Paladin was next to.
Both razorbacks shot at the Atrapos and got his final HP - it staggered sideways into the ongoing CC with the Paladin and enemy warlord; the resulting catastrophic explosion brought the enemy warlord back down to one wound, wounded Girlyman and took the last hull point off my Paladin which went properly nuclear, vapourising the enemy warlord, taking a hull point of the drop pod

In my turn 4 i moved my Errant forward, who missed with all its shooting attacks and failed to charge the vindicators.
I moved rowboat forward again to get near an objective but didn't have the movement to get there so he shot the drop pod that was by the objective and wrecked it.
the sisters moved back to an objective marker in the centre of the table in my DZ and the null-rhino started moving up the left side of the table toward a different objective (i had scored the one centre-rear)

His next turn (5) saw the pair of vindicators move down my left flank round the side of my Knight Errant keeping to a different arc than the razorbacks, techmarine and last vindicator - they all shot at it:the final hull point was done by the techmarine in the side arc with his plasma-cutter - the Knight staggered forward into the techmarine and vindicator and exploded which caused a crew shaken result and a 2+ armour save.
His attack bike appeared from a ruin and zipped forward to hide from sight and claim an objective in the middle of the table
The razorbacks and remaining troop unit moved to sit on the objective girlyman was heading toward - razorbck on the objective and troops lumped between it and Robot Girlyman.


My turn 5 and the sisters moved slightly away from the centre objective in my DZ (still in 3" though) so two of them could get an angle on the attack bike and they killed it with those two shots!
Girlyman moved back to cover the objective on the right of my DZ and shot at the enemy troop unit to no effect and failed the charge (it was a 12" charge to be fair - it is a bit desperate at this point)
The null-rhino reached the left side objective and stayed in cover because it didn't have range to anything it could hurt

His turn 6 and the game continues
He moved his vindicator pair forward as fast as possible (didn't shoot with them either) very close to the objective my null-rhino was on and into terrain - one of them gets snake-eyes and immobilises itself just outside of the objective - enemy shooting is coversaved by the rhino. the other vindicator joined one of the razorbacks moving forward toward the centre of the table.
The enemy troops and their razorback shoot at Pappa Smurf and bring him to 3 wounds remaining.

My turn 6, i move the rhino to ram the mobile vindicator doing nothing but a hull point on my null-rhino.
I spread out the sisters to avoid the templates of death just in case.
I move Robot Jellyman toward the troops and razorback because i realize that if i can get rid of them both then i could get a VP for it; at this point i'm informed that single model units can't multi-charge, Then we realize that those troops are not actually within 3" of the objective so i shoot at the razorback thinking i will charge it to get Rowboater closer to that objective, but the shots destroy the razorback.
I discard the card which rewards that objective capture in hope of drawing a better one.

At this point i feth up and draw another objective card - i was supposed to wait till my turn and it causes a tense situation...

The game continues!

In his turn 7 he moves the mobile one of the pair of vindicators to a position where it can move flat out into my DZ- my rhino is blocking the route for him so it becomes target priority for the immobilized vindicator who, crucially does not destroy it, stopping him getting line breaker by going flat out with the mobile one.
At this point he clocks that he clocks that the last objective card i have is for the one on the right side of the board in my DZ and if i get it the game is tied - he moves all his troops and razorbacks to take shots at my sisters squad which he notices are the only models able to get to that objective - crucially the vindicators cant see the sisters and they make every coversave they get asked to (5+!).
The mobile vindicator on my left flank shoots at the null-rhino wrecking it.
He then uses the lone vindicator in the centre to try to tankshock Girlyman knowing that the forced movement Rowboat has to make will take him outside of being able to get to the objective on my card, which he does.


My turn 7 and final turn (7VPs to 6 in his favour)
The draw is certain at this point; my opponent has already worked that out but we do the dice rolls to see how close it was...
I move the sisters toward the objective and they are 4" away, as my opponent already knows a 1" run will do it.

And i rolled a 1.

There was only one sister within 3" of the objective so if i had failed ANY of their previous turns 5+ coversaves i would have lost.

Same with the last null-rhino, if that had blown up from the first vindicator shot (which it nearly did...) then he would have won too...




I went into this game with assumptions and walked away from it having realized where the guy was coming from - he likes the tournament scene and the competitive atmosphere that goes with it and the fluff-centred meta we have at our FLGS (Atlantic Games, Stroud. run by my mate Seb) can't really prepare you for a proper competitive tournament, hence why he goads people a bit; i realize thats him fishing for tournament practice level games, not having a huge reputation to defend - the reputation is a by-product of needing tournament level practice in a fluffy meta.


A wise dude said "To truly know ones opponent, one must have fought them"

Yeah, that keeps on being true.

My biggest Fail? not using the null-rhino HKs and not using all the points available to me - i could have got another squad of sisters if i had dropped the HKs. they would have been useful, but i wonder if the pod would have appeared behind my knights i had a bigger null-feild.

If the guy wants to play tournament competitive games, then he should just be upfront in asking for a tournament game according to whatever tournament rules are out there.

Yeah, i absolutely agree - we had a chat about that sort of game and he's met another guy who is down with his ambitions. (i think he is up front if he wants tourney practice but this was a weird cheesing-it-up challenge)

I was just having a think about the players in the area and i recon i'm the only person around here that can field a Imperial Knight army - do you get many IK lists on the ol' tourney scene?

It's not a cheesing-up challenge if he tells you which army to bring, particularly when that army has so few options. It's not like you brought "Space Marines" which could mean anything from Gladius to Bark Bark to Smashfether to Superfriends...

I don't follow the tournament scene, but I don't think IKTs are dominant there. They're a corner case that will catch some unprepared armies offguard.

If he really wanted a challenge, he should have given you his Tournament list when he asked.

Good point, i'll suggest it next time i see him - by that logic he can't afford not to!

Plus, now someone has broken his winning streak

Back when I was really playing a lot, I used to ask my opponents which of my armies they wanted me to bring.

How the heck did he get a +4 to his Seize?

I think it was to do with a warlord trait or something?
I think it was in the book Rowboats rules were in.

He did show me the entry and the wording at the time so it is legit.


@ JohnHwangDD wow, that's commitment to a challenge!

 SirDonlad wrote:
I think it was to do with a warlord trait or something?
I think it was in the book Rowboats rules were in.

He did show me the entry and the wording at the time so it is legit.


@ JohnHwangDD wow, that's commitment to a challenge!

I have the book and can't find that anywhere. I'd really like to see a citation on that. (If for no other reason than I can steal the tactic!)

No worries, it seems i mistook which book - i'll ask him to show it me again next wednesday and PM you with it.

I can think of one way to do it (with a 3+ rerollable, no less,) but you need to take about 500pts of Space Wolves, Coteaz, and roll the right Warlord Trait.

IIRC, it's one of the warlord traits.

As for the list tailoring against knights, well, to be fair, Knight armies are kinda boring to fight against usually. Either you don't have enough anti tank to wreck them before they kill everything that can realistically hurt them and you then try to run out the clock while removing models with no way to retaliate or you do have sufficient anti tank and the knights get smoked before they can kill off the things that can hurt them with not much inbetween.

On the other hand, if you're looking for tourney practice against a knight list, you probably shouldn't be taking a tailored anti knight list (though that list is hardly anti-knight exclusive). I also suspect that there might have been some shenanigans going on with the description of the psy powers used given that SM libbys who aren't Tiggy nor have the bones of Osrak can't be ML3, nor can the same unit attempt to cast the same power more than once, so if it's not your memory being fuzzy, I strongly suggest that you pay very close attention to his psychic phase next game (if there is one).

As for IK's in tourneys, they are a solid mid-ground stomper that will be unable to hack it at the top tables where the real competative lists play. They're a hard counter to some armies and get hard countered by others but overall, they're one of the things a competative list needs to consider if they want to be at the pointy end of the field, so if your list can't handle a knight or at least have a chance against a knight army, you probably need to go back to the drawing board.

As you've no doubt noticed, playing a knight army (even moreso with a pure knight army) isn't as simple as run at thing --> chop into pieces --> repeat like some people expect an army of 5 superheavies to play like as there are numerous tricks to hurting them either via attacking around their shield [fire dragons out of a serpent who then run and shoot is a classic, as is psychic powers since they come before you can reposition your shield], bypassing AV [gauss, haywire, grav etc], tarpitting with cheap 3+ save units [knights hate tactical marines with a passion], extreme MSU [gladius, DE boats chaos warband etc], Psychic power Shenanigans [snap firing weapons, gets hot on the gatling cannon, invis, boosted cover or invul saves etc] or just straight up beating them to death with things like Thundercav/WK's/Wraiths/D-Thirsters/chainfist termies/killsaw meganobs[insert unit here with lots of high str attacks] since you don't get a save in CC and even AV13 doesn't mean much these days.

Good job on the draw though, solid effort.

How was he able to cast Technomacy on one of your Knights with all that Null Maiden coverage?

SJ

He dropped his pod on my right side about a foot away from the front of my Paladin and moved his librarians into a line just inside the 18" range of the technomancy - because the sisters were on the other side of the Knights base, their 21" didn't reach due to their rhino having straight sides and the knight base being more than 3" across at its narrowest point.
In his first turn after using technomancy to have a pop at the sisters behined my Errant with my own weaponry, he focussed every weapon he had on the rhino and sisters squad that was on the right (nearest his librarians) which dropped the range for turn 2.

So, ironically, the null feild never actually nullified anything! But it did make him plonk his warlord and major threat in front of my knights and in charge distance for a turn 1 assault.

I've been wondering if taking a third sisters squad with my leftover points and unused HKs would have helped, but i think he probably wouldn't have placed his pod so handy for me to assault if i had. I recon it would have appeared in my DZ to have me fighting on two fronts, having to pick what i want sheilding from.

edit: thanks drasius! It was a very tough game - and it lasted 4 hours! It is also entirely possible that i'm wrong and they were ml2 - i have absolute confidence that the guys list was completely legit

PSYCHIC ABOMINATION
Any blessing or malediction psychic powers affecting a unit are immediately nullified if the unit moves within 12" of a model with this special rule or vice versa.

Your Knight was within the effect radius of Psychic Abomination, the Malediction would have automatically failed.

SJ

Wait-how did he have so many ML 3 Psykers? Space marines only go up to ML 2, excepting Tigirius.

JNAProductions wrote:Wait-how did he have so many ML 3 Psykers? Space marines only go up to ML 2, excepting Tigirius.

I was wrong - it was three ML2 librarians; he kept getting sixes for warp charge dice numbers and used three dice when summoning powers for each psyker.
I got confused because i've always hated psycic gubbins and ignore them as much as possible.

jeffersonian000 wrote:

PSYCHIC ABOMINATION
Any blessing or malediction psychic powers affecting a unit are immediately nullified if the unit moves within 12" of a model with this special rule or vice versa.

Your Knight was within the effect radius of Psychic Abomination, the Malediction would have automatically failed.

SJ

.....



...wait...

Why am I not surprised?