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 ross-128 wrote:
What's going to be really difficult is planning for scenarios where I've got second turn vs nids, since that will limit my ability to preemptively snipe problem units, and I won't be able to deploy my screening units as far forward so I'll have less room for falling back. Though I guess if I have a list that can be flexible about reserves, maybe I could just reserve and outflank a bunch of stuff when I get second turn.

Well with 6" less between armies most likely(I suspect 18" gap between armies in standard scenarios) you do have 3" more to fall back if that helps




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyran wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Eh, I'm not seeing much reason take Hormagaunts over Stealers, except maybe as screening (of course, if the game doesn't do "intervening models" cover, that's out).

Genestealers look primed to take on most anything and everything. Even if they wound T8+ on 6s, that still triggers Rend. Combined with 4 attacks a pop in large units, and it could well be reasonable to see them attritioning down Knights by themselves.

Weird.

Hormagaunts are probably far cheaper and have more attacks per cost, making them better at killing light infantry.

And since they are cheap you can make cheaply nice congo lines giving you big broods of fearless hormagaunts while synapse is far far far back in safety.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

J Mac wrote:
They didn't really say anything about their ranged weapons. Given how much better they became in close combat, is it unreasonable to assume we'll see a nerf to their shooting?

Also, given now that we've seen synapse mechanics, how will ATSKNF work? (I've been out all of 7th, so excuse me if ATSKNF isn't a thing anymore)

Marine focus next apparently - I think it will just be Leadership is not modifed by losses.

Eh that would basically be fearless. Can't roll 8 or more to overcome basic LD of 7 without modifiers.

 Traditio wrote:
"Nobody is immune to morale," they said!

you, GW!

You just need to shoot the big ones and the rest of nids will be confused, run etc. It is fluffy.

 Traditio wrote:
"Nobody is immune to morale," they said!

you, GW!

What's with you and cursing so much lately? Also they aren't, they just have a conditional.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:What's with you and cursing so much lately? Also they aren't, they just have a conditional.

Because I had such high hopes for 8th edition and GW is utterly crushing them with these recent sneak peaks.

It is causing me such raeg!

Calm down man, it's just a game of toy soldiers .
It's a bit early to rage that it's OP or anything. I must admit I'm a bit sad it's outright immunity, but it'll most likely be balanced out by the fact that without Synapse most bugs will dissolve from Morale.

 ross-128 wrote:
Honestly, synapse granting Fearless is entirely reasonable.

I'm more worried about the 'nids sheer speed combined with how they are utter blenders in melee. Appropriate for the faction of course, but they are going to be difficult to address since they are traits that pretty much hard-counter an IG gunline (by getting there before it can shoot, and decimating it before it can fall back).

Flamethrowers will help by providing good overwatch of course. Getting first turn will also help a lot, since that might give me a chance to snipe out the Swarmlord with AT and remove all his buffs before the 'nid player can use them.

What's going to be really difficult is planning for scenarios where I've got second turn vs nids, since that will limit my ability to preemptively snipe problem units, and I won't be able to deploy my screening units as far forward so I'll have less room for falling back. Though I guess if I have a list that can be flexible about reserves, maybe I could just reserve and outflank a bunch of stuff when I get second turn.

Why are you deploying far enough up the table to allow him to first round charge? 16+2D6 inches is 23 average. For every inch farther back you deploy, there's a considerably higher risk for him that he'll blow the charge. Even his Trygon and its burrowing unit will have a tough 9" charge to make to hit you first round.

 Traditio wrote:
"Nobody is immune to morale," they said!

you, GW!

and Tyranids AREN'T but they, like everyone else are going to use units that can provide bubbles that buff it. you think tyranids are gonna be unique there? commisars and preists for IG will do much the same. meanwhile I expect space Marine Chaplains to provide a similer "Fearless bubble" to space marines. etc. what does this mean? Take snipers and gank those buffers first.

 Traditio wrote:
"Nobody is immune to morale," they said!

you, GW!

in the morale artikel they said this:

The new Morale phase is simple, and only happens once per player turn, at the end of all your other phases. It will apply to almost every unit, and represents warriors fleeing the battlefield, dying from the psychic feedback shockwaves of their allies, or retreating with injured or fallen brethren. There will be very few units indeed that will not feel its effects.

so we knew there will be exceptions. for example single model units who will not feel the effect.

nordsturmking wrote:so we knew there will be exceptions. for example single model units who will not feel the effect.

Because, apparently, an entire army counts as a exception.

GW!

 Traditio wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:so we knew there will be exceptions. for example single model units who will not feel the effect.

Because, apparently, an entire army counts as a exception.

GW!

yet again, we knew there would be units that buffed armies in that regard too. tyranids in synapse range being fearless makes absolute sense. pull your head out of your rectum. chances are EVERY army is gonna have "bubble specialists" to some degree or another. I'd not be too suprised, for example, to see chapalins provide a fearless bubble to marines. assuming that marines are impacted by it at all. we know "know no fear" is a thing.

Welcome back to the Traditio-Overreacts-To-Information-As-He-Has-Understood-It Show!

Let's see what else he can misunderstand or overreact to before we have even heard of a tenth of the rules of the game!

I think we should calm down. And wait until we see the full rules.

Reading the article again gave me a thought. It said that genestealers can charge after advancing, which is part of movement. With the Swarmlord can they move+advance in movement, then using Swarmy's ability move+advance in shooting, then assault? If so, 16+4d6 (40" lol) threat range is bananas. Chocolate covered bananas. Deep fried chocolate covered banana Twinkies.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Reading the article again gave me a thought. It said that genestealers can charge after advancing, which is part of movement. With the Swarmlord can they move+advance in movement, then using Swarmy's ability move+advance in shooting, then assault? If so, 16+4d6 (40" lol) threat range is bananas. Chocolate covered bananas. Deep fried chocolate covered banana Twinkies.

I don't think they'd be so gleeful about the crazy charge range of 8+8+2D6 if that was the case.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd not be too suprised, for example, to see chapalins provide a fearless bubble to marines. assuming that marines are impacted by it at all. we know "know no fear" is a thing.

I have a feeling this is one of those cases where it's okay for Marines to do it because it's "fluffy" but it can't possibly be okay for any other army in the game no matter the circumstance, even if it is also "fluffy", because it's broken.

"A Tactical Marine costs 13 points" etc., etc...

Anyway I think it all sounds good, it's exactly the kind of thing Tyranids needed to get away from Flyrant spam (almost literally the only viable thing in the existing book). Everything's going to be faster, more durable, and hit like a god damn monster, as it should. I'm assuming there will be some detriment to being out of synapse range to balance out the benefit of being within range, as always. It wouldn't make much sense and would just needlessly punish Tyranid players if they were forced to constantly support the entire army with other units just for it to function at all, and they got nothing in exchange for it. One might even argue that simply ignoring morale isn't enough, but like I said it sounds pretty good so far.

If whatever is providing synapse for that immunity bubble has under 10 wounds it does allow it to hide pretty nicely in horde units which will make the best of it.


Nice thing about that is the boost they gave snipers so I think for this sort of reason we're going to see more of those in play again which is pretty cool.

 n0t_u wrote:
If whatever is providing synapse for that immunity bubble has under 10 wounds it does allow it to hide pretty nicely in horde units which will make the best of it.

#Raeg


Seriously, though, do you think that warriors are going to be characters?

If warriors are characters, then it, I'm done.

this mother game.

 n0t_u wrote:
If whatever is providing synapse for that immunity bubble has under 10 wounds it does allow it to hide pretty nicely in horde units which will make the best of it.

Spoiler:

obvious Traditio bait

Nice thing about that is the boost they gave snipers so I think for this sort of reason we're going to see more of those in play again which is pretty cool.

That only applies to characters though, and given that the Swarmlord has 12 wounds, that doesn't leave much.

Hive Tyrants and Swarmlord: 12 wounds, and a Monster
Tervigons: Has 6 in 7th, maybe as much 15 or 18, enough to be a Large Model, and a Monster
Trygon Prime: Definitely more that 12 wounds, and a Monster
Tyranid Warriors and Shrikes: Not Characters
Zoanthropes: Not characters
Maleceptor: Not a character but probably more than 10 wounds and a Monster so no dice
Tyranid Prime: Character and likely 6 or 7 wounds max. This would be the sole Independent Character as well so it works fine for fitting in/

 Traditio wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
If whatever is providing synapse for that immunity bubble has under 10 wounds it does allow it to hide pretty nicely in horde units which will make the best of it.

#Raeg


Seriously, though, do you think that warriors are going to be characters?

If warriors are characters, I'm done.

this game.

Nah
Tyranid prime is a warrior character though.

Hey the Prime might actually become good!

I'm no Tyranid expert, but isn't the Tyranid Prime the only current Independent Character they have? Every other Synapse Option is a unit or Monstrous Creature.

They mentioned in the characters article that Tyrant and Hive Guard are going to be able to soak wounds for tyranid monsters. So any list you see a tyrant in, youy will likely see a unit of guard.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm no Tyranid expert, but isn't the Tyranid Prime the only current Independent Character they have? Every other Synapse Option is a unit or Monstrous Creature.

After the Parasite of Mortrex was ditched, yes it was the lone model with Independent Character, although the Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard's Shieldwall Rule let it do the same for that unit but it couldn't leave again.


Who knows, maybe the Parasite will return in the new edition.

So except for the Prime, every Synapse unit will be targetable at range. I guess we'll have to fight Tyranids the fluffly way and target their Synapse so that the army falls apart without it.

 alextroy wrote:
So except for the Prime, every Synapse unit will be targetable at range. I guess we'll have to fight Tyranids the fluffly way and target their Synapse so that the army falls apart without it.

It does sound a good set of rule interactions that fits nicely with the fluff Best of both worlds.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Shrikes to be gone. They technically don't have a model - only an upgrade pack for the warriors (which is not being sold on the Forgeworld website any longer).

They can be a new double kit with Raveners.

Actually, I went ahead and sent GW a text over Facebook. Shrikes are going to be grandfathered in. According to them, the conversion kit was relatively recent, so they are in no danger of being discontinued. Getting Rippers directly from GW rather than FW on the other hand...they had no comment. >.>

 Mr Morden wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
So except for the Prime, every Synapse unit will be targetable at range. I guess we'll have to fight Tyranids the fluffly way and target their Synapse so that the army falls apart without it.

It does sound a good set of rule interactions that fits nicely with the fluff Best of both worlds.

My hope is this. IIRC in 3rd Ed, there was a rule called Shoot the Big Ones! that let you target Synapse even if not the nearest unit. That's been gone from 4th Ed so I'm hoping that this occurs in 8th. I'm also hoping that just like in the fluff, shooting the synapse is a risky proposition if there is a unit of other stuff closer, as you might kill the Synapse and cause the horde to break and tear itself apart, or you might fail and get ripped to pieces. Its also not especially useful against single-model units. For example, killing off the Warriors might save your from multiple large Hormagaunts as they just collapse under the Morale test, but that Carnifex doesn't need to take Break tests and will still bulldoze you.


Note 1: I'm really hoping Carnifexes become good again, the living engine of destruction they are meant to be, and can happily tear apart most units with ease in melee, from Dreadnoughts to Wraithlords. I'd like to see a full Brood of three capable of taking down even Knights and Wraithknights.

Note 2: This will mark the first time that Nids didn't receive updated rules for the edition since 2nd Ed: They have had a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Ed Codex, and will get 8th Ed rules, but no 7th Ed.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
So except for the Prime, every Synapse unit will be targetable at range. I guess we'll have to fight Tyranids the fluffly way and target their Synapse so that the army falls apart without it.

It does sound a good set of rule interactions that fits nicely with the fluff Best of both worlds.

My hope is this. IIRC in 3rd Ed, there was a rule called Shoot the Big Ones! that let you target Synapse even if not the nearest unit. That's been gone from 4th Ed so I'm hoping that this occurs in 8th. I'm also hoping that just like in the fluff, shooting the synapse is a risky proposition if there is a unit of other stuff closer, as you might kill the Synapse and cause the horde to break and tear itself apart, or you might fail and get ripped to pieces. Its also not especially useful against single-model units. For example, killing off the Warriors might save your from multiple large Hormagaunts as they just collapse under the Morale test, but that Carnifex doesn't need to take Break tests and will still bulldoze you.


Note 1: I'm really hoping Carnifexes become good again, the living engine of destruction they are meant to be, and can happily tear apart most units with ease in melee, from Dreadnoughts to Wraithlords. I'd like to see a full Brood of three capable of taking down even Knights and Wraithknights.

Note 2: This will mark the first time that Nids didn't receive updated rules for the edition since 2nd Ed: They have had a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Ed Codex, and will get 8th Ed rules, but no 7th Ed.

Technically the 6th ed codex was an update in anticipation of 7th. Which is sad that it came out and the Developers didn't fix shadow in the warp from from something which was worthless into something 7th ed ready. It was only...what, 3 months early? They should have held it for a same day release with 7th with updated rules that were current. Instead, we got DLC.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
So except for the Prime, every Synapse unit will be targetable at range. I guess we'll have to fight Tyranids the fluffly way and target their Synapse so that the army falls apart without it.

It does sound a good set of rule interactions that fits nicely with the fluff Best of both worlds.

My hope is this. IIRC in 3rd Ed, there was a rule called Shoot the Big Ones! that let you target Synapse even if not the nearest unit. That's been gone from 4th Ed so I'm hoping that this occurs in 8th. I'm also hoping that just like in the fluff, shooting the synapse is a risky proposition if there is a unit of other stuff closer, as you might kill the Synapse and cause the horde to break and tear itself apart, or you might fail and get ripped to pieces. Its also not especially useful against single-model units. For example, killing off the Warriors might save your from multiple large Hormagaunts as they just collapse under the Morale test, but that Carnifex doesn't need to take Break tests and will still bulldoze you.


Note 1: I'm really hoping Carnifexes become good again, the living engine of destruction they are meant to be, and can happily tear apart most units with ease in melee, from Dreadnoughts to Wraithlords. I'd like to see a full Brood of three capable of taking down even Knights and Wraithknights.

Note 2: This will mark the first time that Nids didn't receive updated rules for the edition since 2nd Ed: They have had a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Ed Codex, and will get 8th Ed rules, but no 7th Ed.

Technically the 6th ed codex was an update in anticipation of 7th. Which is sad that it came out and the Developers didn't fix shadow in the warp from from something which was worthless into something 7th ed ready. It was only...what, 3 months early? They should have held it for a same day release with 7th with updated rules that were current. Instead, we got DLC.

It was still a 6th Ed Codex, so technically it was a 6th Ed codex. It may have been an update for 7th but didn't use any of the same design or writing as 7th Ed. So 7th is the only edition Tyranids didn't get a full update.

lol Traditio is trying to find any reason to be angry with 8th

He just wants his 7th net list to be good still