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BrianDavion wrote:
are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?

No. But they didn't mention it one way or the other. If it was dead they could have said so with a single sentence.

 Lance845 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?

No. But they didn't mention it one way or the other. If it was dead they could have said so with a single sentence.

doesn't mean they would have, I could see instinctive behavior being gone simply because it's kind of a annoying thing anyway. I could also see it IB being kept simple like "melee instinctve behavior MUST charge the closest enemy unit, ranged must shoot at the closest enemy unit" which normally not that big a deal, but you could see a squad of termagaunts wasting firepower on a terminator squad

BrianDavion wrote:
are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?

I think it will go, Morale rules are punishing enough for hordes and Nids will have low Ld (maybe as low as 3 or 4) and be decimated by Break tests. I think GW realised IB was just crippling in the modern game, and synapse way too easy to destroy

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?

No. But they didn't mention it one way or the other. If it was dead they could have said so with a single sentence.

doesn't mean they would have, I could see instinctive behavior being gone simply because it's kind of a annoying thing anyway. I could also see it IB being kept simple like "melee instinctve behavior MUST charge the closest enemy unit, ranged must shoot at the closest enemy unit" which normally not that big a deal, but you could see a squad of termagaunts wasting firepower on a terminator squad

It doesn't matter WHAT IB is if the form it takes takes control away from your army. The moment I cannot disengage those gargs to grab that objective without risking them flying off in some random direction because I don't have a SECOND unit there to support them all the Deepstrike, faster movement, improved anything won't make any difference. Non-IB units will inherently be the best just like they are now, and any IB units you bring will be moved as one giant blob or you will risk being the only army in the game who cannot control your own units.


I hope IB goes away. It seems like they are doing a good job and it might go away. But them not mentioning it at all is worrying.

Something as simply as IB allows the units affected by it to ignore their casualties when checking for morale checks should be enough to make a difference.

This may allow nids Hordes to wether the enemy firepower with less casualties while still allowing the owner full control of his units.

Lord Perversor wrote:
Something as simply as IB allows the units affected by it to ignore their casualties when checking for morale checks should be enough to make a difference.

This may allow nids Hordes to wether the enemy firepower with less casualties while still allowing the owner full control of his units.

thats a buff, IB is useally a nerf for not being in range of a synapse. I tend to agree simply not being ion range of synapse is all that should be needed. barring that IB's disadvantage should be minor eneugh that it's stream lined. and realitivly easy to figure out. I think giving 'nids a low leadership instead so that putting them in range of a synapse bubble is simply a good way to avoid your squads melting when they take fire seems smart.

So hyped! Swarmlord seems excellent. I love that the Tyranids will be able to deal with large armored threats like Knights and Vehicles in close combat - as it should be! Swarmlord is speedy - love it. Hormagaunts at move 8 is fine (was hoping for 10). I'm looking forward to flooding the board with Gaunts and Gants. Synapse is a dream come true. Our morale will probably be abysmal, but that's perfectly fine! I hope we melt due to Morale once our synapse is gone. Thats very fluffy.

I expect most Foot Slogging nids to be 8" with a rare lumbering things maybe moving down to 6" (exocrine). Gargoyles, Ravenors, and Shrieks will probably be 10-12"

I'm expecting Shrikes to be gone. They technically don't have a model - only an upgrade pack for the warriors (which is not being sold on the Forgeworld website any longer).

It's possible, but there have been reliable rumors for awhile now that nids were going to be getting some new kits and it's not like GW doesn't make Space Marine upgrade packs.

I wouldn't be overly shocked if they made a plastic Shriek upgrade pack for warriors.

First box I expect to be Deathgaurd VS Primarines.

Second box will probably be BA vs Nids. When that happens we should see some kits release. Hopefully that rumored Vore box that makes a new biovore/pyrovore/psyker vore.


What I REALLY want, but doubt I will get, is for the Prime to be able to be upgraded into a shriek prime or ravener prime with a dedicated prime kit. Something that looks distinct from warriors with a optional pair of wings and optional tail legs.

Lance845 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?

No. But they didn't mention it one way or the other. If it was dead they could have said so with a single sentence.

doesn't mean they would have, I could see instinctive behavior being gone simply because it's kind of a annoying thing anyway. I could also see it IB being kept simple like "melee instinctve behavior MUST charge the closest enemy unit, ranged must shoot at the closest enemy unit" which normally not that big a deal, but you could see a squad of termagaunts wasting firepower on a terminator squad

It doesn't matter WHAT IB is if the form it takes takes control away from your army. The moment I cannot disengage those gargs to grab that objective without risking them flying off in some random direction because I don't have a SECOND unit there to support them all the Deepstrike, faster movement, improved anything won't make any difference. Non-IB units will inherently be the best just like they are now, and any IB units you bring will be moved as one giant blob or you will risk being the only army in the game who cannot control your own units.


I hope IB goes away. It seems like they are doing a good job and it might go away. But them not mentioning it at all is worrying.

I don't see IB going away. Its been a big fundamental part of their fluff for years, and a pretty cool part IMO. I do see GW changing how it fundamentally works. I assume they wouldn't get the immunity to moral checks if outside of synapse. That's a big deal not to have that as the morale phase is brutal now! What is the typical Ld of a genestealer or gaunt? Outside synapse, having only lost a few models in a unit could mean losing up to several more models! That is a huge deal and is a large enough of a nerf. IB doesn't have to be a nerf anymore. Practically everything else in Newhammer has been buffed so that the game balances, why not buff IB also?

It makes sense to reward the player for playing towards the fluff, that is where I see IB going.

J Mac wrote:


I don't see IB going away. Its been a big fundamental part of their fluff for years, and a pretty cool part IMO. I do see GW changing how it fundamentally works. I assume they wouldn't get the immunity to moral checks if outside of synapse. That's a big deal not to have that as the morale phase is brutal now! What is the typical Ld of a genestealer or gaunt? Outside synapse, having only lost a few models in a unit could mean losing up to several more models! That is a huge deal and is a large enough of a nerf. IB doesn't have to be a nerf anymore. Practically everything else in Newhammer has been buffed so that the game balances, why not buff IB also?

It makes sense to reward the player for playing towards the fluff, that is where I see IB going.

There is a thing called emergent gameplay. It's what happens when the mechanics nudge players into a certain direction. Most players of 40k would call the results of emergent game play "The Meta". It doesn't matter how many rules they write for melee in 7th, the emergent game play turns people away from it because of it's many disadvantages.

You don't need to write a heavy handed rule called "Instinctive Behavior" to get players to play according to fluff. No other army has a rule hard wired into their core rules that forces them to behave a certain way. Something especially damaging to a game about making tactical decisions.

You don't need IB to keep nid players wanting to keep their hordes in synapse. Having a 6 average leadership across all those units already does that. Wanting to maintain synapse is already part of the emergent gameplay from the mechanics of synapse, leadership, and moral. You don't need another rule to force it.

buffing IB would be absolutely pants on head stupid.

IB isn't supposed to be some sort of advantage, it's supposed to be a WEAKNESS of the Tyranid army.

one idea I could see is the following special rule:

Instinctive Behavior: the Unit cannot benifit from Stratagems if not within synapse range.


it makes sense (if you're not in synapse range you're not doing clever strageties) and doesn't overly penalize 'nid players with "you have to do this" if you're not in synapse range

BrianDavion wrote:
buffing IB would be absolutely pants on head stupid.

IB isn't supposed to be some sort of advantage, it's supposed to be a WEAKNESS of the Tyranid army.

one idea I could see is the following special rule:

Instinctive Behavior: the Unit cannot benefit from Stratagems if not within synapse range.


it makes sense (if you're not in synapse range you're not doing clever strategies) and doesn't overly penalize 'nid players with "you have to do this" if you're not in synapse range

That (to me), coupled with morale being a without synapse would be perfect

Jbz` wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
buffing IB would be absolutely pants on head stupid.

IB isn't supposed to be some sort of advantage, it's supposed to be a WEAKNESS of the Tyranid army.

one idea I could see is the following special rule:

Instinctive Behavior: the Unit cannot benefit from Stratagems if not within synapse range.


it makes sense (if you're not in synapse range you're not doing clever strategies) and doesn't overly penalize 'nid players with "you have to do this" if you're not in synapse range

That (to me), coupled with morale being a without synapse would be perfect

yeah, and I think combined it'd work nicely, if you read the books Tyranid units generally without synapse are pretty much hitting the enemy dying in droves etc, like a swarm of blood attack dogs, but manangeable, then the syanpse unit shows up and suddenly everything changes because not only are the tyranids acting "like one mind" in regards to ignoring casualityes, but suddenly they're executing, often complex, stratagies.

so IB wouldn't be a HUUUGE problem for Tyranid players, but at the same time Synapse units would be important, and the name of the game with Tyranid units would be using syanpse to support your main pushes/fronts while using non syanpse controlled stuff as cheap fodder along the flanks, with the udnerstanding that you're not gonnado anything partiuclarly effective there.

Oohhhh baby!

 Lance845 wrote:
Well, I have 2 problems with the article. 1) I wish synapse didn't make them immune to moral. There are other ways they could have done it. Like cut losses in half for the purpose of moral. So you would need to kill 10 to get a d6+5 -ld.

2) I am terrified Instinctive Behavior will still ruin the army. Right now it shackles nid models to synapse. Bad leadership hasn't been enough of a punishment to counter synapse in the past. You cannot deepstrike a nonsynapse unless you ALSO deepstrike a synapse to maintain control over them. You can't break off some gargoyles to go grab an objective unless you ALSO break off a synapse to support them. It forces you to move the whole army as a blob except for the very few units who don't have IB.

1 bad thing (bad ld) is enough. 2 bad things is overkill.

Fluff wise most non synapse Tyranid units are not supposed to be out of synapse range. So I am ok with that.

So, does anyone find the idea of usuable pyrovores a bit hard to believe?

SilverAlien wrote:
So, does anyone find the idea of usuable pyrovores a bit hard to believe?

8th edition man, the idea of new changes abound!

Having a low LD and out of Synapse range is all you need to represent IB. A failed Morale test causing half the models to run off the table would be fine for representing the beasties being confused and scared.

Honestly I love the 8E Morale system. I can represent so much. Instinctive Behavior, Daemonic Instability, Mob Rule, or just plain old terrified models fleeing the battle.

-

SilverAlien wrote:
So, does anyone find the idea of usuable pyrovores a bit hard to believe?

yep they were since the day they came out.
I remember buying the new Tyranid codex on release day in 2009 and when i read though it in the GW store i saw this new Pyrovore unit in it. After 5 min of trying to figure out why one should spent 45 points on it i said to my self "man this is crappy unit."

So the balancing of the Pyrovore would be a good indicator to see if they really balanced all units.

I'm fascinated people keep trying to push all the special rules into 8th from 7th.

I'm happy nids are mostly ignoring morale. Good, that should be one of the biggest parts of their army style.

This is the first faction focus that's been 100% positive to me. The first one where it seems like the developers actually GET what the design problems were with the codex. Get hype!

18'' charges lads. And it's not just gaunts and genestealers. Hive Commander can likely be used on anything, so lictors and ravenors can get it on the fun too.

Well my Fully painted 3rd ed army May well be awesome again

.. But should probably paint the various other things I have about

Imagine other units that we've written off for years? I shudder to think of the powerhouse Maleceptor.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


This is the first faction focus that's been 100% positive to me. The first one where it seems like the developers actually GET what the design problems were with the codex. Get hype!

18'' charges lads. And it's not just gaunts and genestealers. Hive Commander can likely be used on anything, so lictors and ravenors can get it on the fun too.

I attribute this to the writer of the article. Reece knows what we want, and he gave us a hell of a taste.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Imagine other units that we've written off for years? I shudder to think of the powerhouse Maleceptor.

I imagine it'll be something like 'Pick 3 units with ___". Each suffers 1 Mortal Wound (or D3 on a Psychic roll of a ___+" for their psychic power.'

Basically a slightly weaker Smite than can target more units at once and that doesn't force you to hit the closest unit(s).

I am very happy to see the Tyranids getting some realy good changes finally, they look like they will be so much better.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Shrikes to be gone. They technically don't have a model - only an upgrade pack for the warriors (which is not being sold on the Forgeworld website any longer).

They can be a new double kit with Raveners.

"Nobody is immune to morale," they said!

you, GW!