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If you want to fix the Last Jedi you need to start at the beginning...and that’s The Force Awakens. And I agree with Shadow Captain Edithae. Was it too much to ask for a new story rather than just a rehash of A New Hope that turns into...well, gak.

Backfire wrote:

To some extent I agree. TFA was made very uncomplicated with minimal exposition as they were afraid of boring people with 'political dialogue' which was one of the criticisms of Lucas prequels. Unfortunately, leaving all that backstory out (and the backstory isn't actually bad at all and fits quite well into the movies) made the movie feel detached and remake-ish. Thus, when TLJ starts, viewer is immediately confusing about where everything is taking place, to where Resistance is running to, why is the First Order again and so forth.

It's hard to sell books and comics if you give everything away in the movie.

Backfire wrote:

Another major problem is character of Finn. He was just not well thought of. His special skill is that he knows some First Order stuff. Okay. Nice but it's a card which is quickly played out. Leia, Han, Lando and Luke each had unique abilities which made them useful assets for the Rebellion and thus easy to write in the plotlines. Finn by contrast is written as a pawn who got disillusioned and wanted out and stumbled to Resistance by accident rather than having any grand motivation to help them. His low stature is underlined by repeated comments how he was mere foot soldier or a janitor doing menial tasks.

I agree that using Finn as new Jar-Jar is bad writing, but it isn't because he lacks special skills. Leia's only special skills are being an Alderanian princess, and Luke's sister; she's a good character because she acquits herself as a bad-ass by keeping up with Han and Luke, and no one bats an eyelash. Finn actually does this too, from his initial escape to flying the ski-speeder, but it isn't cast in the same light. There's a lot more "Holy gak, he's not a moron!" than "Yeah, that's expected.".

Backfire wrote:

So okay, that sorta works out in TFA but what's next? Second movie comes in, what we do with Finn? He is not a Force user, not a super pilot, super spy or super leader. He's just a janitor who knows some FO stuff.

I suspect he's meant to be the everyman that viewers connect with. I'd say that Star Wars doesn't need an everyman, because my grandmother knows who Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are, but I also recall a Penny Arcade strip about the authors' children not knowing anything about Star Wars; so maybe it does? But if that's the case then Finn is poorly realized, as you say, because he doesn't really interact with anyone in a way that leads to explanations.

Also, there is literally no time between the end of TFA and TLJ - Finn has no opportunity to be accepted as part of the resistance and develop any loyalty towards it (see Han Solo between ANH and TESB). So his character has to still be the same "I'm making a run for it, I really don't like the First Order" Stormtrooper Janitor he was in TFA.

 Graphite wrote:
Also, there is literally no time between the end of TFA and TLJ - Finn has no opportunity to be accepted as part of the resistance and develop any loyalty towards it (see Han Solo between ANH and TESB). So his character has to still be the same "I'm making a run for it, I really don't like the First Order" Stormtrooper Janitor he was in TFA.

That's why having him crash into the cannon would have been a brilliant and satisfying end to his story arc. Because it was when he stopped running and joined the cause.

But you do have to wonder when someone with no piloting skills learned how to fly a speeder.

sirlynchmob wrote:

But you do have to wonder when someone with no piloting skills learned how to fly a speeder.

Speeders are the cars of Star Wars, so I'll give that a pass.

I think the only way to save TLJ is to go back in time and put JJ in the hospital for an extended stay before he starts writing the script, so they can pass it on to someone else to do it.

I never read any of the novels that came after ROTJ, but it seems many were popular. While Han, Luke, etc had no doubt aged since the original trilogy, I would have preferred to keep their characters on a path closer to where we expected them to go after ROTJ. We see Luke's temple, we see Han and Leia together. Etc etc. Some short time is spent showing the galaxy enjoying some relative peace when then out of the shadow comes a new threat. Maybe the first movie would be about holding off that threat before it got too big, but they fail, and then the second movie the stakes are even higher. Introducing Planet Killer so early kinda takes the stakes out of the threat. Where do we go from here in regards to a super weapon. And how did anyone not see that thing being built? The amount of resources would have been staggering. Yet somehow it was missed.

And I am totally on board with a younger cast to carry the torch. Would have loved to see Luke and his prized student laying the smack down on someone, even if it meant Luke had to sacrifice himself in the process. I don't know how you get around Han though. I think him dying is the only reason they were able to get Harrison back. But the death lacked the emotion it should have as a father since we didn't see any relationship building between Ben and Han. The only time we see them talk is right before Han gets a lightsaber in the belly button.

Of course, this series was about a new cast of characters, not the old ones, but managing that passing the torch could have been done better. There are just so many plot holes and things just written off that it becomes insulting to think we paid premium bucks to watch it on IMAX.

I really don't know what they are going to do from here, and I don't have much hope. You can blame JJ for the start of this trilogy, even if we hate Rian more, and I don't think he's going to be able to tie it all up in a way to make us all think watching these two movies was worth it. Are they going to kill Ben? Hate to say it, he's probably the best character even tho he's silly. Kill Rey? Can't imagine they would do that to all the feminists. Poe? Fin? Can't see that either. I assume to properly close this arc we'll need something like the ewok bonfire scene. Which mean's we'll need everyone. And its not like we've got many main characters left.

I swear the only thing to come out of this trilogy that I like is BB-8. I am a fan of BB-8/ The rest, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIzGejLP-U&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=2aq5ReqMfoD1LGSC-6

I dont agree with his comment that the Episode 9 will make less than 1 billion, but he raises some good points.

It might. A billion is still a lot. Not as much as it used to be in many ways. But If I were Lucasarts I'd be cautious about banking on a billion bucks atm.

It's on Netflix now. How the hell do you make Star Wars ...boring?!?!?!!

 Frazzled wrote:
It's on Netflix now. How the hell do you make Star Wars ...boring?!?!?!!

Apparently hire Rian Johnson and his team - if you have a setting, you want it made stupid, tedious and boring, and if you can find them - maybe you hire the RJ team. Da da Da.

I tried watching it on Netflix and ended up fast forwarding the majority of it because it was so boring and tedious.

I’ve only watched TLJ once, but the fact that I can barely remember anything about it can’t be a good sign.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’ve only watched TLJ once, but the fact that I can barely remember anything about it can’t be a good sign.

I'd already seen the movie online before I visited the cinema for a second viewing with my family. I struggled to stay awake through the movie.

Now that it's fresh in your mind, how would YOU fix it?

 Vulcan wrote:
Now that it's fresh in your mind, how would YOU fix it?

Chunk every part of it and start from whole clothing with a new script and new director. Get the director from Fury Road.

Not exactly a 'minimum revision' fix there, Frazz. Probably the best way, though.

If I were to put in a minimal fix I think I would just change the ending. I'd keep Luke alive and stick him on the Falcon, having again cut himself off from the force to protect his location from the enemy. This means his force projection would be over a closer distance and maybe not kill him. allowing for him to return in at a later time or in a different capacity. He would take a back seat in the action department but provide guidance to the younger characters and avoid being killed for a while.
It doesn't save the movie, that would take a fair bit more. My first thoughts on fixing TLJ were based on how to do it with the minimal amount of changes and additions.
At one time I thought to have ghost Anikin save his daughter when she was in space with him putting her back on the ship but it would just be that she is there and no one say how. She on the other hand would be held by her father who would just look down at here and smile and that's it. We could put a troubled look on Kilo's face or something but leave it as he seems unsure but knows something force related has happened but doesn't understand what he's picking up on.
Also, when Ray in in the pod and brought aboard the flag ship. Kilo would be there shirtless just to make things uncomfortable. lol. Maybe later saying is it hot in here..as he messes with his shirt. a trooper standing there could mumble...I have a bad feeling about this. (Just joking about that.)

I would have liked to see Luke survive into the next movie, particularly with the loss of Carrie Fisher meaning all of the 'old guard' are now gone.

Beyond that, though, I wouldn't be interested in a remake. TLJ isn't perfect, but I enjoyed the hell out of it at the cinema, and I enjoyed the hell out of it again watching it at home on Blueray.

Well, rumours have it that Lando will be back for ep9.

I can already visualise the expanding cloud of vapour that will signify his send-off.

"who put that there?"



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't think they need "fixing".

In the same way I don't think that the holiday special needs "fixing." It serves a purpose. You can't measure "goodish" without "bad ... so bad it's really bad."

If you don't like them, don't watch them. Ignore them, it's almost as good as them not being there. Like the ignore function on this board.
Just don't go foisting your fanboy evangelism on others who may like them (for whatever reason). I hated the ewoks (as a 15 year old - creepy teddy bears) but I know people who were 6-7 who loved them and shed tears when they died by the bucketload. By the same token, there's about 40 minutes in the prequels that didn't suck. Enough to make a decent tv episode but I know there are people who were kids then who love them.

I mean, I think that the 80s animated transformers movie was a pile of dren, with a soundtrack that would make Diane Warren cry - but the live action movies didn't "destroy my childhood memories" - mostly because my childhood memories were already pretty established and buried by the time those movies eventuated.

By the same token, I see current friends clutching their "but muh feels" when so many spandex special kids get turned to dust in the latest spandex-special-kids movie.

I didn't. Despite all that dust hanging around.

 insaniak wrote:
I would have liked to see Luke survive into the next movie, particularly with the loss of Carrie Fisher meaning all of the 'old guard' are now gone.

I would be surprised if Luke didn't force ghost into E9.

 dogma wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
I would have liked to see Luke survive into the next movie, particularly with the loss of Carrie Fisher meaning all of the 'old guard' are now gone.

I would be surprised if Luke didn't force ghost into E9.

I expect that to happen too.....so it won't happen, sadly

-

 chromedog wrote:
If you don't like them, don't watch them.

How would you know if you don't like them if you don't watch them?

Don't go foisting that "logic" thing on me.

The h8rfanboys don't go using it, so don't expect me to.

In order to fix the fanatic hate, it is necessary to take the fans out of their attics. Or at least their basements.

 chromedog wrote:
Don't go foisting that "logic" thing on me.

The h8rfanboys don't go using it, so don't expect me to.

In order to fix the fanatic hate, it is necessary to take the fans out of their attics. Or at least their basements.

Wow how het up are you to defend at all cost this movie and of course insult anyone who dares to take issue with any element of it. Cos thats adult.

If you don't like them, don't watch them. Ignore them,

What a pathetic comment - we go to the movies to be entertained, enthralled, whatever - if we don't like something we PAID for we have every right to voice our views on it same as you have every right to say how wonderful you thought it was.

Just becuase you thought this (IMO POS) movie was great don't expect everyone to do so and don't use the execuse of some sterotype to dismiss anyone else's opionion if you want to be be treated as an adult.

I went on Netflix last night and saw this movie was on it so I said sure, and played it for a bit as I zipped through parts. I have to admit I was just annoyed with just about every character I saw on screen. Even Del Toro who I like as an actor. Even the guy who plays Finn, who I think is a really good actor, has the unfortunate life of playing a crappy character. I am just are not attached to anyone in it. They could have killed everyone off at the end and I would have felt they were just putting it out of its misery.

I don't know how you save Star Wars anymore. I feel I have gotten all I want out of it, and will probably try to wipe this new trilogy from my memory.

I think Rey is hot sometimes, which is about the only thing thats doing it for me while I watch her character, but other times I am annoyed with how she talks.

Its a real shame because pool of actors they got for this movie was fine. The characters they were asked to play suck and so does the story.

I’m sure everyone remembers Harrison Ford’s famous words to Lucas: “George, you can write this gak, but you sure as hell can’t make people read it”. No matter what GL wrote or did, even he couldn’t make a movie as bad as TLJ. Even Jar Jar Binks is an improvement. Yeah, I said it. Binks is better than RJ.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
Don't go foisting that "logic" thing on me.

The h8rfanboys don't go using it, so don't expect me to.

In order to fix the fanatic hate, it is necessary to take the fans out of their attics. Or at least their basements.

Wow how het up are you to defend at all cost this movie and of course insult anyone who dares to take issue with any element of it. Cos thats adult.

Agreed he could have done better, but from what I've seen these SW threads are exactly what you describe but in reverse.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m sure everyone remembers Harrison Ford’s famous words to Lucas: “George, you can write this gak, but you sure as hell can’t make people read it”. No matter what GL wrote or did, even he couldn’t make a movie as bad as TLJ. Even Jar Jar Binks is an improvement. Yeah, I said it. Binks is better than RJ.

Dude- I respect your desire to prove your point and all, but really? Worse than The Phantom Menace? Sure, a sublight chase to sneak the survivors to a planet is a bad idea- but TPM spent half the movie getting Amidala to the Senate to complain about an invasion sparked by a trade dispute. Their planet was just lost by politics so clearly the answer is to use- politics. Then the other half of the movie having misfits and children win battles in ways that were less probable than Poe's prank call stalling tactic. It was awesome seeing Coruscant on the screen, and the Duel of the Fates was great- but stack that against the Snoke henchmen fight, and the hyperspace kamikaze. The Podrace is as silly as the failed Casino heist and herd of running ostrich lizard horses.

Personally, I much prefer Jarjar when he's just a flock of nonsentient birds which are eaten by Chewbacca. I'm not saying it's the best Star Wars.... but worse than the Phantom Menace? It's just not so.

What's with all the hate for the opening scene? It's an important character moment for both Poe and Hux - it shows that Poe is the type of Han Solo protagonist that goes for half-assed, audacious plans (setting up his arc and conflict with Holdo and Leia) and establishes Hux as an easily-flustered bully who vastly prefers grandiose declarations and shooting at helpless targets to actual conflict with someone dangerous (setting up his tunnel vision while he's gleefully blowing up transport ships and his brief temptation to assassinate Kylo Ren before immediately knuckling under for the rest of the film). It also shows why the Resistance is so low on supplies.

And, c'mon, the bridge crew immediately getting what was happening and not wanting to point it out was pretty funny.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m sure everyone remembers Harrison Ford’s famous words to Lucas: “George, you can write this gak, but you sure as hell can’t make people read it”. No matter what GL wrote or did, even he couldn’t make a movie as bad as TLJ. Even Jar Jar Binks is an improvement. Yeah, I said it. Binks is better than RJ.

Dude- I respect your desire to prove your point and all, but really? Worse than The Phantom Menace? .... but worse than the Phantom Menace? It's just not so.

Well, at least Phantom Menace had Darth Maul. TLJ has nobody. Even Luke and Leia are shells of their former selves.