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 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Looking good.. I just watched Justice League the other night finally and enjoyed it. Seems like folks generally don't like the DC movies as much as Marvel, but I like em. Never was much of an Aquaman fan but this guy does a good job.

I dont know what people dislike in JL - yeah its not all dull and doom and rain but rather fun, slick and enjoyabe like a Marvel movie.

It has a bunch of odd character moments where people act out of character or contradictory to the way we have seen them before, bad pacing in its plot, and gak cgi. The whole end takes place in a flat red nothingness where 1 family in a pick up lives.

Basically nothing like a marvel movie.

The difference between marvel and dc isn't fun vs dark. Civil war and infinity war are dark movies. Its quality vs crap.

That and JL exemplifies the Superman problem. As long as he is alive, no problems matter. Evil demon guy is a nigh insurmountable challenge to the entire team and entire civilizations, even actual gods in prehistory. Supes casually beats him down while distracted.

Every effort (and the very concept of the necessity of a justice league) is mocked by the second arc of the film. Band assembles, immediately reduced to gawking fools. Flash saves four people? Superman saves an entire building and dozens inside, while taking a time out from beating the boss monster like a drum.

That's utterly crap storytelling.

Voss wrote:
That and JL exemplifies the Superman problem. As long as he is alive, no problems matter. Evil demon guy is a nigh insurmountable challenge to the entire team and entire civilizations, even actual gods in prehistory. Supes casually beats him down while distracted.

Every effort (and the very concept of the necessity of a justice league) is mocked by the second arc of the film. Band assembles, immediately reduced to gawking fools. Flash saves four people? Superman saves an entire building and dozens inside, while taking a time out from beating the boss monster like a drum.

That's utterly crap storytelling.

Also the lesson batman learned from BvS was that instead of "If there is even a 1% chance that hes bad I need to kill him!" became "If there is even a 1% chance that bringing him back to life means we have a good guy to help us then we need to throw his body in this goo that made doomsday and hope for the best!"

Batman is supposed to be smart. WT actual F.

The Justice League villain was forgettable. Sooo forgettable.

I couldn't stop looking at Superman's mustache. The 'stache CGI was almost as bad as Cyborgs.

It's not a horrible movie. It's not the worst DC movie. It's okay. It should have been so much more. It's disappointing.

Wonder Woman was much better. Aquaman is looking good. Shazam looks fun. I have high hopes for DC. Hopefully, we'll get a good JL movie someday.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Looking good.. I just watched Justice League the other night finally and enjoyed it. Seems like folks generally don't like the DC movies as much as Marvel, but I like em. Never was much of an Aquaman fan but this guy does a good job.

I dont know what people dislike in JL - yeah its not all dull and doom and rain but rather fun, slick and enjoyabe like a Marvel movie.

It has a bunch of odd character moments where people act out of character or contradictory to the way we have seen them before, bad pacing in its plot, and gak cgi. The whole end takes place in a flat red nothingness where 1 family in a pick up lives.

Basically nothing like a marvel movie.

The difference between marvel and dc isn't fun vs dark. Civil war and infinity war are dark movies. Its quality vs crap.

Well yes they tried to ignore the crap elements that we had had in BVs, Man of Steel etc - that was the really poor stuff, the only bad thing was they had to bring back Loopy Lex rather than getting a new actor- I guess that contactural as every moment he was on scrreen was painful,

Whats out of character or is this more the Flash is not the Flash from the comics or whatever?

Yep I disagee with everything you said

And DC is completely one hundred percent serious all the time.




But yeah, there was more bad than good in Justice League, however I'm able to just enjoy the parts I do enjoy with the film.

JL was what happens when a director and studio aren’t in sync...at all. If you didn’t like the Snyderverse - and it really was that - then you might still like the upcoming DC films.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Looking good.. I just watched Justice League the other night finally and enjoyed it. Seems like folks generally don't like the DC movies as much as Marvel, but I like em. Never was much of an Aquaman fan but this guy does a good job.

I dont know what people dislike in JL - yeah its not all dull and doom and rain but rather fun, slick and enjoyabe like a Marvel movie.

It has a bunch of odd character moments where people act out of character or contradictory to the way we have seen them before, bad pacing in its plot, and gak cgi. The whole end takes place in a flat red nothingness where 1 family in a pick up lives.

Basically nothing like a marvel movie.

The difference between marvel and dc isn't fun vs dark. Civil war and infinity war are dark movies. Its quality vs crap.

Well yes they tried to ignore the crap elements that we had had in BVs, Man of Steel etc - that was the really poor stuff, the only bad thing was they had to bring back Loopy Lex rather than getting a new actor- I guess that contactural as every moment he was on scrreen was painful,

Except they kept a lot of the crap elements and added some more.

1) Batmans stuff is still covered in machine guns and hes still a murderer

2) Batmans still a idiot. (see above where Batman runs on weird Dick Cheney logic for all his reasons for doing anything)

3) Superman is still so astronomically powerful that its pointless for anyone else to be there.

Whats out of character or is this more the Flash is not the Flash from the comics or whatever?

Yep I disagee with everything you said

The flash being a weird mash up of Wally and Barry is whatever. He also runs like somebody who has never run in their entire life and is so fast that time literally slows to near standing still. Despite this he trips on mundane garbage every time he starts moving.

Batmans first scene of the movie is him stopping a robber. Who pulls out a gun and starts shooting wildly in a city, putting all kinds of peoples lives as risk when those bullets keep moving. It also says he is willing to kill. Batman uses him for bait for a monster, and then, after a cheeky little chat, leaves the murdering thief on the roof with his gun to go about his evening of theft and murder.

Batman, who is notoriously protective of his identiy. Shows up to aquaman and flash as bruce wayne and then just starts throwing batarangs and telling them he is batman. People he doesn't know. Who could just tell everyone at any moment that bruce is bats. On the other hand he could just be willing to kill them if they did blab. On the other other hand he didn't even know what the flash could do and honestly flash could kill him 10 times over. So could aquaman. Because this is an idiot batman who goes in blind and whos gimick is vehicles. Not brains. Vehicles.

Cyborg was dull as dirt. He had bad lines and a core element of good plot that looked like it mostly ended up on the cutting room floor.

Aquamans best bit was when WW had the lasso on him and he started talking about his actual feelings. The rest of the time he was a yelling dude bro frat boy. The worst.

The bad guy (Steppenwolf) was a forgettable cgi gray mess. Look at the difference between Thanos and Steppenwolf. It's night and day. Was there ever a fight in infinity war that looked like it took place in a place as flat and boring as the red waste of JLs final battle? No. Because the ruins of Titan were incredibly interesting. And colorful. And while not a place teaming with life it did look like a place that was ONCE teaming with life. On the other hand JLs fight took place in a city on earth. Population tuck with 4 people and a super obvious green screen everything.

1) Batmans stuff is still covered in machine guns and hes still a murderer

Soo completely consistant with the BvS character and in fact previous film versions so not an issue for me (incuding the best Batman film by Tim Burton)

Batmans still a idiot. (see above where Batman runs on weird Dick Cheney logic for all his reasons for doing anything)

Sorry Don't see it and certainly the Nolan version makes this version look like a genius

3) Superman is still so astronomically powerful that its pointless for anyone else to be there.

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest" that s the joy of Marvel films and replicated here.

The flash being a weird mash up of Wally and Barry is whatever. He also runs like somebody who has never run in their entire life and is so fast that time literally slows to near standing still. Despite this he trips on mundane garbage every time he starts moving.

most movie goers have no idea abnout the first element - What I know about Flash and Aquaman comes from Big Bang - otehrs will know the TV series and thats all they will have as background - so this is a differnt incarnation - big whoop. Did you not watch the film - he is not someone who fights battles - he has a power and only now meets something that can kill him and others

"All I have ever done is pushed someone and run away" - Now he faces having people being killed jin front of you and you might die. Strangely he screws up now and again.

Batmans first scene of the movie is him stopping a robber. Who pulls out a gun and starts shooting wildly in a city, putting all kinds of peoples lives as risk when those bullets keep moving. It also says he is willing to kill. Batman uses him for bait for a monster, and then, after a cheeky little chat, leaves the murdering thief on the roof with his gun to go about his evening of theft and murder.

Seriously thats Batmans MO - he scares them then grabs them - loads of times people shoot into the background - again if you watch the films THIS Old Angry Batman is prepared to kill and has lost something of himselfe which he is trying to regain in JL - its really not hard.

Batman, who is notoriously protective of his identiy. Shows up to aquaman and flash as bruce wayne and then just starts throwing batarangs and telling them he is batman. People he doesn't know. Who could just tell everyone at any moment that bruce is bats. On the other hand he could just be willing to kill them if they did blab. On the other other hand he didn't even know what the flash could do and honestly flash could kill him 10 times over. So could aquaman. Because this is an idiot batman who goes in blind and whos gimick is vehicles. Not brains. Vehicles.

He had a fair idea of what Flash is - again that perfectly conveyed by the scene - how did you not understand this? This is in Fact not the other Batmans - this is old Angry Batman - which is you know different as definied in the films - sheesh,

Cyborg was dull as dirt. He had bad lines and a core element of good plot that looked like it mostly ended up on the cutting room floor.

Worked fine for me - not seen these scenes - they might be good, might not be.

Aquamans best bit was when WW had the lasso on him and he started talking about his actual feelings. The rest of the time he was a yelling dude bro frat boy. The worst.

For You Not for me and others. Again the lasso shows his real self beneath the bravado - Thats the point of the Scene!!!

The bad guy (Steppenwolf) was a forgettable cgi gray mess. Look at the difference between Thanos and Steppenwolf. It's night and day. Was there ever a fight in infinity war that looked like it took place in a place as flat and boring as the red waste of JLs final battle? No. Because the ruins of Titan were incredibly interesting. And colorful. And while not a place teaming with life it did look like a place that was ONCE teaming with life. On the other hand JLs fight took place in a city on earth. Population tuck with 4 people and a super obvious green screen everything.

Isnt the Darkseid bloke Thanos and Stepenwolf his MIinon? At best he is Loki or Ultron in the respective Avengers films - which of course this is the first JL film - so duh...

So again I disagree with everything you said but each to your own.

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

Except, according to the movie itself, it totally is. All of Bats investigations point to the idea that everything is happening because Superman is gone. And he obviously concludes that only Superman can stop it, because the rest of them aren't strong enough.

Yes, Steppenwolf is a minion. That makes it worse. The league is useless against the actual Big Bad's lowest, most unworthy lieutenant. In the unlikely event a sequel happens, everyone who is not Superman will be even more useless.

Only Superman matters, the combined forces of everyone else doesn't count for squat. They could be entirely replaced by Science Guy tossing Supes corpse into the vat with cube for the lulz, and it wouldn't make any difference at all.

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Voss wrote:

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

Except, according to the movie itself, it totally is. All of Bats investigations point to the idea that everything is happening because Superman is gone. And he obviously concludes that only Superman can stop it, because the rest of them aren't strong enough.

Yes, Steppenwolf is a minion. That makes it worse. The league is useless against the actual Big Bad's lowest, most unworthy lieutenant. In the unlikely event a sequel happens, everyone who is not Superman will be even more useless.

Only Superman matters, the combined forces of everyone else doesn't count for squat. They could be entirely replaced by Science Guy tossing Supes corpse into the vat with cube for the lulz, and it wouldn't make any difference at all.

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Not watched the animated so can;t comment - oh other than the dire Batman Ninja I sat through recently at a friends.

Disagree with everything else you said.

You are welcome to your opinion. It's a okay for you to be wrong. Lots of people are wrong about lots of things that are way more important.

This looks better and better the more I see of it.

 Lance845 wrote:
You are welcome to your opinion. It's a okay for you to be wrong. Lots of people are wrong about lots of things that are way more important.

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Well, critical reviews, fan ratings, and box office would all say pretty clearly that the biggest DC triumph was WW, not SS. You're entitled to *like* what you like, but 'biggest triumph' may not be the best choice of words in this instance.

The animated films have the advantage of not being reconceptualized and rewritten as production was about to begin, and then rewritten and reworked at the last minute under a different director. Like I said before, the story of JL is the story of a dysfunctional relationship between a studio and a director, with hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. Thankfully both parties have moved on, and we should get some more coherent offerings going forward from DC/WB.

 Lance845 wrote:
The bad guy (Steppenwolf) was a forgettable cgi gray mess. Look at the difference between Thanos and Steppenwolf. It's night and day. Was there ever a fight in infinity war that looked like it took place in a place as flat and boring as the red waste of JLs final battle? No. Because the ruins of Titan were incredibly interesting. And colorful. And while not a place teaming with life it did look like a place that was ONCE teaming with life. On the other hand JLs fight took place in a city on earth. Population tuck with 4 people and a super obvious green screen everything.

Thanos looked great, but clearly most of the CGI budget went there. Proxima Midnight looked like Steppenwolf's sister both literally and in terms of half-baked CGI. It's baffling to me why they didn't just cast a live actress for that character. The 'genestealers' also weren't convincing IMO. And Marvel also needs to own the poor CGI in Black Panther. Not sure why the more limited CGI there was so rubbery there even as Spider-Man has looked pretty good overall.

I think maybe the story here is that audiences are very good at detecting CGI, and these superhero films are trying to push the spectacle and fantastic characters beyond the limits of what the technology and even insane budgets can handle.

 gorgon wrote:

Voss wrote:

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Well, critical reviews, fan ratings, and box office would all say pretty clearly that the biggest DC triumph was WW, not SS. You're entitled to *like* what you like, but 'biggest triumph' may not be the best choice of words in this instance.

No, they were exactly the words I wanted. WW's success was something of a given, it had very little to do with the films quality (which broke down into a muddled mess, in terms of message, story and visuals). SS wasn't -good-, but it was actually a fun romp with a fair amount coherent storytelling, something all the other DC films have utterly failed at, being neither particularly fun and nor particularly coherent, either internally or externally. Best of a bad lot, as it were, at least so far.

Wonder Woman was on the whole a great film, it looked great, was well crafted and has enjoyed IMO a deserved excellent response form viewers.

It was absolutely not a "given" successesepcially since it followed some pretty poor DC movies including Bats Vs Sups where although she was perhaps the best thing in the film - it was massively elt down by the director and portrayal of Lex Luther. Add what was percieved as a huge risk in having a female lead in a superhero film - something that Marvel have only just put on the table.

Suicide Squad had some great scenes (and a trailer that was arguabley better than the film) and served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Voss wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Voss wrote:

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Well, critical reviews, fan ratings, and box office would all say pretty clearly that the biggest DC triumph was WW, not SS. You're entitled to *like* what you like, but 'biggest triumph' may not be the best choice of words in this instance.

No, they were exactly the words I wanted. WW's success was something of a given, it had very little to do with the films quality (which broke down into a muddled mess, in terms of message, story and visuals). SS wasn't -good-, but it was actually a fun romp with a fair amount coherent storytelling, something all the other DC films have utterly failed at, being neither particularly fun and nor particularly coherent, either internally or externally. Best of a bad lot, as it were, at least so far.

'Triumph' suggests success or victory, which SS was not in terms of critical reviews or audience reaction. Critics savaged it and audiences gave it a just-okay B+ Cinemascore. It did okay at the box office, but still less than WW.

Ayer wrote the thing in a matter of weeks, and then the studio had a trailer company recut it. He's basically apologized for how it turned out, but it wasn't all on him.

 gorgon wrote:

Voss wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Voss wrote:

Except its not all about "MMHUU who is strongest"

And that's before we get in on the dialogue, the inconsistent tone, lighting and absurdly bland effects. Suicide Squad was at least amusing in places. Sad as it is, I still say that's the biggest triumph of the DC universe films... and still doesn't hold a candle to the animated stuff.

Well, critical reviews, fan ratings, and box office would all say pretty clearly that the biggest DC triumph was WW, not SS. You're entitled to *like* what you like, but 'biggest triumph' may not be the best choice of words in this instance.

No, they were exactly the words I wanted. WW's success was something of a given, it had very little to do with the films quality (which broke down into a muddled mess, in terms of message, story and visuals). SS wasn't -good-, but it was actually a fun romp with a fair amount coherent storytelling, something all the other DC films have utterly failed at, being neither particularly fun and nor particularly coherent, either internally or externally. Best of a bad lot, as it were, at least so far.

'Triumph' suggests success or victory, which SS was not in terms of critical reviews or audience reaction. Critics savaged it and audiences gave it a just-okay B+ Cinemascore. It did okay at the box office, but still less than WW.

Ayer wrote the thing in a matter of weeks, and then the studio had a trailer company recut it. He's basically apologized for how it turned out, but it wasn't all on him.

Same critics who worship without reservation Rian Johnson and the Last Jedi? Seriously F them.

It was better than Bats vs Sups and Man of Steel at least.

Final trailer is here. We see some new stuff in this one, including the Ocean Master helmet.

 Mr Morden wrote:
served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Are you saying with a straight face you think Justice League was a better movie than the Nolan Batman movies?

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Are you saying with a straight face you think Justice League was a better movie than the Nolan Batman movies?

Yep - The first one is way way too long, the whole Ninja chaos stuff is weak and the the second film is just crap. Didn't bother with the third.

I watched a whole bunch of upcoming Superhero trailers and this one looked the most interesting. I am not a DC fan, but the trailer looked more interesting than Captain Marvel to me.

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Are you saying with a straight face you think Justice League was a better movie than the Nolan Batman movies?

I don't think they meet Morden's "Hawt Chix" requirement...

 gorgon wrote:
Final trailer is here. We see some new stuff in this one, including the Ocean Master helmet.

Yeesh. Yet more 'stuff' to pack into a film that already looks like it's going to have a groan-worthy running time.
Either that or the movie is going to run straight for the trident while jamming in all those freaking flashbacks back-to-back, then jump to the giant CGI battle with no context.

Weird but neat Highlander homage in that beach training scene.

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Are you saying with a straight face you think Justice League was a better movie than the Nolan Batman movies?

I actually agree with him on that point. That trilogy is WAY overrated.

 gorgon wrote:
Final trailer is here. We see some new stuff in this one, including the Ocean Master helmet.

It’s just so colorful!

 Just Tony wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
served as a bridge between the bad old films (Nolans trilogy, Man of Steel,Bats vs Sups) and far superior films - Wonder Woman, Justice League and if the film lives up to the trailers - Aquaman.

Are you saying with a straight face you think Justice League was a better movie than the Nolan Batman movies?

I actually agree with him on that point. That trilogy is WAY overrated.

The nolan movies had a really good origin for 2 face and a really good joker. Thats it. They have the worst batman on film. a okay scare crow. A gak ras, talia, and bane. They are bad batman movies.

You think Nolan’s Batman was worse than Aflec’s Murder Hobo?

 AduroT wrote:
You think Nolan’s Batman was worse than Aflec’s Murder Hobo?

Afleks Murder Hobo was 1) a detective. 2) figured out the bad guys plot AND supermans weakness. 3) got batmans simmering rage down. 4) understood that voice synthesizers exist.

Bales batmans was 1) the biggest idiot batman we have seen to date. He did no detective work you and I couldn't also do with the same machine AND every one of those movies ends with the bad guy explaining to a very confused batman the plot of the movie because he couldn't figure out gak. 2) a hypocrite. Just because he SAYS no guns doesn't stop him from getting into "The Bat" and firing guns and rockets all over the city to knock talia off a bridge and killing her. Him being a bad shot doesn't make his gun use any less. 3) a quiter. He quits between or at the end of every movie.


I think Afleks batman REALLY fethed up on the killing department. But Bale was also a killer. In all 3 of those movies he kills. AT LEAST Aflek was intelligent, which is batmans actual greatest weapon. Bale is the biggest idiot we have seen on screen. Just... a complete moron. He really is just some fething guy in a body armor running around. The LITERAL only difference between him and that guy in foot ball pads is the money he has to buy armor. They are both equally dumb as gak.