Switch Theme:

Anyone else feeling content fatigue?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Karol wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Back in my day we had to wait 5- 7 years between codexes and we liked it *grumble*

But yes, keeping up with content and even models is a nightmare. I paint maybe 1 or 2 armies a year and I just can't keep up. I'm not even chasing the meta.

I do make large armies though...


Codex in the past must have really been writen with much better rule sets then now, because I can't imagine someone playing something like GK for 7 years with hope that maybe the codex gets better, only to get a copy past codex later on, and live with the prospect of another 5-7 years waiting.


hahahahahahahahahaha

nope.

Competitive metas were 1-2 armies for entire editions pretty much. Sometimes I try to imagine the brain anyeurism that the spoiled-ass 8th edition crowd would get if we had something like the Codex Space Marines to Codex Space Wolves comparison in modern 40k, where Space Wolves were literally just space marines for the exact same cost with a host of extra free gak lumped onto them for "flavor".
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




 SHUPPET wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Oh yeah too much content for peoples armies.. must be a real bummer!

im sitting here with a bunch of failcast 15 year old sculpts :p.


Exactly this lol. We're spoiled for content. I just feel bad for people playing the niche armies that missed the boat. Unbelievable that people complain about having more, optional, additions, added to their army.
Don't feel too sorry for us. We'll get a new model in another 2 years on regular pace (no updates to old models of course), but one new unit would be sweet and I think we will see one around 2021 (the last one was in 2011, before that 2001)! I hope it's a HQ being able to legally take 2 battalions with no special characters would be awesome!
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

the_scotsman wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Back in my day we had to wait 5- 7 years between codexes and we liked it *grumble*

But yes, keeping up with content and even models is a nightmare. I paint maybe 1 or 2 armies a year and I just can't keep up. I'm not even chasing the meta.

I do make large armies though...


Codex in the past must have really been writen with much better rule sets then now, because I can't imagine someone playing something like GK for 7 years with hope that maybe the codex gets better, only to get a copy past codex later on, and live with the prospect of another 5-7 years waiting.


hahahahahahahahahaha

nope.

Competitive metas were 1-2 armies for entire editions pretty much. Sometimes I try to imagine the brain anyeurism that the spoiled-ass 8th edition crowd would get if we had something like the Codex Space Marines to Codex Space Wolves comparison in modern 40k, where Space Wolves were literally just space marines for the exact same cost with a host of extra free gak lumped onto them for "flavor".
In a way, I do kinda miss those days. You knew what you were getting into with an army and "new" armies were safer for longer.
Yeah, it sucked to go against that 1-2 armies that were on top the whole edition, but you KNEW what those armies were.

Now there is just so much stuff that comes out every month that it is not only hard to "chase the meta" but hard to know if you have a competitive list that will be competitive next week, or know if the army you are facing is going to give you a headache or not.

Now that 90% the Codices are out, I kinda hope all we have to expect for new releases are one-off WD updates, Version2 Codices with minimal changes and CA points changes.
Let the "meta" settle for a year or so.

-

   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






My problem is I seek after Sun Tzu's philosophy to know thy enemy and know myself (shortened if course). Even in 7th I could keep up with most of the armies. However, Now I can only keep up with my armies and the lists I see on Thursday nights at my flgs. I used to be able to know/study/understand every other army, but with so much content I am no longer able to keep up with the complexities of other armies.. and it is affecting my ability to bring my best game (not my best army, but knowing how to use my army against my opponent).

There rules bloat has taken a degree of fun away in that manner.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





the_scotsman wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Back in my day we had to wait 5- 7 years between codexes and we liked it *grumble*

But yes, keeping up with content and even models is a nightmare. I paint maybe 1 or 2 armies a year and I just can't keep up. I'm not even chasing the meta.

I do make large armies though...


Codex in the past must have really been writen with much better rule sets then now, because I can't imagine someone playing something like GK for 7 years with hope that maybe the codex gets better, only to get a copy past codex later on, and live with the prospect of another 5-7 years waiting.


hahahahahahahahahaha

nope.

Competitive metas were 1-2 armies for entire editions pretty much. Sometimes I try to imagine the brain anyeurism that the spoiled-ass 8th edition crowd would get if we had something like the Codex Space Marines to Codex Space Wolves comparison in modern 40k, where Space Wolves were literally just space marines for the exact same cost with a host of extra free gak lumped onto them for "flavor".


Exactly this. Karol your negative feedback towards their efforts doesn't encourage them to improve it, it discourages it. There's a constructive way to say "hey you missed the mark on this specific point", without just being a spoiled brat about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/16 11:07:19


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
Codex in the past must have really been writen with much better rule sets then now, because I can't imagine someone playing something like GK for 7 years with hope that maybe the codex gets better, only to get a copy past codex later on, and live with the prospect of another 5-7 years waiting.
It was pretty bad. Took them 3 1/2 years to do something about the shambles of a 5e codex the GK had, 5 years to fix chaos 3.5...

But in all seriousness the daemonhunters update cycle was 8 years (not the longest - Crons 9 1/2 years, DE 12 years). It wasn't just a matter of waiting out a weak codex, long update times meant the game would undergoing significant balance and rules changes that were rarely retroactive. GK were paying 20pts over the odds for heavy weapons, rocking 4++(melee only) storm shields, chimeras with one firepoint, and landraiders without machine spirits to name a few as 5e rolled on - makes you appreciate the extra content a little more when you played through that.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Drager wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Oh yeah too much content for peoples armies.. must be a real bummer!

im sitting here with a bunch of failcast 15 year old sculpts :p.


Exactly this lol. We're spoiled for content. I just feel bad for people playing the niche armies that missed the boat. Unbelievable that people complain about having more, optional, additions, added to their army.
Don't feel too sorry for us. We'll get a new model in another 2 years on regular pace (no updates to old models of course), but one new unit would be sweet and I think we will see one around 2021 (the last one was in 2011, before that 2001)! I hope it's a HQ being able to legally take 2 battalions with no special characters would be awesome!


Could be worse: some (many?) armies have *lost* more units than they've gained in the last 5 years.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Bharring wrote:
Drager wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Oh yeah too much content for peoples armies.. must be a real bummer!

im sitting here with a bunch of failcast 15 year old sculpts :p.


Exactly this lol. We're spoiled for content. I just feel bad for people playing the niche armies that missed the boat. Unbelievable that people complain about having more, optional, additions, added to their army.
Don't feel too sorry for us. We'll get a new model in another 2 years on regular pace (no updates to old models of course), but one new unit would be sweet and I think we will see one around 2021 (the last one was in 2011, before that 2001)! I hope it's a HQ being able to legally take 2 battalions with no special characters would be awesome!


Could be worse: some (many?) armies have *lost* more units than they've gained in the last 5 years.


Yeah, like the army he's referring to unless I'm wrong.

In the last decade, DE have gained one (1) multipart plastic kit with 5 guys for 40$ that is totally monopose (the arms are molded so that you can only glue them on one way and the whole body and direction the head is facing is fully dicatated to you) and 3 plastic character clampacks, which helpfully GW has made the only legal weapons loadout for our HQs.

Since the relaunch in fifth every codex has had dark eldar lose options and units. we even haven't had rules for the freakin' marneus calgar of our faction who all the fluff was about and continues to be about and they don't have a fething model or rules for him. We have 3 named characters, 1 of which hasn't done anything in the lore since his model came out in 3rd ed. All the named characters who actually appear in the fluff no longer exist in the model range lol.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





DE were the first army that popped into mind. But many other armies - Nids, CWE, Corsairs, Necrons, etc - aren't too far off.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

SHUPPET wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Back in my day we had to wait 5- 7 years between codexes and we liked it *grumble*

But yes, keeping up with content and even models is a nightmare. I paint maybe 1 or 2 armies a year and I just can't keep up. I'm not even chasing the meta.

I do make large armies though...


Codex in the past must have really been writen with much better rule sets then now, because I can't imagine someone playing something like GK for 7 years with hope that maybe the codex gets better, only to get a copy past codex later on, and live with the prospect of another 5-7 years waiting.


hahahahahahahahahaha

nope.

Competitive metas were 1-2 armies for entire editions pretty much. Sometimes I try to imagine the brain anyeurism that the spoiled-ass 8th edition crowd would get if we had something like the Codex Space Marines to Codex Space Wolves comparison in modern 40k, where Space Wolves were literally just space marines for the exact same cost with a host of extra free gak lumped onto them for "flavor".


Exactly this. Karol never stops whining about balance in an edition where balance has never been tighter. Your negative feedback towards their efforts doesn't encourage them to improve it, it discourages it. There's a constructive way to say "hey you missed the mark on this specific point", without just being a spoiled brat about it.


8th is probably the "most balanced" edition yet.

We all know GK suck currently, its lame, I wish it wasnt so. But bitching about it does exactly 0% to help the predicament. It also doesnt help that you(Karol) play in one of the worst metas ever(by your own admission).

   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge




Bharring wrote:
DE were the first army that popped into mind. But many other armies - Nids, CWE, Corsairs, Necrons, etc - aren't too far off.
I was referring to DE. I play bis CWE and Corsairs too, but Corsairs don't count and Nids/CWE have much more love than DE (though nids are still on the low end).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Drager wrote:
Bharring wrote:
DE were the first army that popped into mind. But many other armies - Nids, CWE, Corsairs, Necrons, etc - aren't too far off.
I was referring to DE. I play bis CWE and Corsairs too, but Corsairs don't count and Nids/CWE have much more love than DE (though nids are still on the low end).

Totally agree. DE have it much worse than Nids/CWE.

Certainly one area that Marines have it great.
   
Made in vn
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Slipspace wrote:Turns out a huge chunk of the rules for Chaos are actually in Vigilus.
I'm curious. What is it in Vigilus that you guys wouldn't consider part of an optional expansion? I'm not defending it or anything. I'm actually asking, because I haven't read it.

Smotejob wrote:My problem is I seek after Sun Tzu's philosophy to know thy enemy and know myself (shortened if course). Even in 7th I could keep up with most of the armies. However, Now I can only keep up with my armies and the lists I see on Thursday nights at my flgs. I used to be able to know/study/understand every other army, but with so much content I am no longer able to keep up with the complexities of other armies.. and it is affecting my ability to bring my best game (not my best army, but knowing how to use my army against my opponent).

There rules bloat has taken a degree of fun away in that manner.

When you put it this way, it sounds awesome! Having too much stuff to master sounds to me like there will always be new avenues of the game to explore.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




To me Vigilus highlights a problem that goes back to 7th edition. I either have the complete rules for my army or I don't. I primarily play space marines and to me there is no such thing as optional expansions. Any supplement or WD release is mandatory or I'm playing my faction with out the complete omnibus of options. I wish GW would do more to consolidate it's rules releases.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

The problem is they seemed unwilling to have books go obsolete.
CSM 2nd edition gives me hope.

I have a Codex.
I have a FAQ (latest).
I must also have the two Chapter Approved.
Then any fiddly pieces of rules that come out with new models until something is written (we must have these or get no new models otherwise).
Nevermind the BRB and it's FAQ.

Chapter Approved should contain completely all rules updates outlined in the prior CA book(s) and the FAQ that came before..
The FAQ should cover everything CA does not have (so no waiting for rules between CA releases)..
Then you can reboot everything by making a new edition of the "bloated" codex and repeat the cycle.

I see this as being the only "reasonable" method where if you have say 2 armies being played together you would have 2 Codex books, ONE Chapter Approved, and a couple of FAQ's if done right should not be bigger than a page.

I do not agree that content fatigue is setting in just yet, if they start publishing Codex "supplements" or special "Formation Rules" with a GW special purchase, then we may be back to the bad old days.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Talizvar wrote:
The problem is they seemed unwilling to have books go obsolete.
CSM 2nd edition gives me hope.

I have a Codex.
I have a FAQ (latest).
I must also have the two Chapter Approved.
Then any fiddly pieces of rules that come out with new models until something is written (we must have these or get no new models otherwise).
Nevermind the BRB and it's FAQ.

Chapter Approved should contain completely all rules updates outlined in the prior CA book(s) and the FAQ that came before..
The FAQ should cover everything CA does not have (so no waiting for rules between CA releases)..
Then you can reboot everything by making a new edition of the "bloated" codex and repeat the cycle.

I see this as being the only "reasonable" method where if you have say 2 armies being played together you would have 2 Codex books, ONE Chapter Approved, and a couple of FAQ's if done right should not be bigger than a page.

I do not agree that content fatigue is setting in just yet, if they start publishing Codex "supplements" or special "Formation Rules" with a GW special purchase, then we may be back to the bad old days.


I dunno even the 2nd edition of codex choas space marines suffers from the "fear of obselescance" issue.if they where willing to allow books to be obselete codex CSM could have for example made new and better legion trait rules etc to fix a few of the "overly weak ones"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/22 21:32:37


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






You only need 93 documents, it's not that bad. /s

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY TWO (142) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 BaconCatBug wrote:
You only need 93 documents, it's not that bad. /s


-_- I think I need 7 books at most right now.

Theoretically, I think the maximum is:
Astartes detachment with models from each codex with the astartes keyword: BA, SW, DA, SM, GK, DW, Vanguard pamphlet. 6 books, one packet
Something Else Imperial. 1 book
Something Else Imperial. 1 book
Forge World models for each of those armies: 2 more books
CA2018
BRB
Vigilus
Assassins WD
Index SM, and Index, Imperial 2

That's 15 books, 2 pamphlets, and it's an extreme case.


The maximum number of books at play between two players would probably then be your opponent being:
CWE
DE
Harlequins
Index Xenos
Index Imperial Armor Xenos
WD Ynnari

for an additional 5 books and 1 pamphlet

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/22 21:49:13


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

He keeps peddling that line line it’s truth, I wouldn’t worry. Not everyone wants to play every army at once, so it’s a total non-issue.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 JohnnyHell wrote:
He keeps peddling that line line it’s truth, I wouldn’t worry. Not everyone wants to play every army at once, so it’s a total non-issue.


I don't think there's even 93 books though, total.

Spoiler:

BRB
CA2018
Obsolete: CA2017
5 Indecies
2 Vigilus
11 Imperial: IG, SM, SW, BA, DA, SoB, GK, DW, IK, AM, Custodes
2 Chaos: Daemons, CSM [Obsolete: old CSM codex]
3 Eldar: CWE, DE, Harlequins
2 Tyranids: Tyranids, GSC
1 Orks
1 Tau
1 Necrons
4 Imperial Amor Indecies

That's 34 books.

Then there's the Vanguard pamphlet, and a couple of sets of White Dwarf rules. There's also a single SM CT found in a BL book somewhere.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JohnnyHell wrote:
He keeps peddling that line line it’s truth, I wouldn’t worry. Not everyone wants to play every army at once, so it’s a total non-issue.


Your peddling an equal falsehood though. Yes he's being a bit hyperbolic but the underlying point is no wrong.

To have the complete rules just for one army I play Space marines I need the following

Codex Space Marine
Index Space Marine
Forge World index
Various FAQs
CA
White Dwarfs
The vanguard mini codex

Thats three books and almost half a dozen side documents and that's just to play one army.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

Nope. I'm only really concerned with knowing the armies/models I'm currently playing (SM, SW, & Demons {Khorne only}).
And to a lesser extent those that I play against most often.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





HoundsofDemos wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
He keeps peddling that line line it’s truth, I wouldn’t worry. Not everyone wants to play every army at once, so it’s a total non-issue.


Your peddling an equal falsehood though. Yes he's being a bit hyperbolic but the underlying point is no wrong.

To have the complete rules just for one army I play Space marines I need the following

Codex Space Marine
Index Space Marine
Forge World index
Various FAQs
CA
White Dwarfs
The vanguard mini codex

Thats three books and almost half a dozen side documents and that's just to play one army.


Is 6 books really so bad, though?

The minimum is 3: BRB, CA, and your Codex. To have all the potential rules for a single faction, you need a Codex, an Index, an IA Index, and potentially a Vigilus. That's still not a lot or unreasonable amount of books.

15 might be an egregious number of rules, but that's a number come upon by deliberately trying to include as many units from different books as legally possible.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/22 22:25:07


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I consider it a lot of books especially after GW originally seemed to recognize the content creep that was 7th and at the start of 8th had cut back. It's now slipping back the other way again.

When I started in 5th you needed the BRB a codex and a FAQ and that gave you everything. Now you need a lot more than that and if you play soup then I hope you brought a backpack or duffel bag.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





keep in mind people talk about a ton of books but that's in part largely because of soup.

if you don't choose to soup the most number of books a C:SM player needs is basicly the codex, vigilus defiant, the phmplet and a forge world book assuming you want your FW stuff. Yes if you want to run some complicated soup you need more books but hey, the decision to run the soup is yours.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Yeah its a lot of rules in lots of different places. Theres no hiding that elephant in the room.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I consider it a lot of books especially after GW originally seemed to recognize the content creep that was 7th and at the start of 8th had cut back. It's now slipping back the other way again.

When I started in 5th you needed the BRB a codex and a FAQ and that gave you everything. Now you need a lot more than that and if you play soup then I hope you brought a backpack or duffel bag.

I like how you included the IA index for the current edition needs but have decided to emit things like the Badab War books for 5th.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 04:57:28


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'll concede the above point about forge world back in 5th. Slipped my mind because when I started in 5th FW wasn't a thing in my local area and was treated as shadowy boogieman that wasn't real 40k.

I still think my over all point stands. I really would like GW to consolidate rules into less sources. I still really don't get why CA is separate from the FAQs

   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'll concede the above point about forge world back in 5th. Slipped my mind because when I started in 5th FW wasn't a thing in my local area and was treated as shadowy boogieman that wasn't real 40k.

I still think my over all point stands. I really would like GW to consolidate rules into less sources. I still really don't get why CA is separate from the FAQs



Because they can't make a CA 2-3 times a year, and we would like more frequent updates than once a year.

In addition, CA isn't just minute errata like the FAQ, it's got some major stuff in it [like my Codex], mission packets, and other things.

I really like the way they're doing things now. I was suspicious of the Vigilus books, and still am, but the rest of it is really nice I think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 02:03:45


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: