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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





RevlidRas wrote:
It's a little strange to claim that Oldmarines have crap rules to ensure that Primaris sell better, considering loads of brand new releases have had crap rules lately, including Primaris models.

I appreciate that it's comforting to assume a grand conspiracy driving Games Workshop to cynically undermine its game design for the sake of encouraging people to buy The Next Big Thing. I get that. But isn't it more likely they're just bad at writing rules in general?


Actually I think its a grand consipraicy to undermine the 1.0 Marines for the grand new thing, and as much for balance as anything else. I think the Primaris Project is an attempt to rebalance Marines to deal with the MEQ armies who have a 3+ and a (something - i.e Reanimation protocols, Custodes, etc) A 20 wound Intercessor Squad is ~170 points. A 10 wound Tactical Squad is... ~170 points. Old Marines will be cost effective for what they do until they have a replacement. As soon as Assault Primaris Marines - Belligerators - the next edition they and assault marines will be the same price. And Belligerators will be better.

I Think they're going to let the players "squad" the old marines all by themselves by making Primaris a more attractive game choice. Better squads for the same points. Let the old marines fill in the holes while the studio gets the new models and rules read. The natural tendency for players to make better lists will phase out the 1.0 Marines all on it's own. They won't have to do anything.

I don't think the slow release of the Primaris line has anything to do with some grand strategy of weaning people off older marines and onto Primaris. I think it has everything to do with not having enough time to create the models, create the fluff, and create the rules. And maybe a little to do with not overwhelming people with a giant wish/shopping list.

If they were the marketing geniuses everyone here thinks they are, they would have released Contrast Paints (the time equivalent to one or two model kits bought, assembled and painted for an average collector) before they released Primaris. By doing it so far after all the already released Primaris people are going to have the dilemma over whether to switch to contrast, or stick to classic to maintain their aesthetic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 04:37:26


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






I think the use of the word "conspiracy" is pretty silly here, but that's kind of the thing to do now on the internet. It's not a conspiracy. It's simply a logical and sound business strategy of how to move from old marines to Primaris and eventually kill off the old marine line in the (likely) distant future.

There's nothing conspiratorial about it. Admittedly GW isn't going to come out and present it like that publicly, but that's just being smart. GW didn't become a roaring success over the past few years by making products simply based on the goodness of their hearts...they're a very calculating business. That's not a bad thing. Pretending they're not acting in their best interest at all times....that's the silly part.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 06:59:15


 
   
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It's not a conspiracy, it's basic business sense. The new shiny gets the most attention.
   
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I doubt we'll see many if any new old Marines now, but at the same time I expect GW'll sell em and support em rules wise. Primaris may have been introduced to solve a logistical issue. Old Marines have hit a point design wise where they where as good, model wise, as they where going to get. to go further they'd have to change the basic design. (see the new CSMs as a good example) but if they tried to do this change voer with regular marines it would be... disruptive, considering the number of interchangable kits. So Primaris may just be GW trying to have their cake and eat it too

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Made in us
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BrianDavion wrote:
that's entirely possiable. it's also possiable they planned to be cautious and test the waters from the get go, I mean Marines make up 60% of GW sales, so they'd be understandably very very careful about killing the goost that laid the golden egg. I tend to agree it's unlikely we'll get any old Marine kits but... what do we need? Old Marines is a pretty complete range. hence the bloat.


Oldmarines are beyond complete, it's a guy in power armor, wrapped in bubble wrap that has it's own power armor and his twelve dozen extra specialer friends. I genuinely thought the description of centurions was satire of 40k back when I first heard of them, and it just kept going from there.

Look at some of the other factions, like GSC(exclusively, not including IG or nids), they're very nearly a complete faction with what they have. Hell, there's already a bit of character bloat. And either toss super heavies from the game or give them one of their own and they'll be more or less a complete concept(look GW, you said macro rig, I just want to see it ok). There's 30 store entries for that, which is roughly how many units they have.

Now look at old marines. 100 or so entries there discounting primaris. Most other factions? 30 to 50. And all those extra kits manage what? It's certainly not generate a clean design space. It's mostly "Lets see how many more gun barrels we can cram onto one model" or "Hey, these guys are the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite only better with a 3+ invun!".

What needs to happen is all the old marines suddenly catch crib death and we clear the table for a less bloated faction. But that would make people real angry, so we got a half solution where we slowly, quietly, suffocate one more old marine every night until they're all gone and primaris have a complete range. That, or compress the design space by declaring all overly special marines to simply be one customizable class of veteran marines allowing people to keep their bling and clear enough room that perhaps tacticals could matter again. But I somehow imagine that'd generate an even worse reaction.
   
Made in us
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BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt we'll see many if any new old Marines now, but at the same time I expect GW'll sell em and support em rules wise. Primaris may have been introduced to solve a logistical issue. Old Marines have hit a point design wise where they where as good, model wise, as they where going to get. to go further they'd have to change the basic design. (see the new CSMs as a good example) but if they tried to do this change voer with regular marines it would be... disruptive, considering the number of interchangable kits. So Primaris may just be GW trying to have their cake and eat it too


I think they went Primaris to try and rebalance marines in the game, not over any sort of miniature thing. So many MEQ armies have MEQ plus some special army defining ability/gimmick. They don't want to make Space Marines cheaper/less effective than those armies so they're trying to raise Marines to that level rather than knock down the supersoldier hobbyist drawing power of Marines.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

There was a time when when I'd rant and rave about this but now?

Call this a lament.

I started collecting marines way way back when 40k appeared and I've been hooked ever since. While the basic plastic marines from 2nd weren't great, I still happily bought,built and painted them. With 3rd, we got the highly detailed kits. I got a buzz everytime I opened a box.

With Primaris, it was very different. Seeing the first pictures of them, I didn't get that 'buzz' that I had got in the past. I did get the first boxed set,just to see what they were like. After building them, I didn't feel any urge to do anything with them, which was odd. Then I realised I don't have any affinity with them. Yes, they are marines but to me they are not the marines I know.

Lately I have been raiding Ebay for standard marine tactical squads,so far about 130 of them, kind of building up a stock for projects ongoing. I won't actually buy any primaris stuff as my era of 40k seems to be coming to an end which is sad, but ho-hum.

What I will say is that I think Primaris are for the regular players of the game, whereas the standard ones have more appeal to the collectors and painters like myself who don't really play anymore.

Some of you mention that marine players probably had more than enough to construct their armies, and so maybe weren't buying enough of the range, so that's why GW brought in Primaris.

What I will ask is;
1) Would it have made more sense to have brought in MK9 armour marines instead of Primaris? And gradually replaced the range that way, like replacing a MK8 tactical squad with a MK9 squad boxset?
2) More armour variiants and even more new vehicles? I know the fluff states that technology is difficult in the 40k universe, but if you can build one tank you can build another slightly different or are the engineers really that stupid?

I think that things like that could have been done and it would have rejuvenated the marine range, instead of expecting players/collectors/modelers to go back to square one and start from scratch.

I'm not leaving 40k, just staying at a point that I find enjoyable.And, as long as I can find what I want on Ebay and at a reasonable price then I'll continue!

As I said, not a moan or a complaint, just a Lament.

 
   
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Elite Tyranid Warrior




Roscommon, Ireland

I've only recently started collecting Marines, which is odd as I have been playing 40K from 2nd edition (Eldar and Tyranids were my go to). What made me collect Marines for the first time were the Horus Heresy era models. So far I have 2 boxes of Betrayal at Calth, and I plan on expanding the collection.

Primaris don't really interest me, just bigger more specialised Marines.

So even if the old Marine line is complete, which it was at the end of 4th edition, theyy will still sell.

I do wonder if GW are planning on either updating the lines for all the factions or shifting the focus for all factions. Eldar and Tyranids do have some very old kits. If GW don't replace them they may introduce a new unit that performs better and let the older unit slowly die off. It makes business sense to keep the lines robust and fresh.

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The new start collecting spacewolves box is all Primaris. Shock and Awe.



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

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UK

Interesting to see if that Primaris Wolves SC runs alongside or replaces the mini marine one.

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Mississippi

Hmm. Might have to pick up the outgoing SW SC. I’ve been wanting some Thunderwolves for my Dark Angels counts-as.

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phillv85 wrote:
Interesting to see if that Primaris Wolves SC runs alongside or replaces the mini marine one.


agreed, it's possiable this won't replace the old SW SC but suppelment it. note that it's not called "start collecting Space Wolves" but "Start Collecting Primaris Space Wolves" so it could not displace the old SW SC box. (in which case the absolute best place to start a Space Wolf army would be to buy one of each box)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that's entirely possiable. it's also possiable they planned to be cautious and test the waters from the get go, I mean Marines make up 60% of GW sales, so they'd be understandably very very careful about killing the goost that laid the golden egg. I tend to agree it's unlikely we'll get any old Marine kits but... what do we need? Old Marines is a pretty complete range. hence the bloat.


Oldmarines are beyond complete, it's a guy in power armor, wrapped in bubble wrap that has it's own power armor and his twelve dozen extra specialer friends. I genuinely thought the description of centurions was satire of 40k back when I first heard of them, and it just kept going from there.

Look at some of the other factions, like GSC(exclusively, not including IG or nids), they're very nearly a complete faction with what they have. Hell, there's already a bit of character bloat. And either toss super heavies from the game or give them one of their own and they'll be more or less a complete concept(look GW, you said macro rig, I just want to see it ok). There's 30 store entries for that, which is roughly how many units they have.

Now look at old marines. 100 or so entries there discounting primaris. Most other factions? 30 to 50. And all those extra kits manage what? It's certainly not generate a clean design space. It's mostly "Lets see how many more gun barrels we can cram onto one model" or "Hey, these guys are the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite only better with a 3+ invun!".

What needs to happen is all the old marines suddenly catch crib death and we clear the table for a less bloated faction. But that would make people real angry, so we got a half solution where we slowly, quietly, suffocate one more old marine every night until they're all gone and primaris have a complete range. That, or compress the design space by declaring all overly special marines to simply be one customizable class of veteran marines allowing people to keep their bling and clear enough room that perhaps tacticals could matter again. But I somehow imagine that'd generate an even worse reaction.


getting rid of old Marines would have been a horriable idea. people like the range. but at the same time the range suffers from the flaws of being, as you said "beyond complete" units like the Centurion imply GW essentially have reached the end of the ideas they can have for standard Marines. also the kits themselves, GW is limited buy the number of basic marine kits that are all intended to be interchangeable. they'd never be able to do a drastic rework of the range well keeping them all at basic marines, it'd be a logistical nightmare and proably not very popular.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 20:00:16


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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YeOldSaltPotato wrote:

I would be very surprised if we saw new old marines ever again. But I bet you we'll see more design callbacks to iconic old marine pieces in future primaris along with more radical departures. I just hope they don't let them bloat as much.
Bloat is already there in droves. We have 5 varieties of bolt gun already! Not to mention bolt storm etc
   
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

Not for a long time, but they are not the main focus anymore. They are a complete range.

It is flawed in many ways however, and the Primaris don't share the same design errors. To simply bring in a new armour mark is not the answer. The range needs optimising, streamlining and a minor design re-boot. Hence we have Primaris.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 09:07:45


-~Ishagu~- 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Slipstream wrote:
There was a time when when I'd rant and rave about this but now?
Call this a lament.
I started collecting marines way way back when 40k appeared and I've been hooked ever since. While the basic plastic marines from 2nd weren't great, I still happily bought,built and painted them. With 3rd, we got the highly detailed kits. I got a buzz everytime I opened a box.
With Primaris, it was very different. Seeing the first pictures of them, I didn't get that 'buzz' that I had got in the past. I did get the first boxed set,just to see what they were like. After building them, I didn't feel any urge to do anything with them, which was odd. Then I realised I don't have any affinity with them. Yes, they are marines but to me they are not the marines I know.
Lately I have been raiding Ebay for standard marine tactical squads,so far about 130 of them, kind of building up a stock for projects ongoing. I won't actually buy any primaris stuff as my era of 40k seems to be coming to an end which is sad, but ho-hum.
What I will say is that I think Primaris are for the regular players of the game, whereas the standard ones have more appeal to the collectors and painters like myself who don't really play anymore.


For me, it’s the opposite.

When I see how model ranges ‘change’ over the years, I’m reminded of stuff I learned in school about genetic ‘drift’ and genetic ‘shift’. Briefly, in the case in the former, it is a slow, gradual accumulation of changes in a population that over a certain period of time (or even geographical distance) result in an entirely different species. In the case of the latter, it is generally a sudden sharp, (typically environmental in nature) pressure that forces a sudden change in a population (typically in terms of ‘attractive’ traits, that were up to this point marginal, or irrelevant, but all of a sudden, are now suddenly useful – an example most people are familiar with being the black and white moths and the industrial revolution).

I use the terms ‘drift’ and ‘shift’ loosely with regard to 40k, with the slow, gradual accumulations in the SM line as ‘drift’ and the sudden change/introduction of Primaris as a ‘shift’.

I remember as a kid being intrigued by 40k for years before I was finally able to get into it properly. This was 3rd ed 40k by the way. When I did, it was with Space Wolves. Back then, it was the ‘classic’ SM tactical box, and the ‘classic’ Space Wolves pack box. Both felt to me to be no-nonsense kits. Nothing over the top. Space Wolves felt like Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour. Marines were marines. And then, over the years, things started to change, and the new SM models were slowly, but subtly blinged up. More and more so with every new release. First time I noted it was thr 4th ed tyrannic war veterans, and veteran SM. With robes and greebles. Still felt more ‘marine’ than ‘ornament’ though. But over time, for me, the sense of ‘ornament’ began to eclipse the ‘marine’. Sternguard and vanguard were the 'this is getting over the top' point for me. It got ridiculous by the time 5th ed was around, with Space Wolves changing from Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour to becoming a barbarian/wolf cartoon, with a tiny amount of Space Marine flavour. Blood Angels were ‘blood-nouns’. And for me, the high (or rather low point of this) was Marneus Calgar and his honour guard. Specifically, the model I refer to as ‘wing-face’. For me, by this point Marines had ‘drifted’ to the point where they had gotten silly. Very silly. There was nothing that said 'marine' about them. It was all about the bling. And the ornaments. They stopped being Marines and started being walking chalices. There was nothing 'no-nonsense' about them. They were a cartoon parody of what they’d been. Lumier from beauty and the beast had a stronger space marine aesthetic than some of the walking tabernackles that gw were producing.

It became all too clear to me when I came across an awesome model company called Anvil Industry and their sublime ‘Exo-lord’ range. Specifically, the black ops ‘ahem, totally-not-marines’ range. Here were no-nonsense 'marines'. No bling. No ornaments. No faff. No silly crap. Just pouches, grenades, knives, spare magazines. Thry felt and looked like geared up badasses ready to go and crack some skulls. They were Maybe a tiny bit ‘tacti-cool’ but all of a sudden I had the ‘look’ that I wanted. And as I saw them, I knew gw marines had completely lost that 'look' and I wished gw marines were more like anvil exo-lords.

So then a wee bit later and GW releases Primaris, and the long genetic ‘drift’ that had, for me, defined and undermined marines for too long suddenly ended with a decisive ‘shift’ to a model that was, again, no-nonsense marines. No bling. No ornaments. No faffs. Just perfectly, what id always wanted marines to be.

Truth be told, marines had stopped being marines for me a long time ago. Primaris ended the foolishness and brought them back in line with what id always wanted them to be.

Slipstream wrote:

What I will ask is;
1) Would it have made more sense to have brought in MK9 armour marines instead of Primaris? And gradually replaced the range that way, like replacing a MK8 tactical squad with a MK9 squad boxset?
2) More armour variiants and even more new vehicles? I know the fluff states that technology is difficult in the 40k universe, but if you can build one tank you can build another slightly different or are the engineers really that stupid?
I think that things like that could have been done and it would have rejuvenated the marine range, instead of expecting players/collectors/modelers to go back to square one and start from scratch.


1) don't know. It risks being Malibu Stacy, just with a new hat. I mean, is it functionally the 'same' old kit, in terms of rules? Comparisons with the hh mkiii and Mkiv armours don't link, as they were pushing 30k. Mk8 armours is just a facelift on mk7. Here's the thing. The majority of what 'sells' in this industry is 'new' stuff, hence the 'wave' nature of releases. You need 'new' stuff to sell. And the marine range was essentially mined out.doing a facelift, but functionally not changing anything risks a lot of backblast, because it's gw not even trying something new, and just doing a face lift on their range. Why would people buy 'new' tactical marines under these circumstances? Would they sell? Would it solve gw's problems of 'where can we go next with marines?' Don't just think this year. Think, like gw, in terms of can this work for ten years. At least with primaris, they gained the opportunity to reset, reboot, open up a whole new area of design space to mine.
2) don't know. They've been doing this for years, maybe they just ran out of new hats to give to Malibu stacy. Could gw have looked at the previous sales numbers for this approach, and maybe determined they couldn't just continue doing this?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 10:04:14


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Holy Terra

I couldn't agree more about the over bling sentiment of the classic line.
They actually ran out of ideas long ago. We don't need 4 Terminator variants just in the vanilla codex, we don't need multiple veteran units with different datasheets that are almost exactly the same. The Sternguard and some of the HQ's looks ridiculous and wouldn't even be able to walk in real life.

I'm baffled that people want MORE armour marks on the same Marines. How many more redundant units do people want for the line? In effect you don't want anything new and improved, just more confusing variation.
The Primaris resemble the Horus Heresy Astartes that are incredibly popular. Many people see the 30k Marine designs as the best. Well here you go - Primaris are more true to that aesthetic and function.

GW made mistakes with classic Marines. Their lore limited their growth, they flooded the market with loads of silly blinged up versions of units. SW in particular started to get pretty silly. Blood Angels perhaps went too far. The new Primaris offer much better looking units that have a more clear and defined function.

Old Marines are not getting moth-balled. They'll be supported in production and rules for many years to come. Primaris Marines will be the new main focus and have been gradually introduced. Anyone has the time to build up a force at a nice, friendly pace.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 10:09:16


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 Ishagu wrote:
I couldn't agree more about the over bling sentiment of the classic line.
They actually ran out of ideas long ago. We don't need 4 Terminator variants just in the vanilla codex, we don't need multiple veteran units with different datasheets that are almost exactly the same. The Sternguard and some of the HQ's looks ridiculous and wouldn't even be able to walk in real life.

I'm baffled that people want MORE armour marks on the same Marines. How many more redundant units do people want for the line? In effect you don't want anything new and improved, just more confusing variation.
The Primaris resemble the Horus Heresy Astartes that are incredibly popular. Many people see the 30k Marine designs as the best. Well here you go - Primaris are more true to that aesthetic and function.

GW made mistakes with classic Marines. Their lore limited their growth, they flooded the market with loads of silly blinged up versions of units. SW in particular started to get pretty silly. Blood Angels perhaps went too far. The new Primaris offer much better looking units that have a more clear and defined function.

Old Marines are not getting moth-balled. They'll be supported in production and rules for many years to come. Primaris Marines will be the new main focus and have been gradually introduced. Anyone has the time to build up a force at a nice, friendly pace.



We have 4 terminators variants because the plastics were made for HH and it was daft not to include them in 40k they are also distinct with trade off’s made in the rules.

As for redundant units remind me again of the entire Primaris range which units are “not” redundant compared to hell blasters. Also even in the very limited case of weapon options for Primaris units there is a correct choice and then the redundant other options.

Hmmm new and “improved” eh while the aesthetics are debatable and I’m not sure what original models the Repulsive and Fat Dread are supposed to look better than, on the rules side Primaris are a dumpster fire of epic proportions I mean an all Primaris force is not an auto lose well as long as 50% of your points are Hellblasters anyway :p

The Primaris only resemble the 30k legions in the sense of being pale knock offs looked at through the lens of the main studio that inflicted Wolfe mc wolffyson of the wolves and bloody blood man of the blood marines with the blood sword on the original marines, and if you don’t think that gak is heading towards the Giganto marines in the near future I have a bridge to sell you.
The Primaris tacticool Call of Dutah models bare no resemblance to the 30k marines at all. The 30k marines have character and style the Primaris are the definition of bland just like there rules.

Limited there lore growth dear god the lore is the point without the lore you get .... well Primaris a faction with all the personality of a love island contestant. The only personality is likely to come from embiggening existing characters and taking over existing chapters which is kinda ironic.

Also if you think most proper marines are not direct only by this time next year then you are definitely the kind customer GW likes.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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The fat dread is nice looking, but I hate him because every time someone goes to shoot him they assume he's T8. Aesthetic is subjective anyway. I personally like the look of the new dreadnought and it makes sense for there to be extra armour around the box that houses the body as opposed to putting it on display at center mass.

I also wouldn't say anything is supposed to look better than anything unless it's supposed to be a direct replacement, abaddon for instance. Rules wise could you imagine the outrage if Primaris were outright better across the board, I know I wouldn't be pleased about it.

I still don't get this tacticool argument? Do soldiers not have pouches in real life? That extra ammo has to go somewhere or do marines walk into battle with one magazine?

To me Primaris marines are super soldiers in armour, I like bling and stuff for characters and veterans but otherwise my marines have no extra stuff I'm very conservative with extra bits. Ironically my Primaris models have the most extra bits of all my marines thanks to all the pouches they come with that also look correct and have a place
   
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Holy Terra

SeanDrake wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
I couldn't agree more about the over bling sentiment of the classic line.
They actually ran out of ideas long ago. We don't need 4 Terminator variants just in the vanilla codex, we don't need multiple veteran units with different datasheets that are almost exactly the same. The Sternguard and some of the HQ's looks ridiculous and wouldn't even be able to walk in real life.

I'm baffled that people want MORE armour marks on the same Marines. How many more redundant units do people want for the line? In effect you don't want anything new and improved, just more confusing variation.
The Primaris resemble the Horus Heresy Astartes that are incredibly popular. Many people see the 30k Marine designs as the best. Well here you go - Primaris are more true to that aesthetic and function.

GW made mistakes with classic Marines. Their lore limited their growth, they flooded the market with loads of silly blinged up versions of units. SW in particular started to get pretty silly. Blood Angels perhaps went too far. The new Primaris offer much better looking units that have a more clear and defined function.

Old Marines are not getting moth-balled. They'll be supported in production and rules for many years to come. Primaris Marines will be the new main focus and have been gradually introduced. Anyone has the time to build up a force at a nice, friendly pace.



We have 4 terminators variants because the plastics were made for HH and it was daft not to include them in 40k they are also distinct with trade off’s made in the rules.

As for redundant units remind me again of the entire Primaris range which units are “not” redundant compared to hell blasters. Also even in the very limited case of weapon options for Primaris units there is a correct choice and then the redundant other options.

Hmmm new and “improved” eh while the aesthetics are debatable and I’m not sure what original models the Repulsive and Fat Dread are supposed to look better than, on the rules side Primaris are a dumpster fire of epic proportions I mean an all Primaris force is not an auto lose well as long as 50% of your points are Hellblasters anyway :p

The Primaris only resemble the 30k legions in the sense of being pale knock offs looked at through the lens of the main studio that inflicted Wolfe mc wolffyson of the wolves and bloody blood man of the blood marines with the blood sword on the original marines, and if you don’t think that gak is heading towards the Giganto marines in the near future I have a bridge to sell you.
The Primaris tacticool Call of Dutah models bare no resemblance to the 30k marines at all. The 30k marines have character and style the Primaris are the definition of bland just like there rules.

Limited there lore growth dear god the lore is the point without the lore you get .... well Primaris a faction with all the personality of a love island contestant. The only personality is likely to come from embiggening existing characters and taking over existing chapters which is kinda ironic.

Also if you think most proper marines are not direct only by this time next year then you are definitely the kind customer GW likes.


Sounds like you're pretty set in your ways. You should collect old Marines or another faction. There are no redundant Primaris units because they all have a different functions. What's the point of Tyrannic War Veterans when you have Sternguard? How about Assault Marines and Vanguard Veterans? How about a Company Ancient and Chapter Ancient? This is what I'm talking about when I mention bloat and redundancy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 12:32:31


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I hope on the classic vs normal marines we will see more what GW did with dark angels, blood angels and space wolves... but better as they started doing mroe and mroe distinguishing kits. space wolves having thier hq dred, wolvees, wolf riders, flyer etc. I just worry if GW does the same thing with Primaris that they did with classic marines but keep up releasing kits at the current rater that the primaris range will be as overcomplete and redundant as the previous space marine line and we will have to enter Space marines 3.0. Cawl finds the old Ravenguard research splices it with thunder warrior dna plus primaris to stabilizer and boom they have their next line.

I already wish GW had not put all of the Primaris in the specialist codexes. Hellblasters should be vanilla codex, another kit for blood angels, another one for space wolves, dark angels. I worry at this rate space marines will be oversaturated with kits (and I think they worry about it already hence all of the lieutenant models)

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Holy Terra

I actually hope they consolidate all factions into one book.
You can make them unique wit access to special characters, strats, relics, etc

If all Astartes are in one book it means all chapters get updated simultaneously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 12:46:07


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 G00fySmiley wrote:


I already wish GW had not put all of the Primaris in the specialist codexes. Hellblasters should be vanilla codex, another kit for blood angels, another one for space wolves, dark angels. I worry at this rate space marines will be oversaturated with kits (and I think they worry about it already hence all of the lieutenant models)

That would have been insanely frustrating. The special codices are a pox that causes stuff to be spread all over instead of us having one big smorgasbord with a lot of choices which lets you combine whatever we want. I am already annoyed that some Primaris Lieutenants have chapter-locked gear choices.

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In reality GW probably simply do not have long term plans. I mean look at any edition, they got an idea, they start following it, and then changing their mind at 180 degree half way.
I was almost sure there will be chaos primaris marines with 2 wounds, but nope, they release classic little upscaled ones two years after dark imperium. So I'll not be surprised, if we will get upscaled loyalists one day, because, well, if they think peeps could buy 13pts spiky tactical, why shouldn't they buy blue boys too? Or not, it's gw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 12:47:28


 
   
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 Crimson wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:


I already wish GW had not put all of the Primaris in the specialist codexes. Hellblasters should be vanilla codex, another kit for blood angels, another one for space wolves, dark angels. I worry at this rate space marines will be oversaturated with kits (and I think they worry about it already hence all of the lieutenant models)

That would have been insanely frustrating. The special codices are a pox that causes stuff to be spread all over instead of us having one big smorgasbord with a lot of choices which lets you combine whatever we want. I am already annoyed that some Primaris Lieutenants have chapter-locked gear choices.


I like the differentiating units personally. But if GW did combine them into 1 codex that might work too on the unit front. I just know GW will keep releasing new kits for marines and suddenly it will be bloat city again in another edition or 2.

Though I suppose maybe if they keep releasing and expanding other imperium lines it might last longer. as imperial soup will get more and more options.

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In the long term mini-marines will continue to have a place as long as Chaos doesn't get Primaris Marines and mini-marines continue to work better than Primaris marines do in Deathwatch (and they really really do).

Their margin continues to get narrower in a vanilla army though. It's a pretty safe bet that eventually your Scout, Tac, Dev, and Assault squads are going to be a poor choice as anything besides stand-ins for Intercessor, Infiltrator, Hellblaster, Eliminator, and Inceptor squads eventually if you don't want to convert them to Deathwatch allies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 13:08:45


 
   
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Norristown, PA

It will take many years but you will slowly see them getting phased out. Personally I like the look of the primaris better. I can see em keeping the vehicles though, and maybe putting out a new tank sprue that has a primaris gunner popping up with a stormbolt-rifle or something

   
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 Stormonu wrote:
If there is an Old/Primaris schism, I have to wonder how they’ll handle offshoot books like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves - if at all.

Of course, GW isn’t going to announce when they will cut the old marine line off - if they did so they risk being stuck with a bunch of unsold plastic. I’d watch for kits going “out of stock” and not being restocked as the measure of the line’s remaining life. With “online exclusive” being a precursor to the models ascendant demise.
l

DA don't like primaris, BA are already 50%+ primaris, though there are chapters like the flesh tearers that despise them.

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Eastern Washington

Old marines will still be around, more or less. GW will keep Rhinos and Land Raiders around. They'll just be for HH. By keeping HH mini marine sized GW will be able to differentiate the two games. Thereby maintaining the need for a 40k player to have many, many different kinds of SM armies.

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Old Marines are on life support. 'Spears of the Emperor' confirms their demise.

Spoiler:

In 'Spears' they convert a severely wounded normal marine to a Primaris marine, in the apothacarion of a Cruiser. And you know what they call the procedure? Calgarian rites.


Black Library is generally ahead of the table top by a year or two. So when Black Library is basically writing the phase out of Old Marines, then don't expect them to recieve new rules anytime soon. They are done. Kaput. Kicked the bucket.

The unfortunate thing is that the lore of Primaris has been setup so that once Primaris completely take over, the only thing that is going to differeniate the chapters is strategums and chapter tactics. No more death company, no more wulfen (thank god), no more super unique units. Everyone will be the same with just slight rules tweaks. (IMHO, BORING).

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 SickSix wrote:

The unfortunate thing is that the lore of Primaris has been setup so that once Primaris completely take over, the only thing that is going to differeniate the chapters is strategums and chapter tactics. No more death company, no more wulfen (thank god), no more super unique units. Everyone will be the same with just slight rules tweaks.

Good.

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