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In terms of xenos weapon stats, surely the Shuriken Cannon will get increased damage?

 solkan wrote:
I’m just trying to imagine how annoying it’s going to be for CSM players during the several months to a year between the Space Marine and CSM codex releases.
Or, for that matter, the time period between the stat change on marine heavy bolsters and when everyone else’s heavy bolsters catch up. (Likewise any of the other announced weapon changes...)

In any case, when Codex: Space Marines arrives in October, every other unit that utilises the same wargear – regardless of Faction – will get their weapon profiles upgraded accordingly.

I'd imagine there won't be too long of a wait. Wouldn't be shocked if they add them to the FAQ articles.

Biggest concern, for me at least, is the stuff that isn't shared. But I don't see that as a huge issue given that covid basically has in-person gaming being a nonexistent thing for the next few months where I live.

I'm hopeful that the reason the Forgeworld update books aren't out yet is that they were waiting to integrate all these new changes without spoilers.

[delete]

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In terms of xenos weapon stats, surely the Shuriken Cannon will get increased damage?

I'd imagine it'd probably get more shots.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hopeful that the reason the Forgeworld update books aren't out yet is that they were waiting to integrate all these new changes without spoilers.

That's a very good point

John D Law wrote:
So now the new guys who are a head taller are no better than the original? So what’s the point of primaris now?

The point of Primaris vs First Born Marines was to make many GW customers buy essentially the same product twice.

I'm giddy.. I got an "All Beaky" marine company that hasnt seen play for a while, thanks COVID, and I had been playing my Death Guard when I could.. but I am SO glad I hung onto my lil wonder guys..

Ditto, like literally all Beakies. I need to finish painting them though.

 Latro_ wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In terms of xenos weapon stats, surely the Shuriken Cannon will get increased damage?

I'd imagine it'd probably get more shots.

Only if there's an Imperial holding it

Found on Twitter, gave me a chuckle

As the owner of 100+ CSM that have been collecting dust for a year, I'm over the moon.

However I have a feeling they only now did this because they realized they wont be able to phase-out and replace all the other non-codex marine armies with Primaris equivalents of their unique units for a long time. Why bother designing a new Primaris based Sanguinary guard when you can just slap another wound on the old ones, still sell the old boxs, and call it a day. GW probably bit off more then they can chew and saw slowing sales numbers for other Marine armies that didn't get a Primaris make over, but they dont have the ability to push out brand new kits in a timely manner.

That’s not a bad theory; it also helps them balance CSM without having to completely redo that line as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Intriguing... this kinda puts the brakes on the whole "phase out oldmarines" plan.

Are you kidding? This is phase 2.

The line between First Born and Primaris blurs. Then, maybe a year or even two years from now, GW does a "rationalisation" of the Marine line, and decides that there are just so many kits they need to retire a bunch of them as to not be confusing to new players. And thus all the First Born Marines (probably not Terminators) go out of production, and "Primaris" Marines are now just regular Marines, no special distinction required.

Removing the ultimate legacy item from the game was never going to be a short-term project. This is just another step.

if thats the case the next logical step will be to allow old marines to board primaris transports. but not allow primaris on old marine transports.

 Super Ready wrote:
A horrible thought did just occur to me, actually. I know it's not how it's actually going to happen, especially since 3W Termies are already confirmed, but...

ALL FULLY-FLEDGED SPACE MARINES WILL BE GETTING 2 WOUNDS!

...Marneus Calgar with 2 Wounds, anyone? Or perhaps Mephiston? How about Dreadnoughts? They're still fully-fledged Space Marines, after all.

If you want to start playing words this actually says all marines will get 2 wounds aka tac's would be 3 wound ones and calgar would gain 2 wounds above their current values ;-)

Has any of this put a real dampener on you wanting to play 9th now with ye armies?

I spent like 2 weeks on and off updating like 8 chaos space marine army lists, now its like ugh the whole style of the army is gonna change and the points i CBA playing with them.

Just assuming a 3 pt increase (which is unlikely cross units) my 20 zerkers = + 60, 5 termies +15, 10 bikes + 30

s'like 150something points i expect.

If you don't want to take constantly changing things you are in wrong game. GW changes things constantly to make sure different things sell. Once they have sold unit X so much it doesn't sell much change balance so unit Y that hasn't sold that much before is selling better then.

I just want to see all the new marine kits and see what options exist in the codex so I can build and equip my models properly.

As much as I understand the evolution of Firstborn to Primaris standard to the end game of removing the Firstborn I have no problem with it.

So long as the FB don't get out right squatted. The current difference between the FB and Primaris are now akin to the difference between Tac Squads, Assault and Devastators so nothing really of note.

I'll take the upgrade.

tneva82 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
A horrible thought did just occur to me, actually. I know it's not how it's actually going to happen, especially since 3W Termies are already confirmed, but...

ALL FULLY-FLEDGED SPACE MARINES WILL BE GETTING 2 WOUNDS!

...Marneus Calgar with 2 Wounds, anyone? Or perhaps Mephiston? How about Dreadnoughts? They're still fully-fledged Space Marines, after all.

If you want to start playing words this actually says all marines will get 2 wounds aka tac's would be 3 wound ones and calgar would gain 2 wounds above their current values ;-)

I wouldn't be opposed to Guilliman getting two more wounds.

Inceptors remain the same. Any stat change for Primaris know seems unlikely.
If no special rule changes that, crossing the Rubicon Primaris is now the most pointless bioengineering break-through ever. Belisarian Furnace may as well be a ball of silicone inside the chest.
Oh, damage 1 assault bolters. Yeah, the pistol Heavy Bolters are gakky versions of the Heavy ones, now.

They still have an extra attack and characters an extra wound.

Kitane wrote:
They still have an extra attack and characters an extra wound.

I guess that's why special characters like to cross the Rubicon so much they get the full benefits

My ideal wounds system:

1 - normal human, ork boy, eldar soldier, tau soldier, etc., toughness can handle the ork boy
2 - space marines and anyone augmented or grown beyond the norm. ork nobz, the bulkier of tyranid/gsc cult infantry like where the whole unit is on 32mm bases. normal human characters that are relatively unimportant or not known for their ability to take bullets. a platoon officer, an astropath. bikes/mounts adding a wound to normal humans like GSC riders or guard roughriders
3 - the largest of the augmented infantry. and the plot armour of excellent human characters like lord commissars. terminators or bikes adding a wound to space marines
4 - space marine characters, regular custodes
5 - the truly tough and resilient augmented characters - a space marine character on a bike would go here. as wound something super tough like a lord of contagion. custodes terminators too.
6 - where light vehicles start. custodes on jetbikes would also be here

I want a space marine captain with a pair of lightning claws or a power sword to actually reliably kill a guard officer or even two in a single round of combat.

Personally, what I was expecting back when 8th started was for GW to do more with the fact that they said they were done with the 1-10 range for S and T. I was expecting T6 regular marines/orks, T10 Rhinos, T14 Land Raiders... things like that, and the same for weapon S.

But here we are.

DanielFM wrote:
Inceptors remain the same. Any stat change for Primaris know seems unlikely.
If no special rule changes that, crossing the Rubicon Primaris is now the most pointless bioengineering break-through ever. Belisarian Furnace may as well be a ball of silicone inside the chest.
Oh, damage 1 assault bolters. Yeah, the pistol Heavy Bolters are gakky versions of the Heavy ones, now.

Good. Pistolised heavy bolters should be weaker.

Anyhow if it upsets you that primaris no longer have a rules difference that’s significantly bigger than the lore difference, just pretend your marines are all primaris genetically but have varied equipment.

tneva82 wrote:
If you don't want to take constantly changing things you are in wrong game. GW changes things constantly to make sure different things sell. Once they have sold unit X so much it doesn't sell much change balance so unit Y that hasn't sold that much before is selling better then.

Not sure i said i didn't 'want' them to change. Was merely a point of note that they dropped a new ed, a new (paid for book) with points in. Then 3 weeks later fundamentally changed how 'astates' will work looking forward without really stating when and how the chaos stuff will update.

It does leave you in limbo. Why would i play games write a list 'now' for an army that will play differently in i'm not 100% sure when. Its a bit like you would not blow £300 on a necron army right now when you know a new codex is a couple of months away. I dont see much point playing with any of the several chaos marine armies i have right now till i know what they'll actually look like.

Things do not constantly change like this in 40k, its disingenuous to say that. Things get 'added' constantly i'll give you that and things change sometimes. All astartes based models getting 2 wounds and a pts hike is a once in 10/20 years kinda change to say otherwise is a waste of typing.

I'm gonna love my plague marines and khorne berzekers toting two wounds it'll be fluffy as hell. Fact they have teased this gives me no enthusiasm to invent and play lists right now where they rock around with just one.

 Latro_ wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If you don't want to take constantly changing things you are in wrong game. GW changes things constantly to make sure different things sell. Once they have sold unit X so much it doesn't sell much change balance so unit Y that hasn't sold that much before is selling better then.

Not sure i said i didn't 'want' them to change. Was merely a point of note that they dropped a new ed, a new (paid for book) with points in. Then 3 weeks later fundamentally changed how 'astates' will work looking forward without really stating when and how the chaos stuff will update.

Eh? Chaos will get the weapons update (for melta, flamer, heavy bolters, etc) when everyone else does- when the Loyalist codex drops.
Wound update happens when the chaos codex drops. (Which is a bit gakky)

It does leave you in limbo. Why would i play games write a list 'now' for an army that will play differently in i'm not 100% sure when. Its a bit like you would not blow £300 on a necron army right now when you know a new codex is a couple of months away. I dont see much point playing with any of the several chaos marine armies i have right now till i know what they'll actually look like.

Eh. When is that not the case? The necron window is basically the longest we 'know' a new codex is coming. Outside of three months or so, we haven't known when an update is coming for a long time now.
Not playing in case a specific army is next up doesn't make any sense to me.

I could see not _buying_, but not avoiding games or writing lists for what I've got.

-----

 Albertorius wrote:
Personally, what I was expecting back when 8th started was for GW to do more with the fact that they said they were done with the 1-10 range for S and T. I was expecting T6 regular marines/orks, T10 Rhinos, T14 Land Raiders... things like that, and the same for weapon S.

But here we are.

Ugh. Those kind of numeric changes with the current 'to wound' chart makes my skin crawl.

 Latro_ wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If you don't want to take constantly changing things you are in wrong game. GW changes things constantly to make sure different things sell. Once they have sold unit X so much it doesn't sell much change balance so unit Y that hasn't sold that much before is selling better then.

Not sure i said i didn't 'want' them to change. Was merely a point of note that they dropped a new ed, a new (paid for book) with points in. Then 3 weeks later fundamentally changed how 'astates' will work looking forward without really stating when and how the chaos stuff will update.

It does leave you in limbo. Why would i play games write a list 'now' for an army that will play differently in i'm not 100% sure when. Its a bit like you would not blow £300 on a necron army right now when you know a new codex is a couple of months away. I dont see much point playing with any of the several chaos marine armies i have right now till i know what they'll actually look like.

Things do not constantly change like this in 40k, its disingenuous to say that. Things get 'added' constantly i'll give you that and things change sometimes. All astartes based models getting 2 wounds and a pts hike is a once in 10/20 years kinda change to say otherwise is a waste of typing.

I'm gonna love my plague marines and khorne berzekers toting two wounds it'll be fluffy as hell. Fact they have teased this gives me no enthusiasm to invent and play lists right now where they rock around with just one.

chapter approved released what in early augest? so we'll assume a 3 month cycle.

well previously CA would release in decemmber.

in 8th edition we've gotten a LARGE number of new armies within 3 months of december (out to febuary)

1K sons, GSCs Chaos Deamons and custodes just for example.

Maybe I'm just old then lol, or annoyed I spent hours redoing lists.

I'm a 25 year player of 40k and this has put me off till there is some clarity so meh