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Made in gb
Executing Exarch






EightFoldPath wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
EightFoldPath wrote:
A Sautekh 9th edition army gets:
51 data sheets (best of any dynasty by a good few)
35 strategems
7 warlord traits
9 relics
21 extras (12 arkana + 9 c'tan powers)

An Ultramarines 9th edition army gets (I ran out of fingers and toes several times so may have miscounted):
110 data sheets (116% more)
50 strategems (42% more)
18 warlord traits (157% more)
30 relics (233% more)
45 extras (7 chapter command upgrades with 7 more warlord traits and 7 more relics, 18 psychic powers, 6 litanies) (114% more)


If you think that's bad, a Poison Tongue DE army gets:
15 data sheets
18 strategems
4 warlord traits
5 relics
0 extras

I realise they haven't had a 9th edition codex yet, but still.

Agreed, there are plenty of similar 8th edition codexes like that.

As the first non SM 9th edition codex I was expecting at least an extra page of strategems, warlord traits and relics in the Necron book to help "keep up" with the space marine supplements.

I guess we now look towards the Death Guard codex to see if this is what all non SM factions should expect. It could be really painful for DG because they had a really limited 8th edition codex for so long and had just got some actual options with War of the Spider. If their 9th codex is as stingy as Necrons they may lose some of them due to lack of space.


Its almost like the amount of options/rules available correlates to performance and balance issues...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The nerfs to Necrons were absolutely hilarious and out of whack, no matter the buffs that single wound models got.


Nearly every single datasheet got improved across the board, some dramatically so. Most of our weapons got a complete overhaul and improved as well. Our Stratagems improved, our Dynasty codes are also vastly improved.

The buffs the dex received across the board far, far outweigh the changes to core.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

H.B.M.C. wrote:I want to know why they made even more equipment into strats (Meltabombs, smoke launchers, etc.).


because your still thinking this is 40K. it is not 40K any more than AOS is warhammer fantasy. it is a totally new game system that uses it's own mechanics that are alien to everything that was 40K. the WHFB community didn't take it as well as the hardcore 40K fans and the majority jumped ship for other games like kings of war.

If GW had released a totally new game with all these mechanics and called it "whiskey tango foxtrot" there would be none of the anguish that we see constantly on the forums.

Because they are selling it under the 40K IP with the iconic troupes of the 40K universe and it is literally a completely different game than what 40K was for almost 20 years. those of us who existed before 8th edition in the hobby are sitting here going "what the hell?" those who started with or after 8th don't understand because they never experienced the game any other way.

As long as the players keep shoveling money into GWs pockets they will continue doing what they are doing.


.



CKO wrote:I have been trying to figure out what makes Space Marines so popular. I believe it is the fact that their troop choices are easier to use
.


1. they are humans and as players we self identify and they are superheros in effect in this universe
2. they are the most all around army or they were. tough enough and good enough at a little bit of everything to be solid. other armies were tier 2 overly specialized so they required a bit more finesse to play well.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Argive wrote:
The usual suspects are strangely silent..
They're still waiting.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Sasori wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The nerfs to Necrons were absolutely hilarious and out of whack, no matter the buffs that single wound models got.


Nearly every single datasheet got improved across the board, some dramatically so. Most of our weapons got a complete overhaul and improved as well. Our Stratagems improved, our Dynasty codes are also vastly improved.

The buffs the dex received across the board far, far outweigh the changes to core.

You're apparently not looking at the same codex. All the multiwound models might as well not have RP. Our equivalent of Super Doctrines are much weaker and a lot harder to actually get to use. A lot of the relics stayed the same or are just worse than before or worse to equivalents.

As I said, the buffs to single wound models is no match for everything else.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The nerfs to Necrons were absolutely hilarious and out of whack, no matter the buffs that single wound models got.


Nearly every single datasheet got improved across the board, some dramatically so. Most of our weapons got a complete overhaul and improved as well. Our Stratagems improved, our Dynasty codes are also vastly improved.

The buffs the dex received across the board far, far outweigh the changes to core.

You're apparently not looking at the same codex. All the multiwound models might as well not have RP. Our equivalent of Super Doctrines are much weaker and a lot harder to actually get to use. A lot of the relics stayed the same or are just worse than before or worse to equivalents.

As I said, the buffs to single wound models is no match for everything else.


I am looking at the same codex. It just seems like you either don't actually play the game, or don't understand what a nerf is.

RP as it functioned in 8th might as well have not existed for any units. The cost was baked in extremely high, and it was very easy to completely circumvent. The 9th RP is significantly better on 1W models and it is still better on 2W models. It's not not amazing on 3W models, but the cost isn't very baked in compared to before, and you actually have a chance to use it. RP by no means got nerfed. Anyone that says either didn't play Necrons in 8th, or didn't play against competent opponents that understood how RP worked.

We didn't even have Command Protocols before, so that's a nerf at all. They are harder to use than Doctrines no doubt, but the effects for the most part are pretty good.

We also have living metal now across every single MW which is a flat buff.

Most of our Relics got better, some significantly so. The Voltaic Staff and Eternity Orb both spring to mind. The Veil got a slight nerf, and I'll admit that the Nanoscarab casket got obliterated.

You're literally ignoring the host of buffs across the entire book, and trying to pick one or two things to present as some kind of overarching nerf to the dex, which is demonstrably not the case.


4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 aphyon wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:I want to know why they made even more equipment into strats (Meltabombs, smoke launchers, etc.).


because your still thinking this is 40K. it is not 40K any more than AOS is warhammer fantasy. it is a totally new game system that uses it's own mechanics that are alien to everything that was 40K. the WHFB community didn't take it as well as the hardcore 40K fans and the majority jumped ship for other games like kings of war.


Alien to everything that was 40k? That's an odd thing to claim when 40k has, at one time or another, had:
- Robots with a flow chart control system
- Range modifiers
- Vehicle damage locations, and graphic hit location charts
- Psychic power decks
- War gear decks
- Redone how melee combat works twice (at least, depending on how you want to count)
- Started with a M stat for models, removed it, and then added it back

For WHFB, they took a 'pivot blocks of infantry' game and tried to turn it into something else, maybe to make it more accessible or make it cheaper to buy into. That's why you saw the Pathfinder style "You just killed the specific game mechanics we were here for" reactions.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





also once AOS was sorted out there where a LOT of voices here calling for 40K to basicly be turned into "AOS 40K"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

solkan wrote:
 aphyon wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:I want to know why they made even more equipment into strats (Meltabombs, smoke launchers, etc.).


because your still thinking this is 40K. it is not 40K any more than AOS is warhammer fantasy. it is a totally new game system that uses it's own mechanics that are alien to everything that was 40K. the WHFB community didn't take it as well as the hardcore 40K fans and the majority jumped ship for other games like kings of war.


Alien to everything that was 40k? That's an odd thing to claim when 40k has, at one time or another, had:
- Robots with a flow chart control system
- Range modifiers
- Vehicle damage locations, and graphic hit location charts
- Psychic power decks
- War gear decks
- Redone how melee combat works twice (at least, depending on how you want to count)
- Started with a M stat for models, removed it, and then added it back

For WHFB, they took a 'pivot blocks of infantry' game and tried to turn it into something else, maybe to make it more accessible or make it cheaper to buy into. That's why you saw the Pathfinder style "You just killed the specific game mechanics we were here for" reactions.


Nice cherry pick, i specifically referenced 40K from 3rd-5th and to a lesser extent 6th & 7th edition when the core mechanics were pretty well cemented and the same from 1998-2017
RT was more of an RPG and 2nd was a transition to more of a wargame that only lasted for those 2 editions with all the detailed rules you referenced .

BrianDavion wrote:also once AOS was sorted out there where a LOT of voices here calling for 40K to basicly be turned into "AOS 40K"


It was probably a test run, looks like they got their wish. like the WHFB players they killed the game mechanics i was here for with 40K so i went back to playing 5th.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 04:21:25


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?

   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?


I thought they already did that on the Repulsors?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?


I thought they already did that on the Repulsors?


they got better

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?


I thought they already did that on the Repulsors?


they got better


Yeah but weren't they a Hunter Killer strat on Repulsors in 8.5 or something?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?

give it time....they got to ease it all in....next up "this unit wants to shoot i have to use 1 cp strat to activate them".

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

There are too many strats to begin with. There are so many strats that should just be special rules, especially when the strat is unit specific.

Now they've gone and made a bunch of equipment into strats. What benefit is there to the game by making smoke launchers into something that only one tank can use a turn?

   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are too many strats to begin with. There are so many strats that should just be special rules, especially when the strat is unit specific.

Now they've gone and made a bunch of equipment into strats. What benefit is there to the game by making smoke launchers into something that only one tank can use a turn?


GW just doubled down on the MTG-ification of 40k, the want you to NEED to use cp to have the units function. It's another way to cater to players that like having to manage a resource which is a BIG fething MISTAKE!

There should be something like 10 universal strats and 3-5 FACTION ones....no more. Not everything needs to have a bespoke strat.

Why in Terra would making weapon options a strat be a good idea. I guess it's people are too lazy to model stuff appropriately armed and like the easy way out. making the choice between autolaunchers and fragstorms determined how you use the model, just fething stupid to change it. let's take meaningful choices(that you make before the game & pay for in your list) and chuck them out the window.

ALL OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!

I hope that the cp to activate idea dies a fiery death, then the ashes put into a capsule and shot into the corona of Sol.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 aphyon wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?

give it time....they got to ease it all in....next up "this unit wants to shoot i have to use 1 cp strat to activate them".


I'd kind of like to see some of the unit abilities moved to 0 CP Strats. The Erad double tap for example, The old Thunderfire Cannon ammo choices come back as a 0CP strat for each ammo, or for each unit with being able to take up to three cannon per unit. A lot of those freebie rules from what was it 5th edition Formations? can come back as 0CP strats too. One thing I liked about those formations was that it allowed units that were seriously underperforming to get a special rule to improve them without an entire reworking of the edition. Just put the strat on the unit Datasheet for unit abilities they want to have around but not spammable.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Breton wrote:
 aphyon wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?

give it time....they got to ease it all in....next up "this unit wants to shoot i have to use 1 cp strat to activate them".


I'd kind of like to see some of the unit abilities moved to 0 CP Strats. The Erad double tap for example, The old Thunderfire Cannon ammo choices come back as a 0CP strat for each ammo, or for each unit with being able to take up to three cannon per unit. A lot of those freebie rules from what was it 5th edition Formations? can come back as 0CP strats too. One thing I liked about those formations was that it allowed units that were seriously underperforming to get a special rule to improve them without an entire reworking of the edition. Just put the strat on the unit Datasheet for unit abilities they want to have around but not spammable.






Feck no, get rid of the stratagem bs, and reintegrate abilities and price units propperly.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

That's not going to happen. GW has latched onto this stratagem resource management BS like a junkie to his crack pipe.

Instead of having armies with lore based specific rules, gear and unit builds. everybody is all the same with stratagems being the only thing that you can use to add some variety. most of it to boost damage or resistance. the "MTG-ification of 40k" is nearly complete.

Thanks to cawl and primaris everybody is an ultramarine now with a different paint color and heraldry. i seriously don't get how people think this is better, well anybody who has played the game since before 6th edition. all the "fixes" to 9th everybody thinks is better is still not as good as it used to be when they fixed it before.

 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
While you're all arguing about the "AoS-ing" of 40K, I'm still annoyed that they continue to turn things that should be equipment into strats.

How long before the Hunter Killer missile becomes a strat?


I thought they already did that on the Repulsors?


they got better


Yeah but weren't they a Hunter Killer strat on Repulsors in 8.5 or something?


They were, with a randomly different name to excuse it.

Tbh Stratagems are fine. On the whole they’re a fun mechanic and the game is more fun than it has been since 2nd for me. YMMV. Just wanted to add a counterpoint to the salt overdoses. Some Strats should be unit abilities, and the costing on some is wrong, but they generate some fun moments in our games and that’s what we’re here for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:
That's not going to happen. GW has latched onto this stratagem resource management BS like a junkie to his crack pipe.

Instead of having armies with lore based specific rules, gear and unit builds. everybody is all the same with stratagems being the only thing that you can use to add some variety. most of it to boost damage or resistance. the "MTG-ification of 40k" is nearly complete.

Thanks to cawl and primaris everybody is an ultramarine now with a different paint color and heraldry. i seriously don't get how people think this is better, well anybody who has played the game since before 6th edition. all the "fixes" to 9th everybody thinks is better is still not as good as it used to be when they fixed it before.


In practise, the Marine Chapters do feel very different. Try playing some games not feeding on internet salty circle jerks. Honestly, the army isn’t as homogenous and mono build as people would have you believe. My DA feel very different to White Scars, to Crimson Fists, to my Salamanders. You pick differently, play differently, as it should be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 07:09:58


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 JohnnyHell wrote:


They were, with a randomly different name to excuse it.

Tbh Stratagems are fine. On the whole they’re a fun mechanic and the game is more fun than it has been since 2nd for me. YMMV. Just wanted to add a counterpoint to the salt overdoses. Some Strats should be unit abilities, and the costing on some is wrong, but they generate some fun moments in our games and that’s what we’re here for.
That's what I like about the 0CP idea. Some abilities are too good if they're spammed, but removing them entirely may be too much. Plus it would allow more abilities on more units without a Monty Haul scenario.


In practise, the Marine Chapters do feel very different. Try playing some games not feeding on internet salty circle jerks. Honestly, the army isn’t as homogenous and mono build as people would have you believe. My DA feel very different to White Scars, to Crimson Fists, to my Salamanders. You pick differently, play differently, as it should be.


Pretty much.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

Tbh Stratagems are fine. On the whole they’re a fun mechanic and the game is more fun than it has been since 2nd for me.


For me It is the worst the game has been since 6th (7th was better before the formation storm hit, actually played a bit of that), and like 6th i stopped playing, or rather i went back to playing 5th

In practise, the Marine Chapters do feel very different. Try playing some games not feeding on internet salty circle jerks. Honestly, the army isn’t as homogenous and mono build as people would have you believe. My DA feel very different to White Scars, to Crimson Fists, to my Salamanders. You pick differently, play differently, as it should be.


I work at a game store running the late night gaming area, i have watched for hours on end (since late june when we got up and running again) people playing 9th. one of the guys i play 5th with also plays 9th. he likes using his 3.5 chaos codex in 5th more, but his brother and son want to play 9th so he does both. i don't need the internet to see how bad the game is.

And yes they are. white scare oh boy 9th edition special sauce-we get to advance and then charge..maybe pull off a turn 1 charge? where are their lore based rules? hunting lances? true grit? hit&run? where is their skilled rider (or massed bikes for that matter) or their mounted infantry requirement?

One of the regulars who plays primaris plays "white scars" i took one look at it and i i knew it wasn't white scars they would never fight like that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/13 07:50:26


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Oh boy! you don't play 40k but you sir stock shelves in a local gaming store! that clearly makes you an expert! after all you watch people play!

And yes they are. white scare oh boy 9th edition special sauce-we get to advance and then charge..maybe pull off a turn 1 charge? where are their lore based rules? hunting lances? true grit? hit&run? where is their skilled rider (or massed bikes for that matter) or their mounted infantry requirement?

One of the regulars who plays primaris plays "white scars" i took one look at it and i i knew it wasn't white scars they would never fight like that.


what hunted Lances? I've been playing since 5th edition and white scars haven't had hunting lances (in fact the WS captain now can take a power lance, which makes white scars more like white scars then they've been in ages) also if the regular playes primaris white scars.. well if he wants bikes he's got em now but white scars aren't purely a bike army.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 aphyon wrote:

I work at a game store running the late night gaming area, i have watched for hours on end (since late june when we got up and running again) people playing 9th. one of the guys i play 5th with also plays 9th. he likes using his 3.5 chaos codex in 5th more, but his brother and son want to play 9th so he does both. i don't need the internet to see how bad the game is.

And yes they are. white scare oh boy 9th edition special sauce-we get to advance and then charge..maybe pull off a turn 1 charge? where are their lore based rules? hunting lances? true grit? hit&run? where is their skilled rider (or massed bikes for that matter) or their mounted infantry requirement?

One of the regulars who plays primaris plays "white scars" i took one look at it and i i knew it wasn't white scars they would never fight like that.


Can't help but this sounds an awful lot like "You are a White Scars fan, oh yeah? Then tell me the middle names of each member of the first company during the Macharius crusade!"

On a more serious note, you are not wrong that they don't have the same rules that they used to. But they got a whole supplement full of specific stratagems, relics, units and warlord traits that set them apart from other chapters.
Do you want to know how they fight according to the lore? Take a look at the company structure before and after the Indomitus crusade:

Before Primaris
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/White_Scars and CTRL+F for "The Brotherhoods".

After Primaris
Spoiler:


Looks a lot like a regular, codex compliant chapter to me.
And battle companies are not set in stone. They do request elements from reserve companies according to their needs.

I find it hard to say any legal combination of Marine units in a regular patrol / battalion /brigade detachment is "not how they would fight".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 08:21:14


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I suspect he's one of the people out there who thinks all white scars are bikes all the time. which isn't true at all. in fact Primaris offer white scars some good oppertunities, Supressors are techncly heavy support elements but are fast moving (to the point of being classed fast attack) which seems like something white scars would dig.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

Oh boy! you don't play 40k but you sir stock shelves in a local gaming store! that clearly makes you an expert! after all you watch people play!


I DO NOT stock shelves i RUN late night gaming which means i set up games/tables, coordinate games/events, play games, clean up and lock up afterward
i PLAY 40K i also play warmachine and infinity and DUST and B5 wars and victory at sea and classic batltetech and BFG and several other games.

It doesn't take a genius to read the rules, watch (often for hours) how other people play 9th edition and discuss it with the regulars to know how 9th plays. and because i can compare it to other editions of 40K as well as other systems i actively play. i can reach a qualified opinion about the quality of 9th edition game mechanics and rules.



The power lances had been a thing since 3rd it was an expansion listed in the index astartes books specifically for white scars army lists (all sgts/gharacters could take them as wargear.) including all their chapter special rules. also including a transport restriction. if they are not on bikes they must be in a transport or use jet packs. but then again when you can take 10 man bike squads as basic troops, attack bikes as heavy support, and scout bikes as fast attack they could bring a lot of bikes.


Before Primaris


That pretty well sums up the in game rules i mentioned-

Evoking the mounted warriors of their heritage, each brotherhood maintains a high proportion of Assault Bikes, Attack Bikes and Land Speeders, and their infantry squads are almost always borne to battle by fast moving vehicles or gunships. Indeed, it is often said that the White Scars are born in the saddle and are not at ease unless fighting on, in or from an armoured mount of some kind.-



-Overall, the White Scars are considered a powerful and effective Chapter when undertaking direct, rapid assaults or carrying out surgical strikes intended to achieve specific operational objectives.

However, their lack of units with a great deal of resilience or staying power such as heavy weapons-equipped Tactical Marines, Devastator Marines, Dreadnoughts or the heavier Astartes main battle tanks means that their detachments are more fragile if not used at a tactically appropriate moment or if forced to face prolonged, static combat, particularly against well-defended enemy strongholds and heavily-fortified positions.

The White Scars are not a Chapter that would fare well undertaking sieges, for example.



An example of an army when i think white scars-

Spoiler:




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/13 09:00:48


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





a_typical_hero wrote:


After Primaris
Spoiler:


Looks a lot like a regular, codex compliant chapter to me.
And battle companies are not set in stone. They do request elements from reserve companies according to their needs.

I find it hard to say any legal combination of Marine units in a regular patrol / battalion /brigade detachment is "not how they would fight".


Those company markings are all the reason I need to not play White Scars. I'm not that good of a painter.

Even when White Scars were bike heavy they weren't all bike, they also outflanked Rhinos full of Tac Squads.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect he's one of the people out there who thinks all white scars are bikes all the time. which isn't true at all. in fact Primaris offer white scars some good oppertunities, Supressors are techncly heavy support elements but are fast moving (to the point of being classed fast attack) which seems like something white scars would dig.


It does bring amusing mental images of driving bikes up/down stairs to hit people, everyone having to hang out the saddles to raise flags, driving their bikes through the showers when they get back on the ship, driving them into briefings etc.

Regarding primaris white scars, lots of repulsors, impulsors, outriders, stormstrikes and inceptors. Matches the themes and keeps them mobile, doesn't need an extravagant rules set for it, just a little player intuition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 08:52:37


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





we didn't have primaris bikes until fairly recently, (hell we didn't even have a reasonable light transport a year ago) but it's clear GW is looking to expand those options.


Looking at the picture I see 2 tactical squads 1 with a rhino one with a droip pod. 7 bike squads and 2 predators (not doable because you can't make bikes troops anymore but that's an issue first born have as well) and 3 land speeders.

I could build a primaris equivilant pretty easily.


White Scars Outrider Detachment

1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike (115 points)
1 Primaris Captain.(85 points)
1 Primaris Librarian (100 points)
2 Squads of Intercessors, (100 points eacg)
2 Impulsors (125 each)
3 squads of 3 outriders (135 each)
1 squads of Invader ATVs with Multi Meltas (135 points)
and 2 of the new galdiator reapers.

pretty close to equivilant (less bikes but we've got the rule of 3 now) and conveniantly thats a decently solid ~2000 point list.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

It's 3 bike squads, remember they could take full 10 man squads of bikes, nobody else could (the limit for most marines was 6+ an attack bike). but close enough.

That's why i was pointing out the guys list at our store. didn't look like scars. it was mostly foot slogging infantry with 3 bikes.

But hey your primaris boys have a speeder coming so that's something at least.

 
   
 
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