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Right. If this hypothetical spoiled brat fires you, just get another job. Who wants to work for some punk who never did anything to earn his wealth and power in the first place? Companies who follow such leadership die soon enough, which would have you finding another job in the long run anyway.
If only this were actually true lol. I guess like, just try to never google what percentage of CEOs come from households that made more than a million dollars a year?
It's not usually direct nepotism, though there are some pretty obviously high profile examples of cartoonish nepotism in the world today with people whose qualification is "my daddy is the boss" but it's almost always "five members of the board are my daddy's country club buddies and they personally vouched for me having done such a good job chatting them up at our gala luncheons so I got the job."
Yes, all too true. But this hypothetical situation involves a case of someone gaining power through extreme nepotism and then immediately making very bad business decisions. I'll not get into my thoughts on the consolidation of wealth and power by those CEOs and their families you mentioned....
Kanluwen wrote: Anyone who says "they wouldn't mind" is lying or never had to play with a physical copy of an Imperial Armour book.
Imperial Armour book's issue isn't with their "tome"-ness, most actually aren't any more dense or higher pagecount than something like a D&D PHB or a 4E core rulebook, many substantially less so. The problem is that they're taller and wider page formats/covers than most other gaming books making them awkward to fit into some shelves/bags/pockets and more tablespace when opened up
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Gadzilla666 wrote: This entire thread is just another example of people telling other people they shouldn't be able to play with their favorite toys. If that's your problem, just don't play with people who play with those toys. Problem solved.
The issue is some of those toys *cough* Knights *cough* have altered the rules of the game and how anti-tank weapons are balanced. So even if you never play against them your game experience has changed because they exist. The same goes for flyers and how they continue to skew the game as they go from useful to useless at the whims of a rules team that can never really pin down where they fit into the balance of things.
BrianDavion wrote: I look at the sales data, identify the 5 armies that are most constistantly underperforming and get rid of them, the pragmatic busniess decision. because that's what my boss and his shareholders are going to want.
Ah, we have discovered the one who always stands by himself at the office Xmas parties....got it!
no you've just discovered the one who actually took the time to answer what he would do rather then use this as a chance to bash his least favorite armies.
Except that us not what many have done if you take the time to read posts. Harlequins for example, is an army I love, but i can see where they don't exist as an actual army.
No, if you read the posts that is exactly what many of the replies are doing.
Slayer grinding his usual axe about Marine supplements, Knights being in two books, and "bloat".
Two people on this page alone trying to claim that the Imperial Guard don't fit in 40k...
A number of people picking the Knight books because in their opinion they don't fit with the current scale of the game.
You've let a whole bunch of people get their axes sharpened on your grindstone.
Super Ready, Brian and PenitentJake are the only ones to give sensible answers in here.
A.T. wrote: Still waiting on the official custodes/SoS combo codex...
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Custardes book in 9th, whenever it crops up - and whether that means any additions for the SoS.
What makes their answers sensible compared to others?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
They don't remove models from players to play them. A position perfectly valid to take but a bit missing the point considering this is a mind experiment.
Still it would be gakky to do but GW is not above doing it as recently demonstrated so it potentially is an issue anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 17:32:37
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The niche factions already mentioned in this thread, but I'd keep GSC, they're pretty iconic in 40k, have a good range of models and an interesting play style.
I don't think it's a good idea to release so many factions into the game because it just adds to the number of books that need updating every edition, which will inevitably disappoint players when their stuff is no longer playable (either through lack of up to date rules or falling so far behind due to power creep)
Gadzilla666 wrote: This entire thread is just another example of people telling other people they shouldn't be able to play with their favorite toys. If that's your problem, just don't play with people who play with those toys. Problem solved.
The issue is some of those toys *cough* Knights *cough* have altered the rules of the game and how anti-tank weapons are balanced. So even if you never play against them your game experience has changed because they exist. The same goes for flyers and how they continue to skew the game as they go from useful to useless at the whims of a rules team that can never really pin down where they fit into the balance of things.
I agree. I'd suggest just making them pay a premium in points, so that they can exist, people can have fun with them but ultimately they won't be good picks in a competitive environment because they're a bit too costly for what they do. A bit like the stompa, but not so over the top overpriced (because that's just ridiculous)
Gadzilla666 wrote: This entire thread is just another example of people telling other people they shouldn't be able to play with their favorite toys. If that's your problem, just don't play with people who play with those toys. Problem solved.
The issue is some of those toys *cough* Knights *cough* have altered the rules of the game and how anti-tank weapons are balanced. So even if you never play against them your game experience has changed because they exist. The same goes for flyers and how they continue to skew the game as they go from useful to useless at the whims of a rules team that can never really pin down where they fit into the balance of things.
Yes, personally I don't think knights should be a stand alone army. That's a skew list, plain and simple. Also, as you said, it forced the implementation of the "always wounds on a 6" rule. But that doesn't mean knights shouldn't exist. Their biggest problem is their price. A single Baneblade is somewhere between the price of two to three Leman Russes, depending on the loadout of either, but is only slightly more durable than two of those Leman Russes. If knights were priced at a similar scale in comparison to smaller units with comparable defensive profiles they would be less of a problem. Unfortunately they aren't. Gw insists on making them cheaper than other LOWs, for whatever reason.
Not Online!!! wrote: They don't remove models from players to play them. A position perfectly valid to take but a bit missing the point considering this is a mind experiment.
Still it would be gakky to do but GW is not above doing it as recently demonstrated so it potentially is an issue anyway.
I guess I missed the part where removing extra Marine codices that exist for no good reason removed that player's models.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
or we could make a propper quasi apo point level where other rules interact and superheavies may reign supreme instead of making them pointless beyond any reason and therefore missinvestments or completly metawarping.
like boxing has weight classes one could and probably should as i have stated do so for 40k.
Not Online!!! wrote: They don't remove models from players to play them. A position perfectly valid to take but a bit missing the point considering this is a mind experiment.
Still it would be gakky to do but GW is not above doing it as recently demonstrated so it potentially is an issue anyway.
I guess I missed the part where removing extra Marine codices that exist for no good reason removed that player's models.
special units and wargear options, but this is also why i'd prefer a decently customizable mainline SM dex to allow people to still represent them and have them all in one codex.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/22 17:43:33
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Some of the serious responses here makes me realize people have not seen Horrible Bosses. So now, to add to the mix, based upon the incessant posting of one particular poster on the topic.....I'd axe all Forgeworld too.
Ynnari - Literally no lore or units for them except for three characters and broken rules.
Custodes & Sisters of Silence - they shouldn't be seperate codexes but instead 1 codex combined with the Talons of the Emperor.
DW - Should be combined into the Ordo Xenos so they can take inqusition troops and others. And be a supplement force for the Inqusition forces
Grey Knights - Similar to DW that they should be supplementary forces to the Ordos / Inqusition. You can't take Grey Knights by themselves and if you do there is penalities to it but massive benefits as well (less CP, more rules)
Space Marine Supplements - Too Many of these I am annoyed by them stop it, just make it 1 codex and 2 codex supplements, 1 codex supplement for all the 'non-codex' and one for codex compliants. Bam don.
Imperial Knights / Chaos Knights - remove these from the game, they have no place in normal games of the hobby. Its why I left the hobby in the first place. Always overpowered and exhausting to fight against.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights - These two codecies are absolutely game-warping, even when they're not good. So many things, from special detachments to the way things in the system interact, exist for these codecies to function, and so many changes could be made but for "but this does X to Imperial Knights". The basic idea of them is terrible too - having an entire army of titanic units that doesn't work or even play the same game as everybody else does, and also any aligned faction can/should take one as an ally. I would convert this codex into Lords of War for AdMech [with Armigers going to HS].
Genestealer Cults - Seriously, this is something that can and should have been left in Warhammer's past. There are so many unfortunate implications and messages communicated by this faction, especially with it's new incarnation, and it also has a ton of inconsistent theming matchups. "The Resistance" should have gone to chaos renegades, who are notably not mind controlled by alien rape, thus avoiding basically all the unfortunate interpretations that could arise around that. The whole deal with the mind control rape with survivors being continued propagators as infiltrators should also just have been outright dropped, because there are seriously way too many unfortunately implications there. There are lots of ways to accomplish either or both of the societal infiltrators and/or Aliens Xenomorphs themes without having unfortunate messages.
Inquisition, Assassins, and other "Agents of the Imperium" [excluding Sisters of Silence] - These were once HQ and Elites choices from the Grey Knights and the Sisters of Battle. Separating them out into "armies that aren't armies" was basically a ploy to get every Imperial army to include one in the same vein as Imperial Knights. Fold them back in to their respective codecies.
Tsons and DG - Really, there should never have been 4 Space Marine codecies. There should also never have been Space Marine supplements. We don't need to continue this trend of having every subfaction or microfaction be it's own army book. Alternatively change the structure of Chaos from Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Knights, Chaos Daemons, [Chaos Renegades] to: Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War, Traitors and Renegades
Talons of the Emperor - Seriously, didn't need to be an army.
I would effectively change the roster to:
Space Marines - covering all loyalist Space Marine Chapters, without supplements, and paring down the exceptions for "but SW/DA instead do X".
Imperial Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus - including all current AdMech units + Imperial Knights
Witch Hunters - including all current SoB and Adeptus Ministorium units plus Ordo Hereticus Inquisitoral units, Assassins, and Frateris Milita
Daemonhunters - including all current Grey Knight units plus Ordo Malleus Inquisitorial units and Assassins.
Xenos Hunters - including Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial units and Deathwatch Space Marines, plus maybe access to some human specialists.
Chaos Legions - Covering Chaos forces from the Horus Heresy
Chaos Renegades - Covering chaos-backed insurgent cells, renegade space marines [IE: Red Corsairs], a selection of traitor imperial units from Guard, Sisters, and AdMech, with Chaos Knights as lord of war options.
Chaos Daemons
Tyranids
Genestealer Infiltration - refluffed to be more of "the president is a disguised/is controlled by aliens" theme without the insurgency themes or mind control rape unfortunate implications.
Craftworld Eldar
Dark Eldar
Harlequins
Tau
Orks
Necrons
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 18:20:34
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Why in the hell would you change the GSC to that garbage?
That's the sheer frigging horror of the faction. They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy. That the worlds they're on have been subjugated. They they need to rise up to liberate it. And more than that, they genuinely care and love their hideous alien-babies.
Kanluwen wrote: They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy.
They don't believe anything. They're mind controlled by the patriarch. That's literally the whole thing with the genestealer's parasite that mind-links and enslaves the victim to the genestealer cult's will.
The rest of their space-rape-infiltrators-crap gets into the realm of having unfortunately implications no matter how you look at it about several things from sexual assault survivor challenges to terrorist organizations
Warhammer 40k has never been apolitical, since it's basically an extended telling of the failures of fascism and theocracy. However, the Genestealer cults and there themes aren't written as part of a political discussion. They're just there, and just awful. They're not horror, they're not funny, they're not even particularly well in the heritage of classic sci-fi since the objectionable space-rape-mind-control-infiltrator-willing-propagator thing isn't actually in the heritage of Alien, which space hulk-luirking Hive Fleet Genestealers cover fine as well without unfortunate and uncomfortable implications.
This is a piece of lore that's the product of trying to merge two things - infiltrators taking over society, and Aliens, and doesn't really have redeeming value for existing. It doesn't have a deliberate message, and really just doesn't need to be. The Aliens reference is covered by Hive Fleet Genestealers already, so GSC if it needs to exist can cover the infiltrators, or just be deleted and let go with the other weird stuff from 40k's past.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/22 18:39:56
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Kanluwen wrote: They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy.
They don't believe anything. They're mind controlled by the patriarch. That's literally the whole thing with the genestealer's parasite that mind-links and enslaves the victim to the genestealer cult's will.
The rest of their space-rape-infiltrators-crap gets into the realm of having unfortunately implications no matter how you look at it about several things from sexual assault survivor challenges to terrorist organizations
Warhammer 40k has never been apolitical, since it's basically an extended telling of the failures of fascism and theocracy. However, the Genestealer cults and there themes aren't written as part of a political discussion. They're just there, and just awful. They're not horror, they're not funny, they're not exciting, they're not even particularly well in the heritage of classic sci-fi since the objectionable space-rape-mind-control-infiltrator-willing-propagator thing isn't actually in the heritage of Alien, which space hulk-luirking Hive Fleet Genestealers cover fine as well without unfortunate and uncomfortable implications.
Hi, maybe you are new to 40k (joking) but we have this thing called "Grim Dark" and ohh yeah, Slaanesh is a fething thing
Kanluwen wrote: Why in the hell would you change the GSC to that garbage?
That's the sheer frigging horror of the faction. They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy.
I don't know if that's true. Most of the GSC fluff tends to revolve around a superior life-form from beyond coming to deliver them from flawed humanity. They have a view of humanity similar to the Admech, just a different means of reducing it.
Kanluwen wrote: That the worlds they're on have been subjugated.
to be fair, completely true by any measurable objective standard.
Kanluwen wrote: They they need to rise up to liberate it. And more than that, they genuinely care and love their hideous alien-babies.
How much industrial suffering can you put a human being through before obliterating themselves to obliterate you is a worthwhile proposition, is the question posed by factions like chaos renegades and GSC.
Kanluwen wrote: They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy.
They don't believe anything. They're mind controlled by the patriarch. That's literally the whole thing with the genestealer's parasite that mind-links and enslaves the victim to the genestealer cult's will.
The rest of their space-rape-infiltrators-crap gets into the realm of having unfortunately implications no matter how you look at it about several things from sexual assault survivor challenges to terrorist organizations
Warhammer 40k has never been apolitical, since it's basically an extended telling of the failures of fascism and theocracy. However, the Genestealer cults and there themes aren't written as part of a political discussion. They're just there, and just awful. They're not horror, they're not funny, they're not exciting, they're not even particularly well in the heritage of classic sci-fi since the objectionable space-rape-mind-control-infiltrator-willing-propagator thing isn't actually in the heritage of Alien, which space hulk-luirking Hive Fleet Genestealers cover fine as well without unfortunate and uncomfortable implications.
Genestealers have always been Alien, but Genestealer Cults generally have been themed more in line with Shadows Over Innsmouth, which is where the whole structure of the cult and the genestealers reproduction via rape comes in.
From the descriptions of the way genestealer cults operate and fiction surrounding them, the Broodmind is not total mind control in the same way the Hivemind is. Genestealer Hybrids are not just basic animals in the way that tyranid hivemind creatures are. The broodmind allows for telepathic communications and commands, alters the perception of the people it affects, and allows for some psychic powers and such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 18:44:30
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Hi, maybe you are new to 40k (joking) but we have this thing called "Grim Dark" and ohh yeah, Slaanesh is a fething thing
The GSC isn't really grim or dark. It's just bad. The Imperium is grim and dark because it's a facsist theocracy in a perpetual state of war with the world. The Genestealers are really just shock value.
The Dark Eldar are also a thing. I don't have problems with Slaanesh or the Dark Eldar. Sex isn't a problem. Slaanesh is seductive and converts people by appealing to their primal desires, which is basically the opposite of the GSC. Dark Eldar are just BDSM. Neither really are problematic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 18:46:14
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Also, the reproduction through rape is MUCH MORE LITERAL in alien than in 40k's genestealer cults.
Alien: facehugger grabs person, impregnates person with chest burster, chest burster burst out of person.
Genestealer: Genestealer grabs person, implants a tiny organism that contains some of the genestealers genes, Genestealer hypnotizes person to forget what happened to them and to care for any weird hybrid babies they have.
Hi, maybe you are new to 40k (joking) but we have this thing called "Grim Dark" and ohh yeah, Slaanesh is a fething thing
Sex isn't a problem. Slaanesh is seductive and converts people by appealing to their primal desires, which is basically the opposite of the GSC./quote]
Every piece of lore I have read regarding how daemonettes etc appear to function would seem to have the exact same unfortunate implications that genestealers do. People aren't attracted to the fang-toothed crab clawed velociraptor legged monsters, they're hypnotized and made to think they're the objects of their desire. It's the whole "impossibly hot enchanting lady who is actually a horrific monster that wants to eat you/torture you to death" trope.
GSC reproduction is rape because the genestealer hypnotizes the victim.
Do not see how any interaction with any slaanesh thing is any different in terms of this particular problematic aspect.
Also, um, nope. Dark eldar are torture and murder, sex is pretty much never mentioned in their fiction at all in any form, people just associate them with bdsm because whips and spiky leather.
I don't know how we can label the horrific violation of bodily autonomy that is a haemonculus coven taking civilians from a diplomatic delegation of the tau and turning them into flesh monstrosities as 'not really problematic.'
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/22 18:59:43
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Also, um, nope. Dark eldar are torture and murder, sex is pretty much never mentioned in their fiction at all in any form, people just associate them with bdsm because whips and spiky leather.
I don't know how we can label the horrific violation of bodily autonomy that is a haemonculus coven taking civilians from a diplomatic delegation of the tau and turning them into flesh monstrosities as 'not really problematic.'
Dark Eldar styling used to be in the BDSM style. Dawn of War: Soulstorm used those when they introduced them. The tabletop models changed with the 5e restyling (thank goodness, imo).
Also remember that the Dark Eldar are the Aeldari who didn't stop their habits when they birthed Slaanesh, just refocused them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 19:08:35
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
Kanluwen wrote: They genuinely believe that they are the true inheritors of humanity's legacy.
They don't believe anything. They're mind controlled by the patriarch. That's literally the whole thing with the genestealer's parasite that mind-links and enslaves the victim to the genestealer cult's will.
The rest of their space-rape-infiltrators-crap gets into the realm of having unfortunately implications no matter how you look at it about several things from sexual assault survivor challenges to terrorist organizations
Warhammer 40k has never been apolitical, since it's basically an extended telling of the failures of fascism and theocracy. However, the Genestealer cults and there themes aren't written as part of a political discussion. They're just there, and just awful. They're not horror, they're not funny, they're not even particularly well in the heritage of classic sci-fi since the objectionable space-rape-mind-control-infiltrator-willing-propagator thing isn't actually in the heritage of Alien, which space hulk-luirking Hive Fleet Genestealers cover fine as well without unfortunate and uncomfortable implications.
This is a piece of lore that's the product of trying to merge two things - infiltrators taking over society, and Aliens, and doesn't really have redeeming value for existing. It doesn't have a deliberate message, and really just doesn't need to be. The Aliens reference is covered by Hive Fleet Genestealers already, so GSC if it needs to exist can cover the infiltrators, or just be deleted and let go with the other weird stuff from 40k's past.
I will note that cultural fears of social upheaval and revolution through genetic/racial/etc degradation or manipulation, often forcible or conspiratorially planned, are not exactly unheard of through the ages, and remain lightning rods (usually in reworded form) in modern political theater in many places. It's in fact hard to express much about this concept without it stepping into a lot of modern politics on that.
So, while I can understand why someone might find their concept objectionable, I think there's absolutely political themes in that concept just as much as there are in the Theocratic and Fascist elements of the Imperium.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
the_scotsman wrote: Also, the reproduction through rape is MUCH MORE LITERAL in alien than in 40k's genestealer cults.
Alien: facehugger grabs person, impregnates person with chest burster, chest burster burst out of person.
Genestealer: Genestealer grabs person, implants a tiny organism that contains some of the genestealers genes, Genestealer hypnotizes person to forget what happened to them and to care for any weird hybrid babies they have.
At least to me, the Alien one has so many fewer unfortunate implications. It's literally just the spider parasite wasp thing where it plants it's young on the host and then the young devour the host alive.
There are so many more problematic things about the Genestealers, from the mind control to the difference in the manner of reproduction to the connections between the aforementioned and insurgent organizations and survivor care.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vaktathi wrote: I will note that cultural fears of social upheaval and revolution through genetic/racial/etc degradation or manipulation, often forcible or conspiratorially planned, are not exactly unheard of through the ages, and remain lightning rods (usually in reworded form) in modern political theater in many places. It's in fact hard to express much about this concept without it stepping into a lot of modern politics on that.
So, while I can understand why someone might find their concept objectionable, I think there's absolutely political themes in that concept just as much as there are in the Theocratic and Fascist elements of the Imperium.
I get that.
That said, the Imperium's set up so that it has a satirical point. There's narrative purpose to the Imperium being the way it is. The genestealer cults... don't really. It's just there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/22 19:30:24
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
So firstly, saying 'get rid of it but put it in another codex' is a cop out; it is not actually cutting the army from the game as per the original premise (though I can understand retaining one or two units; like having Harlequins as an elite option for Eldar armies). I am personally considering anything without a codex not to count--too easy to just name Ynnari, Assassins, and Inquisitors so get the majority out of the way without making hard choices.
Harlequins are an easy choice; they have barely any model support in terms of kits and are not such a longstanding faction that their removal would draw a ton of rage. Custodes are even more obvious, for the same reasons. And while it goes against my aforementioned bit about rolling things into other 'dexes, these could each be represented by a single unit or two available to Eldar/Imperium respectively.
Grey Knights. Right from the concept an army designed to fight against a certain type of foe will cause balance issues; at best they will be OP against their favored enemy and UP against everyone else. Trying to offset this by giving their favored enemy a bonus when fighting them simply makes a balanced circumstance nearly impossible to achieve. Further, Grey Knights are an army where every unit is a psyker, which is difficult to manage. The core rules are based around a few units in an army being psykers if any, and it creates a huge skew on the part of the army which piles on further difficulty. It is always going to be an army difficult to write in such a way that it makes 40k better for being there.
Knights are one I have to consider. They are not a proper army like every other codex, just a handful of big robots. Not to mention the issues of scale, opponents not having the tools to deal with them, etc. However on the other hand giant killy robots are cool as hell and there is a lot of appeal there, plus they can be brought in to augment another army. However at the end of the day the LoW-level massive models are not what 40k is supposed to be about, doubly so with GW pushing the viability of smaller game sizes. So I would have to cut this one from 40k (of course the models could be kept around for Apocalypse). Considering Imperial & Chaos Knights to be just one choice since they are simply two sides of the same coin.
The last choice is a hard one. But I have to go with Marine supplements. The reality is that if we want to talk about bloat in the 40k range, Marines are where it is at. Consolidating datasheets down, eliminating units without a distinct purpose, and being less stingy with 'no model no rules' could easily create enough room for the chapter-specific units & stratagems. Having multiple pages of extra stratagems and relics for individual chapters already creates issues we see in the game right now.
For the record I would not like cutting any of these and I do not want to see any of them cut (ok maybe marine supplements).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/22 19:46:11
Harlequins have been around since RT. They are one of the oldest factions in the game, and *the* oldest still-extant Eldar sub-faction - they date to 1988, Craftworlds as sub-faction dates to 1991. The original eldar sub-faction was pirates/corsairs, something that doesn't really exist any more; technically there may still be a FW army list, but there is no model range.
The obvious choices in my mind are the two knights and custodes. None of these three armies ever belonged in normal 40k, the first two because of the scale, the third because of the lore.
After that there are no good choices, assuming you actually mean discontinuing an army, not just rolling into another one, which doesn't mean anything practically. It just comes down to what armies people care about least.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So firstly, saying 'get rid of it but put it in another codex' is a cop out; it is not actually cutting the army from the game as per the original premise (though I can understand retaining one or two units; like having Harlequins as an elite option for Eldar armies). I am personally considering anything without a codex not to count--too easy to just name Ynnari, Assassins, and Inquisitors so get the majority out of the way without making hard choices.
Actually it removes the army without removing the models. The army is just the organizational structure attached to the models. Some of those models are still "paying for themselves" and need to be continued so the return on investment is at least met. And the direction was to remove the armies, not the models.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: They're not horror, they're not funny, they're not even particularly well in the heritage of classic sci-fi since the objectionable space-rape-mind-control-infiltrator-willing-propagator thing isn't actually in the heritage of Alien, which space hulk-luirking Hive Fleet Genestealers cover fine as well without unfortunate and uncomfortable implications.
For "pop sci-fi" You have Invasion of the Body Snatchers and similar mind control stories.
For more "high-brow" Check out Lilith's Brood by Octavia Butler.
Rosemary's Baby also seems very relevant, the mother who (Spoilers for 40+ year old movie) gives birth to the spawn of satan and is horrified, but accepts and decides to love and care for it anyways.
That said, the Imperium's set up so that it has a satirical point. There's narrative purpose to the Imperium being the way it is. The genestealer cults... don't really. It's just there.
I think the satirical parts of the Genestealer cult are stemming from the sort of pop-culture fear of satanic cults in the 80's. And the early incarnations of the GSC specifically had Chaos worshipping sects, where the Patriarch would make a dark deal with a Greater Daemon and so forth.
In the end you have a combination of Alien, the "satanic panic", and Invasion of the Body Snatchers and you get the GSC.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/10/22 21:12:00
I actually don't mind Custodes. Sure you can hate on the lore but one thing they offer is a totally different design space after Marines equivalents and Nobz and such, and that's something to consider.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
If only this were actually true lol. I guess like, just try to never google what percentage of CEOs come from households that made more than a million dollars a year?
It's not usually direct nepotism, though there are some pretty obviously high profile examples of cartoonish nepotism in the world today with people whose qualification is "my daddy is the boss" but it's almost always "five members of the board are my daddy's country club buddies and they personally vouched for me having done such a good job chatting them up at our gala luncheons so I got the job."
My uncles build and worked in the same transport company since the 80s, when my older uncle got his second heart attack, his brother thought he would be running the company, but my older uncle used some lawyer tricks and made the boss my cousin who was 24 at the time and working as a driver. My uncle couldn't stand it, plus my cousin acted real bad against him. so he left to this day both part of our families don't talk to each other, although I must say that this is mostly because of the aunts who. Aunt Halina even went that far that when our grandfather died, she didn't inform uncle Leon and his family, and if my mom didn't call him, they wouldn't be on the funeral. Then durning christmas last year durning the fest of Jordan my aunts started to beat each other up, and now they have to go to two different churchs. Nepotism always ends bad, just as making buissness with family or friends.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
