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 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Which amounts to her being a str3 t3 character in power armour reliant on wargear. Why didn’t Abaddon just run into her?

Are you asking why in the context of the fluff, or in the context of the game rules?

In the context of the fluff - he did, when she was depowered.

In the context of the game rules - don't try to fit game rules to story plots.

A.T. wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Which amounts to her being a str3 t3 character in power armour reliant on wargear. Why didn’t Abaddon just run into her?

Are you asking why in the context of the fluff, or in the context of the game rules?

In the context of the fluff - he did, when she was depowered.

In the context of the game rules - don't try to fit game rules to story plots.

He killed her with a melee weapon (two mythical weapons with magical properties BTW a Primarch killer and a god killer) because it would have probably been degrading and humiliating to the character and the entire faction had that happened. If Abaddon ran into her and she exploded it would really not work with the tone and the characters image.

The point is that it was an utterly humiliating way to kill the character. Even random guardsmen get better deaths than that. Doing that to the poster character of a supposedly elite faction is a degrading act of vandalism. Dan had the option of just letting the screen fade to black. To include that paragraph is backhanded and a poor joke.

I do not have read the book and therefore may be missing something but from your excerpt alone I don't get at all how you could come to the conclusion, that Kharn run her over. There is just not enough to suggest that, and enough to go against it, i.e. the bloody axe, which implies that he actually fought her in blind rage.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Saint Wargear and Powers which you're conveniently skipping.

Honestly the OP has chosen such a bad hill to die on I'm kinda glad Krole died in a non-epic manner. Not every named Character has to die in some epic fight, anyway.

It’s not that the character didn’t get an epic fight. I don’t care how many world eaters she kills because it’s irrelevant. Same reason one tactical nuke isn’t lobbed at their human wave assaults. There’s always magically more of them. The point is that a character like Celestine has a degree of dignity even if they lose or are killed. That paragraph is only intended to humiliate the character and the faction. We’re not taking an anticlimactic end. It’s borderline spiteful towards her and the faction. Yeah we’re going to have the poster child pasted by Kharn and he won’t even realise. It’ll be so funny how easily he kills her. You have the option of screen fades to black and single out this character for that kind of humiliation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadox wrote:
I do not have read the book and therefore may be missing something but from your excerpt alone I don't get at all how you could come to the conclusion, that Kharn run her over. There is just not enough to suggest that, and enough to go against it, i.e. the bloody axe, which implies that he actually fought her in blind rage.

His axe is always bloody. This is whilst storming a spaceport so he’s went through thousands of people at this point.

There’s a strong emphasis on how strong Kharn is, the World Eaters are described as trampling things underfoot with Krole turning to wonder if she’ll be remembered. Then her thoughts are abruptly cut off. No entering a fight. No swings. Just a transition straight to Kharn who’s like what.Perhaps Dan left it ambivalent. But I think he was being tongue in cheek here and implying she hit the Khorne Train. No I really put this down as dark humour. He wants to stress that shes just another number and beneath the notice of Kharn. That story entails a humiliating death. Not, oh they had an epic duel but it was offscreen because he was in a rage. No this is bug on a windshield.

I am wondering what would be a satisfying way for Kharn to “die”. Really, screw this guy. None of this, oh but he used to be such an honourable warrior it’s so sad. Look how he cares for that one ship captain. He’s a maggot. Hopefully some guard lobs an earth shaker shell and pastes him. Runs onto a landmine because he wasn’t paying attention. Maybe he doesn’t see a world eater baneblade track as it rolls over him. I mean if he isn’t even paying attention that’s what would happen to you.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
There is not that massive a gap between Krole and Celestine.

Evidently there is, because one can fight Kharn and hold her own and the other is trampled underfoot.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
There is not that massive a gap between Krole and Celestine.

Evidently there is, because one can fight Kharn and hold her own and the other is trampled underfoot.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

"As the port fell, Krole slew many World Eaters but was confronted by Captain Kharn, now swelling with the powers of Khorne. She engaged him in battle, but was slain by the berserk World Eater, who was not certain what he had just slain due to Krole's near-invisibility."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jenetia_Krole

*Shrug* honestly, hadn't even heard of her before this thread.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

I am wondering what would be a satisfying way for Kharn to “die”. Really, screw this guy. None of this, oh but he used to be such an honourable warrior it’s so sad. Look how he cares for that one ship captain. He’s a maggot. Hopefully some guard lobs an earth shaker shell and pastes him. Runs onto a landmine because he wasn’t paying attention. Maybe he doesn’t see a world eater baneblade track as it rolls over him. I mean if he isn’t even paying attention that’s what would happen to you.

TBF, there has been a sort of discrepancy regarding Khorne champions and their fighting prowess since forever.
On the other hand, they have always been Chaos' top tier close combat specialists in both lore and gameplay, with stats like WS 2+ rerolling ones and the like.
On the other hand, their fighting style is usually described as a non-stop rage-blinded hackfest.
One quality does not really sit well with the other.

Crispy78 wrote:
"As the port fell, Krole slew many World Eaters but was confronted by Captain Kharn, now swelling with the powers of Khorne. She engaged him in battle, but was slain by the berserk World Eater, who was not certain what he had just slain due to Krole's near-invisibility."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jenetia_Krole

*Shrug* honestly, hadn't even heard of her before this thread.

She’s the leader of the Sisters of Silence who was hand picked by the Emperor and granted one of his swords to wield. She commanded the Sisters on Prospero where she killed many of the Thousand Sons sorcerers who apparently forgot they were Space Marines. Should have just rugby tackled her.

There’s a lot more of the character in the Forgeworld Black Book and that’s not surprising considering they make the majority of the army range such as it is. BL hasn’t done much with them.

I mean they’ve started implying Custodians can weaken demons by their presence apparently. But an army of Nulls has no utility when you’re fighting Chaos. It should not be difficult to involve the faction. Like, the leader of this faction just gets up and wanders out the High Council and nobody realises. That’s kind of a meme. Can you imagine if late books they have to you turn and be like oh yeah, demonic invasion. I can’t fight an enemy that can look at reality and say no. Shame I misplaced the leader of this faction.

Crispy78 wrote:
"As the port fell, Krole slew many World Eaters but was confronted by Captain Kharn, now swelling with the powers of Khorne. She engaged him in battle, but was slain by the berserk World Eater, who was not certain what he had just slain due to Krole's near-invisibility."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jenetia_Krole

*Shrug* honestly, hadn't even heard of her before this thread.

Kharn hits everything on a 2+, remember that!


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 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Saint Wargear and Powers which you're conveniently skipping.

Honestly the OP has chosen such a bad hill to die on I'm kinda glad Krole died in a non-epic manner. Not every named Character has to die in some epic fight, anyway.

It’s not that the character didn’t get an epic fight. I don’t care how many world eaters she kills because it’s irrelevant. Same reason one tactical nuke isn’t lobbed at their human wave assaults. There’s always magically more of them. The point is that a character like Celestine has a degree of dignity even if they lose or are killed. That paragraph is only intended to humiliate the character and the faction. We’re not taking an anticlimactic end. It’s borderline spiteful towards her and the faction. Yeah we’re going to have the poster child pasted by Kharn and he won’t even realise. It’ll be so funny how easily he kills her. You have the option of screen fades to black and single out this character for that kind of humiliation.


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 Shadox wrote:
I do not have read the book and therefore may be missing something but from your excerpt alone I don't get at all how you could come to the conclusion, that Kharn run her over. There is just not enough to suggest that, and enough to go against it, i.e. the bloody axe, which implies that he actually fought her in blind rage.

His axe is always bloody. This is whilst storming a spaceport so he’s went through thousands of people at this point.

There’s a strong emphasis on how strong Kharn is, the World Eaters are described as trampling things underfoot with Krole turning to wonder if she’ll be remembered. Then her thoughts are abruptly cut off. No entering a fight. No swings. Just a transition straight to Kharn who’s like what.Perhaps Dan left it ambivalent. But I think he was being tongue in cheek here and implying she hit the Khorne Train. No I really put this down as dark humour. He wants to stress that shes just another number and beneath the notice of Kharn. That story entails a humiliating death. Not, oh they had an epic duel but it was offscreen because he was in a rage. No this is bug on a windshield.

I am wondering what would be a satisfying way for Kharn to “die”. Really, screw this guy. None of this, oh but he used to be such an honourable warrior it’s so sad. Look how he cares for that one ship captain. He’s a maggot. Hopefully some guard lobs an earth shaker shell and pastes him. Runs onto a landmine because he wasn’t paying attention. Maybe he doesn’t see a world eater baneblade track as it rolls over him. I mean if he isn’t even paying attention that’s what would happen to you.

Uh it's humiliating to have a character be killed by Kharn? Once again you're proving 100% you don't know anything about Kharn and his lore. Krole is a totally new creation and frankly she's a nobody, no matter how much you like her. Be lucky it wasn't another random no-name Traitor Captain that killed her.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
"As the port fell, Krole slew many World Eaters but was confronted by Captain Kharn, now swelling with the powers of Khorne. She engaged him in battle, but was slain by the berserk World Eater, who was not certain what he had just slain due to Krole's near-invisibility."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jenetia_Krole

*Shrug* honestly, hadn't even heard of her before this thread.

Kharn hits everything on a 2+, remember that!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Saint Wargear and Powers which you're conveniently skipping.

Honestly the OP has chosen such a bad hill to die on I'm kinda glad Krole died in a non-epic manner. Not every named Character has to die in some epic fight, anyway.

It’s not that the character didn’t get an epic fight. I don’t care how many world eaters she kills because it’s irrelevant. Same reason one tactical nuke isn’t lobbed at their human wave assaults. There’s always magically more of them. The point is that a character like Celestine has a degree of dignity even if they lose or are killed. That paragraph is only intended to humiliate the character and the faction. We’re not taking an anticlimactic end. It’s borderline spiteful towards her and the faction. Yeah we’re going to have the poster child pasted by Kharn and he won’t even realise. It’ll be so funny how easily he kills her. You have the option of screen fades to black and single out this character for that kind of humiliation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadox wrote:
I do not have read the book and therefore may be missing something but from your excerpt alone I don't get at all how you could come to the conclusion, that Kharn run her over. There is just not enough to suggest that, and enough to go against it, i.e. the bloody axe, which implies that he actually fought her in blind rage.

His axe is always bloody. This is whilst storming a spaceport so he’s went through thousands of people at this point.

There’s a strong emphasis on how strong Kharn is, the World Eaters are described as trampling things underfoot with Krole turning to wonder if she’ll be remembered. Then her thoughts are abruptly cut off. No entering a fight. No swings. Just a transition straight to Kharn who’s like what.Perhaps Dan left it ambivalent. But I think he was being tongue in cheek here and implying she hit the Khorne Train. No I really put this down as dark humour. He wants to stress that shes just another number and beneath the notice of Kharn. That story entails a humiliating death. Not, oh they had an epic duel but it was offscreen because he was in a rage. No this is bug on a windshield.

I am wondering what would be a satisfying way for Kharn to “die”. Really, screw this guy. None of this, oh but he used to be such an honourable warrior it’s so sad. Look how he cares for that one ship captain. He’s a maggot. Hopefully some guard lobs an earth shaker shell and pastes him. Runs onto a landmine because he wasn’t paying attention. Maybe he doesn’t see a world eater baneblade track as it rolls over him. I mean if he isn’t even paying attention that’s what would happen to you.

Uh it's humiliating to have a character be killed by Kharn? Once again you're proving 100% you don't know anything about Kharn and his lore. Krole is a totally new creation and frankly she's a nobody, no matter how much you like her. Be lucky it wasn't another random no-name Traitor Captain that killed her.

It’s humiliating to have any character killed by accident by the villain and told they didn’t matter. If that happened to any character it would be humiliating and that was intentional. Ol Pearson gets to be chopped down by Angron who takes the time to grant him a heroic death and he’s just an undercover Solar Auxilia. I’d rather have a random captain kill her in a straight fight than what Dan did here. Easily. It’s not okay because it’s Kharn.

It’s been a few years since I’ve read the paragraph or so in the 3.5 Chaos dex. But the way Dan rights it in Saturnine Khorne could bless any lump of meat and have the same results. He’s clearly just a meat puppet for Khornes power and his fighting style consists of flailing about whilst miraculously not falling over on his own axe. He’s not a man. He’s a weak willed pathetic coward who’s given in to his base nature and become a slave to darkness. Any Guardsman is infinitely more brave and a better human being than that monster. They don’t have sugar daddy Khorne spoon feeding them power to win their battles. So no I am not buying this “ohh but he’s some honourable noble savage dude” and I am not even convinced Dan was driving for that here compared to ADB in Betrayed. Iam just saying. Screw him, it will be good when he realises they’ve lost and his Legion are going to be cursed to ten thousand years of agony. Him and his World Eaters are a joke. The Emperor should have killed Angron and his Legion when he had the chance.

Plus in the passage it’s stated that the number and quality of kills Khorne gets is unimportant to Khorne followers. That’s simply not the case. Khorne certainly cares about the number which is why he’s so keen to collect them and rewards his followers on this basis. Whilst his blood thirsters like Kabandha show great interest in distinguishing the Blood of Sanguinius from the common civilian. They can bleat on about the blood flowing but it’s clearly not all equal. So again, this was Dan driving for a particular theme. Khorne would probably be quite pleased taking the skull of one the Emperors faction leaders.

Perhaps he was forced to include that character in the book by the process (as we know the writers of these novels have some pretty strict rails they have to stay inside) and had no interest in doing so, and this is his FU to the process?

I dunno. I hate the Perpetuals and how they are written and would much rather have that time spent with more interesting characters.

 Da Boss wrote:
Perhaps he was forced to include that character in the book by the process (as we know the writers of these novels have some pretty strict rails they have to stay inside) and had no interest in doing so, and this is his FU to the process?

I dunno. I hate the Perpetuals and how they are written and would much rather have that time spent with more interesting characters.

Yeah I’ve never really got the Perpetuals. I can buy the Emperor being the god of humanity. But humanity being the only species to have X men style Mutants taken to be our Gods. No. That doesn’t make sense. Why wouldn’t Necrons, Eldar and all the other ancient races beyond humanity have such power over immortality?

But that’s the thing. It really makes no sense to use the Sisters of Silence leader at this point in the story. They’re an anti Psyker force involved in the purge of the Thousand Sons. You’re passing up addressing it with the Thousand Sons or the Webway Arcs. You know the more psyker, witch and demon focused stuff. Why not have Ahrihim get revenge for his kin? That’s a much more natural and straight forward play than the leader thinking she needs to go fight alone at this spaceport to die. It’s incredibly random and basically a meme.

Plus, they play on her Null field being strong enough that people don’t notice she’s there and making her invisible. Which is the exact opposite of how Nulls have been depicted. They’re meant to be so soulless and horrific that people are repulsed by them. You know there’s something unnatural and wrong about them. Dan only did this to get that punchline and the meme of nobody at the council realising one of their generals wandered off.

Tbh that was one of my favourite scenes of the book, I found Krole’s story really poetic as a metaphor for how the SoS were treated in general.

Treated as tools rather than people the whole time - even more than Astartes (and that scene where she was used as a human anti bug device really drove it home); and despite the huge and battle turning force multiplication they provided, ultimate ground up by the Siege and forgotten afterwards.

Also, given her invisibility powers, being killed by accident was ultimately the only way she *could* have been killed. Killed by a blow with Gorechild from the infamous Khârn, one of the strongest melee fighters outside the primarchs, is much more fitting than say being hit by a random blast.

Lord Zarkov wrote:
Tbh that was one of my favourite scenes of the book, I found Krole’s story really poetic as a metaphor for how the SoS were treated in general.

Treated as tools rather than people the whole time - even more than Astartes (and that scene where she was used as a human anti bug device really drove it home); and despite the huge and battle turning force multiplication they provided, ultimate ground up by the Siege and forgotten afterwards.

Also, given her invisibility powers, being killed by accident was ultimately the only way she *could* have been killed. Killed by a blow with Gorechild from the infamous Khârn, one of the strongest melee fighters outside the primarchs, is much more fitting than say being hit by a random blast.

That’s because the writers underdeveloped the faction. You have to go look at the FW black book for most of their lore. Because, fun fact, selling expensive models is great incentive to write about them.

It isn’t consistent with the Emperor hand picking her and giving him one of his swords. A trusted confidant. When you see them in Eisenstein they’re taken seriously as the Emperors Agents and have a base on Luna at the Heart of the Imperium. There’s no suggestion they’re disposable tools and that they aren’t valued for their abilities. BL just kind of forgot about them after Prospero.

Why wouldn’t super intelligent Primarches see the value and utility of an army of anti witch and anti warp soldiers in a Chaos Invasion? Well, they haven’t actually been used in the siege yet in any major capacity. It makes the Primarches, especially Mr Empathy Sanguinius, seem incredibly dumb to not place value on something like that. In the Beast Arises the IF Chapter Master comes to that conclusion on his own and seeks them out.

Well, it’s a real shame since Terras gonna be demon invaded in the second half of the series so sucks to be them.

I don’t buy working backwards and trying to make a theme out of the writers opting to under-develop them.

I’d honestly take the artillery shell. It’s a lot more dignified and not a meme.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
The point is that it was an utterly humiliating way to kill the character. Even random guardsmen get better deaths than that.

Didn't Kharn get randomly run over by a passing tank in his first big fight?

Kharn the Betrayer: "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the..." (crunch)
Driver: "Did you hear that?"
Gunner: "Something about scones?"
Driver: "mmmm. Scones."
Kharn the Hood Ornament: "I'll get you next time Loken! Next tiiiiiiiime!" (fades off into the distance)

I mean I get your point, why include a named character if they are going to step out of the transport onto a landmine in the first five minutes. But i've not read the book for context - was this some big 'and the world is overrun and everyone dies, no exceptions' kind of ending or did Krole do literally nothing except drop her name and get run over?

A.T. wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
The point is that it was an utterly humiliating way to kill the character. Even random guardsmen get better deaths than that.

Didn't Kharn get randomly run over by a passing tank in his first big fight?

Kharn the Betrayer: "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the..." (crunch)
Driver: "Did you hear that?"
Gunner: "Something about scones?"
Driver: "mmmm. Scones."
Kharn the Hood Ornament: "I'll get you next time Loken! Next tiiiiiiiime!" (fades off into the distance)

I mean I get your point, why include a named character if they are going to step out of the transport onto a landmine in the first five minutes. But i've not read the book for context - was this some big 'and the world is overrun and everyone dies, no exceptions' kind of ending or did Krole do literally nothing except drop her name and get run over?

After he fought Loken and it’s a team rocket blasting off again moment; he doesn’t actually die die. The intent was to push Loken being a good fighter and contrast the change to his earlier appearance in the novel.

There is a whole subplot where she goes to this spaceport (suspiciously undermanned BTW) to help the common soldiers in their last stand. The excerpt is basically the last section of that.

Giving some context to Kroles demise in Saturnine.
She dispatches numerous World Eater 'named and famed' Captains and Warlords before she has the misfortune to be run over by Kharn. Absolutely spanks them. She takes enough scalps to embarrass the relative few 'heroes' the galaxy has at this time

Also in context Angron and Kharn are at the height of their patron gods favour. Kharn is keeping up with Angron skull for skull at this point. he has even been directly guide by Khornes spirt earlier in the campaign when teeing up The Iron Lords Lt to start blood letting.

Krole had no chance against one of the two most important champions Khorne has at that moment in history. She would have been absolutely mullered in direct face to face combat.

The premier blank would have been left as mush under the full weight of a gods rage and anger made flesh.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Giving some context to Kroles demise in Saturnine.
She dispatches numerous World Eater 'named and famed' Captains and Warlords before she has the misfortune to be run over by Kharn. Absolutely spanks them. She takes enough scalps to embarrass the relative few 'heroes' the galaxy has at this time

Also in context Angron and Kharn are at the height of their patron gods favour. Kharn is keeping up with Angron skull for skull at this point. he has even been directly guide by Khornes spirt earlier in the campaign when teeing up The Iron Lords Lt to start blood letting.

Krole had no chance against one of the two most important champions Khorne has at that moment in history. She would have been absolutely mullered in direct face to face combat.

The premier blank would have been left as mush under the full weight of a gods rage and anger made flesh.

Which amounts to the buildup to a punchline.

If Dan had simply faded to black, it would be weird that she’d wandered off and died like that. Another missed opportunity with the faction. But no no. Had to put a humiliating paragraph in before moving on to his perpetual character getting a heroic death.

Ultimately that’s hitting the random name generator. These are nobody characters who get respawned because reasons. Show don’t tell. Functionally she could kill ten thousand World Eaters and it would not impact the plot. Just like Dorns army killing 20 thousand Emperors Children is irrelevant. Frankly a few heavy bolters should be enough to kill a Legion who mindlessly advances over open ground like that without fire support or sanity. Especially when Nulls and the Emperor should be shutting down their warp reality bending nonsense thats a crutch for everything that faction does.

Oh yeah I rely on magic blood mist to shield my army from bullets and artillery. I rely on unnatural healing to recover from gun wounds that would blow a normal space marine in two. What’s that? Oh yeah that all turns off the second you go near a Null. At the very least their casualties should skyrocket in every fight. There shouldn’t be any world eaters left if they’re fighting like this. They are totally reliant on Chaos to pull off what they’re doing. It’s not skill. It’s magic. That should not be immune to the presence of Nulls. Cut that and they die like flies because they’re too dumb to fight like a real army anymore.You think Angron and his meatheads would stand a chance against the Emperor and his Talons? Oh they storm an empty spaceport. Ohhh. I am so impressed.

I'd rather SoS had some named characters in current-timeline 40k. I could give a toss about HH-era characters.

Khârn should be terrifying in melee though. He should be able to take on Primarchs.

Hecaton wrote:
I'd rather SoS had some named characters in current-timeline 40k. I could give a toss about HH-era characters.

Khârn should be terrifying in melee though. He should be able to take on Primarchs.

I feel like kharn gets a bit overrated here. Him being able to kill krole rather easily makes sense, I just agree with a point made earlier that the scene could have been handled better from a storytelling perspective.

But kharn taking on Primarchs? Yeah no chance, even now being one of khornes favorites he'd get roflstomped so hard. Him being a problem for most everyone else short something like greater demons and c'tan? Any time of the day, dude's terrifying.

Edit: also we have one named SoS character in 40k: Aleya from watchers of the throne. And I think she is actually quite well written, which is nice.

I feel like you're talking past everybody at this point OP, like you're within your rights to hate the scene on a personal note, but I think at this point it's been established that Krole dying to Kharn is neither unrealistic nor out of the realm of the fluff. It's not like she hasn't done anything the whole book, she has killed high ranking marines and contributed to what she can do against the traitors, but against what is basically a force of nature she kicks the bucket.

Tiberias wrote:
But kharn taking on Primarchs? Yeah no chance, even now being one of khornes favorites he'd get roflstomped so hard. Him being a problem for most everyone else short something like greater demons and c'tan? Any time of the day, dude's terrifying.

My point is that if he isn't, he should be. Primarchs have also been portrayed as being at varying levels of power with respect to regular Astartes, and ditto for Astartes compared to normal humans.

Hecaton wrote:
I'd rather SoS had some named characters in current-timeline 40k. I could give a toss about HH-era characters.

Khârn should be terrifying in melee though. He should be able to take on Primarchs.

In what sense? We’ve had a fair few novels and short stories. Plus in the Dawn of Fire series looks like Ebon Chalice will be featuring so they are being put into a multi book story as well.

In terms of characters with models they only just got a range refresh. I imagine if they were popular enough we will see additional characters added. Which probably would entail a tie in novel down the road. I could certainly see a Bloody Rose named character down the line.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
I'd rather SoS had some named characters in current-timeline 40k. I could give a toss about HH-era characters.

Khârn should be terrifying in melee though. He should be able to take on Primarchs.

In what sense? We’ve had a fair few novels and short stories. Plus in the Dawn of Fire series looks like Ebon Chalice will be featuring so they are being put into a multi book story as well.

In terms of characters with models they only just got a range refresh. I imagine if they were popular enough we will see additional characters added. Which probably would entail a tie in novel down the road. I could certainly see a Bloody Rose named character down the line.

Sisters of Silence, not Sisters of Battle.

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like you're talking past everybody at this point OP, like you're within your rights to hate the scene on a personal note, but I think at this point it's been established that Krole dying to Kharn is neither unrealistic nor out of the realm of the fluff. It's not like she hasn't done anything the whole book, she has killed high ranking marines and contributed to what she can do against the traitors, but against what is basically a force of nature she kicks the bucket.

I am rather skeptical that it’s going to factor into the plot that the World Eaters have had fifty “champions” killed. It would be backhanded for Dan Abnett to say the character does not matter and then a later writer make a big deal about it. As no rank is given you can’t ascertain if she’s just killing a tactical marine or a Praetor. Plus, since they’re clearly just meat bags relying on Khorne to herd them into the battle and direct their blows; Kind of doesn’t matter how many of them die. You can’t gut the command structure of an angry mob.

Frankly I think Dan only listed off the name generator of World Eater characters to add to the joke. Plus, I dunno, the editor probably thought was a bit much to have her steamrolled by Kharn without stabbing a few random tactical marines. Branding and what not. But it’s almost an afterthought. Everything from her powers builds to that throwaway joke.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hecaton wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
I'd rather SoS had some named characters in current-timeline 40k. I could give a toss about HH-era characters.

Khârn should be terrifying in melee though. He should be able to take on Primarchs.

In what sense? We’ve had a fair few novels and short stories. Plus in the Dawn of Fire series looks like Ebon Chalice will be featuring so they are being put into a multi book story as well.

In terms of characters with models they only just got a range refresh. I imagine if they were popular enough we will see additional characters added. Which probably would entail a tie in novel down the road. I could certainly see a Bloody Rose named character down the line.

Sisters of Silence, not Sisters of Battle.

They’d need to have an army release similar to Custodians before that happens. FW handles their lore because they have a few kits. GW only has one.

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
But kharn taking on Primarchs? Yeah no chance, even now being one of khornes favorites he'd get roflstomped so hard. Him being a problem for most everyone else short something like greater demons and c'tan? Any time of the day, dude's terrifying.

My point is that if he isn't, he should be. Primarchs have also been portrayed as being at varying levels of power with respect to regular Astartes, and ditto for Astartes compared to normal humans.

Agree to disagree here, he really shouldn't be and should not be portrayed that way. Kharn isn't even the best mortal fighter around in my opinion, if you go by melee prowess and sheer skill alone that title probably belongs to lelith hesperax. Kharn beating up normal custodians I can also see, but trajann valoris could most likely give him a run for his money and he is not primarch tier even though he is currently the most powerful warrior of the adeptus custodes (valdor not included who would also stomp kharn). Hell, he gets memed on a lot but abaddon could take kharn on a good day and he is definitely not primarch tier.
Kharn is an absolute melee monster and a nightmare to deal with for almost every warrior in the galaxy, but he is not primarch tier that would make zero sense.

Tiberias wrote:
Agree to disagree here, he really shouldn't be and should not be portrayed that way. Kharn isn't even the best mortal fighter around in my opinion, if you go by melee prowess and sheer skill alone that title probably belongs to lelith hesperax.

Nah, the rules have pretty consistently portrayed Khârn as being a cut above; in most editions he had rules that would bypass the normal rules for hitting in close combat. I think there's a strong argument that Khârn is the most skilled melee combatant in 40k.

Tiberias wrote:
Kharn beating up normal custodians I can also see, but trajann valoris could most likely give him a run for his money and he is not primarch tier even though he is currently the most powerful warrior of the adeptus custodes (valdor not included who would also stomp kharn). Hell, he gets memed on a lot but abaddon could take kharn on a good day and he is definitely not primarch tier.
Kharn is an absolute melee monster and a nightmare to deal with for almost every warrior in the galaxy, but he is not primarch tier that would make zero sense.

I think it would have made much more narrative sense for Khârn to be capable of challenging a Primarch in a duel. The idea of "only Primarchs matter, and nobody in the modern 40k universe matters except awakened Primarchs" is toxic to the narrative.

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
Agree to disagree here, he really shouldn't be and should not be portrayed that way. Kharn isn't even the best mortal fighter around in my opinion, if you go by melee prowess and sheer skill alone that title probably belongs to lelith hesperax.

Nah, the rules have pretty consistently portrayed Khârn as being a cut above; in most editions he had rules that would bypass the normal rules for hitting in close combat. I think there's a strong argument that Khârn is the most skilled melee combatant in 40k.

Tiberias wrote:
Kharn beating up normal custodians I can also see, but trajann valoris could most likely give him a run for his money and he is not primarch tier even though he is currently the most powerful warrior of the adeptus custodes (valdor not included who would also stomp kharn). Hell, he gets memed on a lot but abaddon could take kharn on a good day and he is definitely not primarch tier.
Kharn is an absolute melee monster and a nightmare to deal with for almost every warrior in the galaxy, but he is not primarch tier that would make zero sense.

I think it would have made much more narrative sense for Khârn to be capable of challenging a Primarch in a duel. The idea of "only Primarchs matter, and nobody in the modern 40k universe matters except awakened Primarchs" is toxic to the narrative.

I wholeheartedly agree with the second part. That is why I think the swarmlord for example should be closer to primarch tier. Avatars of khaine should be a way bigger threat and not constantly used to make space marines look cool. Phoenix lords should be portrayed more powerful on the lore. So awakened primarchs should not be the lone top dogs, but they are way up there. So yeah whether you like guilliman or not, he may not be the best warrior compared to his other brothers, but in the current setting he simply is one of the top dogs when it comes to combat prowess (I'm not talking about warp shenanigans, cause that skews every comparison).

Edit: many people say that comparing in-lore powerlevels is stupid and I can unterstand why, but in my opinion portraying in-lore powerlevels for a war game setting like 40k where combat simply is a primary focus of the fluff, is supremely important. And it is even more important to do them constistently in my opinion.
So, portraying primarchs as these supremely powerful mythical figures is fine as long as you give the other factions mythical characters that are a threat to them. And GW has failed to that for many factions.

Editedit: Considering all that, kharn shouldn't be able to challenge a primarch in a duel imo.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Giving some context to Kroles demise in Saturnine.
She dispatches numerous World Eater 'named and famed' Captains and Warlords before she has the misfortune to be run over by Kharn. Absolutely spanks them. She takes enough scalps to embarrass the relative few 'heroes' the galaxy has at this time

Also in context Angron and Kharn are at the height of their patron gods favour. Kharn is keeping up with Angron skull for skull at this point. he has even been directly guide by Khornes spirt earlier in the campaign when teeing up The Iron Lords Lt to start blood letting.

Krole had no chance against one of the two most important champions Khorne has at that moment in history. She would have been absolutely mullered in direct face to face combat.

The premier blank would have been left as mush under the full weight of a gods rage and anger made flesh.

So some no-name character that was recently introduced and just human overall happened to be able to kill a bunch of Captains for the Marine Legion all about gladiatorial combat?

If anything the OP is completely off base. That reeks of Mary Sue. OP should be glad she even got as much as she did.