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Someone gotta be poster boys, they're fine.

Ultramarines from Ultramar.. Never been a fan. Even since Rogue Trader, other chapters have just felt cooler (And the Crimson Fists were the poster bois of that era)

Sure enough, blue is among the easiest acrylic colour to paint, and the upside down omega symbol easy to freehand, but they feel too much like goody-two-shoes; In my personal headcanon, Marines have always been psychos with daddy issues and not some white knights Sicariusing away.

Little Timmy also plays them so it gives a bit of a cognitive bias for an older mongrel like myself.. If someone claims Space Marines are the heroes of the setting and the IoM are the "good guys", I can never agree with them on anything.

I've always felt the crimson fists would be better poster boys, both narratively and visually. The slightly darker shade and red accents bring things down from BLUEBLUEBLUE as well as subtly implying the darker setting while still being light enough to make details readily visible. They aren't super specialized but they don't suffer from being extremely generic either--if anything it feels like Ultramarines are specialized in being super well-rounded at everything.

I'm a weird one in that sometimes seeing things get blown up or take severe casualties in fiction makes me like them more.

I used to hate the Arquitens in Star Wars, until Rebels blew one up every other week.

I also used to hate the Ultramarines, but now after listening to Know No Fear, I've got a 30k army mostly comprised of Infantry of varying kinds, including 60 Legion Tactical Marines.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I've always felt the crimson fists would be better poster boys, both narratively and visually. The slightly darker shade and red accents bring things down from BLUEBLUEBLUE as well as subtly implying the darker setting while still being light enough to make details readily visible. They aren't super specialized but they don't suffer from being extremely generic either--if anything it feels like Ultramarines are specialized in being super well-rounded at everything.

I always associate the fist symbol with Space Marines. Fits their psycho transhuman nazi depiction

I’m a fan.

Not my first army, but the one I stuck with. For a few reasons. One was the paint. The blue was a lot easier to do than red. The other was playstyle. Back in 3rd (when I was making thew call to keep expanding the couple squads I had painted for them rather than continue my BAs) Ultras were underdogs. But they did their job like proper soldiers; you told them to hold the line, they did it. None of this running amuck on a 6, and refusing to move crap. Other chapters were marines++. They did everything we could, but with extra whistles and bells. But we just kept on marching for Macragge, with courage and honour. It wasn’t until fairly recently that Ultras got slapped with the OP tag.

Some of the fluff is crazy. Some is stupid. This could be said about most chapters, but Ultras, being in the spotlight, take the brunt of it. The Ward era did not help with this, with his fanboy hyperbole. And is, I think, the core of the memeing of Ultra hate.

Ultras are not without flaws. But it’s nothing obvious, like turning into vampires or werewolves. It’s pride. Good old fashioned hubris, which has been laying low heroes since antiquity. Which fits nicely with the roman flavor of the chapter. We don’t deal with new things well, or sudden changes. We’re Ultramarines, we can take ‘em; we’re better than they are, perfect in the art of war. After we get our teeth kicked in however, we’ll be back for another try, after learning from our failure. It’s not the stubborn tenacity of the Fists (they would never fall back to lick their wounds and learn, they would fight to the last man, taking such a price for their blood that the foe would not recover) or just overcoming the odds and winning the first time (do Space Wolves ever loose?). Just a little pride and practicality at work.

I'm neutral. After they got past the cringe-worthy Wardian fluff in 5th, they got normalized again as the Codex Astartes standard of what a chapter was supposed to be, so I'm pretty apathetic towards them. They're not egregiously annoying in fluff or gimmicky like SW are, nor are they bad looking visually so at worst I feel apathetic towards them as a faction.

SamusDrake wrote:
When did Dakka turn into english class?

1997.

 Just Tony wrote:

As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."

Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...

I used to get the same thing with my first space marine army. They were metallic green with flames on the shoulder pads, and people would invariably say 'Oh, are they Dark Angels?'

 Just Tony wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else

As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."

Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...

Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?

Dam we got a second Heresy brewing over here with an attack like that.

Overall I'm neutral on Ultramarines. I do like RT Ultramarines and think the compendium cover art is the best Ultramarine art there has ever been, and modern Ultramarines can be interesting for their empire-building tensions with the rest of the Imperial institutions, but I'm not very into the grecoromanticism or bright blue and gold scheme.


So yeah. Neutral. If someone has models that are a neat interpretation then I'll possibly like that, though. I'm not biased.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else

As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."

Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...

Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?

0/10

Been trolled harder by better, thoroughly disappointed.

NinthMusketeer wrote:Dam we got a second Heresy brewing over here with an attack like that.

Sometimes you look at the attacker and.realize a wat is neither necessary or worth it.

The Tyrannic wars really sell them to me. That and their cool paint scheme.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.

Good One! Honestly, I don't care about them one way or another. I don't hate them, nor do I care enough to like them. Their background was rather boring to me. I picked the Crimson Fists as my "Book" chapter for that reason, I liked the background.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else

As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."

Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...

Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?

Well it could be worse, a chapter could have all the resources in the galaxy at their fingertips and still have a hive fleet of 'Nids drop by and destroy their home planet and half of the chapter.

I like Smurfs as long as they are:

1. Not Primaris

2. Blue and yellow, not blue and gold.


They were my first army back in ninety-whatever, so I have a soft spot for their shiny blueness, even now.

Who ?

Never had a Ultramarine army in 40k. My first army was Space Wolves. When I played epic my whole force was Ultramarines. Since then they lightened up the blue for them a little.

They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.

I play Death Guard because, when plagued by disease, they did not overcome it when Johnny Plague Marine drew his mighty chainsword and triumphedt, but at great cost. They didn't defeat disease, but merely survived it by becoming its slave. Despite the brochures, everything is not fine in the garden of Nurgle!

I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.

 TonyH122 wrote:
They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.

I play Death Guard because, when plagued by disease, they did not overcome it when Johnny Plague Marine drew his mighty chainsword and triumphedt, but at great cost. They didn't defeat disease, but merely survived it by becoming its slave. Despite the brochures, everything is not fine in the garden of Nurgle!

I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.

You put into words a feeling I have been struggling to define for years, thank you.

2nd edition Codex Ultramarines was my first ever 40k 'dex. In fairness it was a great book for someone like me with only an inkling of how marines worked. Should have been called Space Marines though, agreed. From memory it did do a pretty good job at deliving into the other five chapters despite the name?

I really love Ultramarines in the 30k lore, Don't mind them in 40k either. If I were to make an Ultramarines army, it'd be with an Age of Darkness slant.

They're fine, I guess, I think I'd prefer it though if there was a bit more variation of what gets put out there in the official materials in terms of Codex-compliant Marines. Wouldn't ever paint/play them myself as I feel like there's too many out there already.

TonyH122 wrote:They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.

Somewhat agree and disagree.

Do the Ultramarines have a Deep Dark Secret or Horrific Bloodline Curse that could tarnish their reputation? No, of course not.

But there are a few factors I can immediately think of that paint the Ultramarines in a much shadier light than just "sitting pretty in the grimdark".
1. Their flaw is their own history and clinging to the Codex. Sure, I subscribe to the idea that the Codex is fairly flexible and isn't just "if in case of X, do Y", but the Ultramarines are still guided and devoted to it. They struggled greatly against Behemoth because of this, and were even outmanoeuvred by the Farsight Enclaves who were able to create their Mirrorcodex. Sure, they follow the Codex to victory, but they're the perfect example of the Imperium's dogmatic and traditionalist outlook.

2. They follow the rules - the rules of a genuinely awful and horrific regime. Ultramar might be one of the best places to live in the Imperium, and the Ultramarines themselves might be one of the more humanitarian Chapters out there, but they're still Space Marines, and are nowhere near as resistant to other Imperial authority like the Space Wolves. They're the expression of the "following orders" idea - and as we know, the Imperium's orders are pretty horrific. I'd say that the fact that they are considered "ideal" Space Marines is arguably one of the most chilling things about them - because an ideal Space Marine is a Space Marine carrying out the acts of the bloodiest regime imaginable.

I like them and do find them somewhat interesting.

I just wish they'd devote equal attention to all the other non-snowflake chapters for fluff/model support.

I wasn't really sure if I should do something special for my 40,000th post (that's this post, BTW). In the end I couldn't decide on what to do, but then I saw this thread, and figured this fits well. It's not something trivial about a new release or preview, or a question of rules or tactics, or a complaint, or taking someone to task for being a moron (it's been a hard 7 days without posting...). No. Instead, this is something to do with my first army:

The Ultramarines.

Now I say first army, but really I started two armies at the same time: Ultramarines and Tyranids. The fact that the two would become so intertwined in the fluff was't really a thing back then, but as you got Marines and Tyranids in the first GW product I ever bought (Tyranid Attack), it can technically count as my first army (and so can 'Nids! ).

So, why Ultramarines? Well, there's a quote in this thread that sums it up quite well:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm also a fan of the color blue.

I like blue. At the time the differences between Space Marine Chapters was really just their colour (and Chapter symbol, I suppose), so your choices were very light blue, red, blue or green (Salamanders were a big thing before Dark Angels were). Never liked red that much, green didn't interest me, the light blue didn't appeal, but the deeper rich blue of the Ultramarines was my thing.

So I went with them. It wasn't a question of fluff or miniatures back then. It was pretty much just down to the colour you like.

I have continued to like the Ultramarines since then, never wavering once. Hell, when my household got the Internet for the first time, way back in the days before 56k dial-up modems, "Marneus Calgar" was the first name I chose for myself on the first forum (READ: guestbook) that I came across. That name was taken (as much as one could "take" a name on a guestbook), and so I chose Half Brother of Marneus Calgar, later shortened to H.B.M.C.. It's been that way ever since, for literal decades. The original Marneus Calgar remains one of my fav minis GW has ever made. I've never bought a Chief Librarian Tiggy mini past the first one they made, as I see no reason to get another. It's perfect. Sicarius is a punk.

I hate the memeing about them, the whole "Spiritual Liege" nonsense that grew like a cancer on 4chan. I find calling them "Smurfs" irrational (there are tons of other blue chapters). I think that people complaining about them always being front and centre don't understand that from a branding perspective having all your Marine boxes have the same uniform scheme is something that makes the product line cohesive. I don't know if we really needed our Primarch to come back, but I'm glad that he was the first one to come back for the Imperium.

Overall, I love my Ultramarines, and I cannot see that ever going away.

Having said that, one person in this thread made a very interesting post that showed me a perspective that I had never considered:

 TonyH122 wrote:
I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.

This is a fantastic point, and one that I can't find fault in. However, with this thought it mind, it only makes me like them more. He's right, they don't belong in the grimdark, because they're the one's fighting against it. They can't be part of it, because they're forever striving (perhaps fruitlessly) to bring it to an end.

You don't need a 'flaw' to be interesting, you need a good theme. Ultramarines acting as paragons of humanity, forever fighting to bring them back to the light? Yeah. I like that.

Also: Yay. 40,000 posts.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.

Sure you're not talking about the Space Wolves?

 Blackie wrote:
Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look...

And that's the fault of the Ultramarines?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.

Sure you're not talking about the Space Wolves?

The Wolves got it worse, for sure.

you know what's funny? The reason people don't like them or find them bland or whatever is the reason they make for a great poster child. GW has sort of made it so that every new player literally starts off with a marine of some sort before branching off into other chapters or xenos races or what have you.

Like they make it a point to point out that ultramarines are just good overall. They aren't particularly skewed to one side. They aren't really super strong at any one thing. They aren't really standing out among the other chapters in terms of what they can do.

however, they are decent and stable. Because they aren't skewed to one side, it makes a good start to the 40k. From there, as players play and read, they can switch chapters to suite a playstyle or focus down on certain kinds of units.

Now, bland? sure. Not all too interesting? maybe. jack of all trades? i think that's a given. Do I like them? I love blue and gold! Do I care for their lore? sure, it's interesting. Do we need lore on other chapters? YES A LOT MORE!! Does it feel like the Ultramarines chapter is well over the 1000 marines that are supposed to consist of the chapter? based on the number of different units we can buy for SM, I feel like they are closer to 10k than 1k in size if we want to account for all the units and characters fitting in, but idk. 1k marines just doesn't quite feel like there are enough to house any decent amount of any kind of unit, but who am i to question the lore.

I think they are starting to focus a little more on other chapters, but I do think they could work more on fluffing them out or presenting stories. I think where the fluff places them and what they can do in game is pretty generic and good as a first foray into the game.

Dai wrote:
2nd edition Codex Ultramarines was my first ever 40k 'dex. In fairness it was a great book for someone like me with only an inkling of how marines worked. Should have been called Space Marines though, agreed. From memory it did do a pretty good job at deliving into the other five chapters despite the name?

Not at all... all fluff outside of a little ‘Eavy Metal was UM. I’m not sure the Scars, Fists etc even got a home world.

I also like the color blue, Ultramarines were my first army and are for sure my biggest. Originally that was my deciding factor but after reading lore, not having a theme like bikes baked into them or jetpack etc, rebuilding civilizations after destroying them. Stuff like that made me love them more.

Ultramarines are the poster child because the most popular color in the world is blue. I'm willing to bet that if it was red we'd see blood angels everywhere.

I am not partial to blue, and blue-white is my least favorite color combination, followed by blue-gold. I am not afraid to admit I would dislike Ultramarines less if they were not in those colors (or better balanced those colors rather than 90% blue). But I would still dislike them even if they were a different color. But...

 NotSkilledHere wrote:
you know what's funny? The reason people don't like them or find them bland or whatever is the reason they make for a great poster child. GW has sort of made it so that every new player literally starts off with a marine of some sort before branching off into other chapters or xenos races or what have you.

Yeah...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Spoiler:

I wasn't really sure if I should do something special for my 40,000th post (that's this post, BTW). In the end I couldn't decide on what to do, but then I saw this thread, and figured this fits well. It's not something trivial about a new release or preview, or a question of rules or tactics, or a complaint, or taking someone to task for being a moron (it's been a hard 7 days without posting...). No. Instead, this is something to do with my first army:

The Ultramarines.

Now I say first army, but really I started two armies at the same time: Ultramarines and Tyranids. The fact that the two would become so intertwined in the fluff was't really a thing back then, but as you got Marines and Tyranids in the first GW product I ever bought (Tyranid Attack), it can technically count as my first army (and so can 'Nids! ).

So, why Ultramarines? Well, there's a quote in this thread that sums it up quite well:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm also a fan of the color blue.

I like blue. At the time the differences between Space Marine Chapters was really just their colour (and Chapter symbol, I suppose), so your choices were very light blue, red, blue or green (Salamanders were a big thing before Dark Angels were). Never liked red that much, green didn't interest me, the light blue didn't appeal, but the deeper rich blue of the Ultramarines was my thing.

So I went with them. It wasn't a question of fluff or miniatures back then. It was pretty much just down to the colour you like.

I have continued to like the Ultramarines since then, never wavering once. Hell, when my household got the Internet for the first time, way back in the days before 56k dial-up modems, "Marneus Calgar" was the first name I chose for myself on the first forum (READ: guestbook) that I came across. That name was taken (as much as one could "take" a name on a guestbook), and so I chose Half Brother of Marneus Calgar, later shortened to H.B.M.C.. It's been that way ever since, for literal decades. The original Marneus Calgar remains one of my fav minis GW has ever made. I've never bought a Chief Librarian Tiggy mini past the first one they made, as I see no reason to get another. It's perfect. Sicarius is a punk.

I hate the memeing about them, the whole "Spiritual Liege" nonsense that grew like a cancer on 4chan. I find calling them "Smurfs" irrational (there are tons of other blue chapters). I think that people complaining about them always being front and centre don't understand that from a branding perspective having all your Marine boxes have the same uniform scheme is something that makes the product line cohesive. I don't know if we really needed our Primarch to come back, but I'm glad that he was the first one to come back for the Imperium.

Overall, I love my Ultramarines, and I cannot see that ever going away.

Having said that, one person in this thread made a very interesting post that showed me a perspective that I had never considered:

 TonyH122 wrote:
I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.

This is a fantastic point, and one that I can't find fault in. However, with this thought it mind, it only makes me like them more. He's right, they don't belong in the grimdark, because they're the one's fighting against it. They can't be part of it, because they're forever striving (perhaps fruitlessly) to bring it to an end.

You don't need a 'flaw' to be interesting, you need a good theme. Ultramarines acting as paragons of humanity, forever fighting to bring them back to the light? Yeah. I like that.

Also: Yay. 40,000 posts.

Wow, congratulations on 40,000 posts! That is pretty epic sir. And a very insightful post to boot. I never knew the story behind HMBC!