So, how many like Ultramarines?

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**Voss**

Pretty indifferent.

But at least they're not stuck with the trope that 'damage' (particularly mental trauma) is the same thing as 'character.'

**Bitharne**

That blue is similar to how I'm doing my Fists (As Tycho said...yellow is a disability) that my buddy stumbled upon...

You prime with Leadbelcher and point with Contrast. It helps to mitigate the biggest flaw of contrast paints: flat pannels get splotchy really easy. With Metalics under it it's much easier to hide that and you also get a very sexy color. Like a colored metalic vs metal with paint on it.

Makes my First "look" gold but you can still tell it's Yellow. It's super cool.

**SirGunslinger**

Voss wrote:
Pretty indifferent.

But at least they're not stuck with the trope that 'damage' (particularly mental trauma) is the same thing as 'character.'

This. Oh man this. It's so irritating to see 8 foot tall warrior monk perfect soldier types go all emo. The guard has infinitely more reasons, and they still don't, not even the Death Korps. This is the main reason I love the Imperial Fists, despite hating the yellow. They just get on with it.

**insaniak**

I never much cared one way or the other about them to begin with. Didn't dislike them any more than I disliked any other Space Marine Chapter. I enjoyed their portrayal in the Horus Heresy books, though.

**Unknown_Lifeform**

Pretty neutral. I've not really had much contact with their fluff despite playing 40K since 2nd edition. I've never played marines that use the default codex and I tend to avoid black library fiction where the the main protagonists are space marines for precisely the reason people hate on the ultras - it is easy to write marines as boring, overly flanderised and without interesting personalities and put too much focus on bolter p0rn and power fantasy over interesting plot. The exception is the horus heresy series which I've been working through but I haven't got to a book where ultras are the focus. I found the Imperial Fists pretty annoying and douchey, maybe the Ultras will rub me that way too. I did hear about what Ward did to them and was repulsed by the silly extremes of fanboyism it went to, and likewise the ultramarines film, but in both cases my ire was more directed at GW for frequently writing bad fluff that goes overboard on how awesome the protagonists are. It isn't a problem specific to the Ultramarines, even if they are a frequent victim. The concept of Roman marines is nice but I don't think the Ultras actually express it enough in their models.

On the table Ultramarines are actually surprisingly rare in my experience. I hardly ever see them (maybe people avoid them for being too generic?). When I do they usually have terrible "my first army" paint jobs that look like they've been dipped in thick paint (because they are and they have). I'd actually really welcome seeing a well painted Ultramarine force on the table for the sheer novelty of it.

**Tamwulf**

Tycho wrote:
I like them enough that I made an army of 'em back in 8th from the starter box. Still like 'em in 9th.

That's a nice looking blue. What paint did you use for it?

Get out the Airbrush!

Primer stynylrez primer black
Vallejo Air Gunmetal Metallic 71.072
Vallejo Air Chrome 71.064 in zenithal highlights

Brush GW Drakenhof Nightshade in the recesses to create shadows. The model should still be silver when you are done!

Airbrush Tamiya Clear Blue. Very thin coats. Usually 3-4 layers, wait minimum 12 hours between layers because Tamiya clear is an alcohol based acrylic that just takes a really long time to dry.

From there, it was standard brush work for the bolters, eye lenses, pouches, backpack vents. Decals, and then the bases.

The Sergeants had heads painted in Tamiya Clear Red instead of Clear Blue. The Lieutenants- I just could not get the white and red stripe in the metallic red. So it's just white with a red painted stripe.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:@Tamwulf

That blue. You have the Ultra-est marines. Incredible job.

It's funny because I call them Ultra Ultramarines

Stormonu wrote:@Tamwulf - excellent paint job!

Thank you! That was the "Oh crap! I have a tournament this weekend and my Redemptor and Redeemer isn't even close to being finished!" I've since finished them up with more details.

This whole army was painted before contrast paints. As an experiment, I tried to replicate the look and it just never came close to the same shade of blue and glossiness of the armor.

**AngryAngel80**

I don't like or dislike them. Typically I like roman themed stuff for the historical nature but I don't love these guys. They are just too bland for me.

**Tamwulf**

Bitharne wrote:
That blue is similar to how I'm doing my Fists (As Tycho said...yellow is a disability) that my buddy stumbled upon...

You prime with Leadbelcher and point with Contrast. It helps to mitigate the biggest flaw of contrast paints: flat pannels get splotchy really easy. With Metalics under it it's much easier to hide that and you also get a very sexy color. Like a colored metalic vs metal with paint on it.

Makes my First "look" gold but you can still tell it's Yellow. It's super cool.

I didn't use contrast. It's Tamiya Clear Blue over Silver, a candy apple blue

My Ultra Ultra Marines are a gloss blue on the armor. This was a WiP of my Captain in Gravis armor:

**argonak**

I like them as described in codex, although a lot of their fiction isn't of very high quality. They seem to get hit with a lot of bolter porn.

I'm reading the Uriel chronicles right now, and (while surely better than what I could write) it just does not seem to be very good. It leans very heavily onto the behaviors of a modern professional soldier, which seems at odds to the monastic warrior culture the codex presents. While at the same time making odd writing choices and plotline. I'm giving it a chance though, and maybe it will grow on me.

**Tamwulf**

argonak wrote:
I like them as described in codex, although a lot of their fiction isn't of very high quality. They seem to get hit with a lot of bolter porn.

I'm reading the Uriel chronicles right now, and (while surely better than what I could write) it just does not seem to be very good. It leans very heavily onto the behaviors of a modern professional soldier, which seems at odds to the monastic warrior culture the codex presents. While at the same time making odd writing choices and plotline. I'm giving it a chance though, and maybe it will grow on me.

I think the writing for each Chapter is different in 40K. Looking at the Horus Heresy books, the Space Marine Legions were pretty much professional soldiers. It wasn't until the end of Great Crusade and Horus being named Warmaster that the Legions really started to diverge (and much of that had to do with Horus from what I understand). The Emperor made each Legion with certain traits that after he went into seclusion, was pretty much left unchecked except for the Thousand Sons when they went too far and gained his attention for their blasphemy and were censored by the Space Wolves.

Anyways... Ultramarines are more like Roman Soldiers, AKA some of the first Professional Soldiers seen in history. Because of the influence Chaos, all Space Marines are susceptible to its influence. The only defense is prayer and meditation. The result is you get the 40K books about Ultramarines are written as if they were Roman Soldiers. Dark Angels as if they were Medieval Knights, Imperial Fists as Greek Scholar Warriors, Space Wolves as Vikings, etc. etc. And they all take some traits from various social-political-militaristic groups from throughout history. If a book mentions other Space Marine Chapters, they almost always reference them as Warrior Monks unless they are one of the First Founding Chapters or one of the big named ones (Black Templars, Grey Knights, Flesh Terrors, Blood Ravens just to name a few).

Pretty sure the editor of Black Library has a list of the traits each writer is supposed to use when they write about the various Chapters.

**Vankraken**

I don't "hate" them but I really dislike how they hog the narrative. It's really annoying how in a setting that spans countless stars that the same group of ~1000 space marines are involved in a large amount of conflicts. It takes away from fleshing out the other major chapters and/or letting some other made up chapter get an opportunity to do something and have some potentially interesting characters to explore.

I really despise bringing back Gulliman which again feeds into the Ultramarine centric narrative that GW keeps pushing. It feels very on the nose and comes across as more of that Matt Ward gak about Ultras being the shinning example that all chapters should strive to be (and replace all your marines with our +1 Space Marines). Bleh it's agitating just thinking about this stuff.

**Insectum7**

They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.

I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.

Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.

I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.

**AngryAngel80**

Insectum7 wrote:
They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.

I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.

Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.

I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.

As far as I'm concerned, you are the true primarch of the ultramarines. Keep it old school brother.

**Insectum7**

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.

I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.

Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.

I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.

As far as I'm concerned, you are the true primarch of the ultramarines. Keep it old school brother.

Lol. I'll take it. Thanks!

As for old school, my second battle company will be entirely RT era models.

I'm looking forward to starting that project.

**NinthMusketeer**

Vankraken wrote:
I don't "hate" them but I really dislike how they hog the narrative. It's really annoying how in a setting that spans countless stars that the same group of ~1000 space marines are involved in a large amount of conflicts. It takes away from fleshing out the other major chapters and/or letting some other made up chapter get an opportunity to do something and have some potentially interesting characters to explore.

Exactly where I am at too. I just see a ton of missed opportunity to do... literally anyone else.

As for other chapters and their flaws/not-flaw flaws I personally think some depends on the writing quality. Like Blood Angels are specifically going for the archetype of 'vampire struggling with blood addiction' and when they are written that way, as struggling addicts, it comes across much better. Dark Angels the real flaw isn't the fallen, it is how ludicrously extreme they have gotten about pursuing them. All the near-treasonous crap they pull in the name of hunting just one or two heretics has done more damage to the Imperium over the years than the Fallen ever did themselves. When that inherent irony is made evident they come through a lot more like fanatics and a lot less like pissy emo teens. Space Wolves... I don't think the wulfen/curse of the wulfen fluff is written very well. Somewhere between concept and execution it feels like the writers got a bit lost and what we have feels like the sort of empty kinda-means-something blather you put in a high school essay.

It's like, clearly there is a desire to do werewolves, but there also seems to be a desire to not do werewolves, and so we end up with miniatures of not-werewolf werewolves.

**Pariah Press**

I like reading old Rogue Trader era 40K fluff, and there's plenty of that about the Ultra-Marines (as they were called back then). I like all of the fiddly uniform details and and the four different Marneus Calgar models they've released. Most of the novels about them aren't very good, but I'm a devoted Ultramarines player.

**Just Tony**

I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

**Void__Dragon**

They're all right, not my favorite chapter but I like them just fine. Know No Fear is gak though, incredibly overrated book.

the_scotsman wrote:
I appreciate Ultramarines for their honesty. They do not pretend to have a more interesting concept than they do, they are just purely and unapologetically mary sues and make no attempt to disguise that fact.

Every special character they have can be described as "Like Generic HQ, But The Best At That Thing." All their stuff is shiny and gaudy and basic and blatant. They pull that classic literary trick of the mary sue where pretty much any reasonable human being reading about them would find them grating and irritating holier than thou goody two-shoes, and they further antagonize the reader by twisting the rules of the universe such that everyone is constantly praising and adoring them.

Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"

Ultramarines don't do that. That's great. "We're the best, that's our thing. The best at being best. The besterest. Ultra-best."

They may be just the tiniest bit obsolete at this point - Custodes and before them New Lore Grey Knights kind of moved in on the exact same ball game and visually speaking the fact that theyre just one single unblemished shiny color helps to immediately get the point across.

From a gameplay perspective too Custodes and Imperial Knights kind of out-ultramarine the ultramarines. Forcing a marine player to play against Custodes or Knights can help them to gain the valuable perspective of how obnoxious it is to deal with 40k's Constantly Escalating Eliteness problem.

^ This dude is so bitter and angry about Space Marines all the time it's hilarious.

**Blackie**

I hate Ultramarines to the core

.

Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.

It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.

**ZebioLizard2**

Insectum7 wrote:
They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.

I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.

Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.

I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.

Nobody cares about logistics like the Ultramarines! But i'm in the same boat here. I've liked them since second and overall they've been a personal little fan favorite of mine amongst the Space Marines (Though I still lean Chaos

)

**Mr Morden**

I like them - and enjoy their background much much more than I do the modern Space WolfWolf wolfs (despite having a large SW army) and Dark Angels.

**Flipsiders**

Just Tony wrote:
I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else

**BrianDavion**

Blackie wrote:
I hate Ultramarines to the core .

Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.

It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.

**Blackie**

BrianDavion wrote:
Blackie wrote:
I hate Ultramarines to the core .

Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.

It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.

No? I think even SM players are annoyed by the massive amount of releases, books, rules bloat that GW feeds them

.

**Flipsiders**

Blackie wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Blackie wrote:
I hate Ultramarines to the core .

Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.

It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.

No? I think even SM players are annoyed by the massive amount of releases, books, rules bloat that GW feeds them .

"Objective" doesn't mean "widely regarded" or even "universally regarded." It means that something is true according to all observable scientific fact, and anyone who disagrees is factually incorrect. For instance, it is an objective fact that gravity exists, and anyone who says otherwise would be objectively wrong. Something can't be objectively annoying, because whether someone is annoyed or not inherently differs between person to person. If there's one person on the planet who isn't annoyed by Space Marines' releases, power, or playstyle, they can't be objectively annoying, and I think we both know there are some people who fall into that category on this very forum.

You can of course use the word "objectively" as hyperbole, as can you the word "literally," but people get upset when they hear that because they're objectively wrong (and I do mean objectively).

**Da Boss**

I'm ambivalent on Ultramarines. I started in 2e when it was all about the Blood Angels, and I mostly knew about the Ultramarines as being the ones that stuck to the Codex rigidly and had a big cool fight with the Tyranids. And that was pretty good I thought - there has to be a chapter that is sticking to the codex as an example since all the other chapters are super special snowflakes. They are the Cyclops of the Imperium (from X-Men. Same colour scheme too).

I am not a fan of the bright blue and yellow colour scheme but no worries.

Then around 5e they started to change the background and Matt Ward kind of went off on one, went a bit mad I would say. So now they are the ULTRA marines, the best, the absolute most wonderful, special, awesome most awesome goody good guys.

And that is a bit lame? I see that as in universe propaganda, I figure the actual Ultramarines are probably just as weird and brutal as the average chapter.

I like the Heresy presentation, with them trying to figure out a future for themselves where they are not warriors, and building their "perfect society" (of xenophobic weirdos). I like how the Heresy Ultras were actually supposed to be open minded, and how that was twisted afterwards into the Codex, and the stuff with the secondary Imperium is cool.

The modern stuff with their primarch coming back and them being the protagonists in the background? Blech. 40K should not have protagonists, it's a setting not a story, and having these big comic book style characters running around is bad for the setting. So I am not a fan of that at all. But that's not the ultras fault and if someone wants to play the Codex following basic marines because they like that, and they like the blue and gold roman look, then I say go for it, no judgement here.

My own marines are Crimson Fists, because dark red and dark blue looks cooler.

**CorwinB**

I like them from way back, when BA were the face of the WH40K Marines (was 2nd or 3rd edition I think ?). I played Epic back then, not 40K.
I went on a 40K hiatus for a long time, and when I come back they are everywhere.

I still like them, don't mind that their Primarch is back to advance the narrative, but I wish other factions (including other SM Chapters) got more attention.

**Blackie**

Flipsiders wrote:

You can of course use the word "objectively" as hyperbole, as can you the word "literally," but people get upset when they hear that because they're objectively wrong (and I do mean objectively).

Thanks for clarifying

. I actually did know that I was using the word as hyperbole but I didn't realized that people could get upset by it. Here in Italy the litteral translation of the word "objectively" has the same meaning you described but it's also commonly referred to "widely/universally regarded".

Sorry if I have upset someone.

**SamusDrake**

When did Dakka turn into english class?

Nothing against Ultramarines and they have a beginner friendly paint scheme. More interested in other chapters though, such as the Tome Keepers and Blood Ravens.

**Just Tony**

Flipsiders wrote:
Just Tony wrote:
I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...

This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else

As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."

Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...