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Them poster boys. We get blasted with all sorts of novels and named character releases for Ultramarines, but I have always wondered how justified that is. In personal experience, I have never met anyone who actually likes them, let alone plays them. Every Ultramarines named character release is a model that could have been generic or for another chapter, and almost every SM release is a canvas of blue. What's your experience?

I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.

I think they’re a solid 8/10. They’re integral to the imperium and very good all rounders and pretty good on the table but nothing super outstanding.

Dan Abnett rescued them for me in Know No Fear. They're not my favorite, but they're at least capable of being interesting. Even if most of GW's authors haven't figured that out yet.

I technically don't play Ultramarines. I play Fulminators chapter Primaris Marines, but can't be bothered with further cheesing an already powerful codex+supplement by choosing my ow chapter traits. So, 90% of the time I'm playing Ultramarines with the wrong chapter symbol on their left shoulders. I'll run some unique Ultramarines characters, Tigerius and Cassius being my favorites, both often finding their way in to my lists.

I'm a fan of the lore and the themes behind them, avoiding the more wankfest interpretations and chalking it up to BL writers tending to shovel out bolter porn. Ultramarines aren't any more ultra in the novels when you consider how powerful any other random chapter is, when they're in their own book.

I like their style on the board, or at least how I interpret their style in an all-primaris format (ignoring Cassius and the FW Dreads I use). Shoot the Fighty, Fight the Shooty, take up the midfield with aggressors and intercessors, bother the backfield with inceptors, bombard with Redemptor and Deredeo dreadnoughts from relatively further back.

Ultramarines are cool, it's just a bunch of neckbeards are mad that nobody cares about their fanfic/unknown founding/doesn't follow the codex/totally defies the Imperium to save humanity garbage. It's cringe, people.

Dan Abnett rescued them for me in Know No Fear. They're not my favorite, but they're at least capable of being interesting. Even if most of GW's authors haven't figured that out yet.

Couldn't agree more. Up to that point I actually kind of hated them, but now, I find I actually like them and sort of wish my giant chapter-sized collection wasn't painted like Red Hunters.

When I was younger I disliked them because of how ostensibly boring they were in relation to all the other factions. Why would I want these guys who just follow the rules and do the best they can and are essentially a walking, talking GI Joe PSA, when I could have vampires in power armor with a guy literally known as the "Lord of Death". I mean what's cooler? "Marneus Calgar", or, "The Lord of Death"?

But since then, I've come to really appreciate how comparatively "normal" they are compared to the rest of the grimdark. It's kind of nice to have this chapter that isn't brimming with bizzare mutations and always hiding something from someone and are, as much as anyone can be in 40k, "the good guys". Abnett really helped this along with several of his Ultramarines books though.

They don't bother me as the poster boys, there are more interesting chapters out there for sure. Know No Fear definitely improved their image in my eyes, but I think you can thank Abnett for that one.

Lore, novels, etc? Completely neutral. I simply don't care.
Rules? OK.
Models? Especially the current UM specific stuff? Although this doesn't even apply to my own UM army as it's built of exclusively RT era stuff.

I appreciate Ultramarines for their honesty. They do not pretend to have a more interesting concept than they do, they are just purely and unapologetically mary sues and make no attempt to disguise that fact.

Every special character they have can be described as "Like Generic HQ, But The Best At That Thing." All their stuff is shiny and gaudy and basic and blatant. They pull that classic literary trick of the mary sue where pretty much any reasonable human being reading about them would find them grating and irritating holier than thou goody two-shoes, and they further antagonize the reader by twisting the rules of the universe such that everyone is constantly praising and adoring them.

Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"

Ultramarines don't do that. That's great. "We're the best, that's our thing. The best at being best. The besterest. Ultra-best."

They may be just the tiniest bit obsolete at this point - Custodes and before them New Lore Grey Knights kind of moved in on the exact same ball game and visually speaking the fact that theyre just one single unblemished shiny color helps to immediately get the point across.

From a gameplay perspective too Custodes and Imperial Knights kind of out-ultramarine the ultramarines. Forcing a marine player to play against Custodes or Knights can help them to gain the valuable perspective of how obnoxious it is to deal with 40k's Constantly Escalating Eliteness problem.

Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"

So true!

Lot of interesting points, keep it up!

I went through all possible choices in the poll and from 2-5 I thought "Ah, yeah that fits"

So, they're of course the most boring faction in all of 40K because they're simply the generic faction. If you paint them just like the picture on the box says you'll have the most boring army in the game without any speciality - and that can probably be appealing if you do already have 3 other, more interesting armies.

However, if I'd do Ultramarines I'd put every roman insignia, tabards and crest on them I can find and would totally flanderize them like no tomorrow, making them awesome Graeco-Roman legion in space - and that's what Ultramarines can do, too.
So... if you take them right from the box they're probably my least favorite SM faction next to Imperial Fists, which are just as boring but with an even worse color scheme and fewer special characters. However, they do have potential if you're a competent hobbyist. I don't see that potential in Imperial Fists, to be honest. You can probably do a yellow that's not so shiny and give them some heavy weathering, but they'll still be "the other generic SM faction".

Tycho wrote:

Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"

So true!

Fun minigame: Try to come up with a space marine chapter flaw that isn't

1) totally cosmetic and a distinction that basically just amounts to 'paint them slightly different'

or

2) something that is just in and of itself a common power fantasy trope.

Dark Angels: Their flaw is that they have to be super secret agents and if anyone finds out their deep dark secrets they have to kill them
Blood Angels: Their flaw is that they turn into badass totally unstoppable crazy I'm The Joker Baby psycho murderers because they just really want dat revenge
Space Wolves: They turn into weird furry art versions of werewolves doing goofy ballerina/ninja poses OK granted this is a real downside guys. I'll give you that one, that is 100% a fate worse than death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I went through all possible choices in the poll and from 2-5 I thought "Ah, yeah that fits"

So, they're of course the most boring faction in all of 40K because they're simply the generic faction. If you paint them just like the picture on the box says you'll have the most boring army in the game without any speciality - and that can probably be appealing if you do already have 3 other, more interesting armies.

However, if I'd do Ultramarines I'd put every roman insignia, tabards and crest on them I can find and would totally flanderize them like no tomorrow, making them awesome Graeco-Roman legion in space - and that's what Ultramarines can do, too.
So... if you take them right from the box they're probably my least favorite SM faction next to Imperial Fists, which are just as boring but with an even worse color scheme and fewer special characters. However, they do have potential if you're a competent hobbyist. I don't see that potential in Imperial Fists, to be honest. You can probably do a yellow that's not so shiny and give them some heavy weathering, but they'll still be "the other generic SM faction".

^imperial fists do have a definitive flaw in that they are painted yellow.

White scars and imperial fists players, you're off the hook.

 Galas wrote:
I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.

Dude, same.

Very little about the Ultramarine's lore is particularly interesting to me, and I find most of the writing done on them in the last 15 years or so has been really poorly handled, but their actual art and imagery and visuals work really well for the setting as a whole.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.

Dude, same.

Very little about the Ultramarine's lore is particularly interesting to me, and I find most of the writing done on them in the last 15 years or so has been really poorly handled, but their actual art and imagery and visuals work really well for the setting as a whole.

Meh. They're a little clean. Give me templars or dark angels visually.

 Galas wrote:
I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.

This is where I am. Pretty neutral, but got damn if I don't enjoy a good crested helmet. I'm also a fan of the color blue. That's about it.

Fun minigame: Try to come up with a space marine chapter flaw that isn't

1) totally cosmetic and a distinction that basically just amounts to 'paint them slightly different'

or

2) something that is just in and of itself a common power fantasy trope.

Dark Angels: Their flaw is that they have to be super secret agents and if anyone finds out their deep dark secrets they have to kill them
Blood Angels: Their flaw is that they turn into badass totally unstoppable crazy I'm The Joker Baby psycho murderers because they just really want dat revenge
Space Wolves: They turn into weird furry art versions of werewolves doing goofy ballerina/ninja poses OK granted this is a real downside guys. I'll give you that one, that is 100% a fate worse than death.

What's that chapter with the bone spikes growing out of their elbows? That would count right? lol

As for the chapters you listed, my feelings on them have changed over the years. Where they would have been my favorites at one time, it is now more like:

Dark Angels: Stay away from me man. I have feelings.
Blood Angels: Stay away from me man. You can't even comprehend the DEPTHS of my feelings.
Space Wolves: Let's all drink our feelings!
Ultramarines: This war doesn't care about your feelings. Now quit "emoing" and get up and help us win it!

Also yes - Fists players get a pass as being "yellow" is perhaps the greatest flaw of all ...

They're fine! thought when i first started playing many a year ago they were my arch enemies because the only other person i knew who played the game played them... and the rivalry lingers.

Also i like salamanders. more.

I like them enough that I made an army of 'em back in 8th from the starter box. Still like 'em in 9th.

I like them enough that I made an army of 'em back in 8th from the starter box. Still like 'em in 9th.

That's a nice looking blue. What paint did you use for it?

When I started they weren't even a first founding chapter & still feel that way to this day!!!!!!

I like them. They got memed on a lot and a lot of people really did not like their matt ward fluff back in 5th ed, which was bad, but got a bit blown out of proportion over the years and sort of took on a life of its own.

I like that they are clearly modeled after the roman legions. I like that they are a somewhat reasonable chapter that managed to create and a manage a prosperous empire with ultramar. It's a nice contrast to the savage space wolves, the brooding dark angels and the noble but bloodthirsty blood angels. They are efficient, loyal and effective and its no wonder that they are the poster boys for space marines.
Guilliman also got memed on a lot, but I think they actually managed to write him as an interesting character who is thrust into a terribly broken, stupid imperium and is trying to pick up the pieces. He's still a xenophobic autocrat, but there is worse stuff in the imperium.

I'm not that fond of the blue color scheme though.

I like 'em.

Blue and gold is a solid colour scheme, and the insignia is comparatively easy to paint. They're open to just about any interpretation of what a Space Marine should look like as well - you can have the very ornate and detailed greco-roman aesthetic, you can have the quite minimalist "flat armour panels" look, or they can fit into the "spec-ops pouches and stealth" idea - they cover every base without specialising, and that's nice for allowing people to collect whatever takes their fancy.

A lot of the more recent Ultramarine writing (Know No Fear/Knights of Macragge) is pretty damn nice, and Guilliman's one of my favourite Primarchs for being just generally straight-laced, but not a dick about it. The Ward stuff is mostly exaggeration anyway.

But yeah, Ultras were my first Chapter, and while I debated long and hard about it, I settled on Ultras for 30k as well - I just liked my boys in blue too much.

UM? Most bland faction in the game. And no, being Tyranids hunters isn't good enough. They are the Orlocks of 40K and that's not a compliment.

The only chapter which is worse are the Space Wolves. Going all crazy about wolves, including riding them and having werewolves in the ranks ruined them. Ah, and don't forget Santa Sled.

I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.

I like Ultramarines. However, I do think Games Workshop should really figure out a better solution for Ultramarins being the box art faction and including fluff campaigns in many of their boxed sets featuring them. I mean the Ultramarines have been involved with the events of Dark Imperium, Vigilius, Shadowspear (which I think was still the Vigilus System) and now the Pariah Crusade (Indomitus campaign). Which could still work if it were more than just the Second Company doing all this. Even with timey-wimey Warp shenanigans, the Ultramarines, particularly the 2nd Company, are running out of margins to fit more adventures in via GW. Let alone any player that also wants to play the Ultramarines 2nd Company.


Hey, Games Workshop. Stop hogging the Ultramarines 2nd Company. Let some of the players that also have them get in some stories with them. The galaxy is a big place and there are lots of other chapters many of which I have seen you have in your studio. Maybe let them some of them be the space marines in those stories. They still be blue if that's a concern. What have the Emperor's Hands been up to? (not the ones on the Golden Throne, they have done nothin' for a good long while) The Star Dragons? Fulminators? Dark Hunters?

I have a huge soft spot for them as I collected a big force of them in 2nd Ed (back when it was blue and yellow, none of this blue and gold nonsense). I loved the Tyranids storylines of those days but I’m not too fussed on Reboot Guilleman and haven’t read up on what they’re up to now, I’ve moved on to Blood Angels for my marine fix.

@Tamwulf

That blue. You have the Ultra-est marines. Incredible job.

I used to like them quite a bit prior to the return of Guilliman. I'm neutral about them these days and have become more interested in Dark Angels.

@Tamwulf - excellent paint job!