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Would you play with a known scalper?
Yes, I'd play games with them. Behavior outside the gaming room doesn't factor into it.
No, I would refuse. Scalpers should not feel welcome in the gaming community.
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Andykp wrote:
I buy big box sets like the Christmas army boxes and keep bits and sell the loss. Rarely make money on them, often just break even but get stuff I want. I have done it with limited run boxes but only when I want bits of it. Never Buy a box to sell that I don’t want at all. Does that make me a bad person. I get a kit or two I want, everyone else gets market price other kits. With the marine Xmas a while ago I kept the repulsor and sold the marines. They sold for less than a new box of them. I got a repulsor free but had to list and post all the other stuff. Very rare you get something that is genuinely limited even rarer that you should sell stuff for more than they are worth. Seems to be an odd thing to exclude someone for. As someone with limited funds it makes the hobby affordable.

I make more money buying limited models and selling them painted. That’s where the profit is. For example, selling ghaz on unbuilt the going rate was around £45. I sold mine painted for £125.


To put it into perspective, this is a scalper; they walk into a shop and buy up all the SNES minis they have in stock for £70 each and then re-sells them on Ebay for £200 each...

"I'll take all of them"

...there are a lot of downsides for the retailer if they let this happen and it comes in the form of complaints that take up time( "why didn't you order in enough stock?" ) and sometimes goodwill has to be dished out, and loss of sales on other lines; "might as well pick up bread & milk while I'm here." Applying this to a Warhammer store - even the online store - you might add a White Dwarf or a painting handle to your purchase of Dominion. If a scalper walked in and purchased all 10 copies of Dominion in stock then that store loses out on those additional potential sales and are going to face a backlash from the other 9 customers who are genuinely there for a single copy or two.

My friend, in contrast you are merely selling on what you don't want from a kit and making a bit of money in the process. In a way you are are doing others a service...

Last year I purchased a copy of Blackstone Fortress from Wayland games, but it was missing the exploration deck. Dealing with the non-GW retailer was going to be nothing but hassle, but because someone was selling off contents of their copy of BSF on EBay, I was able to purchase a replacement deck for £3 which was worth it for the time and hassle it saved me in dealing with either Wayland or GW, which might have meant sending my copy back even though I'd already assembled the models...

As for Ghaz you have added value to that model in the form of a service, as you're including not only materials but also time and effort.

In a nutshell, I'd be happy to have a game with you!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut






I honestly don't care because these scalpers are only the tiniest part of the market. If it's about being able to get things, I think that people getting two boxes just for themselves already is more of a problem.

But what really is the issue of course is GW's gross underproduction and poor communications. I was for instance going to get the Cursed City box at some point, which would have been my first GW purchase in over a year. It however wasn't available when I looked for it, so that was a bit of a shame.

   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




UK

I don’t approve of scalping, but so long as they don’t play the game like a dick then I’d play them.


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Scalping is just raw capitalism. You buy low, sell high. Examples everywhere. E.g.

I saw a kickstarter the other day for a lightbox. Raised some thousands of pounds. Except the product they're selling is one already available in bulk from China, they just took some swish photos of it, and marked up the price to quadruple what it costs on Amazon. The people who bought it will get exactly what they paid for. They're just paying more because they couldn't be bothered to do the five minutes of googling to realise they could buy it already elsewhere for less.

I had a friend who used to jump on a plane to Japan. Brought back loads of anime stuff in bulging suitcases, set up a table at London Expo. Sold it all for six times what they paid for it.

There's a shop on a nearby high street. The lady wanders around antique shops, craft fairs, and the internet to buy the kind of tut which is attractive to upper-middle class ladies with money and not too many worries (decorations made from driftwood, brass candle holders, throw cushions with sequin designs, etc). She buys it, then takes it back to her shop and quadruples the price.

My mother sells on ebay. She has a list of brands she knows are good (Joules, FatFace, etc), and waits until they have their seasonal clearing out sale on their own sites or Amazon. She then nabs a few hundred pounds of merchandise at a low price. Then relists on ebay at the original price two weeks later, because somebody will pay that for it at some point.


All these people are making a buck. None of them are 'adding value' beyond rounding up the stock and putting it somewhere more visible. It's not morally reprehensible, it's just capitalism. I'm here to play games with people, not sieve through their lives looking for a reason to be offended by their existence. Anyone who'd put it in the same automatic 'do not interact with because they disgust me' category as scamming, murder, far right extremism and so on? I'd find them far more intolerable to play against, because they'd be a morally self-righteous arsehole and probably end up judging me for something equally fatuous.


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

If playing against him is fun why not? To be honest I've never been interested in pre orders, starters, limited boxes, etc... so I really don't give a damn about scalpers .


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

 Ketara wrote:
None of them are 'adding value' beyond rounding up the stock and putting it somewhere more visible.

I think this is fundamentally different to scalping, and I would say they are adding a value, more convenient/more visible is a value. With the possible exception of that Kickstarter, but those sorts of sites are full of predators.
Scalpers on the other hand are different. They're rounding up the stock and putting it somewhere less visible.
I do think scalping is a purely parasitic endeavour.
One can argue capitalism is built around the concept of parasitic value, but at least lube up before you feth me, y'know?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 11:33:33


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 kirotheavenger wrote:

I think this is fundamentally different to scalping, and I would say they are adding a value, more convenient/more visible is a value.


Are they? My mother is literally taking product off the manufacturer's website at a cheaper price, then reselling it elsewhere for higher that is actually probably less visible. If she didn't buy it, theoretically, someone else who wanted it could have bought from the manufacturer's website during the sale for less money. Likewise, the Tut lady is buying crap out of a shop further down the road or off Amazon (both equally visible to her own shopfront). And so on.

I could easily pull out another dozen day to day examples. Have you ever heard of dropshipping? It;s an entire industry designed to list stuff on sale elsewhere in China, and then just redirect the order for a profit. What we're terming 'scalping' is just trying to turn a buck by moving goods from A to B and taking a cut. The trick is just to identify the market which gives maximum return/profitability for minimum effort.

At the end of the day, this is just basic capitalism. Someone is buying goods from someone else for the desired asking price. Then they're moving the good to another location/market, and increasing the price. They're not altering the product, they're not adding value, they're not manufacturing themselves, they're not incorporating it into another product. Just moving from A to B and gaining £££. And that's raw capitalism in a nutshell, no different to when your corner shop buys a box of 20 chocolate bars for £3.00 and then resells them for £0.60 each.

I get it can annoy people who are paying more money or not prepared to invest the same effort into acquiring the goods, but at the end of the day, nothing is stopping them playing the same game or buying from the same place. If your average reseller is using bots, you can use bots too. If your reseller is waiting for a sale, you can wait for a sale too. If the reseller is redirecting stuff from other websites, you can buy from those other websites. If your 'scalper' drives to an event to buy limited edition models, you can go there as well.

None of this is some great heinous moral crime equivalent to scamming or violence.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 12:43:13



 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Your mother is picking up time limited items and selling them out of that time window.
Scalpers differ on this point because scalpers help to impose that scarcity on a quantity-limited product. I've assumed there's plenty of clothes available in your mother's sales. If there's not and things are regularly selling out, imo she's scalping then.

The tut lady is taking those items and centralising them at a location known to middle-aged, upper-class, white women.

I don't disagree that this is capitalism and arguably a bad thing. But they are at least providing some benefit. Hence my comment about lube. Scalpers are purely parasitic and provide no benefit to a customer, hence the negative view of them.
I get that scalping is 100% legal and possible for anyone to do.
But I'm talking about moral differences. I get that people's morals can vary wildly, particularly on matters of personal property and "fair".

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 12:49:50


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Scalpers attempt to take advantage of scarcity or create scarcity of a product and from that position charge a mark up purely to provide that same product.

They aren't attempting to reach new markets or to redistribute goods to a wider market. They aren't buying when products are on discount and then upselling at normal market rates.
They aren't taking things that are sold in one market and not another and then providing them to the new market.



They are purely leaching the same market; just inflating the cost for no net gain.


Consumerism is about profiting, however it has its limit points otherwise everyone would be scalping everything and the system would break down.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Nothing in Ketara's examples seem to lake into account of the limited availability of the items.

Reselling for convenience is one thing. Wiping out the stock to create a short-term monopoly is not the same at all.
We shouldn't have to resort to deploying bots to grab standard items. This is not war, it is commerce. We should not need to use weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:02:30


4000 pts - 4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 kirotheavenger wrote:
Your mother is picking up time limited items and selling them out of that time window.
Scalpers differ on this point because scalpers help to impose that scarcity on a quantity-limited product. I've assumed there's plenty of clothes available in your mother's sales. If there's not and things are regularly selling out, imo she's scalping then.


The way season stuff works is that the shops don't want to hold onto stock past a certain point because the turnover lowers (no-one wants swimsuits in winter) or to make room for new designs (fashion always changes). So they sell up all remaining stock in a sale. So the items ARE limited quantity, because the original shop won't be selling them past that point. Much like a limited edition warhammer item. If you don't grab it then, it isn't around in future, and there's a limited amount left in the manufacturer's warehouse.

Last Christmas, I was looking for an item for my partner's mother as a present. I settled on slippers, and found that the Joules brand a few years ago had sold a set with cute kittens on. Of course, Joules no longer sells them. But someone like my mother who clearly picks up 'going out of stock' items (they had hundreds of similar items), had placed a pair on ebay for twenty quid. I bought them, and my partner's mother was very happy with them.

According to the 'feth the scalper logic', the reseller should never have bought them to resell them to me. After all, they picked up a time/quantity limited item (depriving anyone else scouring the Joules sale section from a bargain), and then sold it for probably something like 60% profit. Therefore a great moral crime has occurred, right? In reality, the manufacturer got rid of their stock and is happy. The reseller invested their capital for two years and got a return (making them happy). I got to buy a good Christmas present at a price I was willing to pay, so I'm happy. And, best of all, my partner's mother ADORED the slippers!

I could replace every part of that story with a GW Ltd edition model for my friend easily.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
Scalpers attempt to take advantage of scarcity or create scarcity of a product and from that position charge a mark up purely to provide that same product.

They aren't attempting to reach new markets or to redistribute goods to a wider market. They aren't buying when products are on discount and then upselling at normal market rates.
They aren't taking things that are sold in one market and not another and then providing them to the new market.

They are purely leaching the same market; just inflating the cost for no net gain.

Consumerism is about profiting, however it has its limit points otherwise everyone would be scalping everything and the system would break down.


The limit point is what people are willing to pay. The reseller is taking a commercial risk by investing their capital. If nobody buys it at their inflated price point, they either lower the price or don't sell. And if they lower it to a point people are willing to buy at, then what's the problem? These aren't essential items, nobody died of thirst because they had to convert an Ork Warboss instead of buying the supah sikrit ltd edition version sold only in two shops for five minutes when the moon was in an eclipse. It's just buying and reselling, and no more morally intolerable than the person who sold me the slippers I wanted.

The reason people hate this is because there's a pile of stuff and they know it sells at a cheaper price. So when they're unable to get it at that price, whether it's because bots swallowed it all, because they couldn't be bothered to get out of bed for an event, or whatever; they resent paying more to someone who was more organised in their approach. They wanted to pay the cheaper price, and now they can't. So they hate the person who got there first because it's 'unfair' that they either have to pay more or up their game.

But you know, plot twist, life is unfair. I wanted fizzy water from the supermarket the other day, and they were sold out even though it was like 11AM. Life goes on. I don't sit around swearing eternal vengeance and to never play games with the people who got there first. Even though their barbecue probably ended up being better than mine.

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:16:40



 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I think there's a distinct difference between buying up time limited items and quantity limited items.

When GW does a limited edition sale, there are people who want them who can't get them because there weren't enough to go around.
Whereas with time-limited items anyone that wants one can get one, they just have to be there.
Were there significant numbers of people who wanted kitten slippers at the time, but left the store empty handed? If not that's not scalping.

This is why I don't think buying multiple event-figures at GamesDay or GamesCon or whatever else and selling them is scalping; because there's enough to go round for people at the convention and they're selling to people that couldn't/didn't attend.

If there were people leaving shops unable to buy limited edition kitten slippers, all you're doing is convincing us your mother is a scalper.

Overread and Skinnereal have explained things perhaps better than I have already.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:20:25


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

There are variations and differences and perhaps people like your mother would get classed as scalpers under anti-scalping measures and she'd have to adapt to buying the stock direct off the shop at "end of line" moments (ergo when the stuff comes off the shelves and is boxed up etc....).


The key is that yes its commerce, but that the system has to have limit points on it. Commerce has to have some level of control and regulation to prevent abuse. We have things like that all the time from rules that attempt to prevent a single supermarket driving all the others out of business (we've rules on percentage of market dominance); through to measures to try and ensure fair pricing on essential goods and services. There's even rules on competition and collusion - its illegal for supermarkets to all agree to pay less for a product and charge more. Sure they do it and if they get caught they get finned.


The thing is without some level of outside control, rampant "pure" consumerism/trade will break things.

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 kirotheavenger wrote:

If there were people leaving shops unable to buy limited edition kitten slippers, all you're doing is convincing us your mother is a scalper.


Read closer. I didn't buy the slippers from my mother. I bought them off someone who does the same thing as her. And yes, 'end of the line' sales mean that if you get there and the shop has sold out, there are no more.

But I repeat, if I'm happy, the slipper recipient is happy, the manufacturer is happy, and the reseller is happy; where's the crime? Am I supposed to feel sympathy for abstract customers who would have bought those slippers instead of the reseller/me two years before at a lower price?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:27:10



 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

You're just arguing how not-applicable to this discussion those slippers are then.

I wanted a Cursed City. I didn't get one, but the guy in line ahead of me got three. He's happy to sell at double RRP though.
That's scalping.

Whatever else you want to talk about, unless it's that, it's not scalping.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Overread wrote:

The key is that yes its commerce, but that the system has to have limit points on it. Commerce has to have some level of control and regulation to prevent abuse. We have things like that all the time from rules that attempt to prevent a single supermarket driving all the others out of business (we've rules on percentage of market dominance); through to measures to try and ensure fair pricing on essential goods and services. There's even rules on competition and collusion - its illegal for supermarkets to all agree to pay less for a product and charge more. Sure they do it and if they get caught they get finned.

The thing is without some level of outside control, rampant "pure" consumerism/trade will break things.


By all means, but joint corporate oligopoly of critical goods (to seize the sorts of examples those laws were written for) is nothing to do with 'buy some limited edition plastic figurines and sell them on ebay'. If you skim the page above, you'll find half a dozen examples of people saying that one example or another I provided doesn't qualify as the same thing for some hair-splitting reason or another. But likewise, neither do the sorts of things you're describing, and by a considerably greater mile.

There's rampant capitalism where companies pollute towns, rig currency, abuse workers, charge a fortune for essential goods, and so on. And then there's buying some trainers/wargaming models/special pokemon cards and selling them on for double what you paid because you think you can turn a buck.


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Polonius wrote:
Scalping is also at worst a selfish act, not really morally reprehensible.
I mean it depends on the nature of the scalping. At the start of the pandemic I remember a photo taken of a guy who was scalping all of the child cough medicine at the local supermarket.

Everyone has their own threshold on where things go from reasonable self-interest to reprehensible a-hole.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 kirotheavenger wrote:
You're just arguing how not-applicable to this discussion those slippers are then.

I wanted a Cursed City. I didn't get one, but the guy in line ahead of me got three. He's happy to sell at double RRP though.
That's scalping.

Whatever else you want to talk about, unless it's that, it's not scalping.


Now imagine someone wants Cursed City in six months, sees the 'scalpers' listing, and happily pays it. Because he wants the product and is happy with the price.

He's happy. The reseller is happy. Games Workshop is happy. The only one with an axe to grind is you, because you don't want to spend that much money. But given you're not involved in any of it, what's it got to do with you? You're literally conjuring up a grudge because you didn't get the exact sculpt of plastic toys you wanted at the price you wanted.


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 BuFFo wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
I ask because there's some guy in my local Warhammer community who proudly admits to being a scalper, and I swore to myself that I would never play a 40k game with him (unless a tournament pits me against him). But I wonder if this sentiment is actually prevalent, or if some players leave their feelings on such things at the door when it comes to actual gaming.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every local gaming community should come together to ostracize scalpers.


I'm a scalper. Everyone here is. Everyone here has bought something, then at some point, sold it for profit. Nothing immoral about that.

If you ostracize people who sell their property, there will be no one around.


....You understand that isn't the definition of "scalping" correct?

Buying a two-army box and selling the other half of the box individually for more than half the price of the box also isn't scalping.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

You can just say you personally don't care.
I find your attempts to convince us that doubling the cost of scarcity they helped to create doesn't matter ridiculous and slightly insulting.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







A.T. wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
Scalping is also at worst a selfish act, not really morally reprehensible.
I mean it depends on the nature of the scalping. At the start of the pandemic I remember a photo taken of a guy who was scalping all of the child cough medicine at the local supermarket.

Everyone has their own threshold on where things go from reasonable self-interest to reprehensible a-hole.


That's a really good example of where the state has to step in. Monopoly of essential products. Under most arguments made above though, it wouldn't count because more of it would end up restocked in the shop later on (and it's therefore not 'quantity-limited). Which highlights how absurd the focus on that aspect is.

Monopoly/Oligopoly and price gouging over essential products is harmful because people have no choice but to pay it. You have them in a corner, and they need it to survive and thrive. So the State, quite rightly, regulates those things when necessary. Electricity, food, water, road networks, and so on. Frankly, the American healthcare system is a perfect example of a system where people get gouged for utterly essential healthcare products and services, even though they're not 'quantity-limited'.

The people who gouge over things like that are scum, I think we can all agree. But it's not the same thing as flipping a dozen copies of Cursed City, and to draw any form of equivalence between the two and start refusing to interact with people who do it (the original premise under discussion) is just ludicrous hyperbole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
You can just say you personally don't care.
I find your attempts to convince us that doubling the cost of scarcity they helped to create doesn't matter ridiculous and slightly insulting.


It doesn't matter. You're not starving, you can buy other models to play the game with, and everyone else in the commercial chain was willing to freely interact to reach their own mutually satisfactory conclusions. There are so many unfair things in the world, that if this is the thing you'd carry a permanent grudge against other people for, you must have a remarkably blessed life. I understand that it's frustating/irritating (nothing wrong with being hacked off about not being able to get what you want), but doing as the original premise of this thread requires, and socially ostracising people over it?

More generally speaking, someone saying 'I refuse to play wargames against you because people like you sometimes make me unable to get the plastic toy soldier I want!' is just such a bizare OTT stance to take that I have trouble comprehending it. I think that's why people want to depict 'scalping' over toy soldiers as some sort of moral deficiency - because it legitimises what is otherwise an extreme over-reaction.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:55:01



 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ketara wrote:
That's a really good example of where the state has to step in. Monopoly of essential products. Under most arguments made above though, it wouldn't count because more of it would end up restocked in the shop later on (and it's therefore not 'quantity-limited). Which highlights how absurd the focus on that aspect is.
I chose it in part as it slips more into the the quantity limited aspect - if you get sick it doesn't do you any good to put the medicine on your reminder list for next months shop.


 Ketara wrote:
The people who gouge over things like that are scum, I think we can all agree. But it's not the same thing as flipping a dozen copies of Cursed City, and to draw any form of equivalence between the two and start refusing to interact with people who do it (the original premise under discussion) is just ludicrous hyperbole.
I don't know. If there was a game I and my friends were looking forward to playing, only to find that we could not because some guy had bought them all and was offering to sell them to us at a price we didn't want to pay ... i'd probably turn down his request for a game of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:56:18


 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 Ketara wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
You're just arguing how not-applicable to this discussion those slippers are then.

I wanted a Cursed City. I didn't get one, but the guy in line ahead of me got three. He's happy to sell at double RRP though.
That's scalping.

Whatever else you want to talk about, unless it's that, it's not scalping.


Now imagine someone wants Cursed City in six months, sees the 'scalpers' listing, and happily pays it. Because he wants the product and is happy with the price.

He's happy. The reseller is happy. Games Workshop is happy. The only one with an axe to grind is you, because you don't want to spend that much money. But given you're not involved in any of it, what's it got to do with you? You're literally conjuring up a grudge because you didn't get the exact sculpt of plastic toys you wanted at the price you wanted.
Scalpers aren't going to sit on a box for six months, they want - need - to flip them quickly. That's what makes them the profit.

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Lammia wrote:
Scalpers aren't going to sit on a box for six months, they want - need - to flip them quickly. That's what makes them the profit.


Not true. You ever seen goldfishblue on ebay? He combs the auctions and other places for limited edition and out of production warhammer. Grabs it low, buys it for an insane markup and sits on it until he gets it. We're talking fifty quid or the like for a Tallarn Heavy weapons team. Ridiculously over-priced. He's a scalper, by any reasonable definition.

I could sit around and fume until steam comes out my ears, because his habits stop me being able to pick up that kind of stuff at a lower price on ebay (he buys up what becomes available, after all, and bids on even what he doesn't win). But whilst I'll freely admit it irritates the hell out of me seeing stuff at that kind of price and knowing he's probably driving up prices all over the shop; I don't think he's a bad person for it. He's just a bloke trying to turn a buck and make a living.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 14:07:45



 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Ketara wrote:


It doesn't matter. You're not starving, you can buy other models to play the game with, and everyone else in the commercial chain was willing to freely interact to reach their own mutually satisfactory conclusions. There are so many unfair things in the world, that if this is the thing you'd carry a permanent grudge against other people for, you must have a remarkably blessed life. I understand that it's frustating/irritating (nothing wrong with being hacked off about not being able to get what you want), but doing as the original premise of this thread requires, and socially ostracising people over it?

More generally speaking, someone saying 'I refuse to play wargames against you because people like you sometimes make me unable to get the plastic toy soldier I want!' is just such a bizare OTT stance to take that I have trouble comprehending it. I think that's why people want to depict 'scalping' over toy soldiers as some sort of moral deficiency - because it legitimises what is otherwise an extreme over-reaction.


People tend to care more about things that personally affect them, more news at 11.

I guess all I can say is get over it? People are going to not like you sometimes, and "I'm going to play a wargame with you for 3+ hours" is a bar high enough that I want to generally like the person I'm going to be spending that time with.

If you cut in front of me in line every time I go to purchase something in the game store, I'd probably also refuse to play with you. Or if you just smell bad. Why is not playing a game with someone "An extreme over-reaction" in your mind? To me it's extremely minor, in terms of choosing not to partake in an extremely optional leisure activity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ketara wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Scalpers aren't going to sit on a box for six months, they want - need - to flip them quickly. That's what makes them the profit.


Not true. You ever seen goldfishblue on ebay? He combs the auctions and other places for limited edition and out of production warhammer. Grabs it low, buys it for an insane markup and sits on it until he gets it. We're talking fifty quid or the like for a Tallarn Heavy weapons team. Ridiculously over-priced. He's a scalper, by any reasonable definition.

I could sit around and fume until steam comes out my ears, because his habits stop me being able to pick up that kind of stuff at a lower price on ebay (he buys up what becomes available, after all, and bids on even what he doesn't win). But whilst I'll freely admit it irritates the hell out of me seeing stuff at that kind of price and knowing he's probably driving up prices all over the shop; I don't think he's a bad person for it. He's just a bloke trying to turn a buck and make a living.


I tend to think basically anybody who makes their living purely by making life worse for people, even in a small and petty way, is at least slightly a scumbag.

There's obviously degrees of scumbag, and I don't think someone who's a model scalper is more of a scumbag than....say....any executive at any company big enough to have executives, but I'm still not going to like them as much as I like any person who actually contributes in some meaningful way to society to earn their bread. They're basically just the dude from Toy Story 2. Not someone I hate, not someone I actively fume about, but do I want to spend multiple hours of my life interacting with the Toy Story 2 guy? no, not really tbh.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 14:42:29


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 the_scotsman wrote:
Why is not playing a game with someone "An extreme over-reaction" in your mind?
I think you may have muddled my posts with someone elses.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
would folk who wouldn't play a scalper play at a store that sells some second hand stuff a higher than the original retail price?

and if you would how abo if he second hand stuff is recent as opposed to ancient (eg a LE or something only Just out of production


A store provides me a lot more than a random dude who ebays stuff from his basement.

A store is the reason I get to have a table, a shelf to store my terrain, a place for me to hang out and play the actual game, and they pay rent/taxes/utilities/employees to stand at the desk to provide me that space.

They're completely within their rights to add a percentage to the products that they sell to offset those costs.

Scalping is, by definition, providing zero value to me as compared to if I were able to purchase the product from the original producing company.

if something is sold as a bundle, and I only want a part of that bundle, you are providing a service to me if you buy that bundle and separate out the parts so that I can purchase only the part that I want, so I'm perfectly happy to pay you a higher price for that product.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

The only way scalping works is if the fair market value for an item is higher than sale price of the item. Which means that the scalper actually performs an essential function: allowing the laws of supply and demand to balance out. It replaces the ability to camp out, or drive to multiple stores, or attend a specific event, or even just get lucky, with the ability to simply pay cash for an item.

If the fair market price for Cursed City was $250, then selling it at $200 is a great deal. And selling it at that price, with no caps, and with limited stock, means that it becomes trivial to make some money off of it.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 the_scotsman wrote:

I guess all I can say is get over it?

...errr...exactly! Albeit from the other direction I think?

People are going to not like you sometimes, and "I'm going to play a wargame with you for 3+ hours" is a bar high enough that I want to generally like the person I'm going to be spending that time with.

I play wargames to play wargames. Sometimes I like the person and play them again. Sometimes I like them a lot and they become a friend. Sometimes I don't like them for a reason (like being smelly, as you say) and don't play them again. But in none of those calculations falls 'How do you make a living' unless it's something really reprehensible. Car salespeople use slimy tactics. Bank managers too. As you say, any company large enough to have executives. I don't discover that and then refuse to play them.

At the end of the day, if I get on with someone, enjoy their personal company, and have good games with them; I'm not going to suddenly refuse to play them again and blacklist them as a terrible person because they flip some plastic soldiers.It's not an active enough moral concern for me that it overwrites my basic interpersonal dynamics (aka, do I like you and being around you). I've known people go vegan and start pulling that sort of gak ('You're such a terrible person to be a meateater, I couldn't possibly be around you anymore'). It's just so OTT and self-righteous. For something to elicit that sort of moral reaction on my part and completely wipe away the interpersonal dynamic, there needs to be something majorly serious (likes torturing animals, Nazism, scalps for essential goods, whatever).

Otherwise you end up with people refusing to talk to each other because one bought from Primark whilst the other one considers it unethical, or because someone likes Frankie Boyle, or something. And yes, I've seen people fall out over those two things.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 15:10:14



 
   
Made in gb
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 Polonius wrote:
Which means that the scalper actually performs an essential function: allowing the laws of supply and demand to balance out.
I'm not sure 'essential' is the right word.

If every scalper on the planet was to spontaneously combust then their sudden loss won't lead to some kind of crisis, it'd just mean that some people won't have to pay extra, some people won't have the option to pay extra, and the scalpers themselves won't be skimming the difference into their pockets.
   
 
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