Switch Theme:

Would you play with a known scalper?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Would you play with a known scalper?
Yes, I'd play games with them. Behavior outside the gaming room doesn't factor into it.
No, I would refuse. Scalpers should not feel welcome in the gaming community.
Other/Show results

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

His conduct as a gamer is really all I care about. Someone bragging about scalping might be more likely to be a jerk player, but if that wasn't the case, I'd play against him. I don't care at all whether or not he buys up product to sell back later at a higher price. I can't imagine he makes much money doing that...

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Are they a good opponent? Fun to play against? Then sure.

Now, if they sold something on false pretences (fraud etc) then maybe not.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Some of you people have downright bizarre stances/takes on the issue/lines n the sand....
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 pancakeonions wrote:
His conduct as a gamer is really all I care about. Someone bragging about scalping might be more likely to be a jerk player, but if that wasn't the case, I'd play against him. I don't care at all whether or not he buys up product to sell back later at a higher price. I can't imagine he makes much money doing that...
You would be surprised...

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






ccs wrote:
Some of you people have downright bizarre stances/takes on the issue/lines n the sand....


Whats your non-bizzare stance btw?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I have no problem ostracising people who engage in extreme behavior that is deleterious to a civil society, but scalping seems kinda... not quite rising to that bar?

As someone who is always on the wrong side of product shortages, it really begins and ends with the manufacturer, especially when the "shortage" is totally, wholly artificial. If you can't get a limited run mini for less than $100, maybe blame Games Workshop for artificially limiting the run so small. Otherwise. as someone else already mentioned, make sure you never give a game to anyone who ever bought a limited run mini for over MSRP, since they are equally to blame.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/23 20:10:12


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos





The Wastes of Krieg

Honestly I’d be more concerned with their attitude. If they act all high and mighty then no.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

But isn't that the same of, well, everybody? I don't see what being or not being a scalper would have to do with that.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Ketara wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Scalpers aren't going to sit on a box for six months, they want - need - to flip them quickly. That's what makes them the profit.


Not true. You ever seen goldfishblue on ebay? He combs the auctions and other places for limited edition and out of production warhammer. Grabs it low, buys it for an insane markup and sits on it until he gets it. We're talking fifty quid or the like for a Tallarn Heavy weapons team. Ridiculously over-priced. He's a scalper, by any reasonable definition.

I could sit around and fume until steam comes out my ears, because his habits stop me being able to pick up that kind of stuff at a lower price on ebay (he buys up what becomes available, after all, and bids on even what he doesn't win). But whilst I'll freely admit it irritates the hell out of me seeing stuff at that kind of price and knowing he's probably driving up prices all over the shop; I don't think he's a bad person for it. He's just a bloke trying to turn a buck and make a living.


If he wants to make a living there's this thing called "work".

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Now now, people who do phone scams claiming they're from the IRS are also just trying to make a living, don't be mean to them.
No, scalping isn't anywhere near as bad as scamming, but it's still a "sevice" no one needs that is harmful to the customers as a whole.
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Like hege fund managing

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Cronch wrote:
Now now, people who do phone scams claiming they're from the IRS are also just trying to make a living, don't be mean to them.
No, scalping isn't anywhere near as bad as scamming, but it's still a "sevice" no one needs that is harmful to the customers as a whole.


Would you play with a jaywalker?

What if I worked at a fast food place that served really unhealthy food, like McDonalds?

I'm still not sure we even really got a great definition of what a scalper even is. When Tariana Palos was announced for preorder, I ordered 2 ($35 each), kept one, and sold the other one on ebay for $75 when they finally released 6 months later. The prevailing cost was around $100. Am I a scalper? It's the only mini I've ever flipped in that fashion, do I deserve to never get a game again?

What about the person who bought the mini for $75?


What about the Games Workshop employees that decided they are only going to produce 500 minis when they know that many thousands of players worldwide would surely desire them, and buy them at MSRP? They already have the molds, they could turn out a few thousand more for 5 cents a shot, but they would prefer to create artificial scarcity... that they don't even profit from. Do they have clean hands?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 13:38:38


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





What about the person who bought the mini for $75?

This is a very interesting question. What about the abused party!? They surely are just as bad as the abuser. They both participated, after all. Surely they are both on the exact same moral standing. If you wouldn't play with a scalper, it would be hypocritical to play with a scalpee!
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Does the person who bought the mini for $75 have absolutely no agency? I never bought a plastic mini at gunpoint before.

The prevailing cost of the mini was $100, as I said. Do you think getting it for $25 less than the other auctions made them feel victimized?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 13:33:27


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





They have agency to
1) not buy the model
2) buy the model at 75$
3) buy the model at 100$.

Their choice to
4) buy the model at 35$

was taken away by somebody who shall not be named.
I'm sure paying 40$ more than MSRP probably made the buyer feel a little bit victimized, unless they were planning on selling it for 100$ anyways. Wow, it's kinda strange how when you frame it from your perspective, it seems like a positive thing, but any other perspective it isn't so positive!
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Would you like to be praised as a saint for having scalped less than the other scalpers? Or having only done it once?

I agree that scalping isn't a black and white issue, you're not instantly declared ex-communicae traitoris.

But at the same time, scalping isn't black and white. Falling short of the other scalpers doesn't mean I don't hate the practice of buying up multiple highly limited miniatures for the specific purpose of immediately flipping them at above RRP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 13:41:36


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Rihgu wrote:
They have agency to
1) not buy the model
2) buy the model at 75$
3) buy the model at 100$.

Their choice to
4) buy the model at 35$

was taken away by somebody who shall not be named.
I'm sure paying 40$ more than MSRP probably made the buyer feel a little bit victimized, unless they were planning on selling it for 100$ anyways. Wow, it's kinda strange how when you frame it from your perspective, it seems like a positive thing, but any other perspective it isn't so positive!


Is the someone who shall not be named:

1.) The buyer themselves who has the same opportunity I did to buy the mini at MSRP - it was for sale for a week, after all, and chose not to? Maybe they didn't want to wait 6 months for it to be delivered, or

2.) The billion dollar corporation who chose to only produce a small, limited run despite being able to easily meet customer need if they wanted to? or,

3.) Me

If it's only 3), why do the other 2 have clean hands and I do not?


Wow, it's kinda strange how when you frame it from your perspective, it seems like the billion dollar corporation - the only one in this equation with the ability to easily obviate the entire situation - has absolutely no role in it!



 kirotheavenger wrote:
Would you like to be praised as a saint for having scalped less than the other scalpers? Or having only done it once?



Don't invent something no one suggested. However, the flip side very much does exist: there are people in this thread clearly and unambiguously saying I should never get a game again for my sin. In fact, it's the entire premise of the thread.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 13:46:55


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





If it's only 3), why do the other 2 have clean hands and I do not?

What if... nobody has "clean" hands (whatever metric we want to use for that)? However, the person taking advantage of the facts of point 2 to fleece the person in point 1 generally seems like the dirtiest hands there.
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rihgu wrote:
What about the person who bought the mini for $75?

This is a very interesting question. What about the abused party!? They surely are just as bad as the abuser. They both participated, after all. Surely they are both on the exact same moral standing. If you wouldn't play with a scalper, it would be hypocritical to play with a scalpee!


Abused party lmao

Feels like you're really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:07:52


 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





 oni wrote:
I suppose there's a threshold.

If I buy two of something to effectively make my $$$ back by selling one... is that still worth being ostracized?


Sounds alot like covetousness. By the OP's logic we should refuse to play with someone who is an online retailer. Instead of refusing to play against the guy, how about befriend them and see if you can get a friend discount off of product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
They have agency to
1) not buy the model
2) buy the model at 75$
3) buy the model at 100$.

Their choice to
4) buy the model at 35$

was taken away by somebody who shall not be named.
I'm sure paying 40$ more than MSRP probably made the buyer feel a little bit victimized, unless they were planning on selling it for 100$ anyways. Wow, it's kinda strange how when you frame it from your perspective, it seems like a positive thing, but any other perspective it isn't so positive!


Is the someone who shall not be named:

1.) The buyer themselves who has the same opportunity I did to buy the mini at MSRP - it was for sale for a week, after all, and chose not to? Maybe they didn't want to wait 6 months for it to be delivered, or

2.) The billion dollar corporation who chose to only produce a small, limited run despite being able to easily meet customer need if they wanted to? or,

3.) Me

If it's only 3), why do the other 2 have clean hands and I do not?


Wow, it's kinda strange how when you frame it from your perspective, it seems like the billion dollar corporation - the only one in this equation with the ability to easily obviate the entire situation - has absolutely no role in it!



 kirotheavenger wrote:
Would you like to be praised as a saint for having scalped less than the other scalpers? Or having only done it once?



Don't invent something no one suggested. However, the flip side very much does exist: there are people in this thread clearly and unambiguously saying I should never get a game again for my sin. In fact, it's the entire premise of the thread.



This is a perspective shift I have noticed on a generational level. Gen X "Corporations can't be people", millenials "Corporations are the best people, especially if they are from Silicon Valley", Zoomers "Corporations are my mommy and daddy!"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:10:21


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I've never seen anyone praising GW's forced FOMO marketing, in fact I see it disparaged every time it crops up.

Similarly "I'm not the only guilty party" or "I'm not the worst one" is not a defence.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I don't need a defense because I didn't do anything wrong.

I wish I lived where you guys did, where apparently there are so many people lined up to play games with you, that you need to invent increasingly arbitrary and nebulous reasons to winnow that crowd down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:18:26


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





This is a perspective shift I have noticed on a generational level. Gen X "Corporations can't be people", millenials "Corporations are the best people, especially if they are from Silicon Valley", Zoomers "Corporations are my mommy and daddy!"

I have never, ever, once seen a millennial or zoomer express any opinion even close to either of those things, and if anything the Gen X sentiment has grown less favorable to corporations as generations move on.

If a corporation creates false scarcity to manipulate people with FOMO, that's just a corporation being a corporation, and that's the reality we have to live in. When an individual decides to add an extra layer to that, driving further false scarcity for personal gain... that's an individual making a choice.

Feels like you're really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person.

Why do you feel like that?
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Rihgu wrote:
If a corporation creates false scarcity to manipulate people with FOMO, that's just a corporation being a corporation, and that's the reality we have to live in. When an individual decides to add an extra layer to that, driving further false scarcity for personal gain... that's an individual making a choice.


Wow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:19:41


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rihgu wrote:


Feels like you're really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person.

Why do you feel like that?


Pretty disingenuous question, given that reading this thread shows the answer pretty readily. It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing. I'm surprised some of you can even read the thread from the top of that incredibly tall horse. I mean, you're going so far as to say Ouze abused someone for doing this once.

I don't plan to answer any other bad faith questions, so I may not be able to engage this thread further.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:37:42


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Jacksmiles wrote:
Rihgu wrote:


Feels like you're really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person.

Why do you feel like that?


Pretty disingenuous question, given that reading this thread shows the answer pretty readily. It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing. I'm surprised some of you can even read the thread from the top of that incredibly tall horse. I mean, you're going so far as to say Ouze abused someone for doing this once.


Why do you feel like I'm saying any of those things when I haven't? I haven't said anybody deserves Very Nasty Things or even that anybody is evil. Just that the abuser has less moral standing than the abusee. I was shocked that anybody would try to portray the person who bought from them as somehow on the same moral standing.
What exactly would you call charging somebody 40$ more than the evil multi-billion dollar corporation decided a product was worth, for the crime of not buying it during the slim window of availability? Which could be for any number of reasons (ignorance, not having available money to spend on it, wanting to sell it for 100$, and more). It's certainly taking advantage of them, to some extent. Unless, of course, they're buying it to re-sell at the higher price. I could call it something else, but I'm not certain of the correct word. It's an abuse of the scalper's ability to buy the product. Perhaps I should just refer to the "abusee" as a victim?
Does performing abuse once make it not abuse? If I spout verbal abuse at somebody, but only do it once, is it not actually verbal abuse? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Very curious about what words you're going to put into my mouth next, at least! Maybe you'll have me go into more details about the Very Nasty Things I apparently wish to happen to people?
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Jacksmiles wrote:
Rihgu wrote:


Feels like you're really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person.

Why do you feel like that?


Pretty disingenuous question, given that reading this thread shows the answer pretty readily. It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing. I'm surprised some of you can even read the thread from the top of that incredibly tall horse. I mean, you're going so far as to say Ouze abused someone for doing this once.

I don't plan to answer any other bad faith questions, so I may not be able to engage this thread further.


Obviously not. Obviously, there are degrees to any bad thing, however it is a fact of how humans work that the closer something is to us, the closer it is to affecting us, the more we are going to care about it.

If your friend takes something worth 10$ from a store without paying for it, the magnitude of what was taken is 10$. however, context matters

-did he accidentally take something from a grocery store, not notice, and then once in the parking lot express that he just didnt feel like going through the hassle of going back in and paying for it?

In this context, you've got a large corporation being affected that you don't personally have any stake in, and the thing that happened was at least initially unintentional.

-did he take something from a person you don't know, but purposefully, like taking a 10$ bill that was hanging out of someone's pocket, or watch someone drop a 10$ bill and he picked it up and didn't tell them about it?

In this context you've got an individual person, but a stranger, and the thing that happened was wholly intentional.

-did he take something from someone you do know, like walking out of your local game shop with 10$ of paint in his pocket and you know the local shop owner personally?

The value of the interaction is the same, but the proximity to the thing affecting you and your life personally adds moral value to the infraction in your eyes. This is hypocrisy, but it is essentially a near universal human condition. You will care more morally about an object of the same value stolen from a stranger and stolen from your grandma.

Everyone has a particular, personal line where they consider the actions of another person to be morally reprehensible enough to stop willingly interact with them, and it's clear from the thread that most people consider scalping to be, at least somewhat, a way of taking additional money from someone that they wouldn't ordinarily spend, in the same way that someone might consider any kind of transaction where you know you're being gouged due to the unavailability of the thing you're looking to buy a "Semi-Theft".

You know when you go to a convention center that they aren't *technically* stealing from you by charging 25$ for a hot dog, but you definitely know that it is, in some way, a bs transaction. Everyone's got a moral line where the price of a bottle of water at a convention center goes from "Ok, i get it, this is a way they have to cover the cost of the venue..." to "alright this is crap, you can't charge this." The question, as it is with almost every one of these conversations, is where the line is. Getting indignant and being like "OH, so if ONE TIME i buy two of a model and i sell that model for ONE DOLLAR more than MSRP I'm an evil person the same as hitler and I deserve to be hanged???" is just....obviously not, dude. Obviously there's a line, and you've obviously placed an example well behind that line as a hyperbolic argument.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Bravo Scotsman, well put
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 the_scotsman wrote:
The question, as it is with almost every one of these conversations, is where the line is. Getting indignant and being like "OH, so if ONE TIME i buy two of a model and i sell that model for ONE DOLLAR more than MSRP I'm an evil person the same as hitler and I deserve to be hanged???" is just....obviously not, dude. .


Don't make up an argument. No one is claiming I am hitler and deserve to be hanged. However, people are actually arguing that people who sell models for over MSRP deserve to never get a game again; in fact it is the premise of the thread.

I get we all have our own moral compass of course; for me clearly I am OK with charging above MSRP for a model, but my personal line at skullduggery ends at (hypothetically) claiming you need a liter and a half of resin to 3D print 10 orks. We all sin in our own ways, I guess

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




 kirotheavenger wrote:
Bravo Scotsman, well put


It was indeed well put, but I disagree with the equivalency of the example at the end. Buying a hot dog at a convention center (especially if you're not allowed outside food) is a very different situation than choosing to spend twice as much on a luxury item. People need to eat- that model isn't a requirement, but it certainly is cool.

And don't act like I'm the only one getting hyperbolic in here, I'm reacting to hyperbole as well.

@Rihgu

"the crime of not buying it during the slim window of availability"

"[comparing this to verbal abuse]"

"Maybe you'll have me go into more details about the Very Nasty Things I apparently wish to happen to people?" This type of question is always dumb. Imagine accusing someone of putting words in your mouth by putting words in their mouth. You say I put words in your mouth but ignore that I was very obviously referring in this part to another poster's comments about cats gaking in shoes or some such thing. My statement was "It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing." We want to get pedantic? I never said you were the one that said that.

"Perhaps I should just refer to the "abusee" as a victim?" Perhaps you shouldn't see these people as victims when they are not being coerced or forced into anything. Or even actually abused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:34:17


 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: