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Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
... but the units themselves are still incredibly points efficient.
Is that a bad thing?

Yes, units should be moderately efficient against a lot of things, inefficient against most things and seriously efficient against a tiny amount of things. Never bonkers efficient against a lot of things. They probably aren't better than SM melta and Drukhari lances now, but all of these things as well as Astra Militarum demolishers and Necron doomsday weaponry need nerfs if heavy tanks are to become popular again and then heavy tanks need some kind of buff to withstand medium-strength weaponry, 2+ Sv would go a long way toward making AP- and AP-1 weapons much less effective.

Jarms48 wrote:
Compare Ballistarii to Eldar War Walkers, or 2 Guard Sentinels.
You mean compare the unit form the new Codex to two units from old Codices?

Yes, you compare every non-Legends unit with every other non-Legends unit using the most recent rules for them. If GW cannot balance the game then they should outsource it and simply officialise the homebrew points set that is the most popular in the community. The biggest problem with fan balance patches would be a lack of reason to use one over another, but I think if GW just posted a link to the fan patch they liked the best they would stop needing to make points for the system themselves.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Daedalus81 wrote:


And how exactly would they come to that conclusion if everything is selling out constantly and they need 13 new machines?

By checking what stores are trying to order from them. If both GW and FLGS are rattling the gates crying , we need more raider boxs, then there probably is place for making and selling more of those, if at the same time the primaris rhinos are sold out, but few if any stores are asking for more, then probably there is no markter right now for the item. If after a specific codex drop, they can see that the drop in other factions sells are not temporary. And they have enough data after 4 decades to know how long specific books, with or without extra models keep up good sales. GW could easily notice that people are not happy. And they do check stuff like that, and know the difference between , we produced a limited number of box X and scalpers go them, and we produced indomitus as a limited thing, but people want it so bad we have to make it pay to order.


Nobody can actually realistically look at the basic rules of the Marine book and find things to complain about from a power perspective.

That kind of depends if you want or don't want to use marine transport and tank units, and this includes the primaris ones. Drop pods and rhinos are at least cheaper comparing to something crazy like an impulsor.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





War walkers and chickens are actually quite close.
Chickens have more offensive output, but warwalkers have scout move, battle focus, a 5++ and are "Old CORE". They don't compare so badly.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
...If they had actually spent some time to work on things?....


Would they have remembered they made like twenty AdMech Forge World kits and then forgot to do 8e or 9e rules for any of them?

At this point, blame the people who want HH separate from 40k on that one.

Anyways, they could have gotten a few extra units/options out of the Skitarii box alone.
Plasma Calivers causing such a big issue? Lock them to Vanguard, make them max of 2 per squad but give the Alpha an option to take one as well for that coveted tri-plas slot.
Rangers needing some extra "oomph"? Lock Arquebi to them, give them back a version of the "Armourbane" rule for shooting at MCs+vehicles--again, 2 per squad with the Alpha getting an option to take one.

etc etc etc
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

Spoletta wrote:
War walkers and chickens are actually quite close.
Chickens have more offensive output, but warwalkers have scout move, battle focus, a 5++ and are "Old CORE". They don't compare so badly.


They also have Ancient Doom for completeness sake

But that and Battle Focus don't matter much. Neither does "old core", nobody's taking Autarchs, the rerolls are all Expert Crafters. I like War Walkers a lot, I think they're a great tool and help Eldar out a lot in non-cutthroat metas. But I'd still rather have Balistarii.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Having access to your faction buffs is important. Doom and guide are always spicy, and Forewarned has been a very useful tool in the past (ballistari are now cut out from using the Forewarned stratagem).
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:


And how exactly would they come to that conclusion if everything is selling out constantly and they need 13 new machines?

By checking what stores are trying to order from them. If both GW and FLGS are rattling the gates crying , we need more raider boxs, then there probably is place for making and selling more of those, if at the same time the primaris rhinos are sold out, but few if any stores are asking for more, then probably there is no markter right now for the item. If after a specific codex drop, they can see that the drop in other factions sells are not temporary. And they have enough data after 4 decades to know how long specific books, with or without extra models keep up good sales. GW could easily notice that people are not happy. And they do check stuff like that, and know the difference between , we produced a limited number of box X and scalpers go them, and we produced indomitus as a limited thing, but people want it so bad we have to make it pay to order.


Yes, surely they can see demand. So you think that the demand for Skitarii suddenly dropped off and THEN they released an FAQ? Or did they release an FAQ to force the demand to drop? In what way does this benefit GW's sales to Skitarii players who are pot committed to the army? Are the models so nerfed that everyone will immediately replace them with Kataphrons - the only other Troop selection?

And then why would GW set a precedent that a unit might be good for only a month or two? Wouldn't it be better if they were slower to respond to give them more room to create sales?

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




No, no . See this is where my lack of english effects the conversation.

What I was thinking is something to kin the effect 2.0 marines had on 9th ed. Now I know people think that 9th marines were DE/Admecha tier of bad for the game etc But rules wise both in the books and in the errata that followed. GW went down hard after marines. If people think marines are bad now, they should go back the memory lane what rule set IH or RG or IF had, and what would happen if those armies got extra range on flamers, double shot on melta, blade guard etc. I think , that durning the 2.0 run, GW noticed that while the extra book buffed the sales of most, armies, after some time, it was only the marines that retained the sales, and worse non marines started to sell below expectations.

Again I am not saying that this situation is the same. But if GW put out any codex. Lets say the upcomming GK/1ksons duo this week.
And 3 monthers later, the sales for all other armies, and especially marines would drastically drop below expected sales numbers, and there was no Vesuvius blowing up, China/US war etc happening at the same time , I think they would come to the conclusion that maybe the GK/1ksons were over done. Specially if both armies did not expiriance the expected sales drops. And as much as I want GK to be as powerful as possible, I don't think GW would be willing to exchanged GK sales, even buffed up ones, for substential lowering of sales of all other sales, specially marines.

I think for the same reason we saw the version of 2.0 marines we got in the end. Marines were selling, as they always do, but they werent selling well enough or the primaris stuff wasn't reaching expected levels. And we got the crazy stuff for that.

I am sure in the past GW did the same thing. Not sure if the example is true, but weren't the under costed CWE knights nerfed to hell and back next edition? I am sure GW wanted people to play soups, they designed factions to work as soup, like the Inari for example. But the power of some of those set ups was limiting the sales of other armies. You are not selling a lot of BAs, if their armies consist of 15 scouts and 2 characters. So GW nerfed the way of playing , and now we get promoted for playing mono factions.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

Spoletta wrote:
Having access to your faction buffs is important. Doom and guide are always spicy, and Forewarned has been a very useful tool in the past (ballistari are now cut out from using the Forewarned stratagem).


Fair enough. I have no clue how the Eldar CORE restrictions will impact the layered buff structure of the army; that and Expert Crafters are the twin pillars keeping them able to achieve some small bit of success at least at the competitive level. But yeah, certainly important to the function of War Walkers.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
No, no . See this is where my lack of english effects the conversation.

What I was thinking is something to kin the effect 2.0 marines had on 9th ed. Now I know people think that 9th marines were DE/Admecha tier of bad for the game etc But rules wise both in the books and in the errata that followed. GW went down hard after marines. If people think marines are bad now, they should go back the memory lane what rule set IH or RG or IF had, and what would happen if those armies got extra range on flamers, double shot on melta, blade guard etc. I think , that durning the 2.0 run, GW noticed that while the extra book buffed the sales of most, armies, after some time, it was only the marines that retained the sales, and worse non marines started to sell below expectations.

Again I am not saying that this situation is the same. But if GW put out any codex. Lets say the upcomming GK/1ksons duo this week.
And 3 monthers later, the sales for all other armies, and especially marines would drastically drop below expected sales numbers, and there was no Vesuvius blowing up, China/US war etc happening at the same time , I think they would come to the conclusion that maybe the GK/1ksons were over done. Specially if both armies did not expiriance the expected sales drops. And as much as I want GK to be as powerful as possible, I don't think GW would be willing to exchanged GK sales, even buffed up ones, for substential lowering of sales of all other sales, specially marines.

I think for the same reason we saw the version of 2.0 marines we got in the end. Marines were selling, as they always do, but they werent selling well enough or the primaris stuff wasn't reaching expected levels. And we got the crazy stuff for that.

I am sure in the past GW did the same thing. Not sure if the example is true, but weren't the under costed CWE knights nerfed to hell and back next edition? I am sure GW wanted people to play soups, they designed factions to work as soup, like the Inari for example. But the power of some of those set ups was limiting the sales of other armies. You are not selling a lot of BAs, if their armies consist of 15 scouts and 2 characters. So GW nerfed the way of playing , and now we get promoted for playing mono factions.


I think people get the impression that people just switch armies on a whim, but in reality it is just a handful of top players that do that. And then when you realize what they get for prizes it is quite easy for them to step into other armies. We don't get to pretend this isn't an expensive hobby just to make a point more expedient and then turn around to complain about the cost of things.

If you looked at non-tournament results for Admech their win rate was a fair bit lower than expected and DE was still on top.

If GW makes TS strong it won't change my purchases even when nerfed. That's my army. I'm already buying the new box, because I want that new character and I look forward to W3 scarabs - I don't know the rules for either of those things. If the Tzaangors are useful again then I'll simply have more of them.

Soup. Soup makes it easier to cherry pick the very best units. You think someone wouldn't run Vanguard and DA termies / Morvenn Vahl / custodes dreads if they could do so? Eliminating easy soup is a direct hit to how easy it is to sell overpowered models. It was stupid simple to slide a Castellan in with loyal 32 and some small marine elements. You can see some legitimized soup coming back as showcased in the Charadon book, but it is buttressed with CP costs and other restrictions.

But these sales conspiracy theorists don't talk about all the extra restrictions, because it doesn't fit the narrative. It's also the very thing the community asked for.

   
Made in it
Focused Fire Warrior





Top players don't simply switch armies, they borrow and pass them around.
By pooling together large collections, they can be sure to build strong lists basically all the time.

The sales conspiracies hold only to a certain extent: there is a push to sell certain models but quite often the result is the opposite and older models end up on the broken side and sell out instantly.
But that's due to scarce or pointless playtesting.


 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





ccs wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Some adjustments require data. Knowing that 1CP for a wound a 4+ to hit roll wasn't ok does not require data.

Moreover, my point was that this is data that the playtesting should have provided GW. Even if GW lacks understanding of its own game to the degree to which they honestly thought a 1CP wound on a 4+ to hit strat was acceptable, this is what playtesting exists to tell them. That it made it to release shows the playtesting system is fundamentally broken.


The playtesting also might've been fine - for whatever they tested. We know that things have been changed/added after the playtest step on occasion. Or not provided to the testers to begin with. We also know that sometimes the info given by the testers is simply ignored.
So is it a problem with the testers?
A problem with some other step?

We're also assuming it's a problem....
It looks like a problem from our side of things. But, despite the PR speak of "unintended interactions, blah blah, blah" aimed at mollifying the customers a bit, is it really a problem from GWs pov? Since they keep doing it, I don't think so.



Yeah playtesters input is clearly limited to begin with. Points, board size. Those were two things GW didn't take any input from playtesters.

More and more it seems playtesters were more of proof readers. Find the typo's guys.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Of course it could happen again, but we are talking about a single instance were it was known in almost 40 years of releases.

"In doubt for the accused".

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Okey, but the ups we made something OP, then waited to generate sells happened , probably in every edition. The ravellan in 8th ed was exactly that, at some point the game started to turn in to either you run a castellan of your own, had some very specific counter army not accesible to most faction or you had a bad time. And people knew that it was a bad thing for the game day one. Yet it stayed good practically till 2.0 marines came out. GW has too many of those odd occurances, even with DEs, the testers played with a weaker version of the weapons. They told the GW that the army was strong. Yet for some reason GW prime, decided to change stuff to make even better. If play testers told them the army is strong, why would they do that?

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I think that sort of thing was rife in 6th/7th edition, particularly around the big things like Riptides and knights.

However, I do think GW learnt from how utterly those two editions flopped. I don't think they are interested in repeating that sort of thing again.
What's left is simply ambivalence or incompetence with regards to balance. Bottom line is GW doesn't need good rules, they need passable rules that look as cool as possible on the surface.
There's plenty of new models who's mediocre rules leave them dead on arrival (evidence that most of the playerbase is driven by the tabletop, not models).
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


It's also a fact that we have more new models that are extremely bad on release than we have models which are overpowered. Empirical evidence clearly proves the conspiracy theory of GW making new models OP wrong.
The only thing we know for sure is that GW is really bad at evaluating how good new units are going to be

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a fact that we have more new models that are extremely bad on release than we have models which are overpowered. Empirical evidence clearly proves the conspiracy theory of GW making new models OP wrong.
All that proves is that they're bad at it, which isn't surprising given the rest of their rules, not that they don't try to do it.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


That is like saying that someone only from time to time robs stores for real, because at other times they are just drunk. If the result is the same, and the reaction to it are generally too. Then it only makes it worse. It means that the DT is both incompetent and willing to change the game for the worse, if who ever is responsible for selling the models tells them to do so.

Plus half the time we don't even know how to treat stuff. When the incubi and drazh box came out it was horrible. Bad units and neither of the new units were worth taking. Now they are very good or auto include. You are not going to tell me that GW didn't change the rules to be better to sell more of them.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





There is admech stuff that was overdone, the chickenwalker nerf is just going to make it so they won't have killed all the vehicles and monsters in the opponents list by the end of turn 1 or 2, it will be the end of turn 2 or 3.

All the admech stuff is still really good for its points cost.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Karol wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


That is like saying that someone only from time to time robs stores for real, because at other times they are just drunk. If the result is the same, and the reaction to it are generally too. Then it only makes it worse. It means that the DT is both incompetent and willing to change the game for the worse, if who ever is responsible for selling the models tells them to do so.

Plus half the time we don't even know how to treat stuff. When the incubi and drazh box came out it was horrible. Bad units and neither of the new units were worth taking. Now they are very good or auto include. You are not going to tell me that GW didn't change the rules to be better to sell more of them.

Your hypothesis has little explaining power. If you hypothesize there is a teacup in orbit around Mars it'd be almost impossible to disprove or prove, but if you hypothesize that planets and stars have gravity you can make calculations that let you predict that there should be a planet somewhere and then you can send a space probe and you will probably find the planet there. The hypothesis that GW is bad at writing rules works with pretty much every release, there is always something that is completely stupid from a balance or common sense perspective and models with good rules do not predictively become better or worse and models with bad rules do not predictively become better or worse, all this points to incompetence, rather than a profit motive. Your hypothesis is right some of the time, but a broken clock is right twice a day and that's really all you are noticing.

I think it's better that GW is incompetent rather than evil, it might be possible to influence an evil corporation by punishing bad behaviour with lack of consumption and rewarding good behaviour with consumption, but making them more competent is really just a question of hiring 3-5 new people in the right department or the right people taking a couple of courses on balance and game design.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 04:00:16


 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 vict0988 wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


That is like saying that someone only from time to time robs stores for real, because at other times they are just drunk. If the result is the same, and the reaction to it are generally too. Then it only makes it worse. It means that the DT is both incompetent and willing to change the game for the worse, if who ever is responsible for selling the models tells them to do so.

Plus half the time we don't even know how to treat stuff. When the incubi and drazh box came out it was horrible. Bad units and neither of the new units were worth taking. Now they are very good or auto include. You are not going to tell me that GW didn't change the rules to be better to sell more of them.

Your hypothesis has little explaining power. If you hypothesize there is a teacup in orbit around Mars it'd be almost impossible to disprove or prove, but if you hypothesize that planets and stars have gravity you can make calculations that let you predict that there should be a planet somewhere and then you can send a space probe and you will probably find the planet there. The hypothesis that GW is bad at writing rules works with pretty much every release, there is always something that is completely stupid from a balance or common sense perspective and models with good rules do not predictively become better or worse and models with bad rules do not predictively become better or worse, all this points to incompetence, rather than a profit motive. Your hypothesis is right some of the time, but a broken clock is right twice a day and that's really all you are noticing.

I think it's better that GW is incompetent rather than evil, it might be possible to influence an evil corporation by punishing bad behaviour with lack of consumption and rewarding good behaviour with consumption, but making them more competent is really just a question of hiring 3-5 new people in the right department or the right people taking a couple of courses on balance and game design.
GW is an evil corporation because they don't care about competent rule writing. At least on higher levels.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Lammia wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


That is like saying that someone only from time to time robs stores for real, because at other times they are just drunk. If the result is the same, and the reaction to it are generally too. Then it only makes it worse. It means that the DT is both incompetent and willing to change the game for the worse, if who ever is responsible for selling the models tells them to do so.

Plus half the time we don't even know how to treat stuff. When the incubi and drazh box came out it was horrible. Bad units and neither of the new units were worth taking. Now they are very good or auto include. You are not going to tell me that GW didn't change the rules to be better to sell more of them.

Your hypothesis has little explaining power. If you hypothesize there is a teacup in orbit around Mars it'd be almost impossible to disprove or prove, but if you hypothesize that planets and stars have gravity you can make calculations that let you predict that there should be a planet somewhere and then you can send a space probe and you will probably find the planet there. The hypothesis that GW is bad at writing rules works with pretty much every release, there is always something that is completely stupid from a balance or common sense perspective and models with good rules do not predictively become better or worse and models with bad rules do not predictively become better or worse, all this points to incompetence, rather than a profit motive. Your hypothesis is right some of the time, but a broken clock is right twice a day and that's really all you are noticing.

I think it's better that GW is incompetent rather than evil, it might be possible to influence an evil corporation by punishing bad behaviour with lack of consumption and rewarding good behaviour with consumption, but making them more competent is really just a question of hiring 3-5 new people in the right department or the right people taking a couple of courses on balance and game design.
GW is an evil corporation because they don't care about competent rule writing. At least on higher levels.



... they're EVIL because they don't produce rules to your liking? yeah no dude.

GENOCIDE is evil.
using slave labor to produce goods is evil (and something lots of companies effectively do)
Having a corperate culture that tactly permits rape of female employees is evil.

Producing substandard rules is hardly evil.

and if you think GW's an evil company then you need to read a fething book, or just watch some god damned international news because you SERIOUSLY need some prespective.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
GENOCIDE is evil.
using slave labor to produce goods is evil (and something lots of companies effectively do)
Having a corperate culture that tactly permits rape of female employees is evil.
Relative privation.

And context.

Add one, remove the other, and we get posts like the one above.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
Lammia wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Karol wrote:
There was an interview with one of the people who worked at the studio, and he told a story about the eldar knights, which tester checked, found to be powerful, and then were told to give the unit 200pts lower point costs.

If it happened once or twice, why couldn't it happen again?
We know it doesn't happen regularly because they still regularly release new models with terrible rules that no one wants.


That is like saying that someone only from time to time robs stores for real, because at other times they are just drunk. If the result is the same, and the reaction to it are generally too. Then it only makes it worse. It means that the DT is both incompetent and willing to change the game for the worse, if who ever is responsible for selling the models tells them to do so.

Plus half the time we don't even know how to treat stuff. When the incubi and drazh box came out it was horrible. Bad units and neither of the new units were worth taking. Now they are very good or auto include. You are not going to tell me that GW didn't change the rules to be better to sell more of them.

Your hypothesis has little explaining power. If you hypothesize there is a teacup in orbit around Mars it'd be almost impossible to disprove or prove, but if you hypothesize that planets and stars have gravity you can make calculations that let you predict that there should be a planet somewhere and then you can send a space probe and you will probably find the planet there. The hypothesis that GW is bad at writing rules works with pretty much every release, there is always something that is completely stupid from a balance or common sense perspective and models with good rules do not predictively become better or worse and models with bad rules do not predictively become better or worse, all this points to incompetence, rather than a profit motive. Your hypothesis is right some of the time, but a broken clock is right twice a day and that's really all you are noticing.

I think it's better that GW is incompetent rather than evil, it might be possible to influence an evil corporation by punishing bad behaviour with lack of consumption and rewarding good behaviour with consumption, but making them more competent is really just a question of hiring 3-5 new people in the right department or the right people taking a couple of courses on balance and game design.
GW is an evil corporation because they don't care about competent rule writing. At least on higher levels.



... they're EVIL because they don't produce rules to your liking? yeah no dude.

GENOCIDE is evil.
using slave labor to produce goods is evil (and something lots of companies effectively do)
Having a corperate culture that tactly permits rape of female employees is evil.

Producing substandard rules is hardly evil.

and if you think GW's an evil company then you need to read a fething book, or just watch some god damned international news because you SERIOUSLY need some prespective.
Ok, clearly my choice of words weren't the best.

My point, is the rules don't have to be good. GW management hasn't spent money on good rules, only on enough rules to sell a product.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 05:48:16


   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a fact that we have more new models that are extremely bad on release than we have models which are overpowered. Empirical evidence clearly proves the conspiracy theory of GW making new models OP wrong.
All that proves is that they're bad at it, which isn't surprising given the rest of their rules, not that they don't try to do it.
Yeah, sure. Writing OP rules is so hard that GW failing to do so shows incompetence rather than their not trying to do so
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 alextroy wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a fact that we have more new models that are extremely bad on release than we have models which are overpowered. Empirical evidence clearly proves the conspiracy theory of GW making new models OP wrong.
All that proves is that they're bad at it, which isn't surprising given the rest of their rules, not that they don't try to do it.
Yeah, sure. Writing OP rules is so hard that GW failing to do so shows incompetence rather than their not trying to do so


I am impressed by how GW is similtaniously evil criminal masterminds and hopelessly incompetant... it's like schrodingers Corperation


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 alextroy wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a fact that we have more new models that are extremely bad on release than we have models which are overpowered. Empirical evidence clearly proves the conspiracy theory of GW making new models OP wrong.
All that proves is that they're bad at it, which isn't surprising given the rest of their rules, not that they don't try to do it.
Yeah, sure. Writing OP rules is so hard that GW failing to do so shows incompetence rather than their not trying to do so
Hanlon's Razor reigns supreme.

BrianDavion wrote:
I am impressed by how GW is similtaniously evil criminal masterminds and hopelessly incompetant... it's like schrodingers Corperation
That's... not a good analogy. In any case, there's a line from an old Zero Punctuation review of Resident Evil 5 that I love referencing in discussions such as this, because if you just change the name of the company it fits so perfectly:

"[GW] aren't bad people, they're just idiots!"



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 05:43:58


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I am impressed by how GW is similtaniously evil criminal masterminds and hopelessly incompetant... it's like schrodingers Corperation
That's... not a good analogy. In any case, there's a line from an old Zero Punctuation review of Resident Evil 5 that I love referencing in discussions such as this, because if you just change the name of the company it fits so perfectly:

"[GW] aren't bad people, they're just idiots!"





I would totally sign that. Anyways, this is just Yhazee's more awesome way to describe hanlon's razor.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 12:05:48


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